Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[grapau27]

We got off a cruise this week.

We have always left our autotips on and some times given waiters extra for exceptional service. We felt our waiter didn't warrant any extra this time so thanked him and said our tips were charged to the cabin.

Others handed him envelopes, they had told us they had cancelled their autotips; the women rceived kisses and the men handshakes, we didn't even get a thank you, just a blank look. Who knows what was in the envelopes, it may well have been less than autotips.

Do they now expect autotips and the envelope?

We made a decision to cancel autotips in future on the drive home.

You make a very interesting and telling point.

I know of someone who puts very little cash in the envelope and never writes on who they are but milks the thanks.

Daib is correct about the Freedom dining but it is certainly food for thought if you are in club dining and made to feel awkward when you had left autogratuities on and were treated disrespectfully by the waiters who made it obvious that it was the cash in the envelopes they were after.

[grapau27]

Like you I had thought of removing the tips and paying cash to the staff. After reading Selbourne's

reply to me that hundreds of people are removing the auto-tips I'm not really sure it's something we could do. I really would not be able to look my cabin steward or butler in the face if I had one of those letters delivered to my cabin.

It seems like the use of emotional blackmail.

Your cruise should be a happy occasion not stressful.

[dorsetlad]

And that could, of course, be another reason why they’ve started doing it! I suspect that many people feel the same and would be embarrassed if the cabin steward delivered the letter, so may leave the service charge on next time!

You would just need to inform your cabin steward that you will tip him personally, he would then probably try to please you even more, so that you tip more. If however, you cancel auto tips and have no intention to tip personally, that is when you might not be able to look him/her in the face when the letter arrives.

[grapau27]

And that could, of course, be another reason why they’ve started doing it! I suspect that many people feel the same and would be embarrassed if the cabin steward delivered the letter, so may leave the service charge on next time!

What it does is encourage people to leave autotips on or remove autogratuities on the last night.

[wowzz]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you had to remove the auto tips I'm the first couple of days of the cruise.

 

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[Expat Cruise]

Again I agree terrierjohn. The original post was concerning the 40% increase in auto gratuities in a short space of time, far exceeding inflation.

 

If you are happy to continue to pay the increased auto gratuities then fine, that's your prerogative.

 

However if you would prefer gratuities to be included in the advertised fare then doing nothing is not really an option. Change will only come about if enough potential passengers contact P&O to complain or suggest changes regarding the auto gratuities....

.

 

They will not include them as a real service fee because it has to many tax and legal issues that would go with this change. If you search the internet you will find many reports like this one:

 

"On most cruise liners, there’s a mandatory gratuity too which is divided up amongst all the employees! This means that even the crew members that don’t receive too many tips in the course of their work won’t go without."

 

By switching these costs from payroll to guest tips the lines save millions of dollars in taxes, and just as important cut the liability they would have if crew is hurt, or killed on the job. Much more going on here than people think.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you had to remove the auto tips I'm the first couple of days of the cruise.

 

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Can be removed anytime you like. In fact you could wait until off the cruise and dispute the auto service fee when charged to your credit card. While not what I would do it could be done. A dispute and a copy of the policy and that you never agreed to the fee.

[terrierjohn]

They will not include them as a real service fee because it has to many tax and legal issues that would go with this change. If you search the internet you will find many reports like this one:

 

"On most cruise liners, there’s a mandatory gratuity too which is divided up amongst all the employees! This means that even the crew members that don’t receive too many tips in the course of their work won’t go without."

 

By switching these costs from payroll to guest tips the lines save millions of dollars in taxes, and just as important cut the liability they would have if crew is hurt, or killed on the job. Much more going on here than people think.

I have certainly heard that argument before, however a lot of cruise lines do now include tips in their cruise fare, so they are somehow managing these issues without it causing them too many problems.

[daiB]

This is all speculation. No one knows the truth at all.

 

All it does is it allows those who do not want to tip to ease their conscience about not paying them. We have had nearly 200 posts and we are in the same position as when we started in fact the same as when the last 3/4/5/6/7 or more threads finished.

 

 

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[pisces14]

It seems like the use of emotional blackmail.

Your cruise should be a happy occasion not stressful.

