US Congress to investigate disappearances

[funforsun]

The stats speak for themselves. 10+million cruisers in 2004 and 10-15 mysterious dissapearances. ( A rate less than 0.15 per 100,000). In 2002, 10.6 per 100,000 people committed suicide, 35.3 died in accidents, 5.9 were assaulted and killed and 9.3 from chronic liver disease or cirrhosis.

 

I really don't want cameras watching everything that goes on down on the Caribe deck balconies...that'l cut down on the free entertainment.

 

When it came to the nation's attention that there was a pattern to deaths in car accidents related to the design of Ford's SUV (or the tires, or whatever it was), Congress got involved and investigated. When patterns emerge where there is a need to understand what is happening to US citizens such as cancer, liver disease, suicide, etc. (as the above poster describes), Congress investigates and either throws some dollars at the issue (probably the best case outcome) or passes some legislation (sometimes not a bad idea). I see this as one of these same issues.

Have US citizens been harmed on cruise ships before....sure. Have they died on cruise ships before.....sure. Have they gone and disappeared for some reason.....sure. But when someone is able to elevate the issue into a public forum where other listen (Nataile Holoway's mother for example), Congress is almost obliged to act, whether it is out of self preservation or a sincere desire to help doesn't really matter to me....as long as they take up the reins and try to accomodate their constituents. That is one reason why we hire them, to listen to us and address our concerns. In the case of Congress, it can be the concern of a single person who gets the ear of his/her Congressperson and elevates the issue. That is part of the beauty of our system, we can get our elected representatives to work for us. Sometimes it takes a lot of pressure, other times perhaps not so much.

Is it OK for Congress to investigate an issue that has been elevated in the conscious minds of the US citizenry? You bet it is, and I for one am happy for it. Once the issue is elevated and discussed in a public forum, things will have to change. They may not change overnight, but they will change. If you don't believe that, just ask all those tobacco company CEO's who stood in front of Congress, raised their right hands and said that there was NO evidence that cigarettes cause cancer.

Hooray for Congress. I look forward to safer cruising in the future. If it only heighten's everyone's senses that there is danger wherever you are, then yahoo for that too. We are all better off for it.

[funforsun]

how can you possibly hold the cruiseline accountable????

 

"If a US citizen is in danger in a foriegn country- the government is expected to intervene."...people put themselves in danger all the time, and no government can be expected to intervene to keep them out of danger. People have to take some responsibility for their own actions.

 

It isn't that the cruise line is accountable for the disappearance. It is such that they have a duty of care that any other business has. I would wager that if you went into a Nordstrom's and slipped on a wet floor that wasn't maked as wet, and you sustained a permanent injury, you would be looking to have Nordstrom pay for the problem. It is no different in these cases. Yes, it is a private business. Yes, it may be a foreign owned private business. But they do business in the US, and carry US Citizens. If anyone thinks that the US Congress doesn't have a duty to protect our Citizens, then I dare say there is some education lacking in the area of social studies and US government.

I for one and happy to have my government involved and working to protect me, no matter the motivation.

[chrysalis]

I am just amazed that the US Congress feels it necessary to investigate the disappearance of 12 people from cruise ships over the period of 5 years, when, according to the State of California, there were 40,000 missing persons in 2004...in that State, alone.

[funforsun]

I am just amazed that the US Congress feels it necessary to investigate the disappearance of 12 people from cruise ships over the period of 5 years, when, according to the State of California, there were 40,000 missing persons in 2004.

 

See my post above

[spongerob]

If you don't believe that, just ask all those tobacco company CEO's who stood in front of Congress, raised their right hands and said that there was NO evidence that cigarettes cause cancer.

 

Great example. Let's review the results. Lots of politicians got to have their pictures taken while wearing their "serious" facial expressions. This plays well for PR firms. Lots of lawyers got lots of money, from both sides. This plays well at Country Clubs across the land. In the end it was decided to raise the price of cigs to pay for the penalties, with the funds to go to support our health care system, and the people would be better off. The people on Main Street are still wondering, "Where the hell's our money?" The health care system is still being raped by lawyers, the politicians all have their fat contributions, and everyone except John Q. Public rests easy. Just what WAS in that kool-aid?

[woodofpine]

The caper of, Where did a couple thousand young americans and a few hundred B$$ disappear? How did they get gobbled up by phantom WMD?

