Is it time carnival goes mega ship?

[BNBR]

You - and more so BNBR - have spent numerous posts trying to convince those who said they choose not to sail on the Oasis that they are wrong and that it's the best thing afloat. And quite often including little digs to denigrate the other person's opinion/preferences.

 

I'm referring to posts #7, #12, #25. #36, #40, #48, #67, #68, #69, #72, #82, #86, #105 There are more but I'm up to page 7 and getting bored.

 

So while you say that "everyone's preferences are equally valid." It's clear from what you write that this is not the case.

 

I get it - you love the Oasis and ships like that. Enjoy sailing on them. I and many others will not be joining you because that's not the experience we seek. I have no problem with change, but some changes I see as for the better - for me, personally. When that happens, I explore alternative options.

 

The 2 of you, and perhaps others, seem to be convinced that Carnival is doomed if they don't follow suit. Perhaps this is true, but Carnival seems to be doing something right, so I'll leave that decision up to them. It has no effect on me whatsoever.

 

I'm done here. The popcorn is all gone and I have better things to do. I'll leave you the last word. I'm sure you'll take it.

 

I don't think anyone is "wrong" for preferring one over the other. You have chosen to read it that way and that's ok. I'm happy to point out when people say wrong or inaccurate things. If someone makes the comment "Oasis is dumb because they have a rock wall and flowrider because I can do those in port" .... it comes off as ridiculous considering that same person sails on ships that have equally innocuous activities and doesn't hold the other ships to the same standard. It tends to come off as simply irrational and looking more like brand worship. Sure, you don't like big ships, then say you don't like it... but when you give a reason why and it's either factual incorrect or simply incoherent, don't be offended if others point that out.

 

As for thinking Carnival needs to go mega, I wouldn't call that simply opinion. The difference in stock prices between Royal and Carnival seem to clearly suggest that the bigger mega ships are a far more profitable venture. And it's not some hatred for Carnival, I would LOVE to see a Carnival mega ship because I think they would totally knock it out of the park. I'm tired of just one company doing it their way, let's get some variety.

 

And by the way, the title of the thread is "Is it time carnival goes mega ships" - would you not expect some posters who like mega ships to try and champion mega ships?

 

Ciao.

Edited July 28, 2017 by BNBR

[BNBR]

As for the Disney Dream class, that won't be on our radar until we have grand kids to spoil. While we loved the Disney Magic and Wonder our kids were between the ages of 4 and 10 when we sailed them. The perfect age to get the most out of the Disney experience. I have a real hard time paying the Disney premium without the kids to share it with. Maybe in another 10 years or so :D.

 

Does the Disney experience add THAT much to the overall experience? I have a 3 and 5 year old, but haven't been that drawn to Disney cruises. We visit Disney World a couple times a year, do you think that's enough or is the cruise experience just on a totally different level for kids that age, especially in comparison to Royal and Carnival?

[bUU]

You - and more so BNBR - have spent numerous posts trying to convince those who said they choose not to sail on the Oasis that they are wrong and that it's the best thing afloat.

That is absolute and total nonsense. I haven't said Word One in favor of Oasis. I have talked about big ships and small ships, and about business models and marketing - not about what ships are good or bad for passengers.

 

You're just making stuff up now.

 

So while you say that "everyone's preferences are equally valid." It's clear from what you write that this is not the case.

The only thing that's clear is that you're making up things to be upset about. I won't speak for BNBR, but with regard to me, you're prevaricating. My message is very consistent: The cruise lines are going down a path. I say nothing about whether being happy or sad about that is a good or bad thing. I have no interest in trafficking in such a discussion.

[Warm Breezes]

Does the Disney experience add THAT much to the overall experience? I have a 3 and 5 year old, but haven't been that drawn to Disney cruises. We visit Disney World a couple times a year, do you think that's enough or is the cruise experience just on a totally different level for kids that age, especially in comparison to Royal and Carnival?

