Help choosing UK cruise

[hiccups]

Also, while our Azamara cruise was a bit pricey compared to mainstream lines (although it included more, like alcohol and gratuities), one nice feature of Azamara is that they have long port times. We booked some long (8 hour) private tours with no worries about getting back in time. Someone mentioned Busy Bus earlier, and they have several tours from various U.K. ports.

[smm0218]

12 day Royal Princess cruise - Dublin Overnight (appears no Wales although they do have a shorter cruise that does include Wales May, Jun, Aug):

Southampton; Guernsey (St. Peter Port); Cork, (Cobh); Dublin (2 days); Belfast; Glasgow (Greenock); Invergordon; Edinburgh (South Queensferry); Paris/Normandy (Le Havre), France; Southampton

 

 

12 day Royal Princess cruise (includes Kirkwall, May June, Aug)

 

Southampton; Guernsey (St. Peter Port); Cork; Dublin; Belfast; Glasgow (Greenock); Orkney Islands (Kirkwall); Invergordon; Edinburgh (South Queensferry); Paris/Normandy (Le Havre), France; Southampton

 

 

12 day Royal Princess cruise - With Liverpool (June, July & Aug, so probably lots of kids)

 

Southampton; Guernsey (St. Peter Port); Cork, (Cobh); Dublin; Liverpool; Belfast; Glasgow (Greenock); Invergordon; Edinburgh (South Queensferry); Paris/Normandy (Le Havre), France; Southampton

 

 

12 day NCL Jade (again it appears no Wales, May & Sept)

Southampton, Guernsey, Portland, England Cork (Cobh), Ireland, Dublin, Glasgow (Greenock), Kirkwall, Orkney Isles , Inverness (Invergordon), Edinburgh (Newhaven), Newcastle (Tyne), England, Southampton (London)

 

RCI Brillance of the Sea (July)

Amsterdam, Edinburgh, Inverness, Greenock (Glasglow), Dublin (2 days), Holyhead, WALES, Cork (Cobh), Guernsey, Amsterdam

 

Celebrity Eclipse - British Open cruise (July)

Amsterdam, Zeebrugge, Belgium, Cobh (Cork), Waterford, Dublin, Liverpool, Newhaven (Edinburgh 2 days ), Dover Amsterdam

 

It looks like the Princess with Liverpool hits the ports we'd like but really not crazy about the dates. Also Royal is bigger than I think we'd like and I think I read they have eliminated the all the way around the ship promenade desk? I really enjoyed that on the Pearl, usually 2-3 miles a day.

[smm0218]

Oceania, Azamara & MSC. Either price, itinerary or date make then back burner options. Cunard has an itinerary I liked but I think we'd hate the ship.

[smm0218]

2 more dumb questions.

 

Smoking in public places and coaches (buses) and trains - allowed?

 

Do you go through customs/immigration when we stop in the different countries (Northern Ireland) it sticks in my mind that since they are part of UK, maybe not but I'm not as current as I should be - yet.

[hiccups]

Oceania, Azamara & MSC. Either price, itinerary or date make then back burner options. Cunard has an itinerary I liked but I think we'd hate the ship.

 

If any of these itineraries would be a consideration but aren't in the price range you want, I'd check again in a few days and see if they are better priced after September 1, as the current sales expire on August 31st.

 

Just an FYI, Oceania has three price levels. They quote a "cruise only" price, and then another price with airfare and O Life. You can also take the price with airfare and O Life and then get an air credit, which is generally about $800 PP.

[GrJ Berkshire]

To reply to 29 smoking is not allowed on any form of public transport, coaches, buses or trains or in railway stations. In public places now very restricted so in no restaurants, cafés, pubs and in many open areas also restricted. Smoking in the UK now is seen as anti-social and frowned upon.

[threetowner16]

To reply to 29 smoking is not allowed on any form of public transport, coaches, buses or trains or in railway stations. In public places now very restricted so in no restaurants, cafés, pubs and in many open areas also restricted. Smoking in the UK now is seen as anti-social and frowned upon.

