Status of Ocean Medallion?

[pablo222]

Pardon me for butting in...

 

More reasonable to assume 'concerns' refers to the system never being completed, no?

 

 

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

Mr. Rabbit said that wasn't what he meant, and I believe him.

 

I await his more detailed post when he is home and has time to type.

 

It's nice to have reports directly from people who have been on the ships involved.

[Haboob]

If you go back to where I made this statement, the post I was referencing was talking about being tracked on the ship. To the concern of being tracked, it is unwarranted. So please do not miss quote me.

 

Only a very limited number of crew can access the passenger location information and the captain is not one of them nor anyone on the Hotel Management side.

 

I never had any intention or want to discuss schedules..

 

My bad.

 

I should know to track a sub-thread all the way back its start. If I'd done that I'd have known that

"System is close" meant "close-held" rather than "close to being done".

 

I'll also plead guilty to confirmation bias: It would be great news if ***** were close to being done.

[TheRabbit]

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

Mr. Rabbit said that wasn't what he meant, and I believe him.

 

I await his more detailed post when he is home and has time to type.

 

It's nice to have reports directly from people who have been on the ships involved.

I had to laugh at some of the real problems they ran into. Some of these the engineers had not anticipated in how users would do things.

[Haboob]

;p;p;p With the upcoming ATSC3.0 all things will be even better with broadcast tv (and I suppose will also work on future cruises?)" https://www.cnet.com/news/atsc-3-0-the-future-of-free-antenna-tv-is-coming-eventually/

Broadcast TV will know what you're watching

 

One of 3.0's more controversial features is a "return data path," which is a way for the station you're watching to know you're watching. Not only does this allow more accurate count for who's watching what shows, but it creates the opportunity for every marketer's dream: targeted advertising.

Ads specific to your viewing habits, income level and even ethnicity (presumed by your neighborhood, for example) could get slotted in by your local station. This is something brand-new for broadcast TV. Today, over-the-air broadcasts are pretty much the only way to watch television that doesn't track your viewing habits. Sure, the return data path could also allow "alternative audio tracks and interactive elements," but it's the targeted ads and tracking many observers are worried about.

The finer details are all still being worked out, but here's the thing: if your TV is connected to the internet, it's already tracking you. Pretty much every app, streaming service, smart TV and cable or satellite box all track your usage to a greater or lesser extent."

 

"Privacy" was only a transitory phase.

 

It used to be that every village's old ladies, sitting on their stoop, watching, knew everything

everyone was doing and with whom. And now we're heading to the "global village".

 

I don't plug my smart TV into the internet, but I also assume it's watching me watching it, to

borrow from ABBA.

[TheRabbit]

My bad.

 

I should know to track a sub-thread all the way back its start. If I'd done that I'd have known that

"System is close" meant "close-held" rather than "close to being done".

 

I'll also plead guilty to confirmation bias: It would be great news if ***** were close to being done.

No problem. Just to much miss information propagating.

[Haboob]

I had to laugh at some of the real problems they ran into. Some of these the engineers had not anticipated in how users would do things.

 

Can you relay any light on the persistent reports that ***** didn't unlock cabin doors

when the (correct) medallion was in front of them?

[Pierlesscruisers]

A question I have, is that it was mentioned that you can use the medallion to get off/on the ship.

 

RCCL has a wristband that allows you to get into your room and make purchases, but you can't use it to get on/off the ship. For that you still had to use your set sail card. I thought that was odd, as from a techinical stand point there should be no reason why you shouldn't be be able to. Then it dawned me, that port security requires a picture ID and sea pass card. They need both so they can match up the name on the picture id to the name/ship on the card. The wristband has no name/ship, so it would be impossible for port security to know to allow on the dock upon returning.

 

Has Princess backed off of using the medallion for this purposed. Although I guess, they could still "ping" you off and on the actual ship, but you will still need a name card to get back on the dock.

 

The medallion has the cruiser's name, the ship name and the start date of the cruise etched on the front of the medallion so that would probably satisfy them. I would think that they could also station a crewman out at the gate onto the pier to scan the medallion and identify the cruiser.

 

Tom

[megs1954]

Of all the potential features this program has advertised, the one I would most like to have is being able to locate members of my party with their permission. I thought for a long time that ships should have a way for this to happen. They could have kiosks throughout the ship where a person could simply scan their card as they go into a place or by a place on the ship. Other members with permission, could simply look up the last place that their party member had scanned their card. The parties would have to opt in to this.