 

The Disney experience certainly adds to it. But IMHO Castaway Cay is the best private island we have been to and Disney Palo the best restaurant we have eaten in, land or sea. The entertainment was, well Disney and the food, service, and room size some of the best we have had on all our cruises. But the Disney experience puts it over the edge in making it worth the high premium to us...if we had kids to share it with. But that is just our opinion.

 

Our very first cruise was on Disney Wonder in 2001. It was a 3 day cruise combined with 4 day Disney World. My kids were 4 and 7 and we went with family friends who also had kids that were 4 and 7. I have so many wonderful memories from that trip. The only down-side was the cruise was too short. In 2004 we were planning a vacation again with the same family. We asked the kids, who were 7 and 10 at the time if they wanted to 7 night Disney World or a 7 night cruise. It was unanimous. Everyone wanted the cruise so Disney Magic it was. Those were our 2 most expensive vacations we have ever taken either before then or since. I don't regret them for a moment....but I won't repeat the expense without the kids to share it with.

[Alaskan Joe]

As for "Mega Ships" My wife and I have only been on one, "Oasis of the Seas". We did not feel over crowed with people, you hardly knew that there was so many people. Like one of the post I read, RCCL has it right. They have shows spaced out time wise, location wise ect. so the crowds are all over the ship instead of one spot. In fact when we sailed you had to sign up for your shows day/time. This guaranteed a seat in the show, but you had to come early if you wanted a choice of seat. I will say this, the welcome show they did was not in the main theater rather in the heart of the ship were all the shops were. This was the only time I felt crowed. For us the extra $$ for a mega ship was almost to much, however as for actives we never stopped. If you do a mega ship that does mega stuff such as extra entertainment you are will need a vacation from your vacation.

[FLSteve11]

Perhaps - I don't claim to be a marketing expert like some in this discussion seem to think they are.

 

I don't know about other luxury lines because I haven't researched them, but a comparison of the Carnival Pride - which is not a huge ship - shows:

Carnival Pride

Tonnage: 88,500 GT Length: 963 ft (294 m) Beam: 106 ft (32 m) Draft: 25.5 ft (7.8 m) Decks: 12 decks

Viking Sea

Tonnage: 47,800 GT Length: 227.20 m (745.4 ft) Beam: 28.80 m (94.5 ft) Draught: 6.30 m (20.7 ft) Decks: 14

So the Viking Sea is considerably smaller - so not the same amount of space. It carries 930 passengers, while the Pride holds 2124.

 

The Viking experience is what you pay for - as well all that extra space.

 

I know fully well that Carnival, RCCI and NCL are not in that category - just saying that it is an option, for us anyway, and it's an experience we prefer going forward. And definitely an experience we prefer over an Oasis type ship. I also fully realize that it's not for everyone, but to hear some tell it their preference is the ONLY option out there.

 

We do a lot of traveling and have 1 Carnival cruise, 1 Viking Ocean cruise, 1 Viking river cruise and a fly in and stay trip to Bermuda booked.

 

Yes. Nothing wrong with the Viking ship, I've heard great things about it. Hopefully I'll sail it sometime (though will likely be down the road, after DD is done with schooling and such). Viking is definitely not a mass market line though. It's a luxury line, and quite a good one it seems. (Is there a bad luxury line though, come to think of it :) )

 

It's definitely available. That's what the luxury lines are more towards (outside of Cunard's big ships), smaller, more intimate, luxurious, with some neat features that aren't water slides and such. There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking smaller ships, it's just not what the larger mass market lines are doing anymore. We loved our Avalon river cruise last year, and hope to do more of them. Probably will try another next year. We sail a mix of "smaller" ships and mega ships (though enjoy the larger ones overall when with family). Once DD is done, we'll likely try out more of those smaller, nicer ships. The price on those is a lot higher as well, it's definitely not a mass-market experience.

 

You do notice that none of the mass market lines are building anything even as small as the Pride anymore either (since we were talking about new builds, not older ships). At best they might bring back an older, smaller ship and retro fit it (like Fathom was, or Empress of the Seas, really only back to go to Cuba's shallower harbors).

