Where forth goeth HAL?

[rochnd]

This November we will embark on the Ryndam for the Sea of Cortez. We selected this cruise for the ports it would visit. A second factor was HAL, highly reccomended by our cruise agent. He knew of our low key approach to the cruising lifestyle and felt it would be a good fit. We have also booked a second HAL cruise for next April.

 

I now wonder if HAL has lost it's way? There are several threads current that talk of disgruntled guests, shoved aside and really forgotten in the pursuit of the bottom line (read the Princess House adventures), silly (perhaps) antics (chef special dinner show), discontinued traditions replaced by other, perhaps less elegant ones, and a general change in over all service from what it once was. The show dinner and moose parade I can almost liken to the Brit's crackers and hats at Christmas, just that the latter is not terribly intrusive. Is that a key I wonder?

 

I am aware that Carnival has bought the Line, but I don't think that a "Carnivalization" of HAL fits with Carnivals prior pattern of acquisition. In the past it has always been rather hands off and "continue with what you are doing best", type of management. True, they have instituted some corporate changes to make the overall business more efficient they hope, but they have, up to this point stayed away from the essance of a cruise line. We recently sailed on Princess, enjoyed the cruise, found no major differences from Princess cruises taken a decade ago and no hint of Carnivalization.

 

I am not a Carnival fan. Just not my style of cruising, nothing negative or snobish about it, I just prefer a bit more elegance and less glare and raucous noise and intrusion.

 

Is HAL so desperate for passengers that it is rumbling about trying to find out what works to draw them in? Are we, who ever that is, that mythical HAL traveler, a vanishing breed? Are we dying off at such a rate the potential members to our fold cannot replace us fast enough? Perhaps moving to other more expensive lines that offer more of that quality we all seem to seek? Or is it that we have lost our place, that times have changed and perhaps passed US by? Perhaps that is what aging is all about after all?:(

[Randyk47]

Don,

 

I certainly don't have the answers to all your questions. I would suggest, and this is my own opinion, that most service providers go through some kind of evolution over time. The baby boomers are still very much alive and well so I don't think it's so much a matter of us dying off faster than HAL can replace us as it is HAL trying to grow it's passenger base. We can agree or not agree with some of their changes and, in some cases, only time will tell whether or not they've taken the product in the right direction. I'm reminded of New Coke....probably one of, if not the major, example of a corporation out thinking itself.

[Iggipolka]

 

Is HAL so desperate for passengers that it is rumbling about trying to find out what works to draw them in? Are we, who ever that is, that mythical HAL traveler, a vanishing breed? Are we dying off at such a rate the potential members to our fold cannot replace us fast enough? :(

 

Hey! I'm only 35! I'm not dead yet!

 

There are cruisers in my age group who like HAL the way it is and certainly don't like the changes that have been going on.

[MikeT718]

:confused: I posted this on the thread about Dinning change but it fits here also

 

I am reading this thread on and off granted I have only been on 1 HAL cruise and have another booked but I really like HAL and have to wonder....WHAT IS NEXT??? a MEGA SHIP OF OVER 3000 PAX with a par 72 PGA style golf coiurse..Please stop the madness..HAL please stand alone and keep things status quo, do not become a what the rest of the cruise lines have become, stay true to your roots....:confused:

[jhannah]

Those of us who like the HAL product as it's been for a long time aren't dead and gone. But maybe we don't spend enough money onboard to make the bean counters happy.

 

In a recent poll Iggipolka started, 86 folks participated. 45% said they spent more than $300 onboard, while 45% indicated they spent in the $100-300 range. Maybe new cruisers are more inclined to pick up every little knick-knack that jumps off the shelf at them, and purchase lots of liquor and photographs.

 

Have no clue, but it's just a thought.

[MikeT718]

Jim,

Maybe you are right it is the amount spent aboard ship I know for me I spend a lot, trying to keep the status quo. In the casino between 500 and 1000 per week and there is always something DW DS or I want from the ship board stores..Maybe if there were more of us then we'd have a larger voice..As some one said in another thread we need to find some one to buy 51% of the stock then we caould have a voice....:)

[cruzn single]

Just a few "rambling" thoughts in reply to others thoughts and observations.

 

We will be on our 7th HAL cruise next week. We have been on the Maasdam twice (once in her inagural year), and also on the Ryndam on the Sea of Cortez cruise.

 

Inagural year of the Maasdam we sat at a table for dinner that was directly opposite from Mr. Aronson and his wife (owner of Carnival Cruise Lines). Carnival owned HAL in 1994 when we were on the Maasdam. As a matter of fact we were given their table when they left the ship in Caracas. We loved the ship and the cruise then, we loved the Maasdam in Alaska in 1998, and we truly loved the Ryndam in 2002 when we were were on the Sea of Cortez cruise.

 

The Ryndam was especially memorable. Two different evenings the dining room was specially decorated, the waiters wore special uniforms, and every effort was made to make every evening in the dining room something special. That was the only cruise we have taken where we were invited to be at the Captain's table for dinner on the last formal night. The Ryndam will always be one of our special memories for the wonderful cruise we enjoyed on her. (And all of this a good number of years after Carnival assumed ownership of HAL). That cruise was the first one we experienced "The Running of the Moose" and we enjoyed it simply for the fun of the evening.