 

And heavily taxed a pack of 20 is around USD10/12

 

No immigration between any of the countries of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

[John Bull]

2 more dumb questions.

 

Smoking in public places and coaches (buses) and trains - allowed?

 

Do you go through customs/immigration when we stop in the different countries (Northern Ireland) it sticks in my mind that since they are part of UK, maybe not but I'm not as current as I should be - yet.

 

 

The UK is pretty tough on smoking.

No smoking on public transport - buses, taxis, trains, tour vans, etc or even in train or tube stations.

No smoking indoors in public places - pubs, restaurants, shops, indoor malls, offices, cinemas, casinos, nightclubs etc.

Nor within (5?) metres of entrances, though that's not strictly enforced.

Pubs mainly provide sheltered designated smoking areas in their pub gardens.

No smoking indoors in public areas of hotels. Smoking in your hotel room isn't banned by law (it's treated as your home) but very very few hotels permit it in any rooms. Ditto with rental cars.

 

Northern Ireland is in the UK, just like England, Scotland & Wales so no need for passports once you've arrived in the UK.

Ditto for Ireland (aka the Irish Republic or Eire or whatever you may call it) because the UK and Eire have their own mini version of continental Europe's Schengen open borders. So the UK & Eire have controlled external borders (borders with other European & world countries) but an open border between the two. In due course that might change with Brexit, but certainly not within the next year or two.

 

The Channel Islands have a complicated history.

Since they were part of the Duchy of Normandy before William invaded England and became a part of William's overseas territory, the Channel Islanders claim that England was the first of their colonies rather than the other way round :cool:

Altho they're part of the UK I have to show my passport to travel there by air or ferry, but I'm 99% certain that cruise passengers have dispensation.

Ditto for France.

 

JB :)

[smm0218]

Great, I was hoping the smoking laws were like here and the less we have to deal with passports the better.

 

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Forums mobile app

[Cotswold Eagle]

 

 

 

The Channel Islands have a complicated history.

 

...

 

Altho they're part of the UK I have to show my passport to travel there by air or ferry, but I'm 99% certain that cruise passengers have dispensation.

 

.

 

 

 

JB :)

 

 

Just to be pedantic ([emoji41]) the Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom, they are Crown Dependencies (and therefore territories for which the UK is responsible).

 

 

 

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[pickypicky]

Just a ditto to the suggestion of Azamara or another small cruise line. We are booked for July 2018 British Isles on Azamara. I eliminated every other line, mostly due to itinerary. As hiccups previously mentioned, there will be few to no children. And, if it interests you, alcohol is included, as well as gratuities. We have decided to book an Ocean View this time, due to the high prices. I think this cruise is a good one to do a test drive on the OV, since we've never had less than a balcony. I'm actually pretty excited about our location near guest services.

[leongcpa]

The Channel Islands have a complicated history.

Since they were part of the Duchy of Normandy before William invaded England and became a part of William's overseas territory, the Channel Islanders claim that England was the first of their colonies rather than the other way round :cool:

Altho they're part of the UK I have to show my passport to travel there by air or ferry, but I'm 99% certain that cruise passengers have dispensation.

Ditto for France.

 

JB :)

 

Also, the pound currency from the Channel Islands is not legal tender in other parts of the UK.....

 

Note: We didn't have to show our passport coming off the Caribbean Princess in May in Guernsey.....

[smm0218]

Azamara looks amazing but I only see one British cruise and it is way out of our price range, even for a once in a lifetime trip.

[hiccups]

Azamara looks amazing but I only see one British cruise and it is way out of our price range, even for a once in a lifetime trip.

 

I hear you! The only reason we did Azamara for the British Isles was because my husband is a golfer, and participated in the PerryGolf option. He played six courses and went to the finals of the British Open--dream trip for him!