[BNBR]

The Disney experience certainly adds to it. But IMHO Castaway Cay is the best private island we have been to and Disney Palo the best restaurant we have eaten in, land or sea. The entertainment was, well Disney and the food, service, and room size some of the best we have had on all our cruises. But the Disney experience puts it over the edge in making it worth the high premium to us...if we had kids to share it with. But that is just our opinion.

 

Our very first cruise was on Disney Wonder in 2001. It was a 3 day cruise combined with 4 day Disney World. My kids were 4 and 7 and we went with family friends who also had kids that were 4 and 7. I have so many wonderful memories from that trip. The only down-side was the cruise was too short. In 2004 we were planning a vacation again with the same family. We asked the kids, who were 7 and 10 at the time if they wanted to 7 night Disney World or a 7 night cruise. It was unanimous. Everyone wanted the cruise so Disney Magic it was. Those were our 2 most expensive vacations we have ever taken either before then or since. I don't regret them for a moment....but I won't repeat the expense without the kids to share it with.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I have a feeling we'll give a Disney cruise a try within the next few years. We love taking our camper to the Disney campground for a week, maybe next time around we'll do a cruise instead.

[BNBR]

Yes. Nothing wrong with the Viking ship, I've heard great things about it. Hopefully I'll sail it sometime (though will likely be down the road, after DD is done with schooling and such). Viking is definitely not a mass market line though. It's a luxury line, and quite a good one it seems. (Is there a bad luxury line though, come to think of it :) )

 

It's definitely available. That's what the luxury lines are more towards (outside of Cunard's big ships), smaller, more intimate, luxurious, with some neat features that aren't water slides and such. There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking smaller ships, it's just not what the larger mass market lines are doing anymore. We loved our Avalon river cruise last year, and hope to do more of them. Probably will try another next year. We sail a mix of "smaller" ships and mega ships (though enjoy the larger ones overall when with family). Once DD is done, we'll likely try out more of those smaller, nicer ships. The price on those is a lot higher as well, it's definitely not a mass-market experience.

 

You do notice that none of the mass market lines are building anything even as small as the Pride anymore either (since we were talking about new builds, not older ships). At best they might bring back an older, smaller ship and retro fit it (like Fathom was, or Empress of the Seas, really only back to go to Cuba's shallower harbors).

 

We had a Viking ship next to us in San Juan when we were on Glory. I didn't think it "looked" a whole lot smaller, though apparently it is half the size. I think the size of the Viking ship is probably right for the more intimate/luxury cruise experience. The main comparison we come up with is suite class on the mass market lines. MSC Yacht Club, NCL Haven, etc. They seem to offer that luxury experience but you can walk outside the luxury bubble for additional entertainment. I worry that we would get bored on the smaller luxury only lines, though you never know until you try it. I'm sure we'll give Viking or Seabourn a shot at some point.

[FLSteve11]

Thanks for you input. Every thing I have read on the Escape has really made me look forward to sailing on her...and I agree the Epic was pretty smoky but I'm kind of sensitive to the smoke and have felt that way about almost every ship casino except on the elegant nights on Princess where it was smoke free. I'm looking forward to the shows on the Escape. My DD was a competitive dancer for 9 years so I am used to, and like, almost all styles of music though we find ourselves critiquing a lot of the dancing in the shows out of habit :o.

 

As for the Fantasy we got a great casino deal on it. We paid less than 1/4 what we are paying for our NCL Escape cruise so I am going into that with much different expectations. While we are expecting the better entertainment and hopefully better food (since we have 4 SDP for one of our promo's) on Escape we are happy with less entertainment and good food on Carnival for the price we paid. I'm thinking our Fantasy cruise will be our restful/relaxing cruise and NCL will be our drinking and partying cruise (we have UBP for our other promo). We have no trouble enjoying either type of cruise.

