Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[majortom10]

Correct but these are the staff in the MDR and not the buffet. Remember it replaced the system of giving staff their tips in an envelope as per the booklet you got in the cabin. No mention of the buffet staff was made then or has been made since.

 

 

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Taken from P&Os website with up to date information-

 

With our Service Reward Programme, a discretionary daily amount of £7.00* is added to your on-board account for each guest aged 12 and over. This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work.

[jeanlyon]

 

Well the 2 waiters worked as a team so it was standard practice to give the envelope to the lead waiter.

 

In the buffet there was a box to put tips. Remember very few people would only use the buffet. Certainly the few times I have been in there were more staff than passengers

 

We always give our waiters an envelope each and one for the Wine Waiter if they were good.

[CCFC]

 

We always give our waiters an envelope each and one for the Wine Waiter if they were good.

 

We do the same, its a rare time that they don't get anything.

[Eglesbrech]

Wouldn’t it all be so much easier if P&O would give transparent answers to customer questions then everyone could do as they saw fit, based on actual fact.

 

Until they do so a lot of this type of discussion will always be conjecture and conspiracy theories. Lack of clarity makes people suspicious and there is still a lack of clarity around this subject.

 

All most people need to know is that all of the money they pay is actually going to the staff they think it is and not in to P&O profits.

 

In the past I have always paid the auto tips and added a bit where service merited it. It was easier because we tend to use freedom dining and tipping each night would be a faff. I am however seriously considering cancelling and paying in cash until such times as I know where and to whom my money is going, particularly when the costs keeps rising above well above inflation.

[insanemagnet]

All most people need to know is that all of the money they pay is actually going to the staff they think it is and not in to P&O profits.

 

The purpose of the optional service charge is to increase P&O's profits.

 

By operating the scheme they can reduce the headline price of the cruise by not needing to include the bulk of the wage bill for a significant number of staff.

 

The result is they sell more cruises and take more money from onboard spend with the ships sailing at capacity.

 

Meanwhile it is the staff who are taking the risk that customers don't pay the optional charge and so reducing the amount in the pool to distribute into their pay packet.

 

Make no mistake there is no way P&O loses whether passengers pay the charge, pay cash, or pay nothing. The only impact for P&O is increased profits.

[pisces14]

The purpose of the optional service charge is to increase P&O's profits.

 

By operating the scheme they can reduce the headline price of the cruise by not needing to include the bulk of the wage bill for a significant number of staff.

 

The result is they sell more cruises and take more money from onboard spend with the ships sailing at capacity.

 

Meanwhile it is the staff who are taking the risk that customers don't pay the optional charge and so reducing the amount in the pool to distribute into their pay packet.

 

Make no mistake there is no way P&O loses whether passengers pay the charge, pay cash, or pay nothing. The only impact for P&O is increased profits.

 

Surely if the service charge were simply to increase P&O's profit they would have already included them in the price of the cruise. If not then they really are relying on those who pay the gratuities to subsidise other people's cruises in spite of what some say to the contrary.

[CRUISIN LINDA]

Dai, you need to circulate around the ship a bit more, the buffet is always full for breakfast, and on our recent Caribbean cruise on Ventura it was extremely well patronised in the evening, especially on Indian/Asian nights.

We chatted with the head waiter in there one night and he said they normally serve about 500/600 most nights, and up to 800/900 on popular menu evenings.

We use the buffet for all our meals as we find the portions too large in the MDR. We remove our tips, and give a tip to our steward. I shall certainly suggest in the comments at the end of our cruise that they are included as Thomson and some other cruise lines do.

[wowzz]

We use the buffet for all our meals as we find the portions too large in the MDR. We remove our tips, and give a tip to our steward. I shall certainly suggest in the comments at the end of our cruise that they are included as Thomson and some other cruise lines do.

Too large! That must be a first. I have to ask for extra chips/veg etc, otherwise a late visit to the buffet is called for.

 

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[insanemagnet]

Surely if the service charge were simply to increase P&O's profit they would have already included them in the price of the cruise. If not then they really are relying on those who pay the gratuities to subsidise other people's cruises in spite of what some say to the contrary.

 

If P&O were to include the service charge in the price of the cruise the cost of the cruise would rise. Many people buy on price, so higher prices means fewer cruises sold. Fewer cruises sold means lower profits.

 

P&O don't care whether someone pays the service charge or not. If you don't pay then P&O don't have to make up the difference for the Service Reward Scheme; the staff just get less in their pay packet.

 

Yes P&O are relying on those who chose to pay to subsidise the cruises of those who don't, since there is no way the waiters and stewards would sign on for the basic pay as the bulk of their pay comes from the Service Reward Scheme.

 

So what is the incentive for P&O to change this system? Nothing whilst enough people continue to pay the optional service charge.

[grapau27]

If P&O were to include the service charge in the price of the cruise the cost of the cruise would rise. Many people buy on price, so higher prices means fewer cruises sold. Fewer cruises sold means lower profits.

 

P&O don't care whether someone pays the service charge or not. If you don't pay then P&O don't have to make up the difference for the Service Reward Scheme; the staff just get less in their pay packet.

 

Yes P&O are relying on those who chose to pay to subsidise the cruises of those who don't, since there is no way the waiters and stewards would sign on for the basic pay as the bulk of their pay comes from the Service Reward Scheme.

 

So what is the incentive for P&O to change this system? Nothing whilst enough people continue to pay the optional service charge.

I think if they advertise

'Tips Included'

they might even get more passengers.

When RCL offered

'Free drinks packages'

to the UK they filled the ships and they had added around £250pppw onto the pre offer price.

[NoFlyGuy]

insanemagnet - Why then do some other cruise lines sell cruises with 'tips included' if it's not in their interest? They still seem to manage to sell their cruises.

