When Vegetarian Options cease to be Vegetarian..

[kevinyork]

On our 6th Eclipse trip right now and one thing that's pleased us previously has been the MDR menu choice for vegetarians with usually a couple of appetisers and an entree marked as suitable plus the separate daily vegetarian menu. My OH is a veggie, not vegan, but veggie in the sense of not eating meat or meat derivatives (the regular meaning of the term).

 

Last night he happened to note a mushroom entree on the vegetarian menu had Parmesan included and as true Parmesan is never vegetarian he enquired to make sure. First answer from waiter, 'yes it's just cheese', next level answer from assistant Maitre D', "it's only a milk product', then she brought the chef who said......... 'none of the cheese onboard is vegetarian as they all contain animal rennet (from a sheeps stomach)'. When my OH asked why they had dishes including none vegetarian cheese marked as suitable for vegetarians he said it's because it's hard to get vegetarian cheeses and many vegetarians don't mind.

 

I suspect it isn't a case of them not minding, it's more a case of them trusting that if its marked as being vegetarian then it is. This means on all our previous cruises he has been eating a meat derivative since the majority of vegetarian dishes they have onboard include cheese. This includes the vegetarian marked pizza in the Ocean View of which he has been a fan.

 

The only option is for him to be given sight of the next night's menu to choose vegetarian dishes so they can make them without any cheese to ensure they are vegetarian..............not very practical and not very enticing. This has really knocked us back somewhat. Would they show something as gluten free and then include a gluten product because they had trouble getting the gluten free alternative? I don't think so as that could cause a reaction from the passenger but most would assume if a menu option says it's suitable for vegetarians that it actually is.

 

Maybe it's different for us in the UK. The majority of mainstream supermarket cheese is vegetarian and Parmesan can be switched for vegetarian Italian hard cheese where necessary. I would have thought with X's buying power they could stipulate they needed a vegetarian variant of the cheese they buy. The least they should do is on their menus where it shows the leaf symbol and then at the bottom shows the leaf as indicating a vegetarian dish is say 'cheese may contain animal rennet'.

 

 

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[gergles]

I think that since being vegetarian is a preference where everyone with it has a slightly different set of desires, Celebrity relies on everyone to know their own particular limits/etc. and to ask questions like you did to determine if things are unsuitable for them.

[kevinyork]

I think that since being vegetarian is a preference where everyone with it has a slightly different set of desires, Celebrity relies on everyone to know their own particular limits/etc. and to ask questions like you did to determine if things are unsuitable for them.

 

 

 

In which case why have vegetarian marked options at all? The issue with this is it took two staff members, a head chef and 30 minutes of our meal time to get the final correct answer. Imagine the confusion if every vegetarian asked about the ingredients in every vegetarian marked dish. That's the idea of marking something a suitable for vegetarians i.e. It doesn't contain meat or meat derivatives.

 

 

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[Bo1953]

I Am sorry that the cheese served aboard, is not considered 'vegetarian' in the UK, it sounds like.

 

Yet, here in the U.S. cheese which is not labeled or described as 'Vegan Friendly' is considered to be vegetarian just to be safe. Many people, I have found, use the sweeping term 'vegetarian' to mean that meat, mainly red, is not eaten. Then there are further breakdowns from there.

 

Personally, I Am vegan, no animal products involved at all. X has never ceased to have something available for me even though I have to help the assigned chef get creative from time to time and that is fun in itself, as I realize we most likely represent less than .0125% of 1% of all passengers sailing the fleet at any given time.

 

With so many variations of 'vegetarian' it is impossible for the chefs to create an 'acceptable' menu for all. But are willing to give it a try, which I, personally, laud. They even have a small selection of vegan wines aboard on each sailing I have been on, which very, very, very few people know or care about, and that is great too...

 

For me, the only item I may have, intentionally, not vegan are the 'veggie burgers' from the Mast Grille as I could never find any authority to confirm that it is indeed a vegan product.

 

bon voyage and good good eating on future cruises.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Bo1953

[hvbaskey]

I Am sorry that the cheese served aboard, is not considered 'vegetarian' in the UK, it sounds like.

