Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[wowzz]

Or remove the option to cancel auto-tips - simple!!

 

If you remove the option to remove them, and they therefore become compulsory, P&O will have to include the cost of the tips in all their fares.

Which is basically I think everyone wants them to do, apart from those cruisers who remove the auto-tips and tip well below the auto-tip rate, if indeed they tip at all.

[grapau27]

Or remove the option to cancel auto-tips - simple!!

Compulsory service charge should be less if everyone pays it.

[Bobblehat71]

Compulsory service charge should be less if everyone pays it.

 

 

Its already far less then many other cruise lines. Which is why I suspect more and more cruisers have gotten into the habit of removing them.Its not increased because there are less paying it, it has increased because they know they can and it is still far less than other cruise lines.

 

If you look at this logically the idea of prepaying tips is totally bizarre.

 

I only saw my cabin steward twice on my last cruise.He did no more or less than he was employed/paid to do .eg. make the bed , clean the bathroom etc. Did he deserve a tip or service reward for this? No he didn't. Same goes for the waiters and bar staff.They did the jobs they were paid to do.No more and no less.

 

If I get great service or someone goes out of they way to help then I will happily give tips but tipping someone just for doing their job is just nonsense.

[jeanlyon]

Well, not quite nonsense. I tip my hairdresser. She's only doing her job. But her price is excellent so I give a little more. Why do we tip in restaurants? However, I do remove the auto tips and do it my way. If they make it compulsory, they will have to be upfront with it and make it part of the cruise price.

[NoFlyGuy]

I usually tip in restaurants but I do it after I have received the service, not before.

[insanemagnet]

If you remove the option to remove them, and they therefore become compulsory, P&O will have to include the cost of the tips in all their fares.

Which is basically I think everyone wants them to do, apart from those cruisers who remove the auto-tips and tip well below the auto-tip rate, if indeed they tip at all.

 

That isn't correct.

 

It isn't only those who don't pay them who don't want them included in the fare.

 

It is P&O who don't want them included in the fare.

[grapau27]

That isn't correct.

 

It isn't only those who don't pay them who don't want them included in the fare.

 

It is P&O who don't want them included in the fare.

The American lines don't want compulsory service charges because it increases their tax liability.

[wowzz]

That isn't correct.

 

It isn't only those who don't pay them who don't want them included in the fare.

 

It is P&O who don't want them included in the fare.

Which is what I was trying to say, perhaps badly!

 

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[insanemagnet]

The American lines don't want compulsory service charges because it increases their tax liability.

Could you explain why you think that as I would have thought including service charges would reduce their tax liability.

 

Although including service charges increases turnover obviously tax isn't based on turnover but profit. With the service charge included in the fare the company would get a deduction for the additonal wage bill that is covered by the service charge. So $x collected in service charge and $x paid out in wages = no additional tax.

 

On the other hand not including the service charge in the fare means you have a reduced turnover but also a reduced cost of wages as those are now paid out of the 'tip' pool. However as the headline fare is lower you have probably sold more cruises than you would have done with an inclusive price, so made more profit and pay more tax.

 

I suppose there is the theoretical issue of whatever the American equivalent of employers NI, but as all the ships are flagged out it doesn't apply.

[grapau27]

Could you explain why you think that as I would have thought including service charges would reduce their tax liability.

 

Although including service charges increases turnover obviously tax isn't based on turnover but profit. With the service charge included in the fare the company would get a deduction for the additonal wage bill that is covered by the service charge. So $x collected in service charge and $x paid out in wages = no additional tax.

 

On the other hand not including the service charge in the fare means you have a reduced turnover but also a reduced cost of wages as those are now paid out of the 'tip' pool. However as the headline fare is lower you have probably sold more cruises than you would have done with an inclusive price, so made more profit and pay more tax.

 

I suppose there is the theoretical issue of whatever the American equivalent of employers NI, but as all the ships are flagged out it doesn't apply.

I wasn't talking about putting it on the fare but as a compulsory charge on everyone's sea pass.

This was mentioned by several posters on RCCL threads.

I am one who has emailed and spoke to P&O about including gratuitys in the overall cruise price.

[wowzz]

I wasn't talking about putting it on the fare but as a compulsory charge on everyone's sea pass.

This was mentioned by several posters on RCCL threads.

I am one who has emailed and spoke to P&O about including gratuitys in the overall cruise price.