 

Someday we will do the RCL Oasis class...may not be next year as the 11 night Breakaway looks really good to me. We sailed out of NY to Canada last year on our anniversary in October on CCL Sunshine. We got really lucky and hit Indian Summer. It was in the upper 80's on our sail away and many people were caught with just colder weather gear and lugging around sweat shirts and jackets, while in long sleeves, and sweating away. Luckily I was watching the weather and threw in some much lighter clothes for us. I was sitting out on the Serenity Deck in my Swimsuit :cool: .It was a different story on our way back into port so we are well aware of the what the weather can do that time of year.

 

As for the Disney Dream class, that won't be on our radar until we have grand kids to spoil. While we loved the Disney Magic and Wonder our kids were between the ages of 4 and 10 when we sailed them. The perfect age to get the most out of the Disney experience. I have a real hard time paying the Disney premium without the kids to share it with. Maybe in another 10 years or so :D.

 

I thought it was my favorite NCL ships out of the 8 cruises I've done on them (6 different ships). I liked the crew, I liked the newer areas, and it seemed a bit better spaced out. It's still a little smoky (compared to other lines), but not bad. Certainly not like Epic was. After Midnight wasn't awful, but should have been a 45 minute show (I know it's pulled off broadway). Most people don't go for big band music for that long, since you don't know any of the songs. At that point a lot of people left. The Bray Pack show was a lot of fun though (and 80s tunes). We do the SDP choice too. We drink 1-3 drinks a day so packages aren't worth it for us.

 

Fantasy is fine, just a big letdown in what we normally see. Like I said, I don't think it's Carnival (since we've sailed them enough), but more the ship and sailing.

 

Oasis is awesome overall. Many things to do and even better entertainment then NCL mega ship. (Food is ok, not bad, but nothing special, in the MDR. Depends on the cook really) We sailed Breakaway for Thanksgiving, so it was definitely cool leaving and coming abck to NY.

 

That works. We've done Disney 3 times, it's too expensive for us to do it more. Maybe when the new class of ships come out (or if there is a good Florida resident sale, which pops up for them sometimes) we'll go again.

[FLSteve11]

The Disney experience certainly adds to it. But IMHO Castaway Cay is the best private island we have been to and Disney Palo the best restaurant we have eaten in, land or sea. The entertainment was, well Disney and the food, service, and room size some of the best we have had on all our cruises. But the Disney experience puts it over the edge in making it worth the high premium to us...if we had kids to share it with. But that is just our opinion.

 

Our very first cruise was on Disney Wonder in 2001. It was a 3 day cruise combined with 4 day Disney World. My kids were 4 and 7 and we went with family friends who also had kids that were 4 and 7. I have so many wonderful memories from that trip. The only down-side was the cruise was too short. In 2004 we were planning a vacation again with the same family. We asked the kids, who were 7 and 10 at the time if they wanted to 7 night Disney World or a 7 night cruise. It was unanimous. Everyone wanted the cruise so Disney Magic it was. Those were our 2 most expensive vacations we have ever taken either before then or since. I don't regret them for a moment....but I won't repeat the expense without the kids to share it with.

 

I agree with you. Castaway Cay, it's a great island! Well laid out, lots of activities, just a lot of fun. One of the first to have a dock too instead of tendering. The shows are very well done, but they are "Disney" shows, off-shoots of their movies and songs. If you hate Disney movies, you won't like them. If you at least don't mind them, they're very enjoyable. They have the best cabins (outside of the very cheapest inside), big with split bathrooms and a tub in each one (for kids). The buffet is really good (come on, crab legs and shrimp at the lunch buffet, how can you go wrong?). I really enjoyed the 3 MDR (you rotate between them, and your wait staff rotates with you, so you keep them). There are just many nice touches to the whole ship. They also have one of the best adult areas onboard, the whole back of one deck becomes adult only pubs, lounges, etc

 

But it IS expensive! If you have young kids, particularly girls, it's hard to beat. You pay for it though. :)

[Thorncroft]

I think they might hold more people though, or about the same amount. Not saying that's a good thing though. More people on a smaller ship.

 

I believe that the difference in capacity is only about 200 passengers. 5400 Oasis vs 5200 Carnival TBA. Something like that, but on a ship that's the equivalent of the Holiday smaller. Leave your notions about personal space at the dock.

