Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[pisces14]

But the wine waiters are nothing to do with auto tips at all they get their tips from their drink sales although it is not visibly added to the price it is still there. They work to a different system and could well pool their tips between them.

 

Tips given to wine waiters have nothing to do with this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

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I disagree if staff can keep tips given to them surely ALL staff given tips can keep them. If waiters can keep tips, if cabin stewards can keep tips then wine waiters can keep tips. Our wine waiter handed it in. As far as I'm concerned you or anyone else on here has no more idea than I have. I stand by what I've said ONLY P&O know.

[grapau27]

I disagree if staff can keep tips given to them surely ALL staff given tips can keep them. If waiters can keep tips, if cabin stewards can keep tips then wine waiters can keep tips. Our wine waiter handed it in. As far as I'm concerned you or anyone else on here has no more idea than I have. I stand by what I've said ONLY P&O know.

Maybe he was frightened of the head wine waiter or they had an agreement to pool any cash tips.

[daiB]

I disagree if staff can keep tips given to them surely ALL staff given tips can keep them. If waiters can keep tips, if cabin stewards can keep tips then wine waiters can keep tips. Our wine waiter handed it in. As far as I'm concerned you or anyone else on here has no more idea than I have. I stand by what I've said ONLY P&O know.

 

 

 

We are discussing auto tips. The wine waiters do not get any of the auto tip pot. How they deal with their tips is up to them. As I said they could share them around their team.

 

 

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[Selbourne]

I am very sorry to burst your bubble and it may well have been a one off but on our last cruise with P&O my husband gave a tip to a wine waiter who had particularly looked after us during our cruise. The next night which was our very last night the bar manager came up and thanked us for the tip. We had meant it for the wine waiter but it had obviously been handed in. I'm afraid after speaking to P&O recently that no-one is ever told the truth. No passenger knows the truth no-one on here knows the truth. We all have to decide for ourselves what we do regarding the gratuities. I'm heartily sick of these threads but one thing I have finally decided is that the only people who know the truth are the management on P&O and they aren't telling anyone.

 

Nice try, but you have not ‘burst my bubble’ I’m afraid. As DaiB has pointed out, wine waiters are NOT beneficiaries of the service charge scheme. They are on entirely different contracts and receive commission on each and every sale that they make. So, whether or not they have to hand in cash tips is irrelevant. It remains factually the case that those staff who are beneficiaries of the service charge scheme (stewards, butlers, restaurant waiters) do NOT have to hand in cash tips.

 

I’m afraid that I can’t help the fact that some people refuse to believe the truth, or simply chose not to in order to support their own agenda, but the one thing that I completely agree with you on is that I am sick and tired of these tipping threads. However, for as long as people continue to spout their own theories as being facts then they will keep cropping up.

 

As to whether people should remove the service charge, that is for them. There are strong arguments both ways. I was always convinced that everyone should pay them but after the last few increases I have come to the view that those of us who have been paying them are being asked to pay more and more in order to make up the shortfall created by those who don’t, and that’s not fair. Regardless of whether we pay them or not, many of us choose to give cash tips to our steward and some waiters and I shall continue to do so safely in the knowledge that they are allowed to keep them.

[insanemagnet]

We are discussing auto tips.

 

There is no such thing as an "auto tip".

 

A tip is something that is given in recognition of good service after the service had been delivered and is given directly to the member of staff by the customer.

 

We are discussing the optional Service Reward charge which is used to fund the waiter's and steward's performance pay delivered through P&O's Service Reward Scheme.

 

A world of difference.

[kersh]

After reading this through a few times I have ( rightly or wrongly) come to the conclusion that it is absolutely pointless to pay auto gratuities.

 

If I leave them them on then my waiters/cabin steward receive exactly the same amount of money in their pocket than if I remove them.

 

However if I remove the auto gratuities and give the tip in cash to the Waiter/ cabin steward then they get their wage from P & O and get to keep the cash as well.

 

As long as I tick excellent on the CSQ then they are happy.

 

Am I missing something here?

[eddie11]

That is the conclusion I have drawn too, though I am in the middle of a long email conversation with ‘high-ups’ at P&O in order to nail it once and for all.