If it is a compulsory charge, then afaik P&0 then have to show it as part of their fare, as it is a non-discretionary fee.

 

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[grapau27]

If it is a compulsory charge, then afaik P&0 then have to show it as part of their fare, as it is a non-discretionary fee.

 

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I told P&O gratuitys should be included in the total fare.

Regarding service charge i was repeating what several posters said about RCCL.

[AL ZYMER]

I have been following this thread from the start and would like to chip in if I may with a few points.

Third world countries have exported their labour for more than a hundred years. Its what they do. No need for feeling guilt about it on the ship. When you go ashore for coffee,Mcdonalds. hotel,etc etc its all there, out front or in the back. It is done across the board from skilled to unskilled workers. I have worked abroad and alongside these mostly hard working people from time to time and picked up a few things. They do it of course for the money.

Example Cabin steward pay on a leading cruise line is approx.(dollar conversion) £857.00 a month.

Avr earnings per month for the Philippines is around £200.00 a month. The India sub continent is even less. These are National averages so it may be that our ship stewards and waiters may be getting even less at home,if they have a job.

If we assume that 10 cabins are serviced a day and out of the potential £14.00 he/she gets a fiver, thats £50 a day,or £300.00 for a 6 day week on top of their base earnings. ....throw in food and board also.

Do I think our waiters and cabin stewards get this . No I do not. That is why I go along with the posts that support withholding the tipping charge and dealing with the matter in your own way.

PS Just so you know . The internet will tell you the wages of all crew from captain down to kitchen assistant!

[terrierjohn]

The tipping procedure for stewards and wait staff is rather anachronistic, and whilst it served pre and immediate post war cruise staff well, it now seems old fashioned and not really fit for purpose.

As far as how cruise lines should operate it for the 21st century, that's for each cruise line to decide, the latest to include it in the headline fare is Marella and this would be my favoured approach. But wages in company accounts always attract an overhead charge, which is one reason I have been given as to why cruise lines don't favour this approach, why this might have an adverse impact on profits or tax liability I have no idea.

However whilst the gratuities remain discretionary the system is unfair on those passengers who pay them, and as far as I can see the only way to rectify this is for all passengers to cease paying tips, this leaves the cruise line footing the entire wage bill, which is how it should be. They would then presumably increase prices to cover their extra costs, thus problem solved, and that would leave passengers free to give a little extra to individuals who have provided extra special service, if they felt so inclined.

[Expat Cruise]

I'm coming late to this thread have read all the comments and see no reason to add many replies here.

 

Like all the cruise lines this is nothing but a con of the guest. It is not a gratuity as it does not meet the definition of a gratuity. The cruise line wants you to believe it is a gratuity becasue if they called it a service fee it would cause legal and tax issues.

The cruise lines own published information. " A discretionary amount of £7.00 is added to your on-board account each day, for each guest aged 12 and over. This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work.

It means you can relax and enjoy your holiday, knowing tips are taken care of.

The Service Reward appears on your on-board account statement as a ‘service charge’ and is confirmed in your holiday information booklet, accessed through your Cruise Personaliser. If you wish to change the amount of service charge you pay, simply contact Reception."

Clearly says you can change the amount, which also means you can make the amount zero. If the line ever tried to question me about the change I would tell them read the policy and that is my only comment.

I control who I tip and when I tip, it is my money, I earned it and will spend as I see fit. I will always follow the contract and the laws in place. More than that I do not care what anyone says, believes, or thinks, others are free to do as they want as I also am free to do the some.

Safe and Happy Cruising to All.

[insanemagnet]

I told P&O gratuitys should be included in the total fare.

Regarding service charge i was repeating what several posters said about RCCL.

RCCL being an American company can probably play fast and loose by having a compulsory charge which isn't in the fare; in fact if you put through a trial booking on most American cruise sites the base fare is dirt cheap and then a whole lot of taxes and other charges are added at the end.

 

P&O being British and selling to British customers doesn't have this luxury so would have to show any compulsory charge in the headline fare.

[pisces14]

Thanks. That worked! That just seems to be a version of the form that all guests removing the service charge are asked to complete and reads as though it is sent to the cabins of those who have asked for the charge to be removed but haven't answered the questions on the form. Nothing sinister about that.

Are you saying this is not a new thing but the usual form people fill in when they remove the auto-tips? There seems to be quite an outcry on P&O's Facebook page with some people saying it's intimidation. So I assumed it was a new thing.