 

Because of the price, although we are balcony people, we got an OV cabin and were very happy with it. However, I would NOT recommend one of the forward cabins below the theater--too noisy from the show, and there was also noise/vibration when docking/tendering. For our next Azamara cruise (which was a very good price), we booked a cabin near guest services. I was surprised we didn't miss the balcony at all--weather wasn't warm enough most of the time to use it, IMO.

 

The rumor is that starting tomorrow, Azamara's promotion will be a two category upgrade--pay for an inside cabin and get a veranda. I'd check the website over the next couple days and see if that cruise is eligible.

 

Also, if you don't use a TA, I'd suggest booking with one just to get some extras. We got a $1000 rebate check and $400 OBC from our TA for the Azamara British Open cruise. For our next cruise, because we got such a great price, we aren't getting very much--just $300 OBC from the TA.

[hiccups]

Azamara looks amazing but I only see one British cruise and it is way out of our price range, even for a once in a lifetime trip.

 

Wow, I just looked at next year's British Open trip on Azamara... they have raised the price since the last time I checked, even though it's "on sale." When I looked at its price back in July, before we went on our cruise, for an OV cabin it started at about $4400 PP. Still pricey, but much less than we paid for our 2017 British Open cruise. Because of the PerryGolf option, this itinerary is pretty popular, so Azamara doesn't have to discount it as much as some other cruises.

[threetowner16]

12 day Royal Princess cruise - Dublin Overnight (appears no Wales although they do have a shorter cruise that does include Wales May, Jun, Aug):

Southampton; Guernsey (St. Peter Port); Cork, (Cobh); Dublin (2 days); Belfast; Glasgow (Greenock); Invergordon; Edinburgh (South Queensferry); Paris/Normandy (Le Havre), France; Southampton

 

 

12 day Royal Princess cruise (includes Kirkwall, May June, Aug)

 

Southampton; Guernsey (St. Peter Port); Cork; Dublin; Belfast; Glasgow (Greenock); Orkney Islands (Kirkwall); Invergordon; Edinburgh (South Queensferry); Paris/Normandy (Le Havre), France; Southampton

 

 

12 day Royal Princess cruise - With Liverpool (June, July & Aug, so probably lots of kids)

 

Southampton; Guernsey (St. Peter Port); Cork, (Cobh); Dublin; Liverpool; Belfast; Glasgow (Greenock); Invergordon; Edinburgh (South Queensferry); Paris/Normandy (Le Havre), France; Southampton

 

 

12 day NCL Jade (again it appears no Wales, May & Sept)

Southampton, Guernsey, Portland, England Cork (Cobh), Ireland, Dublin, Glasgow (Greenock), Kirkwall, Orkney Isles , Inverness (Invergordon), Edinburgh (Newhaven), Newcastle (Tyne), England, Southampton (London)

 

RCI Brillance of the Sea (July)

Amsterdam, Edinburgh, Inverness, Greenock (Glasglow), Dublin (2 days), Holyhead, WALES, Cork (Cobh), Guernsey, Amsterdam

 

Celebrity Eclipse - British Open cruise (July)

Amsterdam, Zeebrugge, Belgium, Cobh (Cork), Waterford, Dublin, Liverpool, Newhaven (Edinburgh 2 days ), Dover Amsterdam

 

It looks like the Princess with Liverpool hits the ports we'd like but really not crazy about the dates. Also Royal is bigger than I think we'd like and I think I read they have eliminated the all the way around the ship promenade desk? I really enjoyed that on the Pearl, usually 2-3 miles a day.

 

School holidays in England in 2018 from 16Jul to 5Sep, with a half term 23May to 01Jun. In Scotand 27Jun to 20Aug with no half term, the education system or different in both countries,

 

Like Guernsey , the Bank of Northern Ireland , and several Scottish banks issue their own currency notes,valid only in each country, though you could change them at face value in English banks, most English shops think you are trying to pay with monopoly money

[smm0218]

"School holidays in England in 2018 from 16Jul to 5Sep, with a half term 23May to 01Jun. In Scotand 27Jun to 20Aug."