 

HAL ships simply do not have the "party atmosphere" of the Carnival ships, and I honestly do not believe that is the direction that HAL is going. I may have a different feeling about HAL after a 15-day Hawaiian cruise starting next week, but I seriously doubt that our impression of the cruise line will change that much.

[jazncruiser]

We haven't noticed a lot of changes on HAL. We have sailed with them the last 10 years (4 cruises). The service is still the same and the activities still the same except for the new master chef dinner which we enjoyed. They are still elegent and fun for us. We met two asst. cruise activity persons and they always spoke to us and made us feel welcome as if we were their friends. The bartenders, crew, cabin stewards were wonderful. We spent on our last cruise (10 days this October) over 700.00 and this was for incidentals as well as bingo and bar tabs. It is no more or less than we did on our 7 day cruises per day. Now, we have never experienced any other cruise line other than a RCCL 4 day so we don't have much to compare to. We have spoke to our last cruise mates and have decided to try Celebrity but are a little afraid due to such great times and service we have had on HAL. We love HAL as they treat us "just right". So this is my opinion.

 

Patti

 

P.S. We are in our early fifties and started sailing with HAL for our 20th anniversary 10 years ago. We love the diversity of the people on board (PAX) and learn so much. That is one of the main reasons we sail with them. One time we hung out with 20's and other times with 70's. This cruise, there were plenty of us 50 year olds. Had a great time, made some friends for life!!:D

[TedC]

I am aware that Carnival has bought the Line, but I don't think that a "Carnivalization" of HAL fits with Carnivals prior pattern of acquisition. In the past it has always been rather hands off and "continue with what you are doing best", type of management. True, they have instituted some corporate changes to make the overall business more efficient they hope, but they have, up to this point stayed away from the essance of a cruise line. We recently sailed on Princess, enjoyed the cruise, found no major differences from Princess cruises taken a decade ago and no hint of Carnivalization.

(

 

 

Carnival corp. has owned HAL for more than 15 years - much longer than it has owned Princess.

 

We still prefer the ambience of HAL over most other lines. There have been changes in HAL - some we like and some we don't - but what viable business do you know that hasn't changed?

 

The good news is there's a wide variety of options for our vacation dollars. We still think cruising is a reasonable choice and HAL currently is our favorite.

[arzz]

Hey, I just got off the Volendam which was complete with the Master Chef Dinner -- I have many, many cruises under my belt and over 55 days with HAL. HAL is still my favorite line. Did one cruise on the Zuiderdam this summer, but my experience on the Volendam convinced me that HAL is still number 1 for my taste -- it was almost like the Zuiderdam experience was a different cruise line. (Still very nice but too crowded for my taste, ship was not as elegant, and not quite as low key)

 

Master Chef dinner aside (I am definitely not a great fan of the dancing waiters) I still had an elegant and sophisticated cruise on a ship full of interesting people and staff who care so much that they seem to never feel like they have done enough for me. It was the low key, HAL experience that I desired and the Volendam is a beautiful, well maintained, ship.

 

We spent our 10 days playing with both Hurricane Wilma and Tropical Storm Alpha. I never felt that the passengers were anything but the top priority of our Captain. He diverted from the regular course as necessary to keep us in the best of seas, and he and Seattle definitely made the best decision at the end of the cruise which was to take us to Port Canaveral rather than to Port Everglades. As I correspond with new friends that I made while on board everyone seems to have gotten home almost as quickly as if we had gone into a non hurricane damaged Port Everglades, though some did have to spend the night in Orlando. HAL, the Captain, and the staff behaved as if they truly cared about our welfare in the face of these two storms.

[Jim Gallup]

Does anyone remember Royal Viking Cruise Line?

In her day, most everyone agreed that she was just about as good as it gets. Their cruises were a bit more expensive, but nearly everything was included in the price. The clientele was very upscale, the ships were very elegant. the service and food were spectacular.

They did just about everything the "right" way.

Sounds a bit like Holland America, doesn't it?

In fact, Holland America Line was very much like that about 17 years ago as they were about to enter bankruptcy. Carnival came to rescue and bailed them out.

 

Then cruising - and cruisers -started changing quite a bit in the mid-1980s.Most cruise lines started cutting back and going mainstream to satisfy the masses.

I worked at Royal Viking during those times and really enjoyed it.My bosses refused to cave in to the "dummying down" of cruising. They vowed to hold the line against mediocrity and low class. They insisted on several formal nights every cruise. They had ballroom dancing, classic entertainers, and all of the great stuff mentioned in this thread.

In the early 1990s, Royal Viking declared bankruptcy. They were 8 BILLION dollars in debt, with very few assets. They had sold off nearly everything to stay in business as long as they did. Several thousand employees lost their jobs. Many suppliers were bankrupted by the huge debtrs owed them by Royal Viking.