[TheRabbit]

Can you relay any light on the persistent reports that ***** didn't unlock cabin doors

when the (correct) medallion was in front of them?

This was mentioned. They now have a double tap method to get around the proximity sensor missing the nearness of the madalion.

Part of the integration was determaning what range the madalion should have.

[caribill]

This was mentioned. They now have a double tap method to get around the proximity sensor missing the nearness of the madalion.

Part of the integration was determaning what range the madalion should have.

 

Actually the original promise that it would unlock your door as you approached your cabin bothered me. That meant if you were just walking past your cabin on your way to somewhere it would unlock your door even if you had no intention of going into the cabin.

[TheRabbit]

Actually the original promise that it would unlock your door as you approached your cabin bothered me. That meant if you were just walking past your cabin on your way to somewhere it would unlock your door even if you had no intention of going into the cabin.

This was a problem that was discussed. I'll cover it. Doors not opening was caused by testing to remove this side effect.

[Pierlesscruisers]

Actually the original promise that it would unlock your door as you approached your cabin bothered me. That meant if you were just walking past your cabin on your way to somewhere it would unlock your door even if you had no intention of going into the cabin.

 

That was the way it was interpreted, but that is not the way it works. It would sense your proximity, but it would not "trip the lock" until you touched the door handle while you were within that close proximity to the medallion senser. So if you were just walking by the lock was not released. It took awhile for us to learn that little fact.

 

Tom

[gatour]

Tom and Rick,

 

Thanks for your responses.

 

The medallion has the cruiser's name, the ship name and the start date of the cruise etched on the front of the medallion so that would probably satisfy them. I would think that they could also station a crewman out at the gate onto the pier to scan the medallion and identify the cruiser.

 

Tom

[TheRabbit]

During a most travelled passenger event (Alaska Cruises havesuch a low threshold), we had the opportunity to sit with one of the Assistantmanagers on the hotel side. He had just sat for a presentation on the status ofthe Ocean Medallion system a few days before on our cruise. This is some of theinformation he passed on. (Others could possibly fill in some blanks as I havenever sailed a cruise with the Medallion.) Doing this write up from memory, soI may have missed a topic that was covered. Just ask, as it might jog a braincell or two.

 

1) System is very close to being rolled out on the Regal (I believe this is the ship he mentioned.) Sounded like it would be in a few phases as far as how many cruisers and crew as well as what area of the ship the cabin is in. Do not remember the number of phases or if it was mentioned, but from the conversation, the number appeared to be around 5 or less.

2) Much work has been put into the functional range of the Medallion. This was actually what led to some of the problems cruisers have been reporting. To long of a range and systems where picking up info not needed, to short and the Medallion was not detected. One of the areas that proved to be the most difficult was the range for the door. The final range they felt was in the sweet spot was around 1½ foot. One of the human problems integrators ran into was cruisers turning around after leaving the room to verify the door was locked and thus reopening the door. They have initiated a 10 second lock out to handle this problem. Tom mentioned the door had to be touched before it would open, this was not discussed nor mentioned. As to problems, initial range was around 6 foot, which DID cause many problems.

3) If when trying to open the door, and the door does not open, they have instituted a double tap of the Medallion on the screen.(The screen is an area I have no knowledge where someone else could fill in. Tom?)

4) Only a small number of security personnel can access the monitoring system for locating all on board (number was about 3, and are on call). I brought up concerns mentioned here, and from what he stated, these are unfounded. In addition, not sure of the actual time frame, but the system can detect a missing person almost immediately. The handle full of security personnel mentioned above can determine who and where this took place. The Medallion is not a GPS device. Position is determined by detection.

5) As for the ability to monitor others in your party. It was not brought up, and I did not ask, sorry.

6) There is a process in place to receive your Medallion within a few weeks of sailing. There are processes in place to handle this ifyou are already on travel. Don’t remember all the specifics, but it seemed itwas appropriately covered. As mentioned before, it will come engraved with the info for the cruise along with name.

7) Receiving your second Medallion for a B2B involves receiving it the day of embarkation for the subsequent leg. I believe there were problems receiving all the medallions before starting the first leg, but he did not go into what they were. I can see a few human errors creeping in.

8) We were on the Ruby Princess and it is currently NOT wired for this system as are several other ships in the fleet. This is to be addressed on the Ruby in dry dock I believe this fall.

