4 week drive tour of England and Wales

[4774Papa]

Dear Wife and I are planning a four week drive tour of England and Wales. We are both interested in family history and will visit some places were our ancestors came from centuries ago. We are doing Scotland and Ireland on a separate trip. Our trip will include the following cities and places: Bath, Wells, Glastonbury, Cardiff, Pembroke and a couple of small South Wales towns, Cotwolds (thinking of staying in Moreton on Marsh), Stratford on Avon, Warwick, Nottingham, York and Whitby, Durham, Hadrian's Wall, Lake District, Winchester, ending in Southampton, catching a transatlantic back to the USA. Questions:

 

1) Is Bristol worth a stop (if so what is there to see in the city), since we will be going from Bath to Cardiff;

2) We are planning 3-4 days in the Cotswolds, perhaps at Moreton on Marsh, visiting the many sites in the Cotswolds as well as Oxford, Blenheim and more. Is parking a problem in Oxford? If so, should we take the train from Moreton or drive to Oxford and park? Also, can we see Oxford and Blenheim in one day?

3) Should we add two more days in Moreton on Marsh and drive into Stratford, or stay in the city?

4) We want to see Warwick Castle, if we leave in the morning from Stratford or Moreton can we see the castle and then drive on to Nottingham, or should we stay a night in Warwick?

5) How many days should we stay in Nottingham?

6) Moving on to York, we want to stay there about three days, is that sufficient if we want to visit Whitby?

7) I love Roman history and would like to see Hadrian's Wall, but I read that there is not much left of the wall. Is it worth the trip. If should we visit Durham?

8) Looking for ideas on visiting the Lake District in NW England. Where is a good city to stay and how many days should we stay there?

9) After departing the north of England, we will move back toward Southampton, planning on visiting Winchester, then Arundel Castle (ancestors from those places). Should we stay two nights in Winchester, and then our final night in Southampton for our cruise or is Winchester close enough for us to drive to Southampton, return our rental car in time to board our ship mid-day?

[Cotswold Eagle]

We addressed your questions about the Cotswolds, Stratford, Blenheim/Oxford on this thread a couple of months ago:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310234

 

But to reiterate:

 

- I wouldn't stay in Moreton if you have your own car

- Blenheim and Oxford from this area is easy with a car, but use the Park and Ride at Oxford. If just Oxford for the day, take the train

- Stratford and Warwick are easy from this area, no need to move hotels

 

Warwick to Nottingham is a quick journey on motorways, so you can drive after visiting the castle.

 

More generally you seem set on staying in "cities" - the beauty of having a car is getting to the small towns and villages that define England. I suggested this in the Cotswolds, I'd reiterate it regarding Nottingham (impossible to say how many days to stay without knowing why you are going, by the way!) and definitely for the Lakes, where there are no cities :)

Edited April 24, 2016 by Cotswold Eagle

[fabnfortysomething]

OK advice for Durham/Hadrians wall

 

When I was a child you used to be able to walk along the wall-no longer due to erosion by all the tourists feet!

 

personally it is a long drive out of civilisation and last few times went there with visiting friends it was raining so not seen at best

 

Durham however is a compact city with Cathedral and Castle

With a car you can explore the surrounding countryside

 

For something different head to Beamish museum near Chester le Street-it is a large open air museum where buildings/vehicles from over a hundred years ago have been restored/rebuilt .You can walk through them and get an idea of what life in the area was like for ordinary locals

 

Bishop Auckland 10 miles from Durham has a small Roman settlement called Binchester which is under excavation if you want a fix of Roman history

.From from there access to a picturesque drive through Weardale and the North Pennines. You could take that single carriageway route over to the Northern area of Lake District of Penrith

 

OK that's my tourist information plug for my local area:D

[4774Papa]

We addressed your questions about the Cotswolds, Stratford, Blenheim/Oxford on this thread a couple of months ago:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310234

 

But to reiterate:

 

- I wouldn't stay in Moreton if you have your own car

- Blenheim and Oxford from this area is easy with a car, but use the Park and Ride at Oxford. If just Oxford for the day, take the train

- Stratford and Warwick are easy from this area, no need to move hotels

 

Warwick to Nottingham is a quick journey on motorways, so you can drive after visiting the castle.

 

More generally you seem set on staying in "cities" - the beauty of having a car is getting to the small towns and villages that define England. I suggested this in the Cotswolds, I'd reiterate it regarding Nottingham (impossible to say how many days to stay without knowing why you are going, by the way!) and definitely for the Lakes, where there are no cities :)

 

Eagle,

Thanks again. I am still researching for our trip and still undecided about several things. I read elsewhere that parking in Oxford can be a problem. One poster advised he had to park on the outskirts of the city and toke a bus into city center. If that is the case, we would just take the train for a day in Oxford and do Blenheim on another day.

 

If we plan to use the train, staying in Moreton is appealing. Also, B&Bs are cheaper there than Chipping Campden. A cc friend that we know stayed in Warwick House B&B and recommended it to us. Also, Warwick House will do our laundry for us. I suppose if we stay in Chipping Campden, we could drive to Moreton and catch the train if we decided to take it to Oxford.

 

In any event, I think we will stay in either Moreton or Chipping Campden and extend or stay rather than stay in Stratford on Avon.

 

From what I read in the guidebooks about Nottingham, I think we will likely stay one night there on our way to York.

 

Also, thanks fourtysomething for the advice regarding Durham and the Wall.

[Darcy15]

Well, I live in Bristol so I'd say it was worth a visit :D

 

http://visitbristol.co.uk

Edited April 24, 2016 by Darcy15

[Cotswold Eagle]

Well, there's probably a reason why things are cheaper in Moreton than Campden.... :)

 

I have never heard of the Warwick House B&B, but good that you got a recommendation. There is a laundrette in the centre of Moreton, if that is a key factor for you.

 

Yes, if you drive to Oxford, use the Park and Ride service (large car parks served by frequent bus services to the city centre). Coming from this area, the obvious one is Peartree, at the junction of the A34 and A44 (the road from Moreton). But train works just as well if you are not calling anywhere else on the way - there is a car park at Moreton station.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Cotswold Eagle

[TMLAalum]

We spent a week in Thirsk, Yorkshire last May followed by a week in the Lakes District.