 

At the moment it feels like any money which comes into P&O via auto gratuities stays with P&O. OK from ones point of view as a shareholder but not particularly as a holidaymaker.

 

If offered the choice of “Do you two passengers want this cabin and this service for 2 weeks for this amount, or would you rather pay an additional £200?” there seems only one sensible answer.

[bee-ess]

After reading through this thread I cannot see why anyone would continue to pay the autotip. We stopped paying the autotip last year because we had bad service coupled with the fact that we had no confidence in what happened to the money we paid by autotip and decided to tip by envelope from then on. I don't know P&O will do if everyone decides to remove the autotip.

[daiB]

There is no such thing as an "auto tip".

 

A tip is something that is given in recognition of good service after the service had been delivered and is given directly to the member of staff by the customer.

 

We are discussing the optional Service Reward charge which is used to fund the waiter's and steward's performance pay delivered through P&O's Service Reward Scheme.

 

A world of difference.

In you opinion. In my opinion we are dealing with auto tips.

 

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[daiB]

After reading this through a few times I have ( rightly or wrongly) come to the conclusion that it is absolutely pointless to pay auto gratuities.

 

If I leave them them on then my waiters/cabin steward receive exactly the same amount of money in their pocket than if I remove them.

 

However if I remove the auto gratuities and give the tip in cash to the Waiter/ cabin steward then they get their wage from P & O and get to keep the cash as well.

 

As long as I tick excellent on the CSQ then they are happy.

 

Am I missing something here?

That could be true or not but removing auto tips if you are on freedom is in my opinion depriving the staff as very few will tip every night.

 

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[insanemagnet]

In you opinion. In my opinion we are dealing with auto tips.

 

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And that is the cause of the problem which is resulting in P&O offloading its responsibility to pay its staff.

 

Correct terminology is important, particularly as there is so little similarly between a real tip and an additional charge added to bills before the service takes place and where the recipient of the service has no say in who gets what from their payment.

[daiB]

And that is the cause of the problem which is resulting in P&O offloading its responsibility to pay its staff.

 

Correct terminology is important, particularly as there is so little similarly between a real tip and an additional charge added to bills before the service takes place and where the recipient of the service has no say in who gets what from their payment.

 

 

 

We all know that this is your hobby horse. But are far as I am concerned as well as many others they are auto tips.

 

 

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[grapau27]

After reading this through a few times I have ( rightly or wrongly) come to the conclusion that it is absolutely pointless to pay auto gratuities.

 

If I leave them them on then my waiters/cabin steward receive exactly the same amount of money in their pocket than if I remove them.

 

However if I remove the auto gratuities and give the tip in cash to the Waiter/ cabin steward then they get their wage from P & O and get to keep the cash as well.

 

As long as I tick excellent on the CSQ then they are happy.

 

Am I missing something here?

You make an excellent point and one a lot of us are thinking about and thats why i and others on here emailed P&O asking for gratuitys to be included in the cruise price then everyone contributes.

[grapau27]

That could be true or not but removing auto tips if you are on freedom is in my opinion depriving the staff as very few will tip every night.

 

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That is one area that needs looking at.

Personally if tips were included in the cruise price i would tip nightly in Freedom dining and treat it like i was going to a restaurant in Newcastle or speciality restaurants on the ship.

[grapau27]

And that is the cause of the problem which is resulting in P&O offloading its responsibility to pay its staff.

 

Correct terminology is important, particularly as there is so little similarly between a real tip and an additional charge added to bills before the service takes place and where the recipient of the service has no say in who gets what from their payment.

Both sides have good points so again tips included makes sense and extra cash tips are what they are meant for ie great service.

[insanemagnet]

We all know that this is your hobby horse. But are far as I am concerned as well as many others they are auto tips.

 

 

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And I will repeat, that is the cause of the problem.

 

I fail to understand why you cannot see the obvious difference between -

 

- a cash tip you give to a waiter in reward for good service they delivered to you, and which they are free to do with whatever they want; and

 

- a service charge you pay to P&O which the waiter may never see because they performed poorly on a previous cruise.

[daiB]

And I will repeat, that is the cause of the problem.