 

Yet, here in the U.S. cheese which is not labeled or described as 'Vegan Friendly' is considered to be vegetarian just to be safe. Many people, I have found, use the sweeping term 'vegetarian' to mean that meat, mainly red, is not eaten. Then there are further breakdowns from there.

 

Personally, I Am vegan, no animal products involved at all. X has never ceased to have something available for me even though I have to help the assigned chef get creative from time to time and that is fun in itself, as I realize we most likely represent less than .0125% of 1% of all passengers sailing the fleet at any given time.

 

With so many variations of 'vegetarian' it is impossible for the chefs to create an 'acceptable' menu for all. But are willing to give it a try, which I, personally, laud. They even have a small selection of vegan wines aboard on each sailing I have been on, which very, very, very few people know or care about, and that is great too...

 

For me, the only item I may have, intentionally, not vegan are the 'veggie burgers' from the Mast Grille as I could never find any authority to confirm that it is indeed a vegan product.

 

bon voyage and good good eating on future cruises.

 

I found that the specialty restaurants (Tuscan Grille, Ocean Liners, for example) were very respectful when we said we were vegetarians. They offered us so many options!

 

Our only bad experience was ... wait for it ... "Luminae" (and I am a FAN of Luminae). Our last cruise, one waiter was very disrespectful and kept on telling us how much he loved to eat meat and we should try "this or that", after we repeatedly told him we do not consume meat. I'm hoping our next sailing (on the same ship) that attitude will have changed.

 

We will not consider the "Veggie" burgers from the Mast Grill - it is nice to have the option (yes!) - however, on our sailing they were being grilled *with* the meat burgers, a complete turn-off.

 

Heather

[kevinyork]

I Am sorry that the cheese served aboard, is not considered 'vegetarian' in the UK, it sounds like.

 

Yet, here in the U.S. cheese which is not labeled or described as 'Vegan Friendly' is considered to be vegetarian just to be safe. Many people, I have found, use the sweeping term 'vegetarian' to mean that meat, mainly red, is not eaten. Then there are further breakdowns from there.

 

 

 

In the UK if a restaurant indicates a menu option as being vegetarian then it contains no meat or meat derivatives. There are many who are vegetarian through choice, dietary need and religious grounds. Yes there are other types of vegetarians (lacto-vegetarians for instance who don't eat meat or eggs, and Vegans such as yourself) but being vegetarian here, and using the term on menus, means no meat or meat derivatives whatsoever.

 

We have a Vegetarian Society organisation which defines vegetarians as:- 'Vegetarian: The term ‘vegetarian’ should not be applied to foods that are, or are made from or with the aid of products derived from animals that have died, have been slaughtered, or animals that die as a result of being eaten. Animals means farmed, wild or domestic animals, including for example, livestock poultry, game, fish, shellfish, crustacea, amphibians, tunicates, echinoderms, molluscs and insects.'

 

UK and EU regulations permit that an individual can bring civil action against anyone who misuses the term. So you can see that to find a cruise line sailing from the UK with a large number of UK passengers doesn't adhere to the UK definition is disappointing.

 

As an aside it's interesting to note that the speciality restaurants don't indicate any dishes as being suitable for vegetarians. When we enquired last year at Tuscan Grill about this they said it was due to the cheese (in fact they then went out of their way to find veggie cheese for my OH so we could enjoy a meal there) so if the speciality restaurants don't label any dishes as veggie suitable because of the cheese, why does the MDR?

 

 

 

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[Bo1953]

I found that the specialty restaurants (Tuscan

We will not consider the "Veggie" burgers from the Mast Grill - it is nice to have the option (yes!) - however, on our sailing they were being grilled *with* the meat burgers, a complete turn-off.

 

Heather

 

Thank you hb - I found on Silly they cleaned an area of the grill before putting the burgers on to cook.

 

I was told it would take at least 20 minutes before serving and this was the reason. Not sure if they did the same on your sailing.

 

I would ask that they do that on my future sailings if I see they do not do this automatically.

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

ky - even in the Specialty Restaurants, I do not think about 'vegetarian' and what it is, in or a part of the presentation. I go to the Maitre 'd for each restaurant in which I will eat and explain what I require in terms of meal preparation.

 

I also offer suggestions for types of meals I would enjoy, as well.

 

I have found each of them to be quite helpful and if there were any questions, either in the MDR or SD's they ask straight away....

