More fake service dog nonsense

[Itzmeigh]

I’ll just add, to be clear, I do not agree with ESAs. I think that when the ADA began to recognize ESA for certain things they inadvertently opened a can of very bad worms.

 

Combine the fact that the general public can’t follow rules with the fact that under ADA you are very limited on being able to question a “service dog” with the fact that it really isn’t something that a minimum wage employee should have to concern themselves with... and basically you have a recipe for disaster.

 

No minimum wage employee in a right to work state wants to try and explain to someone the difference between a Service Dog protected under the ADA and a Emotional Support Animal that’s allowed to live in your “pet free” apartment while the customer stands and yells and threatens to sue you and your whole company. All the while incorrectly interrupting the laws in a way to fit their needs and bring their pet onto the ship/into Walmart/sit in their lap on the plane...

 

If you think about it, ESA is the pure definition of a pet. It is an animal that you have that brings you some kind of joy, pleasure, calming effect... who’s pet doesn’t do that in some way? So why is one person’s need for a pet greater than another’s? Service Animals aren’t pets. They do a job for their owner. They don’t “bring comfort” (but that can be a side effect of their job).

 

 

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[Cuizer2]

I'm sorry but your dog comforting you is not a medical need. Just my opinion.

 

First of all, neither is a seeing eye dog. That does not diminish how important they are to someone who is blind.

 

You are not qualified to determine what is necessary for someone to function in today's society, and in this case specifically, you don't even know what the condition is. Of course this also describes the reason that the system can be "played" or taken advantage of. But what else is new? The same applies to billionaires who legally pay less taxes than you and I.

[PopeyeDaSailor]

First of all, neither is a seeing eye dog. That does not diminish how important they are to someone who is blind.

 

You are not qualified to determine what is necessary for someone to function in today's society, and in this case specifically, you don't even know what the condition is. Of course this also describes the reason that the system can be "played" or taken advantage of. But what else is new? The same applies to billionaires who legally pay less taxes than you and I.

 

Read my earlier post. I said this should be regulated strictly by doctors. I never claimed to be qualified to give anything besides my opinion on this. The fact that people in our society now need a dog for "comfort" is silly to me, but others may feel it's fine. Equating a seeing eye dog to a toy dog is ridiculous. Any eye doctor would clearly issue a medical note for a seeing eye dog and it's pretty obvious to anyone a blind person's need for a guide dog.

 

 

But if I'm paying thousands for a cruise and I have to hear a dog barking in the cabin next to me ... or I step in something on deck ...

[John&LaLa]

Read my earlier post. I said this should be regulated strictly by doctors. I never claimed to be qualified to give anything besides my opinion on this. The fact that people in our society now need a dog for "comfort" is silly to me, but others may feel it's fine. But if I'm paying thousands for a cruise and I have to hear a dog barking in the cabin next to me ... or I step in something on deck ...

Which doctors?

 

The same doctors that give out HC parking documentation.

 

The same doctors that prescribe unnecessary opiates.

 

Been on a lot of cruises, never heard dog barking in room, never saw or stepped in anything, never seen dog in MDR.

 

I have seen them at shows, on the promenade, and in the DL.

 

 

 

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[PopeyeDaSailor]

Which doctors?

 

The same doctors that give out HC parking documentation.

 

The same doctors that prescribe unnecessary opiates.

 

Been on a lot of cruises, never heard dog barking in room, never saw or stepped in anything, never seen dog in MDR.

 

I have seen them at shows, on the promenade, and in the DL.

 

 

 

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Someone posted earlier in this thread about a woman feeding a toy dog in the MDR from her lap. Why would you bring your dog to shows? Do people not realize how dogs hearing works?

 

 

And yes doctors give out stuff like candy. I guess I'm just from a different time period where people were tougher.

[Cuizer2]

Read my earlier post. I said this should be regulated strictly by doctors. I never claimed to be qualified to give anything besides my opinion on this. The fact that people in our society now need a dog for "comfort" is silly to me, but others may feel it's fine. Equating a seeing eye dog to a toy dog is ridiculous. Any eye doctor would clearly issue a medical note for a seeing eye dog and it's pretty obvious to anyone a blind person's need for a guide dog.

 

But if I'm paying thousands for a cruise and I have to hear a dog barking in the cabin next to me ... or I step in something on deck ...

 

The dogs have a special place to go to the bathroom. You are not going to step in it on the ship's deck.

 

There is a forum on Cruise Critic dedicated to disabled traveling, which includes people that travel with service dogs. I've provided a link below. Why don't you take a look, you might learn something.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190

 

Here is a thread that you might find interesting. Note, it has over one million views ...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=585728

[John&LaLa]

Someone posted earlier in this thread about a woman feeding a toy dog in the MDR from her lap. Why would you bring your dog to shows? Do people not realize how dogs hearing works?

 

 

And yes doctors give out stuff like candy. I guess I'm just from a different time period where people were tougher.

I don't doubt there have been dogs in MDR, I've just never seen one.