 

 

Great info. If I understand correctly kids are out of school 23 May to 1 June and then not til 18 July in england and not until 27Jun in Scotland.

 

 

That really helps.

[tring]

"School holidays in England in 2018 from 16Jul to 5Sep, with a half term 23May to 01Jun. In Scotand 27Jun to 20Aug."

 

 

Great info. If I understand correctly kids are out of school 23 May to 1 June and then not til 18 July in england and not until 27Jun in Scotland.

 

 

That really helps.

 

Yes that is about it, school hols are earlier in Scotland. Different local authority areas do have slightly different school hols though, so the start and finish dates are not exactly the same for all schools throughout England, but the English ones will all likely be within a few days of those dates. I do not have good knowledge of Scotland and variations there. If you have continental Families travelling on ships around the UK, then their holidays can be quite different to the English ones and many of the bigger cruise lines have an international clientelle.

 

I know there is no relevance here, but if anyone is looking at school hols in the UK for other times of year, the half terms are often a different week in different parts of the country and some areas do not have long breaks for Easter now, but work on a semester system.

[smm0218]

I'd like to thank everyone for the help in choosing. I choose the Royal Princess itinerary that includes Liverpool. I would have loved an overnight in Edinburgh but it wasn't to be.

 

I'll be back with more questions as I try to plan the London segment and excursions.

[tring]

Yes, tring, I was thinking of the OP's desire to visit Wales, and threw in the option of doing so from Liverpool.

Yes the first part of the drive across the Wirral, with the greatest of respect to the folk who live there ;p, is indeed quite featureless - but an hour from Liverpool you're on the north Wales coast, ten minutes later you're in Conwy (castle etc) and 20 mins up the beautiful Conwy valley you're in Betsy. Then a scenic 30 minutes over Snowdonia to somewhere like Blaenau Ffestiniog or Llanberis.

 

London is definitely bucket-list.

Like tring, I'm not a great fan and I certainly wouldn't want to live there.

I also wouldn't like to live in places like NYC or Chicago.

But great to experience as a visitor, and just so many iconic places to see in London.

 

B :)

 

I am commenting on this for the benefit of any other people who may read this thread, rather than the OP, who I know has made a decision.

 

Well John I certainly had no wish to create a personal argument as you seem to like to do, so I will ignore your personal comment, which is totally untrue anyway - you clearly have no knowledge of this area at all. However, I really must take issue with your timing re the journey to North Wales from Liverpool and I know I am not the first person who is local to this area to challenge that with you, although I do think you are trying to be helpful rather than intentionally mislead others - you just do not have any great knowledge of this part of the UK. You may possibly use bing and assume you are thinking of this route, which would be the quickest https://www.bing.com/maps , but I would strongly dispute your timing even if the journey was taken in the middle of the night.

 

Even the link I have posted says one hour 39 mins without traffic to Conwy and I can only assume the 1 hour 30 minutes is a mistake on the side of Bing as it says that is the time taken with light traffic, so could not be less then the time taken without traffic. A cruise around the UK, docking in Liverpool will be in summer and a port call will be during the daytime, so the A55, through Wales will be a busy road since there is always lots of business traffic around as well as holiday trafffic. It can be quite slow moving at times, especially if it is a weekend or school holidays. It also seems a bit mundane to me, though in fact I do realise our fields, green rolling hills and forests can be something people from some other parts of the world do not see regularly and that is the terrain for all bar the first six or seven miles out of Liverpool, so perhaps featureless is not entirely accurate. Your timings of travel within Snowdonia in summer is also not realistic. If you are ever up in this area at that time of year, I suggest you try the journey yourself in modern road conditions, those first few miles out of Liverpool can easily take twenty minutes or more.

 

Must admit I was also a bit perplexed with your dismissal of Holyhead as a base to take a trip to Snowdonia as it is within a few miles of Snowdonia, but I do not think the larger ships ships dock there, which may be what you meant.

