Tips/Gratuities

[triptolemus]

False premise, the DSC is NOT a tip.

 

DSC is a Gratuity, according to NCL's own promotional materials.

 

When they give FREE GRATUITIES, you receive free Discretionary Service Charge.

 

The only question is, "is a tip a gratuity?"

 

[StknCPA]

Not since I have been cruising in the early 2000s it has not been.

 

DSC: https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

Tips: https://www.ncl.com/faq#tipping

Would a rose by any other name not smell as sweet?

 

It smells most assuredly like a tip.

 

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[Até]

DSC is a Gratuity, according to NCL's own promotional materials.

 

When they give FREE GRATUITIES, you receive free Discretionary Service Charge.

 

Thank you for finding that image, I knew it was out there somewhere. I looked back at my old invoices and they stated "Prepaid service charges". I don't know why NCL continues to try to obfuscate this issue.

[swedish weave]

Calling somet8ing a thing it is not doesn't change it into that. NCL is merely segregating a portion of the cruise fare into a crew incentive program. They could have just as easily funded the program directly from the general cruise fare and lumped it all together in what they charge passengers, however (being a CPA you ought to know this) explicitly identifying revenue for a specific purpose prevents co-mingling of funds and easier tracking of the budget for the identified purpose. The DSC is part of the base pay of crew members per the description provided by NCL, a tip is not.

 

BTW it is fine for anyone to tip any amount to any crew member at any time or even choose not to do so at all (I will never judge anyone for making whatever decision they choose to make about tipping), but to use the DSC as an excuse for not tipping is just that, an excuse.

 

You are mistaken. A tip or gratuity must be voluntary, and when the cruise line managememy seized control of the funds, they called it a DSC in order to avoid legal problems.

[Até]

NCL is merely segregating a portion of the cruise fare into a crew incentive program. They could have just as easily funded the program directly from the general cruise fare and lumped it all together in what they charge passengers, however (being a CPA you ought to know this) explicitly identifying revenue for a specific purpose prevents co-mingling of funds and easier tracking of the budget for the identified purpose. The DSC is part of the base pay of crew members per the description provided by NCL, a tip is not.

 

 

I really think you have this reversed, but the cloud of corporate deception prevails. I believe NCL accounting treats the DSC as a tips rather than including it in taxable salary for employee pay purposes. Otherwise NCL would never offer the possibility of refunding the gratuity, as legally a tip is discretionary.

[swedish weave]

Take a look at http://www.tipssquared.com.

 

That may change some opinions on this subject since it is one of the most litigated subjects in the country.

[NLH Arizona]

Take a look at www.tipssquared.com.

 

That may change some opinions on this subject since it is one of the most litigated subjects in the country.

What does this have to do with cruise lines?

[BirdTravels]

The laundry staff furnish a clean sheet every week, and their job consists of picling up one corner of a wet sheet and placing on a conveyor.

It comes out dried and folded. Same procedure with towels.

How much tip do you suggest they should be tipped for that?

When was the last time you stood in a hot, steamy laundry room for 12 hours straight, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, loading 10,000 napkins a day into drying machines (on small ships, double on big ships), every day, before you move on to sheets, then towels, then dirty underwear.

[swedish weave]

When was the last time you stood in a hot, steamy laundry room for 12 hours straight, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, loading 10,000 napkins a day into drying machines (on small ships, double on big ships), every day, before you move on to sheets, then towels, then dirty underwear.

 

That has nothing to do with the question I asked?

 

I understand your inability to come up with the answer.

[triptolemus]

That has nothing to do with the question I asked?

 

 

That response was the typical "poor, hard working crew" drivel. The equivalent of "think of the children".

 

I don't like the "poor, hard working crew" line because it seems to demand unsolicited pity -- as if the crew have no brains to think for themselves while the cruise line keeps them chained by the ankle to laundry machines and dishwashers.