9) As you enter a service area such as a bar/store.Your picture will show up on the computer/pad screen similar to what happens today when they scan your card. Server can then select the person they are helping.

 

If I missed anyone’s concerns, let me know and if I have info, I will address it.

[satxdiver]

Well rabbit it seems you had your ears up and open to gain the great information and pass it on. It sounds like at least on the Regal it may be time at long last to make *****'s debut to the public. No matter how well a system is designed, how well it has been tested and how well it is installed, someone will find a way to defeat it.

 

I will agree that the AK cruises particularly the Seattle r/t presents a very low threshold to capture a seat at the most traveled event. We were able to finally make one this past AK cruise last summer. There were 53 elite aboard.

 

Thanks.

[pablo222]

Mr. Rabbit --- thank you for your detailed report.

[TheRabbit]

Well rabbit it seems you had your ears up and open to gain the great information and pass it on. It sounds like at least on the Regal it may be time at long last to make *****'s debut to the public. No matter how well a system is designed, how well it has been tested and how well it is installed, someone will find a way to defeat it.

 

I will agree that the AK cruises particularly the Seattle r/t presents a very low threshold to capture a seat at the most traveled event. We were able to finally make one this past AK cruise last summer. There were 53 elite aboard.

 

Thanks.

Yep! Three most sailed passengers were in the high 300 to low 4 hundred. That usually won't even get you to the luncheon.

 

Let Murphy at the Ocean Medallion!!!!! It sound though that some Monkey testing was done. I just hope they are right.

 

Here is a story about Murphy in action. Not sure if I mentioned this here or not, but if I have, sorry for the repeat.

There was a Math department that worked out a formula for predicting the smallest rectangular space required for storing round balls. I believe the story indicated at least a year was spend developing and Beta testing. Finally they brought in people off the street and asked them to stack the balls into a box to see how they fit. The test was set up so that if they fit the balls into the box as tightly as they had predicted with the algorithm, the balls would be flush with the top.

 

After some time, they went through each of the participants and checked how tightly they had packed the balls. Some had it flush to the top, others not so well. However, one lady's box was about inch short of the top. They immediately asked her where she had put the other balls to which she replied they were all in the box. Not believing her they took them out carefully and counted to only find out the count was correct. They then asked her how she put the balls in the box. She proceeded to tell them she added balls and shook real hard them added more shaking again until she had put all the balls in the box. After studying the ball placement in the box and trying to fix the algorithm, they finally gave up as the formula would not predict what she had done. Thus over a years worth of work for not!

[Pierlesscruisers]

3) If when trying to open the door, and the door does not open, they have instituted a double tap of the Medallion on the screen.(The screen is an area I have no knowledge where someone else could fill in. Tom?)

4) Only a small number of security personnel can access the monitoring system for locating all on board (number was about 3, and are on call). I brought up concerns mentioned here, and from what he stated, these are unfounded. In addition, not sure of the actual time frame, but the system can detect a missing person almost immediately. The handle full of security personnel mentioned above can determine who and where this took place. The Medallion is not a GPS device. Position is determined by detection.

8) We were on the Ruby Princess and it is currently NOT wired for this system as are several other ships in the fleet. This is to be addressed on the Ruby in dry dock I believe this fall.

 

3. From what I can remember of the screen and everything else, a double-tap would seem to be effective, but I don't remember any such problem once we discovered the need to touch the screen. There certainly could have been a problem in that area though.

 

4. I wouldn't think that there would be very many people who would have any need to have any need to track people. Seems to me that most of the crew have enough things that they're already responsible for doing to give them any such clearance. Does anyone really believe that they are so important that some crew member is going to spend

[Pierlesscruisers]

3) If when trying to open the door, and the door does not open, they have instituted a double tap of the Medallion on the screen.(The screen is an area I have no knowledge where someone else could fill in. Tom?)

4) Only a small number of security personnel can access the monitoring system for locating all on board (number was about 3, and are on call). I brought up concerns mentioned here, and from what he stated, these are unfounded. In addition, not sure of the actual time frame, but the system can detect a missing person almost immediately. The handle full of security personnel mentioned above can determine who and where this took place. The Medallion is not a GPS device. Position is determined by detection.

8) We were on the Ruby Princess and it is currently NOT wired for this system as are several other ships in the fleet. This is to be addressed on the Ruby in dry dock I believe this fall.