[jimbo5544]

Warm chocolate melting cake or Bitter n Blanc?

 

 

 

Ha!

 

 

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[kalaniiwow]

My very first cruise was on Carnival Triumph in 2000. I believe at the time it was one of the 'mega' ships. Maybe not the biggest, but definitely up there. I've since sailed on a few other ships including Allure and I've NEVER felt as crowded as I did on Carnival Triumph. Oasis class is definitely my favorite that I've ever been on. I've sailed Allure twice and my husband and I are sailing it again in April. The ship is huge, but even on a sold out sailing in July I never felt crowded (the one exception being trying to get to the elevators right after the muster drill).

 

I also found Allure easy to navigate and never felt like I was walking for ages to get anywhere.

 

If you haven't been on the ship, give it a shot before nay-saying too much. You might like it :)

[Gloworm2]

I do like the bigger ships. Newer with more modern amenities. Wifi works better. More things to do with new slides, escape room, and such. More entertainment options. Harmony currently the largest ship has multiple Night clubs, dedicated comedy and jazz clubs, multiple pools, and more places to dine than you can use for a 7 night cruise. I doubt I will ever go on a smaller ship again

 

 

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[BNBR]

The ship is huge, but even on a sold out sailing in July I never felt crowded (the one exception being trying to get to the elevators right after the muster drill).

 

When all the up elevators are packed and you can't get on one after muster or show lets out... the trick is to hop on a down elevator then ride it back up :)

[Dave0311]

They've mentioned a few times during the future cruise sales events that one of the things they're proud of is the ships have a similar layout across the fleet. This way someone who doesn't cruise often will have a familiarity to the cruise ship and will make it easier to orient themselves on a new ship. I'm glad they're supposed to be doing a new plan for the new larger ships, one of the things I like about trying out ships in different fleets is getting a new experience. It's one of the reasons we don't stick to one line (they all have their plus's and minus's after all).

While I do hope Carnival offers some brand new ship designs, I do love the fact that I can walk on to any Carnival ship and instantly know my way around. It's very helpful! :cool:

 

Also, I think the Italian shipyard Fincantieri is not as skilled in large cruise ship design/construction as yards like Meyer Werft/STX so Carnival keeps its designs derivative and evolutionary to prevent major problems. Aida had problems with their latest prototype ships being built in Japan (they were late being delivered and had huge cost overruns). When Royal Princess was being built in 2012/2013 there were issues as it was being built since it was a new design. Even when the Destiny was being built in the 90's there were issues with its construction and even years later it still had issues which was part of the reason why it underwent a massive refurbishment into the Sunshine and most of the ship was gutted.

 

I don't think it's any coincidence that the new design is being built in Finland and I don't think it'll be the last. The Fantasy and Spirit classes were built in Finland and are considered to be the best ships in the Carnival fleet by many; from an overall design and quality aspect. The new Carnival ship will look very similar to the Aida new build, minus the eyes and lips. Haha.

I agree. Spirit class is my favorite. I hope the new shipyard has a good layout for the new ships!

[bury me at sea]

My simple answer to the original question is that it is probably to certainly best for Carnival's bottom line to build bigger, fancier ships that offer more of everything.

 

For my own preference I hope only that Carnival continues to home port a Dream class ship in Galveston.

 

No disparagement meant to all of those who want bigger. I hope we all continue to enjoy cruising at a price that is comfortable.

[Bllybb758]

All they need to do is figure how to move the galley room and split it between two and make a pathway between the two.

[EBFURR]

Please, no. We have been loyal to RCI for a long time, mostly out of habit. We do not like the latest mega ships. A lot of people do, mostly for the "wow" factor. Okay, fine, but we have also been to big hotels in Las Vegas with the same "wow" factor. That is the same feeling we get from those big, inward facing ships - that we are inside a nice hotel lobby. It is cool, but we can do that on land. We cruise for the sea going experience. We just started with Carnival and their ships feel like much larger versions of the "classic" cruise ship. Plenty of ocean views and outside areas. We understand that a lot of people love that RCI mega ship experience, but we hope Carnival continues to deliver what they are doing now. It has renewed our enthusiasm. Newer? Yes. Bigger? Maybe a little, but please don't lose that cruise ship feel in favor of inward facing rooms and venues. Just our 2 cents.