 

or,

 

How do gas prices (and oil company profits) spike by 50% - for half a year - without an investigation?

 

I guess you have to be from Texas to know the answers.

[funforsun]

The caper of, Where did a couple thousand young americans and a few hundred B$$ disappear? How did they get gobbled up by phantom WMD?

 

or,

 

How do gas prices (and oil company profits) spike by 50% - for half a year - without an investigation?

 

I guess you have to be from Texas to know the answers.

 

 

Great example. Let's review the results. Lots of politicians got to have their pictures taken while wearing their "serious" facial expressions. This plays well for PR firms. Lots of lawyers got lots of money, from both sides. This plays well at Country Clubs across the land. In the end it was decided to raise the price of cigs to pay for the penalties, with the funds to go to support our health care system, and the people would be better off. The people on Main Street are still wondering, "Where the hell's our money?" The health care system is still being raped by lawyers, the politicians all have their fat contributions, and everyone except John Q. Public rests easy. Just what WAS in that kool-aid?

 

Both valid perspectives. Just nothing to do with cruising, or Princess, so far as I can tell from the posts.

[Pam in CA]

There's an interesting follow-up article in Cruise News Daily about the George Smith disappearance posted on their website. It makes for interesting reading:

 

http://www.cruisenewsdaily.com/nf51216.html

[chrysalis]

Yes, and she was on TV last night and her interview words were identical to her statement.

[spongerob]

It sounds like her statement was written by a professional PR firm. Oh, my hearstrings, they've been tugged! I'm sympathetic, but skeptical. And, they conveniently glossed over the fact that the events took place in her cabin, but where was the wife during all this :confused: ...enquiring minds want to know!

[sashas_mom]

I agree, I would like to know where she was when all this happened. With that being said though, I've put myself in her place after they deserted her when she went to the police and being left stranded in a forgeign country with no money and in shock. I think this is appalling. Would you want your wife, sister, daughter, mother left in this way? If she is guilty of being part of a crime then hopefully the investigation will show this, however, I still think it was unthinkable that the cruise staff just left her there to fend for herself and wasn't with her at the police station. Don't the cruise ships have any kind of security people? Why weren't they with her?

sasha'smom

[spongerob]

"They" were with her - one person from the ship, and another from the consulate, according to the side-by-side descriptions of both sides of the story posted on CND. So much misinformation is out there, and it seems to be coming from the family in question...they might find themselves being countersued if their allegations turn out to be false. I'm sorry I don't sound very sympathetic, but to me this looks more and more like the family is trying to profit from their tragedy, with willing accomplices in various news media who see a ratings boom coming from this tale.

[dan40]

What does logic tell us about a billion dollar company that deals with millions of the public on an on going basis?

Do they have a written policy in place? With step by step instructions on how to cover the company butt? Does the policy say call the HQ immediately? Do the home office risk people know that the pax must be watched at all times? Do they know to contact the American consulate? Do they know not to create a PR nightmare?

Yes to all the above. Did they do these things? Bet the farm on it.

Do they know to seal the crime scene? Do they know to contact the FBI? Do they know to contact the local authorities? Does the cruiseline have experts to double check that all i's are dotted and all t's crossed and the line is NOT exposed?

Yes to all again. Did they do all they should? Again, move all in, you've got a good bet.

Does logic help her story at all? Could, would the the cruiseline treat her as badly as they possibly could?

I'd check any bets on that, maybe even just fold.

 

Dan

[Pam in CA]

I agree' date=' I would like to know where she was when all this happened. With that being said though, I've put myself in her place after they deserted her when she went to the police and being left stranded in a forgeign country with no money and in shock. I think this is appalling. Would you want your wife, sister, daughter, mother left in this way? If she is guilty of being part of a crime then hopefully the investigation will show this, however, I still think it was unthinkable that the cruise staff just left her there to fend for herself and wasn't with her at the police station. Don't the cruise ships have any kind of security people? Why weren't they with her?

sasha'smom[/quote']This happened as the ship was on it's way to Kusadasi, Turkey. And there was someone from the cruiseline with her ALL of the time as well as someone from the U.S. Consulate (easily verified.) Read the article... everything that RCI stated can be verified by the U.S. Consulate or the FBI.