 

If people think the crew is suffering that bad, they probably shouldn't cruise...but yet, here they are.

[swedish weave]

When was the last time you stood in a hot, steamy laundry room for 12 hours straight, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, loading 10,000 napkins a day into drying machines (on small ships, double on big ships), every day, before you move on to sheets, then towels, then dirty underwear.

 

In order to correct the misinformation, the crew in the laundry work 8 month contracts and their union agreement calls for 10 hours per day or 70 hours per week.

 

The working conditions are spelled out in the contract they agree to.

 

I hope this helps those who access these boards for correct information.

[Até]

How much tip do you suggest they should be tipped for that?

 

Well, here's my response.

 

 

None of us have an idea how NCL compensates it's employees. I also have no idea what NCL does with the monies collected under the DSC but I have to hope it helps, as NCL claims, to compensate all the workers that made my cruise enjoyable. DSC objectors can do their thing and will hopefully tip individuals, but will always come under suspicion of being "cheap" to recover a significant cruise expense. This is NCL's "tip based" business model and if I chose to sail with them I will accept this concept. If enough people decide to remove the DSC then NCL will change their model and basically cruise fares will have to increase to compensate their employees through salary incentives. Until that point those that remove DSC will fall under suspicion about their motive.

[StknCPA]

Calling somet8ing a thing it is not doesn't change it into that. NCL is merely segregating a portion of the cruise fare into a crew incentive program. They could have just as easily funded the program directly from the general cruise fare and lumped it all together in what they charge passengers, however (being a CPA you ought to know this) explicitly identifying revenue for a specific purpose prevents co-mingling of funds and easier tracking of the budget for the identified purpose. The DSC is part of the base pay of crew members per the description provided by NCL, a tip is not.

 

BTW it is fine for anyone to tip any amount to any crew member at any time or even choose not to do so at all (I will never judge anyone for making whatever decision they choose to make about tipping), but to use the DSC as an excuse for not tipping is just that, an excuse.

"...[H]owever (being a CPA you ought to know this) explicitly identifying revenue for a specific purpose prevents co-mingling of funds and easier tracking of the budget for the identified purpose."

 

I disagree with the above, but I'm not all that interested in arguing accounting/budgeting on a cruise discussion board. It's hard not to do so with the "ought to know" thrown in there, but I took a few breaths before responding.

 

I like your thought that people should tip as they see fit.

 

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[swedish weave]

Well, here's my response.

 

 

None of us have an idea how NCL compensates it's employees. I also have no idea what NCL does with the monies collected under the DSC but I have to hope it helps, as NCL claims, to compensate all the workers that made my cruise enjoyable. DSC objectors can do their thing and will hopefully tip individuals, but will always come under suspicion of being "cheap" to recover a significant cruise expense. This is NCL's "tip based" business model and if I chose to sail with them I will accept this concept. If enough people decide to remove the DSC then NCL will change their model and basically cruise fares will have to increase to compensate their employees through salary incentives. Until that point those that remove DSC will fall under suspicion about their motive.

 

I will dispute your first comment because I do know.

 

I have no problem with the way you handle your affairs, and if you choose to suspect those who do not comply with the system, that is also your choice.

 

Not all cruisers choose to ignore the pitfalls of this, so enjoy your cruises.

[swedish weave]

What does this have to do with cruise lines?

 

You should pose your question to the attorneys that are litigating this.

[dekohman]

Why oh why oh why do some people make this so complicated. Gratuity or tip - it's meant as an incentive to provide guests better service. It's broadened to include some behind-the-scenes staff that would typically get nothing from guests. Pay the DSC...if someone goes over and above, feel free to give them more directly.

 

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[fshagan]

You can pay it for me if you feel so strongly. It's my responsibility to tip those that serve me, not behind the scenes which is the cruise lines responsibility. As long as people take on the roll of employer instead of just as a tipper the cruise lines will take advantage.