 

What I had said is that OP should make the decision knowingly as it would involve spending most of the day on a coach with no time to appreciate the area - but some people do like that, especially if mobility is an issue for them. I was also comparing that with your other suggestion of scenic tours in Scotland, which would be in mountainous and much less spoilt areas for most of the time, so would be a much better prospect IMO.

 

Perhaps I was a little harsh on London as some may just want to go there anyway, but I was throwing in a bit of reality as well, given my thoughts when I first went there - it was like a foreign world to me with people rushing round and pushing, especially on the tube system in London and I was not young at that time, so had experienced many cities. I travelled through the London tube system early afternoon yesterday to get from Waterloo to Euston and that experience still amazes me - but perhaps that is part of the tourist experience in itself.

[John Bull]

Hi Tring,

 

Well, that post took me aback, :confused:

No personal battle from my end, sorry you see it that way.

Just giving my honest opinions.

Agreeing with you on some things, disagreeing on others. Not personal.

And some of my comments you've misunderstood.

 

I am commenting on this for the benefit of any other people who may read this thread, rather than the OP, who I know has made a decision.

 

Well John I certainly had no wish to create a personal argument as you seem to like to do, so I will ignore your personal comment, which is totally untrue anyway - you clearly have no knowledge of this area at all.

I certainly do know the area, Tring. I used to drive coach tours to north Wales. And occasionally to Liverpool, that mainly for football matches.

I've only driven the Wirral to get between the two, and that on very few occasions, so I don't know the area. But I do recall that it's pretty flat and, yes, featureless. Or is that because I've only ever driven the main roads through the Wirral?

I was agreeing with your own earlier comment saying "A journey to Snowdonia from Liverpool..//... on very busy, featureless roads".

But, as per my post, I rate the latter part of that drive much more interesting.

 

However, I really must take issue with your timing re the journey to North Wales from Liverpool and I know I am not the first person who is local to this area to challenge that with you, although I do think you are trying to be helpful rather than intentionally mislead others - you just do not have any great knowledge of this part of the UK. You may possibly use bing and assume you are thinking of this route, which would be the quickest https://www.bing.com/maps , but I would strongly dispute your timing even if the journey was taken in the middle of the night.

As well as personal experience I use googlemaps, have used them professionally for many years, and have found that other than on country lanes I can just about match the times even when driving a coach.

I posted "an hour from Liverpool you're on the north Wales coast" (Abergele). Byng reckons it around an hour and 10 mins. Google puts it at 1hr to 1hr 20.

I posted "ten minutes later you're in Conwy". Google puts that at 10 to 14 mins, Bing says 14 mins.

So the most optimistic Liverpool to Conwy is 1hr 10 and the most pessimistic is 1hr 30.

And Busybus puts it at 90 minutes. In a minibus.

All the above times for mid-morning on a summer Saturday or weekday, though of course they don't allow for extensive roadworks or accident scenes.

 

Even the link I have posted says one hour 39 mins without traffic to Conwy and I can only assume the 1 hour 30 minutes is a mistake on the side of Bing as it says that is the time taken with light traffic, so could not be less then the time taken without traffic.

The link you posted simply took me to my own location near Southampton.

For a link to a specific map, instead of pasting the Bing webpage at the top of your screen you need to click on "share" on the map's header bar. Then paste the full URL because the shortened version doesn't work on Cruise Critic.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c0be796d-d4ee-4bdf-b93a-c4931ae36b04&cp=53.302838~-3.529131&lvl=10&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

This puts Liverpool cruise pier to Conwy castle at 1 hr 26 mid-morning.

 

A cruise around the UK, docking in Liverpool will be in summer and a port call will be during the daytime, so the A55, through Wales will be a busy road since there is always lots of business traffic around as well as holiday trafffic. It can be quite slow moving at times, especially if it is a weekend or school holidays. It also seems a bit mundane to me, though in fact I do realise our fields, green rolling hills and forests can be something people from some other parts of the world do not see regularly and that is the terrain for all bar the first six or seven miles out of Liverpool, so perhaps featureless is not entirely accurate.