A few comments on places you are interested in visiting.

 

Whitby- We took the steam railway from Pickering to Whitby. While scenic it does parallel a roadway so you could decide whether to drive or train. For us it was a nice respite from driving.

 

Durham- We spent part of a day in this city. Enroute we stopped at The Three Horseshoes restaurant which I highly recommend. But IMHO Durham is one place you could skip.

 

York- We had a tour of York Minster led by a docent. We didn't pre-book, just happened upon it. We only spent a day here, but could easily have spent another.

 

Hadrian's Wall- We visited many parts of the Wall enroute to Penrith from Thirsk. Chester's Roman Fort, and Housesteads are near to each other on the eastern section of the Wall. Perhaps you could consider spending a night in Hexham?

 

Other Sights- Castle Howard, over 300 years old, is beautifully appointed and also has lovely gardens- it's northeast of York in Malton (http://www.castlehoward.uk). Fountains Abbey, which is the ruin of an old monastery set in acres of manicured, less formal gardens is west of Ripon (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/fountains-abbey-and-studley-royal-water-garden).

Edited April 24, 2016 by TMLAalum

[aquilegia]

Bristol is certainly worth a visit. There's the Clifton Suspension Bridge, Brunel's steamship SS Great Britain, various museums including M shed on the harbourside (very modern and is free) historic buildings, S Nicholas Market, ferry trips on the Floating Harbour...

[dsrdsrdsr]

More generally you seem set on staying in "cities" - the beauty of having a car is getting to the small towns and villages that define England. I suggested this in the Cotswolds, I'd reiterate it regarding Nottingham (impossible to say how many days to stay without knowing why you are going, by the way!) and definitely for the Lakes, where there are no cities :)

 

Little language difficulty, I think. American English uses "city" where English English uses "town". Or even "village".

 

As for Hadrians Wall, there's a nice bit intact at Housesteads, and another at Vindolanda. If you're going from Durham to the Lake District, then head north from Durham to find ther B6318, which as you drive along it you will realise is a Roman road because it's so straight. Pick a few interesting looking signs and stop off for the odd hour wherever takes your fancy. When you get to Greenhead, leave the B5318 and head for Carlisle and the M6 motorway, and head south to the Lakes. It's not that much longer than going direct Durham to the Lakes, especially considering that the cross-country roads up there are very up-and-down and wiggly. The trip can be done in a day.

[Cotswold Eagle]

Little language difficulty, I think. American English uses "city" where English English uses "town". Or even "village".

 

The OP also used the word 'town', which suggested to me they know the variance in useage, as do I :)

 

OP - I was in Moreton today and went looking for Warwick House. I found the building, but could see no sign it is a B&B. It is not on some local accommodation listings. Are you sure it is still in business?

[bobalink]

Hi 4774Papa,

 

Lucky you! Your trip sounds amazing.

 

My husband and I did a road trip in Scotland and England. It was so fun and I am so glad we took the time to see parts of the country that you can't see from a cruise ship.

 

I don't know if this is helpful for you, but I thought I would give you the information for the B&B's that we stayed.

 

Crayke (Near York)

The Durham Ox was great. Really nice cottage, excellent restaurant and lovely staff. We would definitely stay here again. Here is a link to their website: http://www.thedurhamox.com

 

Buford (The Cotswalds)

The Lambs Inn was great, too. Wonderful staff, very good restaurant, the garden was so pretty and such a nice place to enjoy a drink.

We would stay here again, as well. Here is a link to their website: https://www.cotswold-inns-hotels.co.uk/the-lamb-inn/

 

Touring the quaint towns in the Cotswolds was very enjoyable.

 

We picked up our rental car in Edinburgh. Driving on the left side was very challenging!

 

My one piece of advice (I learned the hard way.)

Get a small rental car and get the best auto insurance that includes tire damage.

 

The short version: I rented a beautiful Mercedes sedan, had a blow-out after I hit the median divider curb (still adjusting to driving on the left side :o) and had to have the tire replaced. Tow truck, tire replacement, lost time, etc. Very expensive lesson!

 

Enjoy your visit.

[4774Papa]

The OP also used the word 'town', which suggested to me they know the variance in useage, as do I :)

 

OP - I was in Moreton today and went looking for Warwick House. I found the building, but could see no sign it is a B&B. It is not on some local accommodation listings. Are you sure it is still in business?

 

I am not sure Warwick House is still in business. A cruise critic friend stayed there last year, but I don't know if it is still in operation.

 

Based on your comments and others, as well as what I read about the Cotswolds, I believe that we will try to find a nice B&B in Chipping Campden. Do you have a suggestion for a B&B or small hotel there?

[4774Papa]

Hi 4774Papa,

 

Lucky you! Your trip sounds amazing.

 

My husband and I did a road trip in Scotland and England. It was so fun and I am so glad we took the time to see parts of the country that you can't see from a cruise ship.

 

I don't know if this is helpful for you, but I thought I would give you the information for the B&B's that we stayed.

 

Crayke (Near York)

The Durham Ox was great. Really nice cottage, excellent restaurant and lovely staff. We would definitely stay here again. Here is a link to their website: http://www.thedurhamox.com

 

Buford (The Cotswalds)

The Lambs Inn was great, too. Wonderful staff, very good restaurant, the garden was so pretty and such a nice place to enjoy a drink.

We would stay here again, as well. Here is a link to their website: https://www.cotswold-inns-hotels.co.uk/the-lamb-inn/

 

Touring the quaint towns in the Cotswolds was very enjoyable.

 

We picked up our rental car in Edinburgh. Driving on the left side was very challenging!

 

My one piece of advice (I learned the hard way.)

Get a small rental car and get the best auto insurance that includes tire damage.

 

The short version: I rented a beautiful Mercedes sedan, had a blow-out after I hit the median divider curb (still adjusting to driving on the left side :o) and had to have the tire replaced. Tow truck, tire replacement, lost time, etc. Very expensive lesson!

 

Enjoy your visit.

bobolink,

Thanks for the information. I have driven in England before, for three days in 2013 and managed pretty well, with dear Wife reminding me "stay on the left."

 

I usually decline the very expensive auto rental insurance and use American Express, which has good coverage. I plan on renting an automatic, but not a large vehicle. I don't want a real small car, probably will go with a compact. It is going to cost $1000 or a bit more for four weeks rental.