 

The show was in Aqua Theater. Cute dog, but not dressed up

 

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[PopeyeDaSailor]

The dogs have a special place to go to the bathroom. You are not going to step in it on the ship's deck.

 

There is a forum on Cruise Critic dedicated to disabled traveling, which includes people that travel with service dogs. I've provided a link below. Why don't you take a look, you might learn something.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190

 

Here is a thread that you might find interesting. Note, it has over one million views ...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=585728

 

Again, I have no problem with people with real disabilities bringing certified service animals wherever they go. It just bothers me when people abuse the system with silly things like "comfort" pets.

[Itzmeigh]

I'm sorry but your dog comforting you is not a medical need. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

Says you. But if you have debilitating anxiety or rage issues it could be.

 

That was my point. You actually didn’t ready my whole post or you’d have read that I have repeatedly said ESA are NOT service animals. And that I’d NEVER TAKE MY DOG SOMEWHERE UNDER SUCH A CLAIM. Your point loses merit when you quote out of context because basically you are agreeing with me. I said exactly that in my post.

 

My comparison was that people are saying that a dog in clothes can’t do their job. I was saying that depends on their job. If their “job” is to provide comfort (as the ADA currently describes an ESA, like it or not) then they most certainly CAN do that while dressed up or painted blue or riding in a stroller.

 

Problem is, the ADA lessened the value of a service dog by including a subgroup with an amazingly broad definition.

 

I’ll also agree with the person that argued that even a seeing eye or hearing dog is not medical equipment.

 

 

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[Itzmeigh]

Again, I have no problem with people with real disabilities bringing certified service animals wherever they go. It just bothers me when people abuse the system with silly things like "comfort" pets.

 

 

 

The “problem is” there IS NO CERTIFYING AGENCY.

 

So...

 

And I’m not really convinced anyone is abusing anything. Currently, if RC didn’t want dogs on board they’d just say no. But they don’t. That means, regardless of the guise used, RC allowed it to happen.

 

ESA are not Service Animals and are not protected under ADA. all RC has to do is say “No”.

 

I see the same argument with cases of water. Obviously RC doesn’t mind people bringing cases of water or they’d say NO. Cruise lines and airlines have no problem rejecting other banned objects. It’d be awfully easy to ban dogs and water but they let them trough for whatever reason.

 

The need isn’t for “tougher laws/rules” the need is for RC to follow the current laws/rules but for whatever reason they have decided not to.

 

If that bothers you sail with someone else or don’t sail, money speaks the loudest.

 

 

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[pilot]

Flew Delta twice last month. Did not see any dogs on board. Flew SW down to FL in January. My sister is wheelchair bound and the man who pushed her said that there were 24 dogs on the flight but that he had seen as many as 46 on a single flight.

 

 

 

Sorry but I’m going to have to raise the BS Flag on the 24 or 46 dogs on a single flight. Southwest has a limit of 6 (occasionally may go over), but I doubt much over.

 

 

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[WisconsinFan]

I am not sure about the 24 or 46 dogs on a flight, but the limit of 6 is for dogs in a carrier, who have paid $95 to fly. http://https://www.southwest.com/pets/

The dog on our SW flight was on a lap, in the bulkhead (where there was a seat my husband would have liked, but he couldn't sit next to a dog- allergies, and even a row back he still got itchy, watery eyes. We were very limited in our choice of seats) so as the policy doesn't say how many support animals can fly there might be a grain of truth when you combine people following the rules and those flying with dogs on laps.

[Laurin612]

...No minimum wage employee in a right to work state wants to try and explain to someone the difference between a Service Dog protected under the ADA and a Emotional Support Animal that’s allowed to live in your “pet free” apartment while the customer stands and yells and threatens to sue you and your whole company.

 

 

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Speaking of "pet free" apartments, I mentioned this thread (and the continuing saga) to my 20 year old daughter yesterday. She is in college and mentioned that when she was in the dorm last year several girls on her floor had "emotional support animal" cats, despite the fact that pets are not allowed in the dorm. She also said that one of the girls lets her cat roam the hallways of the floor. :rolleyes:

 

She's disappointed that she can't bring her two pet cockatiels to school with her in the Fall, as her apartment has a "no pets" policy that includes birds (she checked). Maybe I should suggest that she purchase "Service Animal" flightsuits for them to skirt the "No Pets" rule. :evilsmile: (Just kidding--we wouldn't actually do that--but I'm sure plenty of people do!)

[PopeyeDaSailor]

Speaking of "pet free" apartments, I mentioned this thread (and the continuing saga) to my 20 year old daughter yesterday. She is in college and mentioned that when she was in the dorm last year several girls on her floor had "emotional support animal" cats, despite the fact that pets are not allowed in the dorm. She also said that one of the girls lets her cat roam the hallways of the floor. :rolleyes:

 

She's disappointed that she can't bring her two pet cockatiels to school with her in the Fall, as her apartment has a "no pets" policy that includes birds (she checked). Maybe I should suggest that she purchase "Service Animal" flightsuits for them to skirt the "No Pets" rule. :evilsmile: (Just kidding--we wouldn't actually do that--but I'm sure plenty of people do!)

