US Congress to investigate disappearances

[mountainhouse]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1927595,00.html

 

"Spurred to action by the case of George Allen Smith IV, whose disappearance from a cruise ship on July 5 has all the ingredients of an Agatha Christie whodunnit, a congressional committee will hear evidence about at least 12 people who have vanished from liners in the past five years."

 

I suspect when you take your entire trip into account, the most dangerous part is driving your own car to the airport.

[spongerob]

How many unsolved murders in DC in the last five years? Our tax dollars, hard at work. Geez.

[Pam in CA]

I guess Congress has nothing better to do these days. From what I understand, this was prompted by Smith's relatives who claim not to know information that is readily available and on record. Notice that you haven't seen a peep from his wife, who was with him at the time. Perhaps their time is better spent investigating the wife.

[Coral]

I guess Congress has nothing better to do these days. From what I understand, this was prompted by Smith's relatives who claim not to know information that is readily available and on record. Notice that you haven't seen a peep from his wife, who was with him at the time. Perhaps their time is better spent investigating the wife.

 

My guess is attorneys for the family have told the wife to keep quiet for legal reasons.

[Druke I]

I think there are many more pressing problems for them to deal with - little I saw on the news about this seemed ridiculous to me.

 

I think they are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[spongerob]

My guess is attorneys for the family have told the wife to keep quiet for legal reasons.

 

Like the 5th Ammendment?

[houstoncruisers2001]

I can understand how some people go missing.....there was a male passenger on our last cruise soooooo darn drunk that he passed out on the floor in front of our cabin door with a plate full of buffet food all over him. I called security and when they finally woke him up he had no idea he was even on a cruise ship. One wrong turn and I'm sure he could have fallen overboard. Pitiful.

[zydecocruiser]

I smell a big fat boondoggle and more waste of taxpayers money.

[dan40]

As previously posted, another way to throw tax dollars down the turlet. Accidents happen on ships, same as anywhere else. Foul play happens on ships, same as or much less so than in D.C. And any congressman could have a page look up the nations suicide rate and be amazed that so few go missing from cruiseships. The page could find that info for about a million two or three or for about 4 cents.

But red or blue, we elected the idiots.

 

Dan

[critterchick]

Well, they're finished investigating steroid use in major league baseball, so they must have SOMETHING to do besides balancing the budget and simplifying the US tax code. Let's see, and incident that occurs on a foreign-flagged vessel in Europe is worthy of Congressional investigation because....

 

The committee members will have to take a cruise so they know what they're investigating!:D

[dan40]

Jean,

You have total grasp of the situation, your constituents would be proud! :eek::D

 

Dan

[katisdale]

Not only did we elect them we continue to PAY them to not discuss the real problems this nation faces.

[BroncosCruiser]

Not to be argumentative, but…….

 

So a committee is going to hold a few hours of hearings on the safety of passengers on cruise ships. And all of the posts to this point think it is a waste of time?

 

I guess I don’t see what the downside is to this. Dozens of hearings are held every day on all sorts of topics. And it isn’t like holding this hearing is going to keep the members from addressing other issues.

 

So why are they addressing this particular issue? Is it grandstanding or showboating? Sure, but that is what they do. Congress takes on high profile issues. They are interested in what their constituents are interested in.

 

Car accidents kill somewhere around 50,000 people a year in the US. But they aren’t holding hearing on that. Why? Because while we know how to greatly reduce that number, no one will allow such measures to be passed. So committees address other, smaller, issues that they can do something about.

 

So what can Congress do? I am sure they are going to bring in some company representatives, and the trade association, and ask them about keeping track of passengers, passenger safety, etc. There will probably be a few embarrassing questions directed to the companies. (There was a post on here a while ago about a passenger that went missing around Vancouver and the cruise company donated her clothes to charity before ever filing a police report. It is stories like that that get the public to call their representative and senator.)

 

The companies will promise to make some changes – file police reports immediately, contact the passenger’s family, etc. They will probably also agree to look to some technology that would make it easier to know when a passenger goes overboard. (Think about this – a casino can have cameras covering the entire 150,000 square foot gaming floor and see what all 50,000 customers and staff are doing at any given time. Why can’t the outside of the ship be monitored, or at least recorded, to see if someone goes overboard. Really, how much would a camera system like that cost – to pick up the time and location of a person going overboard.)

 

The cruise lines will also probably be asked to agree to contact the FBI anytime a US passenger goes missing, no matter where the ship is, or something like that. This will probably be more contentious, but they will agree to look at some options.

 

So the companies will promise to things they should already be doing, they will promise to look at some other changes, including technology, and the committee will tell them that if they don’t live up the promises, then legislation will be proposed. The cruise lines really don’t want any legislation passed, because they would have less say in it and it would have the force of law, so they will clean up their act some.

 

The representatives will be happy because they can say they addressed the issue. The cruise lines will be happy that no more regulations will be passed as long as they take some fairly inexpensive actions. And the constituents who complained will feel like their complaining did some good.

 

This, for better or worse, is how things get done. (Unless you are Major League Baseball and the players union, then you get called in three times and legislation is introduced before you get around to acting – but that is another story.)

 

So I wonder again, what really is the downside here?

[Pam in CA]

BroncosCruiser... what you're saying will probably or should happen already is part of the process. In the case of Mr. Smith, the FBI was notified at the same time the Turkish officials were -- immediately after it was determined that Mr. Smith wasn't on the ship. Very complete procedures are already in place as soon as it's determined that someone is really no longer on the ship.

 

The reality is that it's nearly impossible for anyone to fall off a ship. You either have to be sitting or standing on a railing, be pushed, or thrown over the railing. Or take a flying leap.