 

3. From what I can remember of the screen and everything else, a double-tap would seem to be effective, but I don't remember any such problem once we discovered the need to touch the screen. There certainly could have been a problem in that area though.

 

4. I wouldn't think that there would be very many people who would have any need to have any need to track people. Seems to me that most of the crew have enough things that they're already responsible for doing to give them any such clearance. Does anyone really believe that they are so important that some crew member is going to spend a bunch of time watching an electronic blip on a screen tracking someone? Probably be a good cure for insomnia, for sure!

 

 

8. Yep, the Ruby is scheduled to go into drydock on 30 Sep after a 1-day cruise from Seattle after it's last cruise from Seattle-Monterey-Seattle as the last cruise of the Alaska season.

 

 

Tom

[caribill]

 

4. I wouldn't think that there would be very many people who would have any need to have any need to track people. Seems to me that most of the crew have enough things that they're already responsible for doing to give them any such clearance. Does anyone really believe that they are so important that some crew member is going to spend

 

If the ***** is implemented as promised, then bar staff would need to locate you to deliver a drink that you ordered via a digital device. For example, you use your cell phone while on a lounger on the pool deck to order a beverage.

[Pierlesscruisers]

If the ***** is implemented as promised, then bar staff would need to locate you to deliver a drink that you ordered via a digital device. For example, you use your cell phone while on a lounger on the pool deck to order a beverage.

 

Very true, but thatis for a specific purpose. I still feel that the apparent fear that some evidently have that someone is going to constantly be tracking them and watching everywhere they go is not realistic and is paranoid.

 

Tom

[latserrof]

Very true, but thatis for a specific purpose. I still feel that the apparent fear that some evidently have that someone is going to constantly be tracking them and watching everywhere they go is not realistic and is paranoid.

 

Tom

 

I don't know how many people "fear" ..." that someone is going to constantly be tracking them and watching everywhere they go." A lot of people are concerned that a computer somewhere is tracking them, and its data may someday be used against them. Mortgage lenders can now obtain cellphone data to show what time of day (or night) and for how long you use your cell phone, and the lenders can use this information, rightly or wrongly, in determining your credit-worthiness. Some employers routinely look at job candidates' social media profiles, postings and friendships in making decisions on hiring and promotions. Some cruiser may not want a potential employer to know that he/she spent the entire cruise in a bar, downing double shots. Or he/she may not want to be hounded by marketers who learn that he/she has attended every art auction. You don't know what you don't know -- once the data is out there, you don't know how it might be used in the future.

[Craving A Cruise]

Just onboard Caribbean today. NO medallion on this cruise. Was told possibly by August?? Having too many problems with the roll out.

[Haboob]

Just onboard Caribbean today. NO medallion on this cruise. Was told possibly by August?? Having too many problems with the roll out.

 

::nods::

 

*IF* that Asst Mgr 'fessed up to Mr Rabbit (thank you very much for the report) on all the issues,

***** on Regal should have been up and running last year.

 

Somehow, I suspect he got a sanitized briefing.

 

Never the less, I am encouraged.

[lx200gps]

Very true, but thatis for a specific purpose. I still feel that the apparent fear that some evidently have that someone is going to constantly be tracking them and watching everywhere they go is not realistic and is paranoid.

 

Tom

 

I guess it all comes down to how you define "someone". No, obviously Princess won't have humans sitting at screens watching passenger's every move around the ship, but it is my understanding that if you opt for it, and many will intentionally or otherwise, the "system" can most assuredly know where you are with some accuracy as you move around the ship, and this information CAN impact you directly. As a very private person, the scenario that makes me very wary of this is, for example, being greeted by name as you walk into, say, Crooners, and having your picture show up on a waiter's tablet as you walk by, which I understand is one of the system's capabilities. While some folks seem to be salivating over having this feature, we plan to be among the few that will absolutely refuse this type of real-time monitoring, as I believe we will be able to do. ALL we want to be able to do with the ship's card/Medallion, is to open our door, get on and off the ship, and charge to our account. Of course, we realize that our data is being kept in the computer SOMEWHERE in the system, but the Medallion is far too invasive for us.

 

 

If I was REALLY paranoid, this would remind me of the experience Tom Cruise had as he walked through the shopping mall in Minority Report, with specific targeted adverts screamed in his face as he walked through. After all, Princess isn't doing all this out of the kindness of their heart, one of their targeted goals has to be the collection of mass amounts of passenger analytics. Like many others, I see no benefit in it for us.