[Eglesbrech]

Are you saying this is not a new thing but the usual form people fill in when they remove the auto-tips? There seems to be quite an outcry on P&O's Facebook page with some people saying it's intimidation. So I assumed it was a new thing.

 

I would be interested to know that as well.

 

We have never removed the auto tips so I don’t know what they normally do. As we are now considering removing them and tipping by cash in protest at the lack of clarity around all this and regular above inflation rises it would be interesting to know what to expect.

 

 

Delivering a letter to the cabin does ensure that the staff know exactly who has removed tips and I have never heard anyone mention this happening before so I also assumed that it was new.

 

 

Some of the regulars on here remove and tip in cash so they should be able to clarify.

[davecttr]

The tipping procedure for stewards and wait staff is rather anachronistic, and whilst it served pre and immediate post war cruise staff well, it now seems old fashioned and not really fit for purpose.

As far as how cruise lines should operate it for the 21st century, that's for each cruise line to decide, the latest to include it in the headline fare is Marella and this would be my favoured approach. But wages in company accounts always attract an overhead charge, which is one reason I have been given as to why cruise lines don't favour this approach, why this might have an adverse impact on profits or tax liability I have no idea.

However whilst the gratuities remain discretionary the system is unfair on those passengers who pay them, and as far as I can see the only way to rectify this is for all passengers to cease paying tips, this leaves the cruise line footing the entire wage bill, which is how it should be. They would then presumably increase prices to cover their extra costs, thus problem solved, and that would leave passengers free to give a little extra to individuals who have provided extra special service, if they felt so inclined.

I have been cruising with Marella/TUI/Thomson for 10 years and they have always included the tips in the fare so business wise it must work well for them and the crew

[jeanlyon]

I would be interested to know that as well.

 

We have never removed the auto tips so I don’t know what they normally do. As we are now considering removing them and tipping by cash in protest at the lack of clarity around all this and regular above inflation rises it would be interesting to know what to expect.

 

 

Delivering a letter to the cabin does ensure that the staff know exactly who has removed tips and I have never heard anyone mention this happening before so I also assumed that it was new.

 

Some of the regulars on here remove and tip in cash so they should be able to clarify.

 

I'm sure it's new. We usually remove tips and give cash and have never had a letter before. I'll let you know this week!!

[insanemagnet]

I have been cruising with Marella/TUI/Thomson for 10 years and they have always included the tips in the fare so business wise it must work well for them and the crew

It works for them because they are selling to a different market segment.

 

P&O sell mainly to traditional cruisers who will voluntary hand over money when they are not obliged to do so.

 

TUI sell package holidays and if you snuck a (non-disclosed) optional charge on the bill the refusal rate would be rather high.

 

The optional Service Charge will continue on P&O whilst its customer base remains as it is and the majority of people hand over money when they are not required to.

[wowzz]

I would be interested to know that as well.

 

We have never removed the auto tips so I don’t know what they normally do. As we are now considering removing them and tipping by cash in protest at the lack of clarity around all this and regular above inflation rises it would be interesting to know what to expect.

 

 

Delivering a letter to the cabin does ensure that the staff know exactly who has removed tips and I have never heard anyone mention this happening before so I also assumed that it was new.

 

 

Some of the regulars on here remove and tip in cash so they should be able to clarify.

Isn't it possible that if your steward knows that you have removed the auto tips, he/she will work even harder, knowing that you are likely to tip in person? And he will also get a share of the tip pool, assuming he gets a good score from you in the cruise questionnaire.

 

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[NoFlyGuy]

We are off on Britannia on Sunday.

Will be interesting to see if we get a letter when I have the service charge removed.

Won't be joining any crush at the start of the cruise - will remove it later on.

[jeanlyon]

Yes, Day 2 or 3 is when we do it.

[mickrory]

We shared a dinner table with a charming couple from South Wales on Azura. On the second night they told us they always cancel the tips and if the service is good they give envelopes at the end. We just let the auto tips ride which get added to our final bill like a lot of folk do.

 

On the last night after the sweet service they called the waiters over (who'd done a great job throughout)and gave them an envelope each, the waiters were made up and seemed delighted. The waiters then looked at us two when no further envelopes were forthcoming as though we were a pair of freeloaders, certainly made us feel awkward even though we'd paid the tips by auto deduction.

 

Perhaps the envelope tipping is the way to go.