Pre-Paid Gratuities/Tips

[swedish weave]

If anyone gets any tips from you, they must report them to the supervisor or they will be fired! Plus as I posted earlier, everyone that serve you gets a printout of their cabin #s that took off the tips.

 

 

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That is a myth fostered by the cruise line management, and they have no way to enforce it. It is meant for intimidation.

I wi'll give you a hypothetical example. I put cash in an envelope and put another cabin number and name on it. Hand it to my,steward and go remove the charges. Do you get my point??

If they get a printout, what effect does it have if the charges are,removed on the last day of the cruise??

Edited October 9, 2017 by swedish weave

[swedish weave]

Agreed it is no one else business. I still think it is lame to use he EXCUSE "I tipped" as a reason to remove the DSC. NCL clearly states that (paraphrasing) IF THERE IS AN ISSUE THAT CS CANNOT RESOLVE then they will remove the DSC. I wish people would not alter the site either, that is why I do a direct cut/paste.

That is,a classic lame excuse!!!,,Read what was,added to the NCL statement on YOUR post.

[Zenica]

WRONG:

 

Gratuity: https://www.ncl.com/faq#tipping

DSC: https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

Are you an ESL student? If so, I'd understand your inability to comprehend that you just made my case, for me.

From the first link you posted;

"Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports."

 

Now from the second link, which by the way was the same link I previously referenced but again, being an ESL, I understand the lack of comprehension.

"What about Gratuities?

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, there is an 18% gratuity and spa service charge added for all spa and salon services, as well as an 18% gratuity and beverage service charge added for all beverage purchases and an 18% gratuity and specialty service charge added to all specialty restaurant dining and entertainment based dining. Read more about the service charge"

 

 

The last 6 words, "read more about the service charge" just take you to the first link you posted.

 

 

So, the service charge is being applied to select employees as an incentive. Hmmm, that seems to describe what a gratuity is. An incentive to exceed expectation in the hopes of being rewarded.

 

 

In the second link NCL states certain staff do not benefit from the service charge establishing the service charge as a form of gratuity. This is further solidified when NCL encourages guests to pay gratuity to those employees not receiving a distribution of service charges.

 

 

 

I can't make this any clearer for you.

[swedish weave]

There are no "tips" to take off.

 

Silly argument.

[fshagan]

This could also be influenced by the personal economics of the employee. If in their native country, they'd earn x but NCL pays xx then they may not care that NCL collected XXX from the passengers and retained X for themselves

 

I'll ask my boss if he takes some of the money I make for the company and pockets it. Wait, I don't need to ask, do I? I should have applied to be a CEO ...

 

 

Would their public filings require them to itemize the income to allow for a differentiation of base fare income vs excess dailer service charge income?

 

Nope, they don't even break out the income by ship. You can see things like the percentage of costs that are labor, fuel, etc. I didn't see any categories for "upper management employee exploitation fund" in there.

[fshagan]

Still no response from NCL. Think I will remove pre-paid gratuities from my bill and give CASH to everyone I meet. Will leave CASH at bar, CASH at MDR, Buffet., CASH for Steward, etc. I will walk away knowing the hard working people actually got my $ and how much I appreciated them. Corporate out of it. JMO

 

Check the bar bill first ... it has an 18% gratuity added above the "Extra tip" line, so you may not want to add a cash tip at the bar. I have never heard of anyone being able to remove the 18% on bar tabs, but others here are more experienced with it.

[fshagan]

Firstly, I said commensurate, not commiserate.

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

Secondly, no. My tipping practices at a restaurant don't typically factor in the employees wages as it isn't any of my business. I have just been cognizant of their base salary as most people are, although I was unaware that some localized areas or states have enacted laws to elevate that minimum hourly wage for tipped employees.

 

Hmmm ... OK. that doesn't really make sense when you typed "Reminds me of tipping in Vegas. I was always tipping based on the belief they were paid pittance as I believed all wait staff were paid $2.13 an hour. "

 

If your tip is dependent on the service you receive, and not the wages of the individual, why did this make an impression on you?

 

Minimum wages for servers are all over the place in the US. The $2.13 minimum the Feds have for servers who receive at least $30 in tips has a caveat; if the tips and $2.13 an hour don't meet the $7.25 minimum wage then the employer has to bump up the hourly rate to make tips + wages equal at least $7.25. Nevada is at $8.25 per hour now, although if the employer provides health insurance they can pay them $7.25.