 

I was warned by others on cc to not plan on traveling long distances between stops, so that is what I have done. The only long day of driving will be after we finish in the Lake District, driving all the way to Winchester in one day.

 

In 2013, I made the mistake of trying to use the M25 on Friday afternoon, I will not try that again. We are not going to London at all.

[helpthejuggler]

Moreton is a nice place. We live around 1 hour south and had a weekend stay up near Stratford for my birthday.

 

If you plan on access to Moreton in Marsh, Stowe on the Wold, Stratford up on Avon and Warwick the same hotel would be a great base.

 

Take a look at Ettington Park Hotel at Alderminster particularly as you will have a car.

Edited April 24, 2016 by helpthejuggler

[tring]

Considering you are spending a whole four weeks in what you describe as "England and Wales", your only visit to Wales appears to be a day trip to Cardiff. Cardiff is not a particuarly bad place, but I would not consider that a visit to Wales as you are completely missing the beauty of Snowdonia and the rest of Wales, which is much more attractive than the Lake district IMO. If you are looking at one welsh city, you could go to Swansea and then visit The Gower Peninsular which is definitely worth a stop, from a scenic point of view.

 

I do not know how you timings are working out, but it seems a shame that you are completely bypassing a great amount of England and Wales by travelling from the Lake District to Winchester. Again you are visiting York, yet completely bypassing Chester which is also a Roman City with features not seen in York (the rows etc.). You could arrange a visit to Chester and perhaps also Liverpool, which has a great deal of tourist interest now and also take a side step to see Snowdonia on at least a one night stay.

 

I would also do an overnight in Stratford rather than spending a prolonged time on the Cotswolds and York. Stratford is a lovely town with some very good museums if you have an interest in Shakespeare, or just that era of history. It also has a very pleasant area around the river. The main hotels are expensive in Stratford, but there is a Premier Inn and Travelodge which are well placed to walk into the centre or hop on a bus and you can get very good prices if booked a while ahead, (ask for rooms away from the main road if you like a quiet situation - the road is not that busy but we live in a very quiet situation so we always ask for quiet if possible).

 

From an American standpoint, I can see why you are considering using less bases and travelling from them for day trips. However, I am wondering what you know about our roads. The speed limits are not that low over here, but road travel is not quick or pleasant as we are a much more populated island than the US, so traffic can build up easily. Our motorways are rarely free moving and the other roads are well interspersed with towns, villages, traffic lights and round abouts. There is a well used web map here called 'Bing', but in our experience the times it gives for travel are only possible overnight or perhaps on Sundays or holidays, as traffic will not allow that sort of speed most of the time. More overnight stops could mean a much more relaxing holiday, which is important if it is to last four weeks.

 

The park and rides in Oxford, (and other places in the UK), work well and the bus transfers will drop you off in the centre of the city. Again, I suspect you are not aware how long you can take driving into a city centre, driving around to find a parking spot, then walking back into the area you want to be.

 

You do not say what time of year you are hoping to visit as that can be very important for the more scenic locations. If you are visiting between late March and the end of October there may be some National Trust properties that you would find interesting. Most are old country mansions and estates, but some quirky places as well, often in town or city centres. You can Google, "National Trust" and may find a couple of places near to where you are hoping to stay or that can be a very good stopping place on a longer journey as the have good picnic sites and extremely nice tea rooms that our North American (mainly Canadian) relatives really like. A stop at a National Trust property for a break is far better than our motorway service stations!

 

Whatever you do, I hope you have a good holiday,

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

Edited April 24, 2016 by tring

[tring]

Sorry I have just re read your original post and see you are intending to see more of South Wales. I had focused on the numbered sections of your post, so missed that.

 

Knowing Wales very well, I would say that North Wales and Snowdonia is more worthy of travel than South Wales apart from The Gower Peninsular.

Edited April 24, 2016 by tring

[Bob++]

For accommodation in Chipping Campden, The Eight Bells is the obvious place to stay: http://www.eightbellsinn.co.uk/ I lived for a while as a teenager in what is now Robert Welch on the corner of Sheep st and High St. It was an antique shop then, with a cafe next door.

 

Nice to see someone recommend The Lamb Inn in Burford up thread. My mother worked there for many years back last century. She was in her 80s then and did the early morning teas. I doubt if there is a level floor or a straight wall in the whole building.

[4774Papa]

Considering you are spending a whole four weeks in what you describe as "England and Wales", your only visit to Wales appears to be a day trip to Cardiff. Cardiff is not a particuarly bad place, but I would not consider that a visit to Wales as you are completely missing the beauty of Snowdonia and the rest of Wales, which is much more attractive than the Lake district IMO. If you are looking at one welsh city, you could go to Swansea and then visit The Gower Peninsular which is definitely worth a stop, from a scenic point of view.

 

I do not know how you timings are working out, but it seems a shame that you are completely bypassing a great amount of England and Wales by travelling from the Lake District to Winchester. Again you are visiting York, yet completely bypassing Chester which is also a Roman City with features not seen in York (the rows etc.). You could arrange a visit to Chester and perhaps also Liverpool, which has a great deal of tourist interest now and also take a side step to see Snowdonia on at least a one night stay.

 

I would also do an overnight in Stratford rather than spending a prolonged time on the Cotswolds and York. Stratford is a lovely town with some very good museums if you have an interest in Shakespeare, or just that era of history. It also has a very pleasant area around the river. The main hotels are expensive in Stratford, but there is a Premier Inn and Travelodge which are well placed to walk into the centre or hop on a bus and you can get very good prices if booked a while ahead, (ask for rooms away from the main road if you like a quiet situation - the road is not that busy but we live in a very quiet situation so we always ask for quiet if possible).

 

From an American standpoint, I can see why you are considering using less bases and travelling from them for day trips. However, I am wondering what you know about our roads. The speed limits are not that low over here, but road travel is not quick or pleasant as we are a much more populated island than the US, so traffic can build up easily. Our motorways are rarely free moving and the other roads are well interspersed with towns, villages, traffic lights and round abouts. There is a well used web map here called 'Bing', but in our experience the times it gives for travel are only possible overnight or perhaps on Sundays or holidays, as traffic will not allow that sort of speed most of the time. More overnight stops could mean a much more relaxing holiday, which is important if it is to last four weeks.