 

bon voyage

Edited September 19, 2016 by Bo1953

[hvbaskey]

 

I have found each of them to be quite helpful and if there were any questions, either in the MDR or SD's they ask straight away....

 

bon voyage

 

I found most people quite helpful when they knew we were vegetarians. We were super impressed with the Tuscan Grille on our last sailing, as the Maitre'D took note of our lifestyle and the next time we visited, we never had to mention it. He immediately went to the servers and informed them (remembering us from our last meal!). He also would visit our table and ask if he could do anything special for us.

 

All restaurants kindly informed us that the French Onion Soup was made with beef broth and that the Caesar salad dressing had anchovies.

 

Heather

[steamboats]

kevinyork, I don´t want to be disrespectul but actually many cheeses are made with lab-ferment (which is made out of calves´ stomaches not sheep). A vegetarian should know this. Especially Parmesan cheese which is only allowed to be produced in a certain region of Italy and is highly regulated lab-ferment is one of the basic ingredients. You will find lab-ferment in so many other cheeses than it might be hard to find a real vegetarian cheese.

 

Mozzarella as an example is made by pouring hot water over the whey. Same for Provolone or Scamorza. So this cheese should be regarded as vegetarian.

 

Camembert as another example is also made with lab-ferment. So it´s not vegetarian.

 

But as said before a vegetarian should be aware that not all cheeses are vegetarian and which ones are. And I´d never expect a waiter or an assistant Maitre to know exactly those differences. Cheese is a dairy product and therefore no meat. You have to have a bit more knowledge to know that meat derivatives can be involved in cheese making.

 

steamboats

Edited September 19, 2016 by steamboats

[kevinyork]

kevinyork, I don´t want to be disrespectul but actually many cheeses are made with lab-ferment (which is made out of calves´ stomaches not sheep). A vegetarian should know this. Especially Parmesan cheese which is only allowed to be produced in a certain region of Italy and is highly regulated lab-ferment is one of the basic ingredients. You will find lab-ferment in so many other cheeses than it might be hard to find a real vegetarian cheese.

 

Mozzarella as an example is made by pouring hot water over the whey. Same for Provolone or Scamorza. So this cheese should be regarded as vegetarian.

 

Camembert as another example is also made with lab-ferment. So it´s not vegetarian.

 

But as said before a vegetarian should be aware that not all cheeses are vegetarian and which ones are. And I´d never expect a waiter or an assistant Maitre to know exactly those differences. Cheese is a dairy product and therefore no meat. You have to have a bit more knowledge to know that meat derivatives can be involved in cheese making.

 

steamboats

 

 

 

Steamboats, one animal stomach derivative is pretty much the same as another in terms of making a product consisting of it non vegetarian. It's splitting hairs to say it's from a calves stomach rather than a sheeps stomach surely.

 

It's not hard to find a real vegetarian cheese in the U.K. The supermarkets are full of vegetarian cheese all bearing a V symbol which is recognised by the vegetarian society.

 

I'm afraid you cannot say Camembert isn't vegetarian, Mozzarella is etc as there are variances. Believe me I do the shopping at home and have to select to ensure I get a vegetarian variant. We've had veggie Camembert (even in France) and avoided some non veggie Mozzarella. So the type of cheese isn't a reliable way of being certain. I know authentic Parmesan cannot be vegetarian and yet that was the cheese included in the dish on the menu last night that started the enquiry and yet that dish was marked as vegetarian and was on the separate vegetarian menu. What's the justification for that? That the customer should know Parmesan cannot be vegetarian so should avoid it?

 

I agree waiters and Maitre Ds shouldn't be expected to know, that's what the labelling is for on the menu, so passengers and staff don't need to have to know or worry.

 

 

 

 

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[steamboats]

I'm afraid you cannot say Camembert isn't vegetarian, Mozzarella is etc as there are variances. Believe me I do the shopping at home and have to select to ensure I get a vegetarian variant. We've had veggie Camembert (even in France) and avoided some non veggie Mozzarella. So the type of cheese isn't a reliable way of being certain. I know authentic Parmesan cannot be vegetarian and yet that was the cheese included in the dish on the menu last night that started the enquiry and yet that dish was marked as vegetarian and was on the separate vegetarian menu. What's the justification for that? That the customer should know Parmesan cannot be vegetarian so should avoid it?