 

My question is... if there was blood in the stateroom in the morning, as she stated, and she woke up to find her husband gone, where the heck was she? Didn't she notice him missing and the blood when she went to bed? Wouldn't she have noticed any foul play if she was there and was already "asleep"? There was absolutely nothing in her statement that could be verified by anyone else and it actually raises a lot of questions.

[ccrain]

I have seen too much posturing on CSPAN to be moved by ANY congressional investigation - and then seen that posturing cropped into a sound bite for the nightly news that made the congressperson look stupid, or statesman like, depending on the slant the nightly news wanted to portray.

 

Especially when in some cases, I have been involved in the data gathering for that investigation and saw how the voices of reason or facts were just shoved aside for the drama, the sound bite, or the righteous indignation soap box.

 

How many of you know very, very few congresspeople know anything about what they speak? Staff runs congress, not congresspeople. In the "inquiries" I have been involved with, its the staff who shows up, demands answers, gets treated with royalty. Don't screw with the staff. Even 4 star generals treat staff with kid gloves.

 

The congressperson, if they do show up, shows up for a day, gets briefed and fawned over by everyone around - but its the lead staff person who mostly determines the outcome of the investigation and what the congressperson will say, ask or do during a hearing.

 

Sorry, but IMHO, there are far,far more important issues for Congress to "investigate" than a few disapperances on cruise ships.

 

How many people disappear in Las Vegas every year?

[funforsun]

I have seen too much posturing on CSPAN to be moved by ANY congressional investigation - and then seen that posturing cropped into a sound bite for the nightly news that made the congressperson look stupid, or statesman like, depending on the slant the nightly news wanted to portray.

 

Especially when in some cases, I have been involved in the data gathering for that investigation and saw how the voices of reason or facts were just shoved aside for the drama, the sound bite, or the righteous indignation soap box.

 

How many of you know very, very few congresspeople know anything about what they speak? Staff runs congress, not congresspeople. In the "inquiries" I have been involved with, its the staff who shows up, demands answers, gets treated with royalty. Don't screw with the staff. Even 4 star generals treat staff with kid gloves.

 

The congressperson, if they do show up, shows up for a day, gets briefed and fawned over by everyone around - but its the lead staff person who mostly determines the outcome of the investigation and what the congressperson will say, ask or do during a hearing.

 

Sorry, but IMHO, there are far,far more important issues for Congress to "investigate" than a few disapperances on cruise ships.

 

How many people disappear in Las Vegas every year?

 

What I get from this is, because staff runs congressional investigations (a fact that they do the work, not a complete fact that they are not given direction from the Congressperson in highly public cases), it seems like you suggest that there is no benefit for Congress to investigate anything. I have to say that this is just plain faulty if you are suggesting that. Congress investigates, and the manner in which they investigate is that staff takes the lead and makes the recommendations, so what? That is the mechanism. No matter how the investigation is prosecuted, the Congressperson will still have their name associated with the work, because their staff did the work.

 

The argument that there are people that go missing in Las Vegas is specious at best. It isn't the same thing at all. We are discussing a relatively new public debate, and that is "crimes at sea". It really shouldn't be a surprise that this is becoming a more public issue because the cruise industry is experiencing exponentional growth and this area of the law hasn't been examined closely in, who knows, 100 years? It is probably time to look at this area of the law, including the arcane rules regarding how ships visit US ports and how many states can they visit before pulling into a port ex-US and the taxation issues associated with that.

 

 

I am happy to have Congress work in this manner, and happy to have Congress investigate issues that come to the public attention, and I am also happy to know that Congess can do more than one investigation at a time so that if there are improvements that can be made to the "crimes at sea" issue, that they will be looked at and then have a possibility of me being even more safe at sea. Its all a good thing.

[ccrain]

You've seen the stats. Rack and stack your top 50, or even the top 100, for Congress to work on. I really doubt ship-board disappearances is one of them.

 

It sure isn't for me.

 

Of course Congress wants to investigate cruise lines. For any reason they can think of and I think you actually hit the nail on the head.

 

Taxation.

 

They just can't stand the fact that they can't triple tax that money spent on cruising. Its just so un-American that those foreign flagged cruise lines are getting so many American dollars.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go brush my teeth and gargle.

 

Mixing politics with cruising just leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.