 

The park and rides in Oxford, (and other places in the UK), work well and the bus transfers will drop you off in the centre of the city. Again, I suspect you are not aware how long you can take driving into a city centre, driving around to find a parking spot, then walking back into the area you want to be.

 

You do not say what time of year you are hoping to visit as that can be very important for the more scenic locations. If you are visiting between late March and the end of October there may be some National Trust properties that you would find interesting. Most are old country mansions and estates, but some quirky places as well, often in town or city centres. You can Google, "National Trust" and may find a couple of places near to where you are hoping to stay or that can be a very good stopping place on a longer journey as the have good picnic sites and extremely nice tea rooms that our North American (mainly Canadian) relatives really like. A stop at a National Trust property for a break is far better than our motorway service stations!

 

Whatever you do, I hope you have a good holiday,

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

 

Barbara,

Thanks for your great response. Yes, we are going to Pembroke and Llanddewi Brefi, in Cardiganshire. My ancestors came from Llanddewi Brefi in 1716.

 

Also, we have been to Liverpool and North Wales. Further, our trip is focused on some places where my ancestors came from in England and Wales. I have ancestors from Nottingham, York, the Lake District, Wales and places around SE England where we are not visiting.

 

 

We are going to be in the UK in October 2017 and will catch a transatlantic cruise back to the USA from Southampton.

 

Again, I appreciate your good response.

[tring]

Barbara,

Thanks for your great response. Yes, we are going to Pembroke and Llanddewi Brefi, in Cardiganshire. My ancestors came from Llanddewi Brefi in 1716.

 

Also, we have been to Liverpool and North Wales. Further, our trip is focused on some places where my ancestors came from in England and Wales. I have ancestors from Nottingham, York, the Lake District, Wales and places around SE England where we are not visiting.

 

 

We are going to be in the UK in October 2017 and will catch a transatlantic cruise back to the USA from Southampton.

 

Again, I appreciate your good response.

 

To address your original questions:-

 

Now I understand your wish to visit Nottingham. I have only been there once when my husband was staying a couple of nights for a work reason. I spent one day walking round the town centre and did not think it was anything special and could not find much to do, though it was a change for me as I had the chance to stroll round somewhere different. We stopped at the Nottingham Forest visitor area on the way home, which was largely a children's venue from what I remember. The forest was not particularly scenic as the terrain is flat. You, or others, may know different but it would not appeal to me for a longer stay.

 

The only large town/city base for the Lake District is Kendal, which calls itself, "The Gateway to the Lakes", as it is a bit further south than the Lakes itself. It is a pleasant place to spend some time though and would be much better based to travel south afterwards. The nearest parts of the Lakes from there is the more touristy bits like Windermere, but you could easily travel further for a day if you wish. For a more rural, scenic area Keswick is much less spoilt, but it will be off season in October and weather may not be that good (a risk anytime in Britain of course). The coastal area to the west of the Lakes can be very bleak and not scenic, with not much around - especially at that time of year. The last week of October, or first week of November, will be the half term school holidays, so the Lakes can be busier then. Length of stay in the Lakes is weather dependent so use your crystal ball or perhaps leave later night(s) a bit flexible.

 

Travelling south (we regularly travel most of that route) - be sure to use the M6 Toll Motorway, which cuts across the last part of the M6 by Birmingham. It is well worth the toll payment as it is much quieter than the Motorway north of Birmingham which gets very congested. The route after that takes you onto the M42 south, (to the East of Birmingham), and the M40, which you leave just north of Oxford to take the A34. The A34 which forms part of the Oxford bypass can get really clogged at times, so try to get past that section before 4pm and keep aware of any traffic warnings for Oxford - we have seen complete stoppages there at times. If you do stay in Stratford you may want to stop off on your way south as it is very near that route. We often stay there on our journey, if we can get a good offer.

 

Winchester is only about 45 mins from Southampton cruise terminals, so I would be quite happy going to the port direct from your Winchester base. Just bear in mind that the journey is on the motorway system (M3, M27 and M271) and traffic can come to a stop anytime, so I would make it an earlyish start, just in case. We travel that bit of the M3 regularly as my in laws are from the area. The traffic can be fairly busy, but tends to keep moving, even if it slows right down at times. Coming south in the morning after the main rush hour (so after about 9.30am), should be fine.

 

Your hire vehicle will presumably have a radio with the ability to set it to the "traffic" setting. This means that any traffic news will cut into any other broadcast, or you can keep the radio silent and the traffic broadcasts will come on. This is well worth using, so check with the hire company how to use that if you have not used that sort of system previously. The broadcasts are usually confined to working days, but sometimes come on at weekends as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

Edited April 25, 2016 by tring

[4774Papa]

Barbara, thanks again for the great travel tips. We are excited about our trip.

 

I think that we may not overnight in Nottingham, perhaps stop. Wollaston Hall and Park is listed by TripAdvisor as the number 1 site to see.

 

I know we will not enjoy the weather so much in October, but benefit from not coming in high season.

[John Bull]

My four-penn'orth............

 

Since you've driven in the UK, you probably don't need us to tell you about road conditions generally.

But I'd use about a 50 mile / 90 minute radius as a yardstick for a day-trip.

 

So for instance from a base in Moreton-in-Marsh or thereabouts you can comfortably visit Stratford-upon-Avon & Warwick castle (many folk would visit both in one day, but you have four weeks), the same with Blenheim Palace & Oxford.

For a Stratford + Warwick day, Stratford first works out better for traffic & crowds. Or take a full day in Stratford & visit Warwick castle when you switch your base north from the Cotswolds.

As per the Eagle's advice, by car for Blenheim + Oxford (using Oxford's park-and-ride). Or if your base is Moreton-in-Marsh, for just Oxford you may want to use the train for a change. Day-return tickets £10 pp, and a total of an hour or more saved.

Roman sights in Cheltenham & Cirencester would make a good round-trip from a Cotswolds base.

 

You can also easily visit Wells & spooky Glastonbury in a day from a Bath base. And if you add Cheddar Gorge the total drive-time is only about 2 hours, much of it scenic.