When' the last time you went into a back room room to tip any body?

 

It is very common for tips to be pooled among workers (at least in the US). The waiter or waitress will split their tips with the bus person, hostess, and bartender. In the NCL system, the workers know the old version of gratuities on the last night, split by $x amount per day per person in your party and placed in little envelopes, is no longer in force. The DSC replaces that old system. So I doubt any of the NCL employees receiving your personal tips are sharing them with the bussers, hostesses or bartenders.

 

But it's mainly a moot point. NCL allows people to adjust or remove the DSC. Except for the "non-tipping culture" people in the UK who now have it rolled into their "all inclusive" fares (and those is Oz too, maybe?)

[fshagan]

I really think you have this reversed, but the cloud of corporate deception prevails. I believe NCL accounting treats the DSC as a tips rather than including it in taxable salary for employee pay purposes. Otherwise NCL would never offer the possibility of refunding the gratuity, as legally a tip is discretionary.

 

There is no advantage to NCL to "pay their staff" with tips to avoid taxes.

 

They don't pay US corporate income taxes on any cruise-related income at all. No American-based cruise line does.

 

The only people who benefit from having some of the wages as tips are people from countries where tip income is not taxed at all ... like the Philippines. Their governments have decided to not tax tip income to encourage people to take service jobs, that pay well, and can support their families at home with money earned abroad.

 

The split between wages and tips has no benefit to the cruise line. It does for some of the workers, depending on their home country's tax rules.

[NLH Arizona]

 

None of us have an idea how NCL compensates it's employees.

You are so correct; only NCL and their employees know how the compensation works. Folks can say they know, because some one told them ;) ;), but unless they work for NCL, I doubt they are getting what is really happening.

[NLH Arizona]

Except for the "non-tipping culture" people in the UK who now have it rolled into their "all inclusive" fares (and those is Oz too, maybe?)

And let's hope that they find this so successful, that they roll it out to the rest of the countries, including the US.

[swedish weave]

You are so correct; only NCL and their employees know how the compensation works. Folks can say they know, because some one told them ;) ;), but unless they work for NCL, I doubt they are getting what is really happening.

 

How about someone who helps crew members with financial advice?

 

They willingly furnish information.

[NLH Arizona]

How about someone who helps crew members with financial advice?

 

They willingly furnish information.

Sure, if you say so and I'd bet those that furnish you this information are the ones you give those cash tips to!!! Wasn't it PT Barnum who said....well, never mind. Edited July 16, 2017 by NLH Arizona

[swedish weave]

Sure, if you say so and I'd bet those that furnish you this information are the ones you give those cash tips to!!! Wasn't it PT Barnum who said....well, never mind.

 

Don't make your bets more than you can afford to lose because you won't get the details from me.

 

I can't recall any time you have accepted the facts I post even when I have furnished positive proof.

[sanger727]

The DSC is part of the base pay of crew members per the description provided by NCL, a tip is not.

 

 

 

.

 

 

And restaurants in the US are permitted to pay their servers $2 an hour because they are second class citizens? No, because it's understood that they will be tipped by customers and they are permitted to take this in consideration as part of their base pay. Something being voluntary or not does not define a tip - many restaurants charge a 18% gratuity on large parties; its printed on the menu and good luck having that removed. Something being used as part of the base pay does not define a tip - as demonstrated by a lower minimum wage for tipped employees.

 

You are creating an issue that doesn't exist. When people ask about tipping they are asking what their 'obligations' are towards the crew. NCL is clear that the DSC is the minimum obligation and anything above and beyond that is no expected. Trying to convince people that the DSC is not their obligated gratuity makes them feel as though they need to pay that and tip everyone they come into contact with which is simply not the case.

 

 

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[Barb Nahoumi]

If you are in a Haven cabin, the butler and concierge get tipped.

 

And if your children go to Splash Academy, the counselors should get tipped. They are not part of the DSC pool.