[ryano]

Maybe a little, but please don't lose that cruise ship feel in favor of inward facing rooms and venues. Just our 2 cents.

 

I honestly dont think you will ever have to worry about that on Carnival. Voyager class and up feels like that because of the Royal Promenade on Voyager and Freedom class and the Royal Promenade and neighborhoods on Oasis class. I dont think you will ever see Carnival build a ship with a Royal Promenade or "neighborhoods" running down the middle of it. :)

[Bllybb758]

Please, no. We have been loyal to RCI for a long time, mostly out of habit. We do not like the latest mega ships. A lot of people do, mostly for the "wow" factor. Okay, fine, but we have also been to big hotels in Las Vegas with the same "wow" factor. That is the same feeling we get from those big, inward facing ships - that we are inside a nice hotel lobby. It is cool, but we can do that on land. We cruise for the sea going experience. We just started with Carnival and their ships feel like much larger versions of the "classic" cruise ship. Plenty of ocean views and outside areas. We understand that a lot of people love that RCI mega ship experience, but we hope Carnival continues to deliver what they are doing now. It has renewed our enthusiasm. Newer? Yes. Bigger? Maybe a little, but please don't lose that cruise ship feel in favor of inward facing rooms and venues. Just our 2 cents.

 

 

 

I am hoping they go like length wise and not width. I would like to see a ship like Carnival Cruise Lines: Dream was. It felt spacious I wasn’t talking about a inside balcony — that seems stupid to me actually.

[Nyc2tropics]

I agree with OP. Don't get me wrong carnival ships are nice but they are a similar layout from destiny to breeze.

 

 

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[glrounds]

Everytime a thread about bigger ships come up, all I can think of is:

 

Molly Brown: Hey, uh, who thought of the name Titanic? Was it you, Bruce?

J. Bruce Ismay: Yes, actually. I want to convey sheer size, and size means stability, luxury, and above all, strength.

Rose DeWitt Bukater: Do you know of Dr. Freud, Mr Ismay? His ideas about the male preoccupation with size might be of particular interest to you.

Sorry, couldn't resist. We all cruise and choose ships for different reasons. I'm happy with just about any ship. Fantasy sized ships were nice and comfy, Pride was roomy and comfy. Been on Explorer and Grandeur, but haven't tried the bigger ships. If the price and timing were right, I may give them a whirl, but it's not a "have to" for me. Of course we have cruisers that want bigger, newer, more choices, etc. That's what makes them happy too.

 

Excellent, Sammee :D

Without the much higher costs associated with them, I'd give them a try. Without a doubt to those that care, ships with the same BASIC layout over the years is good for familiarity, but "familiarity breeds contempt" in some cases. As long as Carnival can keep the costs down I'll stay with Carnival (running out of time anyway).:)

[bUU]

Without a doubt to those that care, ships with the same BASIC layout over the years is good for familiarity, but "familiarity breeds contempt" in some cases.

Without a doubt, which is why we see so many, out-of-proportion, "XXX has gone downhill!" exhortations.

[CruisingUS]

Vista class is in no way remotely a "mega ship". It's the same size as Dream. Consider Royal's Voyager of the seas, entered service TWENTY YEARS AGO is bigger than Vista.

 

Carnival is clearly not interested in the mega ship category yet, and seems content with the smaller ultra-budget approach... which isn't working and you know it's not working by simply comparing Carnival and Royal's stock prices. Carnival desperately needs an Oasis style mega ship, and how exciting would that be. I have a ton of faith that they could pull of something possibly better than Oasis.

My question is if it is too late for Carnival. They missed the boat ;) on being the first one w/ those line of ships. I'd be concerned about them being to fill up a ship since their customer is accustomed to lower price points.