Although much of the history is from way before Roman times, another interesting day out from Bath would be to Lacock, Avebury Ring, Silbury Hill, West Kennet longbarrow, Marlborough, mebbe Stonehenge. About 90 miles / 2.5 hours including Stonehenge, 60 miles & under 2 hours excluding Stonehenge.

Stonehenge & Salisbury makes a good day out from Bath, about 80 miles, 2hrs 15. Or incorporate them later in your trip, from Winchester.

Bath itself is well worth a full day.

If you want to lodge in the centre of Bath, check the hotel's parking arrangements.

 

Bath to Bristol is a frustratingly slow road, only a dozen miles but 40 minutes plus. Bristol's one-way system frequently foxes both me & my gps, mebbe skip the city centre & head straight for SS Great Britain. Then the A4 along the Avon Gorge & under the Clifton suspension bridge to the M5 motorway & head for Wales.

 

Pembroke castle is excellent, as is the little wonky cathedral hidden in the valley at St David's - a tiny village that was once the capital of Wales.

 

Since you don't want to visit north Wales this time, from Llanddewi-Brefi to the Cotswolds (or pretty-well anywhere else), cut through the Brecon Beacons, & near Merthyr Tydfil take the Heads of the Valley road to Abergavenney, then mebbe stop off at Raglan castle. All roads in mid-Wales are slow, but about 3.5 hours from Llanddewi-Brefi to (e.g.) Moreton-in-Marsh.

 

Sorry, I don't rate Nottingham. You have your reason to visit, but I suggest you don't extend it. Nottingham is only about 90 minutes from Warwick, but if you overnite in Nottingham you'll be mixing it with commuter traffic whether you go via Coventry or the M42. I don't know anything about Wollaston Hall.

 

York is well worth 2 or 3 days.

 

You could use a York base for a drive across the North Yorkshire moors to Whitby, or drive to Pickering & take the steam railway http://www.nymr.co.uk/ to Whitby as per TMLA's suggestion. Also avoids parking grief in Whitby.

 

Also consider Eden Camp, half an hour from York. http://www.edencamp.co.uk/

A very interesting & inexpensive experience.

 

Can't help with Harian's Wall - I'm a southern softie & north of Newcastle all my maps say only "There be dragons here". ;)

 

Lake District - I guess Windermere / Ambleside is probably the most convenient base, though with a car you could also consider Grasmere, Kendal or even Coniston.

Roads are slow but very attractive, & try to fit in one or two passes like Honister and Hardknott. (for whatever reason googlemaps doesn't show them, but don't let that put you off - they're all paved & not difficult).

And a steamboat ride on Lake Windermere is almost mandatory.

Worth 3 full days.

 

The one big thing I'd caution you against is the Lake District to Winchester drive in a single day.

Under 5 hours in a single day looks simple enough, but it's all motorway & apart from being very boring the time is very dependent on traffic. It's taken me well over 7 hours from Windermere to near Winchester on a Friday. :eek:

The M6 stretch from the junction with the M62 (Liverpool/Manchester) to south of Birmingham is particularly notorious for lengthy log-jams, those log-jams continue south to Winchester on a bad day. That's regardless of whether you use the M6 toll road to avoid the worst of it around Birmingham, or whether you pass Birmingham to the west or the east. And there are no decently quick alternatives using local roads.

Those on a whistle-stop tour perhaps have no alternative, but I'd suggest you split that into at least two days & see some more sights & countryside.

Consider via the Yorkshire Dales, a stop-over in the Peak District, mebbe then cross the M6 to Coalbrookdale / Ironbridge/ Coalport (birthplace of the industrial revolution). An overnite here if you want to see the sights in detail, then complete your journey down the west side before crossing to Winchester, something like this

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Windermere,+Cumbria/Bakewell/Winchester,+Hampshire,+UK/@52.2386763,-4.545928,7z/data=!4m60!4m59!1m25!1m1!1s0x487c934574be0139:0xd17f1c1611bb5b79!2m2!1d-2.906785!2d54.380685!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6808804!2d54.3264613!3s0x487c8c1a1268fa99:0x820863f4f2eb80db!3m4!1m2!1d-2.4209748!2d54.3055404!3s0x487c64141bf82457:0xe2aa8afe02f6c2b0!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1464129!2d54.2044636!3s0x487c72e75e5be2d9:0xf76cb0fc095fb76f!3m4!1m2!1d-1.842389!2d53.5436554!3s0x487bd00155f42933:0x398f96b8228c16e6!1m25!1m1!1s0x487987749f9846c1:0x474111f1604dd076!2m2!1d-1.676171!2d53.215207!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1128114!2d52.9492177!3s0x487a6bfc8a2b7b79:0x16e94e5be9603723!3m4!1m2!1d-2.4925624!2d52.6345623!3s0x48707f282e7b690b:0x7710a230da5915af!3m4!1m2!1d-2.4751015!2d52.6256983!3s0x48707ee7997ca617:0x2758e7b28031f221!3m4!1m2!1d-2.3867107!2d52.5148062!3s0x487087f91dbccc3f:0xfae7dd22dd3d6b9b!1m5!1m1!1s0x487405528df97463:0x67a4865d66a8eda1!2m2!1d-1.310142!2d51.059771!3e0

Yes, at 10 hours it's twice as long as the minimum time by motorway, but infinitely more interesting & enjoyable for the driving as well as the sights.

 

Arundel is something over an hour from Winchester. The castle is well worth visiting.

Mebbe also call in at https://sussexpast.co.uk/properties-to-discover/fishbourne-roman-palace or http://www.wealddown.co.uk/ or http://www.amberleymuseum.co.uk/ All are en-route.

I'd suggest for a pleasant drive, from Winchester on the A272 via Petersfield, Petworth, Midhurst, and back via the coast to Havant then along the top of Portsdown hiill with its Napoleonic forts & views over Portsmouth, then back to Winchester via the motorway - or via Bishops Waltham to avoid the worst of the traffic if it's commuter-time (4.30 to 6.30). Something like this......