 

I fail to understand why you cannot see the obvious difference between -

 

- a cash tip you give to a waiter in reward for good service they delivered to you, and which they are free to do with whatever they want; and

 

- a service charge you pay to P&O which the waiter may never see because they performed poorly on a previous cruise.

 

 

 

You can go on and on about your favourite subject but it is still an auto tip. I pay my tips automatically.

 

Simples.

 

 

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[pisces14]

This is the reply I got from P&O to an email I sent regarding the gratuities. This seems to answer all the questions that people have been asking

 

Any tips which you pay to a member of staff directly are theirs to keep and do not need to be declared or pooled with other members of staff.

If that really is the case does this mean that some staff will receive more than others? That doesn't seem fair. Also how do P&O assess how many passengers are paying gratuities if the staff don't have to declare them and why bring in Auto-tips in the first place?

[insanemagnet]

You can go on and on about your favourite subject but it is still an auto tip. I pay my tips automatically.

 

Simples.

 

 

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So you pay cash automatically and cancel the optional service charge. Fair enough.

[terrierjohn]

You can go on and on about your favourite subject but it is still an auto tip. I pay my tips automatically.

 

Simples.

 

 

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And I will repeat, that is the cause of the problem.

 

I fail to understand why you cannot see the obvious difference between -

 

- a cash tip you give to a waiter in reward for good service they delivered to you, and which they are free to do with whatever they want; and

 

- a service charge you pay to P&O which the waiter may never see because they performed poorly on a previous cruise.

You two can argue semantics all you want when in actual fact P&O call it a service reward scheme, which I suspect is neither a tip nor a service charge, but more like a subsidy towards the P&O wage bill, but you're never to going to agree.

What I would like you both to do is study emam's post #39, showing the P&O reply, and tell me that you do not find it riddled with inconsistencies that are just too contradictory for words, and if true will result in some staff getting a double dose of service reward, whilst the declining number of passengers leaving the auto tip on pay an ever increasing amount so that the P&O bottom line does not suffer.

[daiB]

You two can argue semantics all you want when in actual fact P&O call it a service reward scheme, which I suspect is neither a tip nor a service charge, but more like a subsidy towards the P&O wage bill, but you're never to going to agree.

 

What I would like you both to do is study emam's post #39, showing the P&O reply, and tell me that you do not find it riddled with inconsistencies that are just too contradictory for words, and if true will result in some staff getting a double dose of service reward, whilst the declining number of passengers leaving the auto tip on pay an ever increasing amount so that the P&O bottom line does not suffer.

 

 

 

John still no one knows for certain. Therefore I will pay my auto tip as usual. And consider that the staff on freedom dining must be the ones losing out.

 

I know I am doing the correct thing and I do not care what others do.

 

 

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[bee-ess]

John still no one knows for certain. Therefore I will pay my auto tip as usual. And consider that the staff on freedom dining must be the ones losing out.

 

I know I am doing the correct thing and I do not care what others do.

 

 

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I agree Dai, we all know as much about this as we are going to - so why can we all not just let others do as they see fit.

[insanemagnet]

John still no one knows for certain. Therefore I will pay my auto tip as usual. And consider that the staff on freedom dining must be the ones losing out.

 

I know I am doing the correct thing and I do not care what others do.

 

 

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By paying the optional service charge and not tipping in cash you are of course aware it is the staff who serve you who are losing out.

[janny444]

Hi...as this thread is showing there will never be full agreement on this subject. For me the sooner the " service charge" is included in the fare the better...as the " service charge is clearly to subsidise their wages and not for any service received ...or not received....service is a basic requirement of the job ....doesn't require any extra acknowledgement... only if they have done above and beyond. As I have stated before I have worked in the service industry on extremely low pay for long hours and a smile....courtesy and treatment of people was part of it....didn't expect any extra " tip" for doing that.

[yuvraj]

I could be wrong but if the auto-gratuities contribute towards a bonus pot then it is not a wage subsidy. It is a premium and the amount shared out depends on how much has been pooled from contributions. That is no different to tips which are pooled.

 

As I said, I could be wrong but not many on this thread have considered this as a possibility.

 

The sinister part is how the tips are distributed. That part is not transparent and IMO unfair if driven simply by guest surveys.