Their customer base had completely deserted them. As much as the American public loved the Royal Viking Product, when it came time to book a cruise, those loyal customers had either died - or decided to book a cheaper cruise on Carnival or Royal Caribbean.

 

Now imagine that you are the CEO of Holland America Cruise Line. Billions of dollars, thousands of careers, and tens of thousands of jobs are in your hands.

You also have many tens of thousands of stockholders who are hoping not to lose their shirts like they did with Royal Viking. Would you decide to go the way of Royal Viking Line, or would you choose to play it safe and offer what the great unwashed American Public very obviously wants - a cheap cruise like they get with Royal Caribbean or Carnival?

 

Tell the truth now. What would you do?

[Bramcruiser]

True enough Jim. I can understand the business side of it all as I do work in the financial sector in the downtown core of a major North American city. But............

 

If HAL doesn't do this right then they just became a sad imitator of something else. If you are going to end up looking like Princess or Carnival then why not just jump over to Princess or Carnival.

 

Ultimately only time will tell if HAL did the right thing or not.

[jhannah]

In the past, each cruise line had its own personality and style. And to a degree this is still true. But it isn't as clearly delineated as it used to be. Before we know it, everyone will homogenize into one gray mass of sameness. Why?

[RuthC]

I keep hearing an old commercial in my head: Lee Iacocca is pronouncing "either lead, follow, or get out of the way."

Seems like HAL has picked "follow". :(

[NakedLidoGuy]

Seems like HAL has picked "follow". :(

 

 

Got that right -- it seems to me that HAL is going down the toilet.

[blackbird71]

Sometimes changes are good and some times bad. The WORST food I have had on my 15 cruises was on HAL Noordam in 84. THE best that could be said about it was it was Retirement Home BORING. In 84 the biggest source for cruise information was Cruise Travel magazine. And in it letters section everybody was talking about the bland food on HAL. Then around 85 HAL made changes to the menus.

 

HAL was to be my next cruise for I wanted to go on the Sea of Cortez cruise after the new year, BUT it looks like they dropped that cruise. :(

 

I am looking forward to the new HAL ships, some say they will be the size of the R/S ships but there are a lot of talk of 3,000 pax mega ships. I just will not do the large ships. The Vista ships are too big for me BUT if the ports were right I would go on them. BUT once you get any bigger, you could not drag me on the ship.

[Jim Gallup]

HAL is a publicly listed company. They must publicly release their balance sheet every year. Last year they made more profit than they ever have. Last year most of their profit came from their three large Vista Ships.

 

Would HAL be able to make that extra money if they didn't give the public what they wanted? The American Public decides what works and what does not on a cruise line. If the American public is not happy with what a company offers, they vote with their wallets and walk away. The company fails.

HAL is busier today than they have ever been.

 

HAL nearly went out of business 17 years ago because they were unwilling or unable to change with the times. Should they try that again?

 

NakedLidoGuy claims that HAL is "going down the toilet" today. I and most other HAL stockholders would strongly disagree. We are very happy about investing our hard-earned money in a company that is willing to change while still trying to hold on to some of the finer points of cruising. We are smiling all the way to the bank - and that smile gets brighter with every new HAL change, and every new HAL ship.

 

So you want to sail on a ship that is bleeding money just so you can have your "good old days" cruise? Then go to Seabourn, Crystal, or Silver Sea.

[PRINSENDAM]

Does anyone remember Royal Viking Cruise Line?

In her day, most everyone agreed that she was just about as good as it gets. ?

 

 

Jim,

 

Yes, Royal Viking was great line to cruise with. Restrained elegance throughout.

 

We are today most fortunate that HAL has the PRINSENDAM which of course started life as Royal Viking's ROYAL VIKING SUN.

 

Stephen

[Himself]

As times move on things change. HAL has made some changes but nothing stays the same. You should hear the people here in Manhattan comment on some of the changes the new priest in town has made. Some are happy, some are not. I think the same thing can be said of HAL.

[gbc]

In 1983 I took my very first cruise - on Carnival. I paid about $800 per person for a week in the Caribbean in an outside cabin. About a month ago I spent a week in the Caribbean in an "S" suite on the Zuiderdam. I paid a little over $1200 per person. That's an increase of a little over 50%. Do you remember what you paid for a gallon of milk in 1983? A loaf of bread? Dare I say it - how about a gallon gas? The problem isn't just HAL; it's all cruise lines. When I sailed Princess 20 years ago, the experience was completely different than it is now. You cannot expect the same level of service and perks today that were provided 20 years ago while the price, adjusted for inflation, continues to go down.

 

Cruising is popular becasue it is an inexpensive vacation - price a week at a nice hotel on a Caribbean island with tax and three meals a day and you'll see just how reasonable the cost of a cruise is.

 

If you want things the way they were 15 plus years ago, look at Crystal or Seabourne. The problem is just economic reality.

[ahoymatey3]

My last cruise was on the Massdam. I absolutely loved it (except for one mean lady behind the front desk). I hope they don't change a thing, but I doubt that will be the case. I'm considering the 35 day r/t transatlantic for next year. Please HAL, don't mess it up.