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Winchester,+Hampshire/Arundel/Wickham/Winchester/@50.8988173,-0.9964773,11z/data=!4m56!4m55!1m15!1m1!1s0x487405528df97463:0x67a4865d66a8eda1!2m2!1d-1.310142!2d51.059771!3m4!1m2!1d-0.8671135!2d51.0062495!3s0x487449d91fcc03ff:0xf9c3a51a36404b96!3m4!1m2!1d-0.569445!2d50.902349!3s0x4875b0968c98e21d:0x87f81ccd4e266d1!1m25!1m1!1s0x4875a4d10c96d8bf:0xe9a76e70e6b7cc5a!2m2!1d-0.555119!2d50.855171!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0492676!2d50.8466037!3s0x48744331677c1b09:0x884ab6b4dd301714!3m4!1m2!1d-1.1090329!2d50.8572189!3s0x487442a116386471:0x2767542c9d9391f8!3m4!1m2!1d-1.1385074!2d50.8596544!3s0x4874686ab50552ab:0x54729830c530aecd!3m4!1m2!1d-1.1648251!2d50.8670672!3s0x487468f6c85d37f3:0x883cde021f11f3d3!1m5!1m1!1s0x48746912218364d1:0xfafccb6d8bd67eef!2m2!1d-1.188434!2d50.898199!1m5!1m1!1s0x487405528df97463:0x67a4865d66a8eda1!2m2!1d-1.310142!2d51.059771!3e0

 

Winchester to Southampton on cruise day is no problem. Let the commuters settle behind their desks, & leave after 10am for the half-hour drive.

 

All just MHO as always.

 

Once you've worked out a provisional route & schedule, post it on here & we can all squabble about it. ;)

 

JB :)

Edited April 25, 2016 by John Bull

[4774Papa]

My four-penn'orth............

 

Since you've driven in the UK, you probably don't need us to tell you about road conditions generally.

But I'd use about a 50 mile / 90 minute radius as a yardstick for a day-trip.

 

So for instance from a base in Moreton-in-Marsh or thereabouts you can comfortably visit Stratford-upon-Avon & Warwick castle (many folk would visit both in one day, but you have four weeks), the same with Blenheim Palace & Oxford.

For a Stratford + Warwick day, Stratford first works out better for traffic & crowds. Or take a full day in Stratford & visit Warwick castle when you switch your base north from the Cotswolds.

As per the Eagle's advice, by car for Blenheim + Oxford (using Oxford's park-and-ride). Or if your base is Moreton-in-Marsh, for just Oxford you may want to use the train for a change. Day-return tickets £10 pp, and a total of an hour or more saved.

Roman sights in Cheltenham & Cirencester would make a good round-trip from a Cotswolds base.

 

You can also easily visit Wells & spooky Glastonbury in a day from a Bath base. And if you add Cheddar Gorge the total drive-time is only about 2 hours, much of it scenic.

Although much of the history is from way before Roman times, another interesting day out from Bath would be to Lacock, Avebury Ring, Silbury Hill, West Kennet longbarrow, Marlborough, mebbe Stonehenge. About 90 miles / 2.5 hours including Stonehenge, 60 miles & under 2 hours excluding Stonehenge.

Stonehenge & Salisbury makes a good day out from Bath, about 80 miles, 2hrs 15. Or incorporate them later in your trip, from Winchester.

Bath itself is well worth a full day.

If you want to lodge in the centre of Bath, check the hotel's parking arrangements.

 

Bath to Bristol is a frustratingly slow road, only a dozen miles but 40 minutes plus. Bristol's one-way system frequently foxes both me & my gps, mebbe skip the city centre & head straight for SS Great Britain. Then the A4 along the Avon Gorge & under the Clifton suspension bridge to the M5 motorway & head for Wales.

 

Pembroke castle is excellent, as is the little wonky cathedral hidden in the valley at St David's - a tiny village that was once the capital of Wales.

 

Since you don't want to visit north Wales this time, from Llanddewi-Brefi to the Cotswolds (or pretty-well anywhere else), cut through the Brecon Beacons, & near Merthyr Tydfil take the Heads of the Valley road to Abergavenney, then mebbe stop off at Raglan castle. All roads in mid-Wales are slow, but about 3.5 hours from Llanddewi-Brefi to (e.g.) Moreton-in-Marsh.

 

Sorry, I don't rate Nottingham. You have your reason to visit, but I suggest you don't extend it. Nottingham is only about 90 minutes from Warwick, but if you overnite in Nottingham you'll be mixing it with commuter traffic whether you go via Coventry or the M42. I don't know anything about Wollaston Hall.

 

York is well worth 2 or 3 days.

 

You could use a York base for a drive across the North Yorkshire moors to Whitby, or drive to Pickering & take the steam railway http://www.nymr.co.uk/ to Whitby as per TMLA's suggestion. Also avoids parking grief in Whitby.

 

Also consider Eden Camp, half an hour from York. http://www.edencamp.co.uk/

A very interesting & inexpensive experience.

 

Can't help with Harian's Wall - I'm a southern softie & north of Newcastle all my maps say only "There be dragons here". ;)

 

Lake District - I guess Windermere / Ambleside is probably the most convenient base, though with a car you could also consider Grasmere, Kendal or even Coniston.

Roads are slow but very attractive, & try to fit in one or two passes like Honister and Hardknott. (for whatever reason googlemaps doesn't show them, but don't let that put you off - they're all paved & not difficult).

And a steamboat ride on Lake Windermere is almost mandatory.

Worth 3 full days.

 

The one big thing I'd caution you against is the Lake District to Winchester drive in a single day.

Under 5 hours in a single day looks simple enough, but it's all motorway & apart from being very boring the time is very dependent on traffic. It's taken me well over 7 hours from Windermere to near Winchester on a Friday. :eek:

The M6 stretch from the junction with the M62 (Liverpool/Manchester) to south of Birmingham is particularly notorious for lengthy log-jams, those log-jams continue south to Winchester on a bad day. That's regardless of whether you use the M6 toll road to avoid the worst of it around Birmingham, or whether you pass Birmingham to the west or the east. And there are no decently quick alternatives using local roads.

Those on a whistle-stop tour perhaps have no alternative, but I'd suggest you split that into at least two days & see some more sights & countryside.