 

We really are weakening as a species or devolving. :)

[cruisegirl1]

I don't doubt there have been dogs in MDR, I've just never seen one.

 

The show was in Aqua Theater. Cute dog, but not dressed up

 

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A woman brought her stroller dog to the Freedom dining room for the d+ 350 and up meal (breakfast) with an officer. Dog stayed in the stroller until breakfast was over then the woman showed off the dog which was dressed in a sailor outfit. I sat at another table and did not observe the dog during the meal.

 

Saw the same woman one day at the promenade cafe. Don’t know what she did with the dog for all the other meals. If the dog is needed for the passenger, I imagine it is to be with the passenger the entire time, then the dog would have to be in dining venues unless the passenger ate all meals in the cabin.

 

I have seen service dogs in the dining room. Mostly larger dogs and once with a person in a wheel chair and more than once with a person who appeared to be blind. In these cases to dog stayed on floor close to the owner.

 

M

[maggie cruises]

We really are weakening as a species or devolving. :)

 

 

 

I detected this trend about 15 years ago...I was told I was overreacting

 

Um nope...I don't think so. Lol

 

The good news is the pendulum swings both way and I predict normalcy will again resurface in our society

 

 

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[Itzmeigh]

Speaking of "pet free" apartments, I mentioned this thread (and the continuing saga) to my 20 year old daughter yesterday. She is in college and mentioned that when she was in the dorm last year several girls on her floor had "emotional support animal" cats, despite the fact that pets are not allowed in the dorm. She also said that one of the girls lets her cat roam the hallways of the floor. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

She's disappointed that she can't bring her two pet cockatiels to school with her in the Fall, as her apartment has a "no pets" policy that includes birds (she checked). Maybe I should suggest that she purchase "Service Animal" flightsuits for them to skirt the "No Pets" rule. :evilsmile: (Just kidding--we wouldn't actually do that--but I'm sure plenty of people do!)

 

 

 

Well, arguably, she doesn’t even need any kind of jacket because there is no such thing.

 

People can put whatever they want on an animal and it doesn’t matter. A Service Animal doesn’t require any kind of vest or leash or jacket or sticker or hanging tag, or be certified by any agency... it just has to actually preform a service (that doesn’t include cuddles!).

 

All ESA did was allow people to have their pets with them.

 

 

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[HenryKisor]

For a long time I resisted the idea of federal or state testing and certification of service animals and the carrying of official paperwork, but I have slowly come around to the Canadian model, which requires documentary proof of training by an approved facility as well as proof of disability. This ongoing fraud cannot go on. Yes, it'll make things tougher for real service dog teams, but there may be no choice.

[LMaxwell]

But who’s to say that dressing the dog up and pushing it in a stroller means the dog isn’t preforming a service. You’d need to know what service the dog supposedly provides to know that.

 

 

 

 

 

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Those of us that are well adjusted adults that don’t need to dress up puppies for our emotional well being and amusement?

 

 

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

Those of us that are well adjusted adults that don’t need to dress up puppies for our emotional well being and amusement?

 

 

 

 

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Pretty judgemental, don't you think.

 

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[LMaxwell]

Pretty judgemental, don't you think.

 

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Yes.

 

And accurate.

 

If you think your pup is a child and can’t get through the day without dressing it like a doll get some professional psychological help; don’t make the rest of us deal w your inability to travel without your pet and its accessories. Or stay home.

 

 

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[PopeyeDaSailor]

Yes.

 

And accurate.

 

If you think your pup is a child and can’t get through the day without dressing it like a doll get some professional psychological help; don’t make the rest of us deal w your inability to travel without your pet and its accessories. Or stay home.

 

 

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Amen. These people need a psychiatrist not a toy dog.

[cruisegirl1]

I had a situation at work several years ago. I was in a meeting and a woman walked in that look very distressed. She announced that her baby had died last week. The entire committee was heartbroken. Someone asked the age and she said, “ she was only two years old”. After the meeting (and after she left) it was suggested that we send a donation in her baby’s memory. As I had sent the donation for the committee I received a thank you note and it was only then that we learned that her “baby” was her pet dog.

 

Of course we would have been sad to learn that she lost her pet, but we were really overcome with grief when we thought it was a human baby.

 

M

[John&LaLa]

Yes.

 

And accurate.

 

If you think your pup is a child and can’t get through the day without dressing it like a doll get some professional psychological help; don’t make the rest of us deal w your inability to travel without your pet and its accessories. Or stay home.

 

 

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I'm pretty well adjusted and I put an outfit on Bell every now and then.

 

Especially during football season.

 

Oh no, I'm feeling the need to draw attention to myself again.

 

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[setsail]

I'm pretty well adjusted and I put an outfit on Bell every now and then.

 

Especially during football season.

 

Oh no, I'm feeling the need to draw attention to myself again.

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You would never be able to book on maxwell of the seas;p

 

My mom used to knit outfits for the small dog we had years ago for the wintertime