Status of Ocean Medallion?

[pablo222]

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in the atrium - the line at the internet desk with people trying to connect their IPADS and Apples? (Some of those people are still there today!)

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in cabins? They still have cabins with wifi dead spots at the desk, but the bed's ok!. The steel in the ships will basically wreak havoc with any RF signal. (I've had the same problem in hotels as well.).

 

And yet, they seemed to have learned nothing from this previous experience.

[Coolmama_1]

My TA has been on the Regal the last week or two. She let me know that there were major problems and no Internet the entire cruise. An upgrade is being installed today or tomorrow.

 

My TA is too!:):)

[WVBill]

They will eventually get it right, but it will cost 10x as much as originally projected and take 2x as long.

....

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in cabins? They still have cabins with wifi dead spots at the desk, but the bed's ok!. The steel in the ships will basically wreak havoc with any RF signal. (I've had the same problem in hotels as well.)

...

Us old dogs still know a few tricks...

 

Thing is EVERY ship is a different tin can - meaning that they're going to have to place the WAPs in different locations on each one. The WAP placement map for the Regal will not work on the Royal etc. etc...

 

Whoever said "the details are in the deployment" had it exactly right. BTDT... and again...and again...... :loudcry:

[moki'smommy]

They supposedly hired the guy "responsible" for the Magic Band technology at Disney. I suspect that either he wasn't as "responsible" as his resume might have claimed or he didn't get the back up he needed. The Disney technology worked the first time. It sounds like Princess has nothing work when first released.

 

BUT, looking at their roll out of the new coffee package, why is this surprising. They have at least 3 pages of the rules and regulations on their web site, but each page lists slightly different rules. Applied to Medallion.....we have 3 guys writing code and they don't talk to each other. Great.

[Micahs Grandad]

They supposedly hired the guy "responsible" for the Magic Band technology at Disney. I suspect that either he wasn't as "responsible" as his resume might have claimed or he didn't get the back up he needed. The Disney technology worked the first time. It sounds like Princess has nothing work when first released.

 

BUT' date=' looking at their roll out of the new coffee package, why is this surprising. They have at least 3 pages of the rules and regulations on their web site, but each page lists slightly different rules. Applied to Medallion.....we have 3 guys writing code and they don't talk to each other. Great.[/quote']

 

Sad they are doing such a pathetic job of implementing this

[Pierlesscruisers]

They will eventually get it right, but it will cost 10x as much as originally projected and take 2x as long.

 

Remember when they first rolled out internet cafes? Even hardwired to on-board servers, the PCs were a pain to use, log on to and especially log out on those rough sea days!

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in the atrium - the line at the internet desk with people trying to connect their IPADS and Apples? (Some of those people are still there today!)

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in cabins? They still have cabins with wifi dead spots at the desk, but the bed's ok!. The steel in the ships will basically wreak havoc with any RF signal. (I've had the same problem in hotels as well.)

 

In the old days you used to have to test new software/hardware systems under realistic conditions. That is apparently what they are doing now - test/fix/test/fix/test/fix...been there, done that...now chuckling under my breath.

 

My biggest complaint with IT folks nowadays, especially in my own company, is that they don't test new software before they blindly deploy to determine all of the unintended consequences (like locking out every multi-function printer in the division hooked up via USB), and most IT folks are sitting with a Gig-E line to the server in the room next door and wondering why I'm having a problem updating my computer over a 356kB/sec VPN connection from two states away! Or on a ship in the middle of the Tasman sea!

 

Its gotten to the point nowadays that I have my own test computer for my home network. All of those updates, all of that new cute software is deployed on my junk computer first before I put it on my main computers. I have had to restore that one from scratch a couple of times now due to Windows update issues and software that didn't do what I wanted it to do...

 

Us old dogs still know a few tricks...

 

The thing that amazes me about the problems with the Princess Medallion program is that the original work on the Princess system was done by the team that did the Disney Medallion program and I would have thought that the knowledge that they gained by establishing the first system would have simplified establishing the second system. Obviously, I would think, they couldn't just copy the original system but they would learn some things that just plain wouldn't work so they could avoid those plans. Guess it didn't work that way though.

 

Tom

[OCruisers]

So hope Princess will not roll it out fleet wide until they can get it right!