 

My issue with NCL is A) I have no control over what is paid to the employees I interact with or are serviced by. B) I have no idea how much of my $391 is actually going to employees.

 

You know, I was at my local McDonalds this morning, and insisted the manager give the clerk that helped me a raise. He immediately complied because you know, I'm the customer and I should have control over what is paid to employees. I then went to my credit union, and sat down with the manager and insisted that they show me the teller's salary so I could intervene if I thought they were paid too much or too little ... after all, I just paid a fee to see a teller. I want to make sure he gets the extra money. My real dilemma is that I paid a fee for Zebra Mussels on my boat registration, and I have no idea which zebra mussel got the money.

 

NCL doesn't say the money goes directly to the employee. People here say that. But NCL doesn't. They say your service charge "supports" incentive programs. It's no different than a resort fee at a hotel, or an airline baggage fee (I have it on good authority the baggage handlers do not get any extra money from that, either).

 

You don't have to make excuses or rationalize your decision. NCL says it's yours to make. Do what you think is best.

[swedish weave]

No argument at all. Fact.

Altered facts. extreme imagination!!!

Not supported by any NCL published information.

 

To get this discussion back on the subject, it makes no difference what you choose to call the charges.

 

NCL allows removal of the charges, and is the guest's decision to do so if they choose.

Edited October 9, 2017 by swedish weave

[Zenica]

I'll ask my boss if he takes some of the money I make for the company and pockets it. Wait, I don't need to ask, do I? I should have applied to be a CEO ...

 

 

As a consumer I have the right to decide where to patronize and my decision making process is as private as yours. If I decide how the company spends the money I pay for the product or service is relevant to me, it is my prerogative. The extent to which I will have insight into how it is spent is purely up to the company in question. I do not work for NCL nor have I applied to the company thus your analogy however quaint, is none the less flawed.

 

 

If your tip is dependent on the service you receive, and not the wages of the individual, why did this make an impression on you?

The tip is based on my experience with that individual. The formulae for tips does factor in the base pay, I did not establish this baseline, it has existed longer than I've been contemplating its validity. In any given scenario if the person receiving the tip is earning a substantially higher base salary then yes, I would take that under advisement when calculating the tip. Thus far it hasn't influenced my tipping patterns and I was in Vegas a few months ago.

 

 

You know, I was at my local McDonalds this morning, and insisted the manager give the clerk that helped me a raise. He immediately complied because you know, I'm the customer and I should have control over what is paid to employees. I then went to my credit union, and sat down with the manager and insisted that they show me the teller's salary so I could intervene if I thought they were paid too much or too little ... after all, I just paid a fee to see a teller. I want to make sure he gets the extra money. My real dilemma is that I paid a fee for Zebra Mussels on my boat registration, and I have no idea which zebra mussel got the money.

 

Was this just more useless banter on your part? When I said "My issue with NCL is A) I have no control over what is paid to the employees I interact with or are serviced by. B) I have no idea how much of my $391 is actually going to employees. ." either I did not articulate myself clear enough for you or...

 

I'll explain. My issue with NCL is A) I have no control over what is paid to the employees I interact with or are serviced by from the daily service charge collected from me. [in other words] B) I have no idea how much of my $391 is actually going to employees.

 

 

I take exception with this, you may not and that is your prerogative.

 

 

Do you think you could make a concerted effort to come up with relevant analogies? It would help bolster your point of view if they actually applied to the conversation.

 

No it does not. Gratuities are not paid ahead of time for an incentive to the employee. They are paid after service as a reward for exemplary service. You are the one who is reading into the description something that is not there. Try again.

 

The exact point in time when NCL distributes the gratuities is irrelevant. It can be before, after or during the cruise as the result is consistent either way. You and I may have a difference of opinion on what the daily service charge is for. I have read the same NCL paragraphs as you and my conclusion is the daily service charge is in fact a gratuity. I have outlined twice why I have arrived at this conclusion, a third explanation isn't likely to clarify this position for you.

 

You said " They are paid after service as a reward for exemplary service." which isn't as radically different from what I said as you'd like to think. The difference in definitions of incentive and reward are minutia, my thesaurus lists them as synonyms of each other. The point I was making is that the daily service charge is a gratuity fee collected by NCL and distributed to the employees.

 

 

Unlike other venues, when I tip I am confident the person receiving the tip is not splitting it with his/her employer.