As above, I was only agreeing with you that part of the route is mundane.

 

Your timings of travel within Snowdonia in summer is also not realistic. If you are ever up in this area at that time of year, I suggest you try the journey yourself in modern road conditions, those first few miles out of Liverpool can easily take twenty minutes or more.

I've got virtually no experience of those first few miles out of Liverpool in the summer & I'll bow to your local knowledge.

But I have plenty of experience professionally driving the tourist routes around Snowdonia during the summer months, and sticking to a schedule.

 

Must admit I was also a bit perplexed with your dismissal of Holyhead as a base to take a trip to Snowdonia as it is within a few miles of Snowdonia, but I do not think the larger ships ships dock there, which may be what you meant.

No, you've mis-construed. ;)

Not dismissing it at all.

The OP wanted to include a visit to Wales. I made the point that if they found an itinerary which didn't include Wales but was otherwise ideal, if it included Liverpool they could visit Wales from there.

Agreed, Holyhead is more convenient to Snowdonia - but unfortunately it's rather unreliable. More reliable now that ships berth at the old aluminium pier rather than tender, but still subject to the vagaries of wind & weather.

If you go back thro the thread you'll see that I did explain both those things in earlier posts.

 

What I had said is that OP should make the decision knowingly as it would involve spending most of the day on a coach with no time to appreciate the area - but some people do like that, especially if mobility is an issue for them. I was also comparing that with your other suggestion of scenic tours in Scotland, which would be in mountainous and much less spoilt areas for most of the time, so would be a much better prospect IMO.

There's coach rides and there's scenic coach rides. And Snowdonia is one of those areas where you get to see a lot of scenery from a coach.

Even more so, as we agree, in parts of Scotland.

But, as you say, it's not for everyone.

And I must admit I am biased. I have a penchant for free-wheeling road trips in scenic areas where I rate the drive more important than the destination. Places like the Rockies, the Smokies, US Hwy 1, the Transvaal, the Alps, the Loire and Rhine valleys, the Dalmatian coast, east-coast Australia and such. I'll happily drive those roads all day - very different to boring motorway drives with the intention of simply getting to a destination.

 

Perhaps I was a little harsh on London as some may just want to go there anyway, but I was throwing in a bit of reality as well, given my thoughts when I first went there - it was like a foreign world to me with people rushing round and pushing, especially on the tube system in London and I was not young at that time, so had experienced many cities. I travelled through the London tube system early afternoon yesterday to get from Waterloo to Euston and that experience still amazes me - but perhaps that is part of the tourist experience in itself.

As I posted, I wouldn't like to live in London. Or Chicago or NYC. A day or three is plenty for me - but such iconic cities are bucket-list, and for most folks well worthwhile for a few days.

 

 

 

JB :)

[tring]

As someone who was brought up in Liverpool I learn't that tongue pulling was very rude, though I can see that others may have different views on that.

 

Your following comment - And I must admit I am biased. I have a penchant for free-wheeling road trips in scenic areas where I rate the drive more important than the destination. says it all regarding how you think that people should spend a day from a cruise ship, as I said, I was just pointing out that Snowdonia is far from being on the doorstep of LIverpool. I know you are very helpful to many people, but do think you could give some space to helpful comments by other people, rather than coming in with rude, domineering posts in a response to other peoples comments, especially when they have knowledge that you clearly do not have.

 

Some of your later comments only prove my point, for example:- A coach journey to Liverpool in the football season would not be in the main summer season and journeys from Wales to Liverpool and back would be travelling against the holiday traffic rather than with it, so timings would be totally different to going to Wales from Liverpool for a day trip. Abergele is more than 50 miles from Liverpool and the heaviest traffic is found on the main cross country road, which would be picked up near the Welsh border, which is near the river Dee crossing.