 

Regarding Camembert and Mozzarella I was speaking of the traditional production methods. Sure there might be vegetarian Camemberts or Mozzarellas which aren´t. But as a vegetarian you should know which products typically may contain meat derivatives. And then you should avoid those. I wouldn´t rely on any labels made by a cruise line (which does not obey any rules of any vegetarian societies - actually in Germany there are approved labels for vegetarian and vegan). I think I saw a photo on here labeling a chicken dish as vegetarian on a cruise ship (don´t remember the cruise line). So I´d never rely on this and the waiter won´t be my first address if I had any doubts.

 

steamboats

[Bo1953]

My take on vegetarian and vegan offerings and understanding, on X, is that they have a 'general' idea of the categories and everything in-between. They opt to go broad and allow the passengers to refine to their preferences/desires when requested before the fact, if the meal is NOT to our desire. (Menu's are generally available the night before and sometimes one gain access to them for the full sailing).

 

This approach is perfectly fine with me. It just means that repeat passengers and individuals who are new to X, need to speak with either the Maitre 'D or waiters up front and get things rolling, instead of waiting, so last minute surprises such as cheese, sauce, soup base and the like can be figured out and known.

 

bon voyage and great gastronomy aboard!

[chamima]

Reading this with interest as I'm a vegetarian and my husband is a vegan.

I've found that even the best intentioned waiters and Maitre Ds have served me food that isn't by any stretch of the imagination vegetarian (for instance - bacon in a vegetable):(

 

I'm hoping this new Dine Aware program will educate the staff better.

[hvbaskey]

Menu's are generally available the night before and sometimes one gain access to them for the full sailing.

 

bon voyage and great gastronomy aboard!

 

I found it a great help to view menus prior to dining. Our last cruise we had requested from MCC, the 10 days worth of Luminae Menus and copies were waiting in our suite. We could then review the menus and also consider dining in Blu, or a Specialty Restaurant, if the choices were not to our liking in any particular evening. Luminae staff have also provided us the “V” MDR options, should we wish to order from the MDR to top up/compliment our “V” selections from Luminae.

 

Remember that Omnivores have more than one selection of entrees to choose from, whereas Vegetarians/Vegans usually only have one selection per menu.

 

We requested many times to have “Vegetable Platters” made from whatever the selection was that night and the staff were quite willing and amicable to customizing meals for us, based on our dining lifestyle.

 

Heather

Edited September 19, 2016 by hvbaskey

[chemmo]

As a non vegetarian perhaps I am missing something....

 

Does this post mean that if I was vegetarian and ordered a vegetarian meal that contained cheese I could be eating meat products?

 

If a meal looks on the menu to be vegetarian but doesn't state it is I would expect the cruiser to question the staff...however, if it is listed as a vegetarian option surely the customer should feel comfortable ordering reassured there is no animal product in what has been ordered...

 

My apologies if I am misreading this post...but if vegetarian symbols are indicated next to a dish shouldn't that mean they do not contain animal product? Also shouldn't wait staff enough know to be able to advise...

[hvbaskey]

As a non vegetarian perhaps I am missing something....

 

Does this post mean that if I was vegetarian and ordered a vegetarian meal that contained cheese I could be eating meat products?

 

If a meal looks on the menu to be vegetarian but doesn't state it is I would expect the cruiser to question the staff...however, if it is listed as a vegetarian option surely the customer should feel comfortable ordering reassured there is no animal product in what has been ordered...

 

My apologies if I am misreading this post...but if vegetarian symbols are indicated next to a dish shouldn't that mean they do not contain animal product? Also shouldn't wait staff enough know to be able to advise...

 

Yes, you have the gist of the conversation - that “shockingly” to many of us, the “V” symbol may not actually be in fact, “V”

[carolslc]

I'm vegetarian and will be cruising on Celebrity in November and shocked that they would mark a menu item as Vegetarian knowing that it contains animal products. It's easy to find vegetarian Parmesan. It's not unreasonable to expect they would stock it and use it when cooking items they are advertising as vegetarian. :-( I honestly wouldn't have thought to ask and would have believed the menu.