 

In the case of cruise lines, this tip is being collected and distributed by the company. Verbiage aside, each of us knows

 

what the daily service charge is and what its purpose is for.

 

Not having a definitive input to the tip is troublesome for me, not knowing if the cruise line is siphoning off of that gratuity fund is even more troubling.

[NLH Arizona]

Thus far it hasn't influenced my tipping patterns and I was in Vegas a few months ago.

 

You do know that many casino's have their slot and server staffs pool their tips and then management divides them up and that some dealer's have to share their tips with Supervisors.

[Zenica]

↑ I was not aware. Luckily I have a standard policy that the employee may or may not choose to use to their advantage.

I leave a 5% tip on the card. The rest as cash.

[NLH Arizona]

↑ I was not aware. Luckily I have a standard policy that the employee may or may not choose to use to their advantage.

I leave a 5% tip on the card. The rest as cash.

Not sure how this is any different than NCL. Even if you give cash, they still have to turn it in and it is pooled and divided up by management. Edited October 9, 2017 by NLH Arizona

[Zenica]

↑ On a cruise, it may not matter.

So a cash tip to a steward has to be pooled with other crew members? What about butlers and the concierge? Given they do not receive any distribution from the daily service charge, I'd be very surprised if they had to pool with anyone....other than perhaps other butlers/concierge staff given a cabin may be serviced by more than one person in the course of the cruise.

[NLH Arizona]

↑ On a cruise, it may not matter.

So a cash tip to a steward has to be pooled with other crew members? What about butlers and the concierge? Given they do not receive any distribution from the daily service charge, I'd be very surprised if they had to pool with anyone....other than perhaps other butlers/concierge staff given a cabin may be serviced by more than one person in the course of the cruise.

I didn't say the cash tips from steward has to be pooled, I was speaking about casinos in Las Vegas. But the DSC is pooled and distributed by Management. You would have to ask your Cabin Steward if he has to pool the tips, because I would never ask.

 

I don't know about the Butlers/Concierges, becaue their overall compensation (salary and tips) is not my business, so I've never asked.

[Paul S]

As a Brit I find this thread fascinating, it seems to be a US thing. We find 18% or higher excessive. Traditionally tips in the UK were based on 10% but a lot of places that show it on the bill as an add on levy 12.5%.

 

When the minimum wage came in here a number of restaurants had to guarantee the hourly rate but kept the tips to put towards the hourly rate, and once that had been reached the tips then went to the staff.

 

In large parts of Europe the tip is the loose change, or in France the bill includes the tip and is not shown separately.

 

It would be interesting if somebody did a comparison between UK and US prices.You pay separately for DSC, port charges and the like and get some perks, we pay an all in price including the UBP, but once we book the price is fixed.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Paul S
Spelling

[Carole2313]

↑ On a cruise, it may not matter.

So a cash tip to a steward has to be pooled with other crew members? What about butlers and the concierge? Given they do not receive any distribution from the daily service charge, I'd be very surprised if they had to pool with anyone....other than perhaps other butlers/concierge staff given a cabin may be serviced by more than one person in the course of the cruise.

 

 

 

A steward can keep cash tips if the DSC has been paid. If no DSC, Stewards can not keep your cash, and risk getting fired if they do. Butlers and the Concierge are not included in the DSC. I asked a Steward that I had a good relationship with and that's what he told me. This only applies to RCI, BTW.

 

 

 

 

 

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[swedish weave]

Direct quote and reprints of NCL FAQ pages. Not a single character altered in any manner at all.

 

Agreed that they are indeed allowed to. I was making (and will continue to make) the 100% valid point that paying or not paying the DSC has noting at all to do with tipping and using the excuse "I tipped in person" as an EXCUSE to remove the DSC is just that. It translates to "I am cheap and do not think the crew deserves all of their earned compensation".

 

Not correct.

[swedish weave]

A steward can keep cash tips if the DSC has been paid. If no DSC, Stewards can not keep your cash, and risk getting fired if they do. Butlers and the Concierge are not included in the DSC. I asked a Steward that I had a good relationship with and that's what he told me. This only applies to RCI, BTW.

 

 

 

 

 

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I posted an example of why that policy is unenforceable, but it was deleted.

[fshagan]

As a consumer I have the right to decide where to patronize and my decision making process is as private as yours.