 

I know from reading previous posts of yours, that you have driven coach parties from bases such as Colwyn Bay and Llandudno, which I agree are very near to Snowdonia. It was always the journey to Snowdonia which I was commenting on in my first post and which I still maintain is completely as I stated. I am also aware that most coach trips to North Wales tend to be in the spring and autumn rather than at the height of the summer. I also think that knowledge you do have may be based in times when the roads were not so busy, though I am not sure when your driving experience was in this region.

 

Online systems can work, but are way out for that journey in the summer, especially if the weather is good and I do wonder if even you would recommend a day stuck on a coach in the pouring rain, no matter where it is. Rainfall is pretty high in Wales. Times given by tour providers are often inaccurate in my experience as well, as they obvoiuosly want to give the best view of their tour - it is easy to explain away the delay as 'due to traffic' and non locals would not realise that it could not realistically have been expected otherwise, so complaints are never easy to make.

 

I am not happy to have written my recent posts and more to the point the need for them, but do feel that you need to be made aware of the true situation. I do not like disputes on this site (or indeed anywhere), so will not return to this as I think it must be giving a bad impression for potential tourist to the UK. I do feel, however, that the mis information could be more of a problem for many tourists, so felt this had to be said.

Edited September 8, 2017 by tring

[marchie1053]

 

Edinburgh, DH would love to visit St. Andrews, not necessarily to play golf, just to see it. I'm interested in castle and just walking around looking.

 

 

Hi smm

 

I'm in France at the moment and won't be back in Scotland until 23/9/17. Our next door neighbour in Scotland is a private hire driver and regularly provides trips to cruise passengers into the Fife countryside, including the obligatory St Andrews visit!If you'd be interested, I can get Robbie's contact details and pass them onto you - he is a thoroughly nice individual, with a wry sense of humour. Have a look at a map of Scotland and search for Burntisland, Fife (if you use Bing, enter the postcode KY3 9EB and you'll be able to get a Google Earth view of where he and we are! Almost directly opposite Edinburgh Castle in a straight line across the Firth of Forth!). We also have a brand new road bridge over the Forth - opened last week - glorious views out to sea and back up the Valley towards Stirling. Stirling Castle and Edinburgh Castle are great places to visit, but, depending upon the time you have available, it might be a choice between St Andrews and the castles! Please let me know if you'd like any more information - enjoy your cruise! BTW, Liverpool is a very vibrant city - sailed from there to Canada in September 2016 - 10 days of bumpy sea but a great adventure!

[John Bull]

Hi again, Tring,

 

Sorry, but from the outset I've really not seen the need for any "dispute." :confused:

We each have our own experiences and opinions.

 

As someone who was brought up in Liverpool I learn't that tongue pulling was very rude, though I can see that others may have different views on that.

It's hardly typical of the famous Scouse sense of humour to take offence at a tongue-and-wink emoticon, I'm sorry you've chosen to do so.

 

Your following comment - "And I must admit I am biased. I have a penchant for free-wheeling road trips in scenic areas where I rate the drive more important than the destination." says it all regarding how you think that people should spend a day from a cruise ship, as I said, I was just pointing out that Snowdonia is far from being on the doorstep of LIverpool.

Remember, I was responding to the OP's desire to visit Wales - easy to do from Liverpool, hence the offered cruise minibus tours and many other Welsh day-trips available from Liverpool.

I didn't tell folk that they should spend their day ashore on a coach trip, I put it up as an option.

And I did make clear my bias for scenic drives, it's only right that I should do.

Perhaps you have an underlying bias for suggesting that folk stick to your home city of Liverpool?

 

I know you are very helpful to many people, but do think you could give some space to helpful comments by other people, rather than coming in with rude, domineering posts in a response to other peoples comments, especially when they have knowledge that you clearly do not have.

I don't control the space for other people to post, we all have our own opinions that we're free to express.

Standing by an opinion when someone else has a different viewpoint isn't "domineering" or rude, it's a matter of confidence in one's own judgement.