Like you I've spoken to P&O with my suggestion they include the gratuities in the price of the cruise. I'd decided to fill out the form removing the auto-tips and suggest again they be included in the price of the cruise. I'm not sure now that I want that form sent to my cabin. It's not that I'd find it stressful more embarrassing if I'm honest. If we did decide to remove the auto-tips we could as someone suggested let the staff know we intended to pay by cash and they would have to trust we would do that. Although I suppose we could give them the money at the start of the cruise. :confused:

[Expat Cruise]

I have certainly heard that argument before, however a lot of cruise lines do now include tips in their cruise fare, so they are somehow managing these issues without it causing them too many problems.

 

And you have found the golden ticket here. If it is a Gratuity that is include for the convenience of the guest it is not a service fee and not subject to all the extra paperwork and liabilities of a service fee.

 

 

But a Gratuity must be optional and freely paid by the guest without obligation. And that is the catch 22, the cruise lines want the guest to believe it is a service fee and they should pay it. Guest failing to pay will cause great harm and hardship to the poor crew.

 

 

Then in true Con Man style to the government and the tax man they say it is a optional Gratuity and not a service fee that is given to the poor hard working crew and there not subject to being taxed to the cruise lines.

 

 

It is a great con game that has worked for many years. But it is still like all con games stealing.

[jeanlyon]

Like you I've spoken to P&O with my suggestion they include the gratuities in the price of the cruise. I'd decided to fill out the form removing the auto-tips and suggest again they be included in the price of the cruise. I'm not sure now that I want that form sent to my cabin. It's not that I'd find it stressful more embarrassing if I'm honest. If we did decide to remove the auto-tips we could as someone suggested let the staff know we intended to pay by cash and they would have to trust we would do that. Although I suppose we could give them the money at the start of the cruise. :confused:

 

It's nothing to do with the staff if you have removed the auto tips. I certainly wouldn't discuss it with them, and I definitely wouldn't give it at the beginning. You don't tip in a restaurant before you have had any service? I don't give my hairdresser her tip before she's done my hair?

[AL ZYMER]

For me tipping is an outdated practice and we should make a stand to support the human rights of those made to be dependant on it. It wont happen overnight, though Australia,UK,Germany and much of EU are now happy to round off a bill. I lived and worked in the USA for 15 years so was thrown into it big time.

Although I believe tipping started in England a couple of hundred years ago it was taken to the States and used to exploit people of many of the basic rights we have today.They then took it with them on their travels around the globe (military and travel) and influenced others.

Tipping is usually handed out to those you feel are less than you,.....to buy friendship,favouritism,display wealth etc.

Who tips nurses. for long hours or extra care? Who tipped me when I went over and above in my work with the general public. I didnt expect it and a big thank you made me feel proud. I was getting a fair wage for what I did and we should do what we can to give others their dignity and self respect.

A Google search will tell you what the fat cats in cruising make on the backs of others.

[jeanlyon]

I don't feel anybody is less or more than me! I treat everybody the same. Especially as I been dealing with the general public for 40 years. First as a Stewardess and even now at the Harbour where I work. Did I ever get tipped, yes occasionally a First Class passenger would buy us a perfume from the aircraft, but not often. It's just customary for waiters, hairdressers and staff on a ship. If they did a bad job, I wouldn't tip, but they always do a good job, so it's just a thank you.

[AL ZYMER]

My post was to air what is a popular view on the tipping culture Jean. Stand by it. Not aimed at individual choices. You sound like a kind caring person too. Your life experiences have followed a different path. Lets hope the first class passenger who tipped you didnt think he was better than you!

[grapau27]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you had to remove the auto tips I'm the first couple of days of the cruise.

 

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I have never removed ours but i know on RC lots of people do that on last night.

[grapau27]

Like you I've spoken to P&O with my suggestion they include the gratuities in the price of the cruise. I'd decided to fill out the form removing the auto-tips and suggest again they be included in the price of the cruise. I'm not sure now that I want that form sent to my cabin. It's not that I'd find it stressful more embarrassing if I'm honest. If we did decide to remove the auto-tips we could as someone suggested let the staff know we intended to pay by cash and they would have to trust we would do that. Although I suppose we could give them the money at the start of the cruise. :confused:

Your right embarrassing is the word.

A suggestion might be to tell the CS you are tipping everyone including him in cash.

[grapau27]

For me tipping is an outdated practice and we should make a stand to support the human rights of those made to be dependant on it. It wont happen overnight, though Australia,UK,Germany and much of EU are now happy to round off a bill. I lived and worked in the USA for 15 years so was thrown into it big time.