Consider via the Yorkshire Dales, a stop-over in the Peak District, mebbe then cross the M6 to Coalbrookdale / Ironbridge/ Coalport (birthplace of the industrial revolution). An overnite here if you want to see the sights in detail, then complete your journey down the west side before crossing to Winchester, something like this

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Windermere,+Cumbria/Bakewell/Winchester,+Hampshire,+UK/@52.2386763,-4.545928,7z/data=!4m60!4m59!1m25!1m1!1s0x487c934574be0139:0xd17f1c1611bb5b79!2m2!1d-2.906785!2d54.380685!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6808804!2d54.3264613!3s0x487c8c1a1268fa99:0x820863f4f2eb80db!3m4!1m2!1d-2.4209748!2d54.3055404!3s0x487c64141bf82457:0xe2aa8afe02f6c2b0!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1464129!2d54.2044636!3s0x487c72e75e5be2d9:0xf76cb0fc095fb76f!3m4!1m2!1d-1.842389!2d53.5436554!3s0x487bd00155f42933:0x398f96b8228c16e6!1m25!1m1!1s0x487987749f9846c1:0x474111f1604dd076!2m2!1d-1.676171!2d53.215207!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1128114!2d52.9492177!3s0x487a6bfc8a2b7b79:0x16e94e5be9603723!3m4!1m2!1d-2.4925624!2d52.6345623!3s0x48707f282e7b690b:0x7710a230da5915af!3m4!1m2!1d-2.4751015!2d52.6256983!3s0x48707ee7997ca617:0x2758e7b28031f221!3m4!1m2!1d-2.3867107!2d52.5148062!3s0x487087f91dbccc3f:0xfae7dd22dd3d6b9b!1m5!1m1!1s0x487405528df97463:0x67a4865d66a8eda1!2m2!1d-1.310142!2d51.059771!3e0

Yes, at 10 hours it's twice as long as the minimum time by motorway, but infinitely more interesting & enjoyable for the driving as well as the sights.

 

Arundel is something over an hour from Winchester. The castle is well worth visiting.

Mebbe also call in at https://sussexpast.co.uk/properties-to-discover/fishbourne-roman-palace or http://www.wealddown.co.uk/ or http://www.amberleymuseum.co.uk/ All are en-route.

I'd suggest for a pleasant drive, from Winchester on the A272 via Petersfield, Petworth, Midhurst, and back via the coast to Havant then along the top of Portsdown hiill with its Napoleonic forts & views over Portsmouth, then back to Winchester via the motorway - or via Bishops Waltham to avoid the worst of the traffic if it's commuter-time (4.30 to 6.30). Something like this......

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Winchester,+Hampshire/Arundel/Wickham/Winchester/@50.8988173,-0.9964773,11z/data=!4m56!4m55!1m15!1m1!1s0x487405528df97463:0x67a4865d66a8eda1!2m2!1d-1.310142!2d51.059771!3m4!1m2!1d-0.8671135!2d51.0062495!3s0x487449d91fcc03ff:0xf9c3a51a36404b96!3m4!1m2!1d-0.569445!2d50.902349!3s0x4875b0968c98e21d:0x87f81ccd4e266d1!1m25!1m1!1s0x4875a4d10c96d8bf:0xe9a76e70e6b7cc5a!2m2!1d-0.555119!2d50.855171!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0492676!2d50.8466037!3s0x48744331677c1b09:0x884ab6b4dd301714!3m4!1m2!1d-1.1090329!2d50.8572189!3s0x487442a116386471:0x2767542c9d9391f8!3m4!1m2!1d-1.1385074!2d50.8596544!3s0x4874686ab50552ab:0x54729830c530aecd!3m4!1m2!1d-1.1648251!2d50.8670672!3s0x487468f6c85d37f3:0x883cde021f11f3d3!1m5!1m1!1s0x48746912218364d1:0xfafccb6d8bd67eef!2m2!1d-1.188434!2d50.898199!1m5!1m1!1s0x487405528df97463:0x67a4865d66a8eda1!2m2!1d-1.310142!2d51.059771!3e0

 

Winchester to Southampton on cruise day is no problem. Let the commuters settle behind their desks, & leave after 10am for the half-hour drive.

 

All just MHO as always.

 

Once you've worked out a provisional route & schedule, post it on here & we can all squabble about it. ;)

 

JB :)

 

John,

Thanks again for all the great information. I am very pleased by how much assistance my British cousins have provided for planning our trip to our ancestral homelands.

[tring]

As John says half an hour could well do your route to the port from Winchester, but I did not want to be responsible for someone 'missing the boat'. Also Windermere and Ambleside are the two main tourist towns in the lakes which may well be your preference and, to be fair, in October they should not be totally over run by tourists, which is my dislike.

 

I mentioned what is the quickest route to Winchester if you do decide you do want to do it in one day, though in your situation, I would also suggest a stop off. Taking a route back and forth though the Peninnes would need two stop offs rather than one IMO as that would be an extremely slow road. The timings on the online maps are not at all realistic as you are likely to get stuck behind slow moving vehicles. Worse still you usually get locals sitting on your tail if you are not moving at least 10MPH above the speed limit, even in rainy conditions on bendy mountain roads. We do get quite a lot of rain and misty conditions in the autumn on the northern highland areas and to the west of them (there is not so much moisture left once the prevailing winds get to the east of the hills, but you can never predict weather anywhere).

 

The picturesque Peak District is mainly to the east of the Pennines and could be easily be reached from, for instance, Chesterfield which is a reasonably pleasant market town not far north of Nottingham. We take long weekends to the peaks from time to time so know it reasonably well. Chatsworth house may be worth a visit there as well as a drive round the area if the weather is resonable - the autumn colours look good on a sunny day. I agree with John’s sentiment that it would be nice to see something of the country on you longer journeys though, rather than plough through.

 

My original suggestion of visiting Chester (if only for a short stop) is why I first responded to your question and I still think it could be worthwhile as it would also be a diversion from the particularly bad part of the M6 as mentioned by John. If you still wanted to cover the journey fairly quickly, yet do a stop over somewhere, you could easily leave the M6 just south of Liverpool, (don't be tempted to cut through Liverpool traffic), and take the M56 to Chester which is an easy half hour journey as it is not a very busy road. From there you could go south on the A41 which is a completely clear road, (as the only towns are by passed), and access the M6 toll via the A5 if you still want to move on quickly. Alternatively you can take a slightly more westerly route and go to Telford as John suggests, but be aware the best museum, (Blists Hill,) will not have many costumed actors, (if any), at that time of year and some of the buildings will be closed up as well. Telford is another weekend base for us.