Sometimes I accept that another person's viewpoint is better, sometimes they accept that mine is better. And sometimes we agree to differ - not personal, no offence taken by either side.

 

Some of your later comments only prove my point, for example:- A coach journey to Liverpool in the football season would not be in the main summer season and journeys from Wales to Liverpool and back would be travelling against the holiday traffic rather than with it, so timings would be totally different to going to Wales from Liverpool for a day trip. Abergele is more than 50 miles from Liverpool and the heaviest traffic is found on the main cross country road, which would be picked up near the Welsh border, which is near the river Dee crossing.

Yes, I made it clear that I had little experience of driving just that first 18 - 20 miles between Liverpool & the A55, though those occasions wouldn't have been connected to football so could have been at any time of year. And I did bow to your knowledge of that cross-country stretch.

But I do have a lot of experience of the A55 and all points west, almost always in the summer, and I've only rarely been caught in significantly slow traffic. The A55 is, after all, an expressway, built to speed through-traffic with not so much as a roundabout to impede progress. Of course it doesn't always go to plan, all it takes is heavy traffic and a broken-down vehicle blocking a lane to quickly build a queue - but that's the luck of the draw.

 

I know from reading previous posts of yours, that you have driven coach parties from bases such as Colwyn Bay and Llandudno, which I agree are very near to Snowdonia. It was always the journey to Snowdonia which I was commenting on in my first post and which I still maintain is completely as I stated. I am also aware that most coach trips to North Wales tend to be in the spring and autumn rather than at the height of the summer. I also think that knowledge you do have may be based in times when the roads were not so busy, though I am not sure when your driving experience was in this region.

Err, no, you're wrong on that point. In my experience there are more coach trips to north Wales in summer than the shoulder seasons, witness the level of activity in the coach parks. Next comes September, with springtime much quieter.

 

Online systems can work, but are way out for that journey in the summer, especially if the weather is good and I do wonder if even you would recommend a day stuck on a coach in the pouring rain, no matter where it is. Rainfall is pretty high in Wales. Times given by tour providers are often inaccurate in my experience as well, as they obvoiuosly want to give the best view of their tour - it is easy to explain away the delay as 'due to traffic' and non locals would not realise that it could not realistically have been expected otherwise, so complaints are never easy to make.

Agreed the likes of Googlemaps, Bing and the various sat-navs aren't gospel - they need to be treated with caution and tempered by personal experience.

No, I wouldn't recommend a coach trip in the pouring rain. But it is perhaps better than hiking the hills or walking the seafront or trudging the streets in the pouring rain. ;)

The better prospect of fine weather in north Wales in mid-summer is perhaps a significant factor in that being the busiest time for coaches there.

Yes, I agree that tour promoters aren't going to express pessimistic journey times.

 

I am not happy to have written my recent posts and more to the point the need for them, but do feel that you need to be made aware of the true situation. I do not like disputes on this site (or indeed anywhere), so will not return to this as I think it must be giving a bad impression for potential tourist to the UK. I do feel, however, that the mis information could be more of a problem for many tourists, so felt this had to be said.

No, I'm not happy that you felt the need either. Or the way you felt you needed to express it. :(

 

In future I'll be careful not to say anything that might offend you.

And perhaps you can try to chill a little?

 

Kind Regards

 

JB :)

[smm0218]

marchie1053

 

 

"Stirling Castle and Edinburgh Castle are great places to visit, but, depending upon the time you have available, it might be a choice between St Andrews and the castles! "

 

If I understand correctly DH can't really see the Golf Course unless he plays and he says his game is so bad he doesn't want to try to play (which I'm sure is next to impossible anyway) and has decided he'll just skip St Andrews. Total time in Edinburgh is scheduled to be 12 hours but we have to tender so probably more like 8. I'm still investigating things we want to do but I really hate to see him give up visiting St. Andrews (if he could actually see it) so I can visit castles and shopping.

 

If you have a chance when you get home and could send me more info after you talk to Robbie that would be wonderful. Thank you.