[Bo1953]

I found it a great help to view menus prior to dining. Our last cruise we had requested from MCC, the 10 days worth of Luminae Menus and copies were waiting in our suite. We could then review the menus and also consider dining in Blu, or a Specialty Restaurant, if the choices were not to our liking in any particular evening. Luminae staff have also provided us the “V” MDR options, should we wish to order from the MDR to top up/compliment our “V” selections from Luminae.

 

Remember that Omnivores have more than one selection of entrees to choose from, whereas Vegetarians/Vegans usually only have one selection per menu.

 

We requested many times to have “Vegetable Platters” made from whatever the selection was that night and the staff were quite willing and amicable to customizing meals for us, based on our dining lifestyle.

 

Heather

 

 

hb - thank you for sharing your experiences, which closely mirror mine when sailing X. My food choices are 'strict' vs other vegetarians/vegans that it is in my best interest of eating to check out menus up-front as much as possible.

 

This way I have no surprizes. I even do this when on land and dining out, call in advance with requirements and determine if they will accommodate or not.

 

bon voyage and good epicurean delights...

[NordicPrince]

Correct me if I am wrong. but people are allowed to request certain dietary items pre-cruise. You may have to specify exactly what your definition of "vegetarian" is for the cooking staff to know in advance to have your items chosen and prepared to order.

[Bo1953]

Correct me if I am wrong. but people are allowed to request certain dietary items pre-cruise. You may have to specify exactly what your definition of "vegetarian" is for the cooking staff to know in advance to have your items chosen and prepared to order.

 

NP - no correction required ... one can send in a pre-cruise request about dietary 'needs', yet it is advisable upon embarkation, to visit the various eating venues to have a further chat about your request, if you are quite particular about it, as I do.

 

With upwards, potentially, of 15% of the passengers with special request someone will fall between clapboards, for sure. It does not take that long to get done, as opposed to waiting until you sit for a meal to make the request.

 

bon voyage...

[casper106]

In North America,there are many kinds of vegetarian variations.

 

http://www.vegetarian-nation.com/resources/common-questions/types-levels-vegetarian/

 

To put it bluntly ( and this will probably offend),someone who eats a pure vegan diet doesn't eat anything from a source with eyes.

 

It's up to each individual to discuss their specific dietary needs in advance with the maitre d whether it be on a cruise or any other venue. In North America, vegan "cheese" and other products that are meant to be a dairy substitute are readily available.

 

To my way of thinking,the biggest concern I have is cross-contamination whether it be a vegan dish or a gluten free dish. Unless there are separate kitchen prep areas,the chance of cross-contamination always exists.

[Bo1953]

In North America,there are many kinds of vegetarian variations.

 

http://www.vegetarian-nation.com/resources/common-questions/types-levels-vegetarian/

 

To put it bluntly ( and this will probably offend),someone who eats a pure vegan diet doesn't eat anything from a source with eyes.

 

It's up to each individual to discuss their specific dietary needs in advance with the maitre d whether it be on a cruise or any other venue. In North America, vegan "cheese" and other products that are meant to be a dairy substitute are readily available.

 

To my way of thinking,the biggest concern I have is cross-contamination whether it be a vegan dish or a gluten free dish. Unless there are separate kitchen prep areas,the chance of cross-contamination always exists.

 

C1 - cross-contamination is always a challenge when there are other foods being prepared/cooked in close proximity.

 

Fortunately for myself, unless there is direct contact, I do not get upset by it - i.e. grill not cleaned for veggie burgers at Mast Grille is an example, while they do their best, they do not place the burger where meat was just before....

 

I understand that cross-contamination is of greater concern to those with wheat or other debilitating eating challenges or allergies.

 

In full disclosure, I Am vegan for health reasons only for the last 15 years.

 

bon voyage

Edited September 20, 2016 by Bo1953

[attilamom1217]

Kosher cheeses are not made with animal related ferment. They are aged in an artificial rennet inn order to keep the cheese and meat separate. It is an option for vegetarians who eat cheese.

[chamima]

Kosher cheeses are not made with animal related ferment. They are aged in an artificial rennet inn order to keep the cheese and meat separate. It is an option for vegetarians who eat cheese.

 

 

 

And they are widely available wholesale and so , unlike most of the artisan vegetarian cheeses, are affordable for Celebrity.