 

Yeah, but when you state something on an internet discussion forum you generally get some discussion about it.

 

The tip is based on my experience with that individual. The formulae for tips does factor in the base pay, I did not establish this baseline, it has existed longer than I've been contemplating its validity.

 

I clearly misunderstood you then. You do tip based on what the person is earning. Would it help in your decision to leave or remove the DSC to know that most employees serving you are earning 3 to 4 times what they can in other jobs?

 

Do you think you could make a concerted effort to come up with relevant analogies? It would help bolster your point of view if they actually applied to the conversation.

 

I'll take that into consideration. If you promise to be more careful in attributing quotes to me:

 

No it does not. Gratuities are not paid ahead of time for an incentive to the employee. They are paid after service as a reward for exemplary service. You are the one who is reading into the description something that is not there. Try again.

That was said by someone else. Therefore I'll ignore your arguments about that line of reasoning, as it is not my own.

 

 

Unlike other venues, when I tip I am confident the person receiving the tip is not splitting it with his/her employer.

 

Are you sure about that? What do you think can happen legally to any establishment-imposed automatic service charge for parties over 6 in a restaurant? Do you know how much of your cash tip you leave actually goes to the server? There is usually a tip pool the server operates to share the tip with other employees.

 

 

In the case of cruise lines, this tip is being collected and distributed by the company. Verbiage aside, each of us knows

what the daily service charge is and what its purpose is for.

 

Well, we know what NCL says. The rest is conjecture. They do not say it is a tip or grautity, but is a service charge that helps "support incentive plans" for the crew. That is probably purposfully vague IMHO. Tipping is not required, according to NCL, but you can give cash tips if you like. Then they add some positions are customarily tipped because they don't share in the incentive pool. I don't know why that is so hard for some people to understand. It is not a tip, and you don't have the right to know where every penny goes, any more than you do with the automatic service charge a restaurant imposes when you have more than 6 people.

 

Not having a definitive input to the tip is troublesome for me, not knowing if the cruise line is siphoning off of that gratuity fund is even more troubling.

 

Again, while it takes the place of traditional tips in the days of yore, it is not now called a tip. There is no tipping required. In marketing, they use interchangable terms of "tips", "gratuities" and "service charges" because it is shorthand for what people ask about. If you ask an NCL rep about "tips", they will tell you the daily service charge takes care of that. They won't go into a 20 minute explanation that most won't understand and use customer service shorthand and say "the service charge takes care of the tips!"

 

They assess a service charge just like a hotel assesses a resort fee, or an airline assesses a baggage fee. The difference is that NCL allows you to remove it, where the hotel and airline do not. You do not have a consumer right to know where the service charge goes. You do have the right to cruise or not. Or choose a AI land vacation (but make sure to find out where that resort fee goes).

[Vick Vega]

Our cruise is coming up next month there are three of us going and we paid the daily fee or gratuity whatever you want to call it, up front. By doing so it appears that has saved us about $70. In my opinion well worth it because we're going to pay it anyway.

 

I skim through the first 50 or 60 posts and didn't see anybody talk about that. In my opinion that makes it worthwhile

[fshagan]

Our cruise is coming up next month there are three of us going and we paid the daily fee or gratuity whatever you want to call it, up front. By doing so it appears that has saved us about $70. In my opinion well worth it because we're going to pay it anyway.

 

I skim through the first 50 or 60 posts and didn't see anybody talk about that. In my opinion that makes it worthwhile

 

You do lock in the price of the daily service charge by either pre-paying or setting it to be paid by final payment. We have had two cruises where that was the case (NCL has raised it now three times in as many years, I think).

[Vick Vega]

You do lock in the price of the daily service charge by either pre-paying or setting it to be paid by final payment. We have had two cruises where that was the case (NCL has raised it now three times in as many years, I think).

Oh, I I was under the impression that paying up front saved me money because they give you a break for doing so. But based on what you're saying I only saved the money because I avoided a rate increase.

[Carole2313]

Here is the breakdown of who gets what with pre-paid gratuity or DSC. Royal Caribbean last upped its gratuities about 10 months ago, going from $12 to $12.95 for standard cabins and $14.25 to $15.95 for suites.

 

According to the line, the new increase puts Royal Caribbean "in line with its competitors in the industry and recognize the exceptional work that Royal Caribbean's staff and crew does to deliver unforgettable vacations every day."