[P-L-B]

I don't understand why people that are not happy with the current situation with P&O don't vote with their feet and book an alternative cruise line.

 

After all P&O are not forcing anyone to book with them under their current arrangements and T's & C's.

[insanemagnet]

insanemagnet - Why then do some other cruise lines sell cruises with 'tips included' if it's not in their interest? They still seem to manage to sell their cruises.

 

Because at the moment P&O attract a mainly traditional customer base who are reasonably compliant in paying the optional charge.

 

Other companies who attract a non-traditional customer, for example NCL in the UK and Europe, have introduced 'tips included' fares because most of their customers were opting out (the same cruises sold by NCL in the United States still have a service charge as Americans want that).

 

On P&O I feel like am one of the youngest passengers on board. On NCL I feel like one of the oldest.

 

I don't understand why people that are not happy with the current situation with P&O don't vote with their feet and book an alternative cruise line.

 

After all P&O are not forcing anyone to book with them under their current arrangements and T's & C's.

 

Which customers are you referring to?

 

Those who accept the tradition of 'tips' but dislike the possibility that other people are 'cheating' by not paying the optional charge or those who choose not to pay the optional charge.

 

I would suggest the first group tend to be elderly and want to sail from the UK so don;t have any choice, and the second group take P&O at their word and treat the charge as optional so they don't actually disagree with the T&Cs.

[terrierjohn]

I don't understand why people that are not happy with the current situation with P&O don't vote with their feet and book an alternative cruise line.

 

After all P&O are not forcing anyone to book with them under their current arrangements and T's & C's.

Because we like a lot of their other features. Surely we can still complain about elements of their holiday package which we would like to see improved without having to up sticks to someone else?

[NoFlyGuy]

Must admit the charging structure seems strange to me.

 

I always book 'Select' and on the one hand P&O offer OBC which, once you have looked at your account, has gone or all but gone in many cases because of the service charge being applied, albeit optional.

 

Reading all these posts there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer as to whether the crew members do or don't suffer if large numbers of passengers remove the service charge.

 

As I have posted before 'please just quote me a price for a full board cruise and then let me decide whether to book or not'.

 

If I then wish to tip any individuals that's entirely my choice.

[NoFlyGuy]

terrierjohn - Agree entirely.

[Presto2]

terrierjohn - Agree entirely.

 

Agree 100% - there is no perfect cruise line. I suppose we will never find a cruise line that is exactly what we want --- it has to be best fit. ;)

[P-L-B]

Because at the moment P&O attract a mainly traditional customer base who are reasonably compliant in paying the optional charge.

 

Other companies who attract a non-traditional customer, for example NCL in the UK and Europe, have introduced 'tips included' fares because most of their customers were opting out (the same cruises sold by NCL in the United States still have a service charge as Americans want that).

 

On P&O I feel like am one of the youngest passengers on board. On NCL I feel like one of the oldest.

 

 

 

Which customers are you referring to?

 

Those who accept the tradition of 'tips' but dislike the possibility that other people are 'cheating' by not paying the optional charge or those who choose not to pay the optional charge.

 

I would suggest the first group tend to be elderly and want to sail from the UK so don;t have any choice, and the second group take P&O at their word and treat the charge as optional so they don't actually disagree with the T&Cs.

Pleased to see although in my late 60's I apparently fit into your younger second group passenger profile and therefore have no problems with P&O's current arrangements.

Also, looking forward to flying out to Malta in a couple of weeks time to board Oceana.

Although, I must admit I do like Sailing from Southampton.:D

[Bobblehat71]

Any one seen this yet . This is pretty low.

 

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPNI190U3qQqglzYdcX7YdgUU7pQNzvPqlKiMeN

 

[Selbourne]

Any one seen this yet . This is pretty low.

 

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPNI190U3qQqglzYdcX7YdgUU7pQNzvPqlKiMeN

 

 

Cannot open it.

[Bobblehat71]

Cannot open it.

 

Try this:

 

[Selbourne]

Try this:

 

 

 

Thanks. That worked! That just seems to be a version of the form that all guests removing the service charge are asked to complete and reads as though it is sent to the cabins of those who have asked for the charge to be removed but haven't answered the questions on the form. Nothing sinister about that.

[Bobblehat71]

Thanks. That worked! That just seems to be a version of the form that all guests removing the service charge are asked to complete and reads as though it is sent to the cabins of those who have asked for the charge to be removed but haven't answered the questions on the form. Nothing sinister about that.

 

It certainly removes any doubt about whether or not the cabin stewards know who has removed their tips :D:D

[Selbourne]

It certainly removes any doubt about whether or not the cabin stewards know who has removed their tips :D:D

 

That's very true!

 

As a point of interest, I was waiting at reception on Aurora the other week and a lady in front of me was complaining that she had completed the form to have the service charge removed but it was still showing on her account. The young lady on reception apologised and held up a huge pile of forms and said "I've got loads of them to process and haven't got around to doing them all yet". Confirmed to me the conclusions that many of us have reluctantly drawn, that fewer and fewer of us are being asked to pay more and more and the only way to stop the cycle is for everyone to stop paying them and force P&O to increase fares for everyone so that nobody can avoid them.

[Brayman]

That's very true!

 

As a point of interest, I was waiting at reception on Aurora the other week and a lady in front of me was complaining that she had completed the form to have the service charge removed but it was still showing on her account. The young lady on reception apologised and held up a huge pile of forms and said "I've got loads of them to process and haven't got around to doing them all yet". Confirmed to me the conclusions that many of us have reluctantly drawn, that fewer and fewer of us are being asked to pay more and more and the only way to stop the cycle is for everyone to stop paying them and force P&O to increase fares for everyone so that nobody can avoid them.

 

Or remove the option to cancel auto-tips - simple!!