 

What you're seeing here in the posts reflects the supposition that Congress is getting involved as a knee-jerk reaction to incorrect and misleading media reports. The Smith family claims that they've had no information and that RCI didn't do anything to help them so they're going to the media which is lapping it up rather than checking on the facts (which are documented and public.)

 

Out of all of the cases of "missing" persons on cruise ships, I have never heard of foul play or a major crime committed by a crew member against a passenger. Yes, there have been rapes in the past but you very rarely hear of those now. Cruise ships are incredibly safe. How Congress could possibly improve on their safety record is a mystery to me. Not to beg the question whether Congress has any jurisdiction over international companies and international passengers in international waters in the first place.

 

Cherche la femme.

[JimnKaren]

What bothers me a bit is that Mr Smith went "missing" in the dark of night, while the woman in Nassau "disappeared" between 9 a.m. and 1 p.m. either while cruising into the Bahamas or docked there. I find it a little more puzzling that no one saw her in daylight hours, during times when many people would up and about on the decks.

 

Jim

[BroncosCruiser]

Pam,

 

You may be absolutely correct that this is on account of inaccurate media reports. And if that is the case, this type of hearing will only help the cruise lines.

 

If officials are asked to testify under oath that they have done everything correctly, that will be part of the story. And such testimony will put a lot of the false allegations down.

 

 

Not to beg the question whether Congress has any jurisdiction over international companies and international passengers in international waters in the first place.

 

Of course, Congress doesn’t have any jurisdiction over international companies in international waters. But they do when those ships enter US waters and dock at US ports. And that is how they can get compliance. “If you want to enter US waters and dock at US ports, then you will ….” It’s leverage, and it’s pretty good leverage.

 

But I think you point about accountability is the main issue, really. Every story (or non-story – re: Inside Edition) about problems on cruise ships point out that there is no real accountability other than the cruise line itself. And I think that is what scares people who hear these stories.

[waterrats]

What bothers me a bit is that Mr Smith went "missing" in the dark of night, while the woman in Nassau "disappeared" between 9 a.m. and 1 p.m. either while cruising into the Bahamas or docked there. I find it a little more puzzling that no one saw her in daylight hours, during times when many people would up and about on the decks.

 

Jim

 

Did anyone think that with this last disappearance that is actually occurred during the night. The last person to see the wife is the husband. I have not heard of any other reports of seeing the woman during the morning hours. For all anyone knows, she was thrown from the ship during the middle of the night.

[spongerob]

BroncosCruiser, I admire your optimism, but I doubt anything will come out of this that will 1) improve the image of the cruise lines within our news media, 2) improve operations without adding additional cost, or 3) avoid placing additional restrictions on cruise operations and passengers. My fear is that all they will manage to do is make it easy for people to file lawsuits...which we will all end up paying for.

 

This is only being done because it is a story in the news being beaten to death, and therefore those who like to say they are "doing something" have an opportunity to stand in the spotlight for a few minutes. Good managers prioritize the problems they tackle to make sure they do things that will result in the greatest benefit. I think this issue is way, way, down on the list.

[Pam in CA]

Broncocruiser -- you have a lot more faith in your elected officials and their ability to actually accomplish anything than I do. :)

[BroncosCruiser]

Actually, I have almost no faith that Congress can/will improve this situation or most others. :)

 

My main point is that when a group goes before Congress for a perceived or real issue, that group usually proposes a few changes that can be easily/cheaply done and promises to look at other options as well.

 

If another situation arises after the hearing, when the story is told it will include some clip of the cruise lines saying what measures the have taken/will take.

 

I guess I was just suggesting that not much harm will come out of a hearing. At worst, a little bad publicity for the cruise lines for one news cycle. Then it's over.

 

When you hear that legislation is being proposed, that is when you should start worrying! :D

[Colo Cruiser]

Yeah what does Congress have to do with it??

Like spongerob said why dont they investigate all the murders in the world while they were at it.:eek:

[Nitemare]

I blame Gopher. Didn't he become a Congressman? Now he wants to get back on a ship!

[jennew]

I am certain that we would all feel differently if one of our family members were among the missing.

 

There is no clear way to handle such situations at present. When a US citizen is involved then the US government should be concerned- period. If a US citizen is in danger in a foriegn country- the government is expected to intervene. I am glad they are taking this seriously before copy-cat murders begin to happen. Right now there is not a single arrest for a person throwing another passenger overboard. It almost seems too easy.

 

The ships are loaded with cameras and I can't understand how this type of thing happens without SOMEONE seeing it. The tapes can be reviewed. At present no one is holding the cruiselines accountable.

[chrysalis]

how can you possibly hold the cruiseline accountable????

 

"If a US citizen is in danger in a foriegn country- the government is expected to intervene."...people put themselves in danger all the time, and no government can be expected to intervene to keep them out of danger. People have to take some responsibility for their own actions.

[ccrain]

This is a simple case of Congress wanting to hold hearing on an easy target - foreign flagged cruise lines. I will bet you dollars to donuts that some congressman will make a statement asking for legislation to increase regulation of foreign flagged vessels with US cruise ports - to increase safety and security - of course.

 

The stats speak for themselves. 10+million cruisers in 2004 and 10-15 mysterious dissapearances. ( A rate less than 0.15 per 100,000). In 2002, 10.6 per 100,000 people committed suicide, 35.3 died in accidents, 5.9 were assaulted and killed and 9.3 from chronic liver disease or cirrhosis.

 

I really don't want cameras watching everything that goes on down on the Caribe deck balconies...that'l cut down on the free entertainment.