 

We live just north of Chester and do the route from home to beyond Winchester many times a year to visit my husband’s elderly Mother. The route south from Telford, suggested by John, is a very good route, which we use some times for variation and I agree that would be a preferable route with a stop over, but it always takes longer than the M6 toll motorway route. It is possible to cut across the M54 (likely to be moving freely) to the M6 toll form Telford, (which is usually almost empty), if you are really keen to move on quickly. We have not found the roads south of Birmingham particularly bad at all by English standards, both those routes being comparable to each other if travelling before say 4pm and either route can be problematic after that.

 

Unless you have a particular need to keep to your original order of visits, it would be more sensible to go north up one side of the country and down the other, coupling Wales with the Lakes. The road along the borders of Wales and England has numerous picturesque old Market towns, (Hereford, Leominster, Ludlow, Church Stretton Shrewsbury, then perhaps Oswestry or Whitchurch. That road moves well between the towns and most towns are fairly small, but it is not the quickest route obviously.

 

Sorry I did not mean to go on like this – please excuse my ramblings, I am sure you can make your own decisions, but do pick up a book style large scale road map if you want to look for scenic routes, as SATNAV’s always direct you back onto motorways or other main routes.

Edited April 27, 2016 by tring

[4774Papa]

As John says half an hour could well do your route to the port from Winchester, but I did not want to be responsible for someone 'missing the boat'. Also Windermere and Ambleside are the two main tourist towns in the lakes which may well be your preference and, to be fair, in October they should not be totally over run by tourists, which is my dislike.

 

I mentioned what is the quickest route to Winchester if you do decide you do want to do it in one day, though in your situation, I would also suggest a stop off. Taking a route back and forth though the Peninnes would need two stop offs rather than one IMO as that would be an extremely slow road. The timings on the online maps are not at all realistic as you are likely to get stuck behind slow moving vehicles. Worse still you usually get locals sitting on your tail if you are not moving at least 10MPH above the speed limit, even in rainy conditions on bendy mountain roads. We do get quite a lot of rain and misty conditions in the autumn on the northern highland areas and to the west of them (there is not so much moisture left once the prevailing winds get to the east of the hills, but you can never predict weather anywhere).

 

The picturesque Peak District is mainly to the east of the Pennines and could be easily be reached from, for instance, Chesterfield which is a reasonably pleasant market town not far north of Nottingham. We take long weekends to the peaks from time to time so know it reasonably well. Chatsworth house may be worth a visit there as well as a drive round the area if the weather is resonable - the autumn colours look good on a sunny day. I agree with John’s sentiment that it would be nice to see something of the country on you longer journeys though, rather than plough through.

 

My original suggestion of visiting Chester (if only for a short stop) is why I first responded to your question and I still think it could be worthwhile as it would also be a diversion from the particularly bad part of the M6 as mentioned by John. If you still wanted to cover the journey fairly quickly, yet do a stop over somewhere, you could easily leave the M6 just south of Liverpool, (don't be tempted to cut through Liverpool traffic), and take the M56 to Chester which is an easy half hour journey as it is not a very busy road. From there you could go south on the A41 which is a completely clear road, (as the only towns are by passed), and access the M6 toll via the A5 if you still want to move on quickly. Alternatively you can take a slightly more westerly route and go to Telford as John suggests, but be aware the best museum, (Blists Hill,) will not have many costumed actors, (if any), at that time of year and some of the buildings will be closed up as well. Telford is another weekend base for us.

 

We live just north of Chester and do the route from home to beyond Winchester many times a year to visit my husband’s elderly Mother. The route south from Telford, suggested by John, is a very good route, which we use some times for variation and I agree that would be a preferable route with a stop over, but it always takes longer than the M6 toll motorway route. It is possible to cut across the M54 (likely to be moving freely) to the M6 toll form Telford, (which is usually almost empty), if you are really keen to move on quickly. We have not found the roads south of Birmingham particularly bad at all by English standards, both those routes being comparable to each other if travelling before say 4pm and either route can be problematic after that.

 

Unless you have a particular need to keep to your original order of visits, it would be more sensible to go north up one side of the country and down the other, coupling Wales with the Lakes. The road along the borders of Wales and England has numerous picturesque old Market towns, (Hereford, Leominster, Ludlow, Church Stretton Shrewsbury, then perhaps Oswestry or Whitchurch. That road moves well between the towns and most towns are fairly small, but it is not the quickest route obviously.

 

Sorry I did not mean to go on like this – please excuse my ramblings, I am sure you can make your own decisions, but do pick up a book style large scale road map if you want to look for scenic routes, as SATNAV’s always direct you back onto motorways or other main routes.

trying, thanks for all the great information, if any of my British cousins even want to come to the southeastern US, I can assist with travel planning. Many foreign visitors go to NYC, Washington, DC, California, etc., but don't visit some great places like Williamsburg, VA, Charleston, SC, Savannah, GA, St. Augistine, FLA and more.

 

We are undecided between Keswick and Windermere for the Lake District. Both look like great places to stay.

 

Because of another post, we are considering a stop at Ironbridge gorge on our way from the Lake District to Winchester. I thought of stopping in Chester, but was concerned about going through Liverpool. I have an interest in Roman history and Chester is an ancient Roman city.

 

Of course, I have to be careful with planning, since we don't want to exceed 28 days.

[newport dave]

trying, thanks for all the great information, if any of my British cousins even want to come to the southeastern US, I can assist with travel planning. Many foreign visitors go to NYC, Washington, DC, California, etc., but don't visit some great places like Williamsburg, VA, Charleston, SC, Savannah, GA, St. Augistine, FLA and more.

 

We are undecided between Keswick and Windermere for the Lake District. Both look like great places to stay.

 

Because of another post, we are considering a stop at Ironbridge gorge on our way from the Lake District to Winchester. I thought of stopping in Chester, but was concerned about going through Liverpool. I have an interest in Roman history and Chester is an ancient Roman city.

 

Of course, I have to be careful with planning, since we don't want to exceed 28 days.

Don't need to go through Liverpool to get to Chester. Just use the M6 and M56 motorways. Just try not to use them in the morning and evening rush hour.

 

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