 

As with most lines, passengers can remove the daily gratuity; however, it does pay for tips for all crew members in the dining rooms and housekeeping. According to the line's website, of the $13.50, approximately $8.30 goes to dining and culinary services; stateroom attendants receive $3.85; suite attendants get $6.85 and housekeeping services get $1.35.

 

 

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[swedish weave]

Direct quote and reprints of NCL FAQ pages. Not a single character altered in any manner at all.

 

Agreed that they are indeed allowed to. I was making (and will continue to make) the 100% valid point that paying or not paying the DSC has noting at all to do with tipping and using the excuse "I tipped in person" as an EXCUSE to remove the DSC is just that. It translates to "I am cheap and do not think the crew deserves all of their earned compensation".

 

Nowhere on the NCL website do they call guests CHEAP as shown in the last lines of your so called "quote"

 

Please stop the silliness and stick with the subject.

[Zenica]

Yeah, but when you state something on an internet discussion forum you generally get some discussion about it.

 

I clearly misunderstood you then. You do tip based on what the person is earning. Would it help in your decision to leave or remove the DSC to know that most employees serving you are earning 3 to 4 times what they can in other jobs?

 

↑ True. I was merely asserting that my decision making process isn't subject to being classified as correct or incorrect, socially speaking.

 

I would not care nor factor in the employees pay vs what they would be paid in hypothetical job scenarios. Factoring in what a tipped employee receives for an hourly wage is relevant as that 20% scale is based on the belief that the tipped persons base hourly wage isn't a livable wage. If that hourly rate is just one dollar below the minimum wage for all hourly employees nationwide, that is not insignificant.

 

 

I'll take that into consideration. If you promise to be more careful in attributing quotes to me:

:eek::o

 

My apologies, that is clearly my error.

 

Are you sure about that? What do you think can happen legally to any establishment-imposed automatic service charge for parties over 6 in a restaurant? Do you know how much of your cash tip you leave actually goes to the server? There is usually a tip pool the server operates to share the tip with other employees.

 

The few times I have been at a restaurant in large groups it was established ahead of time with management that we will be tipping based on service and if their customary automatic amount wasn't removed, we'd dine elsewhere. Most times, it is waived and we tip accordingly. As I've said, I like to tip based on what is equal to the service. In 99% of the restaurants I dine, it is 20% to 30%

 

 

Well, we know what NCL says. The rest is conjecture. They do not say it is a tip or grautity, but is a service charge that helps "support incentive plans" for the crew. That is probably purposfully vague IMHO. Tipping is not required, according to NCL, but you can give cash tips if you like. Then they add some positions are customarily tipped because they don't share in the incentive pool. I don't know why that is so hard for some people to understand. It is not a tip, and you don't have the right to know where every penny goes, any more than you do with the automatic service charge a restaurant imposes when you have more than 6 people.

 

I don't need to see the emblem to recognize a McLaren anymore than I need to hear NCL call it a tip for me to know what the true purpose of the daily service charge is. For me, it isn't a matter of conjecture, especialy when NCL has done nearly as much as call it a tip when they state some employees benefit from an incentive program. I agree with you in one regard, I don't have a right or expectation of knowing where every penny goes, from the paid base fare.

 

A fee that is tantamount to a tip fee? I wholeheartedly disagree that I don't have a right to know where it goes and to whom. When I tip, I am aware that sometimes tips are pooled.......amongst employees. Never would I anticipate the top is skimmed by the fat cats in suits.

 

 

Again, while it takes the place of traditional tips in the days of yore, it is not now called a tip. There is no tipping required. In marketing, they use interchangable terms of "tips", "gratuities" and "service charges" because it is shorthand for what people ask about. If you ask an NCL rep about "tips", they will tell you the daily service charge takes care of that. They won't go into a 20 minute explanation that most won't understand and use customer service shorthand and say "the service charge takes care of the tips!"

 

They assess a service charge just like a hotel assesses a resort fee, or an airline assesses a baggage fee. The difference is that NCL allows you to remove it, where the hotel and airline do not. You do not have a consumer right to know where the service charge goes. You do have the right to cruise or not. Or choose a AI land vacation (but make sure to find out where that resort fee goes).

 

Tipping is required. Considering the butler and concierge are not paid from the tip fee and that NCL openly encourages tipping them, it seems to me that without tips those employees would not be earning a livable wage never mind one that justifies being apart from family, friends and home.