Although I believe tipping started in England a couple of hundred years ago it was taken to the States and used to exploit people of many of the basic rights we have today.They then took it with them on their travels around the globe (military and travel) and influenced others.

Tipping is usually handed out to those you feel are less than you,.....to buy friendship,favouritism,display wealth etc.

Who tips nurses. for long hours or extra care? Who tipped me when I went over and above in my work with the general public. I didnt expect it and a big thank you made me feel proud. I was getting a fair wage for what I did and we should do what we can to give others their dignity and self respect.

A Google search will tell you what the fat cats in cruising make on the backs of others.

Very good post.

[mickrory]

I don't feel anybody is less or more than me! I treat everybody the same. Especially as I been dealing with the general public for 40 years. First as a Stewardess and even now at the Harbour where I work. Did I ever get tipped, yes occasionally a First Class passenger would buy us a perfume from the aircraft, but not often. It's just customary for waiters, hairdressers and staff on a ship. If they did a bad job, I wouldn't tip, but they always do a good job, so it's just a thank you.

 

I haven't really thought about it before but like Jean says we accept that hairdressers, waiters, cruise ship crew, porters, taxi drivers are ocupations where tips are expected and are the norm. Bar staff is optional "one for yourself" but we never dream of tipping shop staff, fast food joint staff, bus/tram drivers etc who are all part of the service industry.

 

It would make life easier for all if the tips were included in the cruise fare like Silversea and Marella already do.

[hooked-cruiser]

Having returned to Southampton only yesterday aboard the Azura I can tell you that on the 1st Sea day out there was a continuous queue at the Pursers desk and virtually everybody was requesting the form to vary or cancel gratuities.

 

One new thing P&O are doing now is on the 2nd to last sea day before the end of the cruise and in the early afternoon they are placing an A4 sized letter to the occupants of the cabins who have stopped gratuities in the pigeon box outside the cabin with the name of the passenger CLEARLY VISIBLE for anybody passing to see. (All other correspondence is fold inwards).

This letter asks you to re-consider your reduction of gratuities and requests you to visit the reception to do so.

 

There were many passengers who I both spoke too and heard discussing the subject annoyed with this apparent shaming letter and I would suspect that like myself they screwed them up and threw them in the bin provided. Shame on Management to do this. My stewards received what I believed was a good gratuity for the excellent service provided.:mad::mad:

[wowzz]

Looks like the management are getting worried. And which bright spark thought that such a letter would do anything but antagonize people?

 

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[Eglesbrech]

This is all speculation. No one knows the truth at all.

 

All it does is it allows those who do not want to tip to ease their conscience about not paying them. We have had nearly 200 posts and we are in the same position as when we started in fact the same as when the last 3/4/5/6/7 or more threads finished.

 

 

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I agree that know one knows the truth, perhaps P&O should enlighten us all.

 

Those who don’t tip have every right to do so. P&O allows them to. I don’t agree with them but it’s their choice.

 

I have read tipping threads over the years and they do go over the same old ground however I get the feeling that the constant overinflated increases and lack of clear information about where our money actually goes is beginning to cause a shift in opinion. I think people may change what they do.

 

I for one am seriously considering how I will tip in future (and before I get shot down not if, how)

Edited April 7, 2018 by Eglesbrech
Typo

[jeanlyon]

Unbelievably bad marketing idea. It really will do the opposite and make people remoive them. terrible idea. Can they make them compulsory?

[bee-ess]

Looks like the management are getting worried. And which bright spark thought that such a letter would do anything but antagonize people?

 

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All this will do is make more people cancel the autotip - PR nightmare as usual from P&O.

 

I wont feel ashamed at all, I will tell the CS and the waiters from the outset that we are cancelling the tip and that we will tip by envelope.

[Eglesbrech]

Unbelievably bad marketing idea. It really will do the opposite and make people remoive them. terrible idea. Can they make them compulsory?

 

Yes very bad idea and as you say probably counterproductive.

 

They can only make them compulsory if people are clearly advised of the cost, prominently, at the time of booking. That’s what they have been trying to avoid up until now.

[jeanlyon]

I am definitely not telling my cabin steward. It's no business of his what I do and if you can remove tips at any time, he has no need to know. If they do know, I have never noticed any difference in service. I shall tip as usual on the last day before Southampton. What idiot at Southampton thought of this letter? Just bound to antagonize, as can be seen by the Facebook page.!