[TheRabbit]

The thing that amazes me about the problems with the Princess Medallion program is that the original work on the Princess system was done by the team that did the Disney Medallion program and I would have thought that the knowledge that they gained by establishing the first system would have simplified establishing the second system. Obviously, I would think, they couldn't just copy the original system but they would learn some things that just plain wouldn't work so they could avoid those plans. Guess it didn't work that way though.

 

Tom

I think the basic integration of information is not the problem. That part is just basic data base manipulation. I believe, as others, is the integration into a big steel can along with all the problems related to getting the signal to work in every location on the ship with a centrally located data base. None of us will know the real extent of the problem, but those who have integrated systems know you can try and plan, but real life problems do not present themselves until you get into the real environment. IMHO, those Disney engineers probably never knew what they had signed up for.

 

CCrain mentions similar problems in Hotels. I have seen it integrating radio direction systems on bases. Everyone of those beautiful hangers cause multi path and some times the strongest signal comes back from them.

[Pierlesscruisers]

I think the basic integration of information is not the problem. That part is just basic data base manipulation. I believe, as others, is the integration into a big steel can along with all the problems related to getting the signal to work in every location on the ship with a centrally located data base. None of us will know the real extent of the problem, but those who have integrated systems know you can try and plan, but real life problems do not present themselves until you get into the real environment. IMHO, those Disney engineers probably never knew what they had signed up for.

 

CCrain mentions similar problems in Hotels. I have seen it integrating radio direction systems on bases. Everyone of those beautiful hangers cause multi path and some times the strongest signal comes back from them.

 

But, would not the same basic problem been present in the Disney scenario as in the Princess scenario, e.g. a large steel ship? Of course that's assuming the interior of each ship would be the same which might not be the case. Different shipbuilders might use different materials for the same purpose which could have entirely different side effects I would guess. So all of this might be the root of the problem or nothing even close and be just useless speculation I guess. Probably not even worth thinking about.

 

Tom

[TheRabbit]

But, would not the same basic problem been present in the Disney scenario as in the Princess scenario, e.g. a large steel ship? Of course that's assuming the interior of each ship would be the same which might not be the case. Different shipbuilders might use different materials for the same purpose which could have entirely different side effects I would guess. So all of this might be the root of the problem or nothing even close and be just useless speculation I guess. Probably not even worth thinking about.

 

Tom

If the ship was hard wired for the expantion, they can easily solve some of the problems. As bad as Disney was for years staying with old technologies, they added a lot of wiring growth in their designs. Maybe this was the same.

[Cruiser411]

But, would not the same basic problem been present in the Disney scenario as in the Princess scenario, e.g. a large steel ship? Of course that's assuming the interior of each ship would be the same which might not be the case. Different shipbuilders might use different materials for the same purpose which could have entirely different side effects I would guess. So all of this might be the root of the problem or nothing even close and be just useless speculation I guess. Probably not even worth thinking about.

 

Tom

 

But isn't Disney's version of the Medallion in their parks and not on their ships? So, apples and oranges.

[Pierlesscruisers]

But isn't Disney's version of the Medallion in their parks and not on their ships? So, apples and oranges.

 

Never sailed on Disney so I don't know, but I thought it was on their ships. If it's only in their parks then you're sure correct in the apples/oranges comparison!!

 

Tom

[satxdiver]

But, would not the same basic problem been present in the Disney scenario as in the Princess scenario, e.g. a large steel ship? Of course that's assuming the interior of each ship would be the same which might not be the case. Different shipbuilders might use different materials for the same purpose which could have entirely different side effects I would guess. So all of this might be the root of the problem or nothing even close and be just useless speculation I guess. Probably not even worth thinking about.

 

Tom

 

The ships all use metal for the walls as wood is strictly controlled due to fire danger. The problem arises in how the ship is physically laid out (rooms, hallways etc). Each ship is different sometimes only slightly like the Royal and Regal and other times significant changes like the Ruby and Grand. The bigger the ship the bigger the problem in placing the sensors and wiring the signals back to the central computer.

 

From my seat it appears that Princess has decided to get it working on one ship before spreading it to other ships. The head person responsible for the Disney installation was hired by Princess but not the rest of the team. Disney has extensive history in the use of computers for automation and controlling crowds in their theme parks plus a very cutting edge IT staff to implement it on a ship. Princess on the other hand did not have the support and had to hire and create it.

[ccrain]

From the various accounts I've read, there is a fundamental issue with the data collection software coupled with RF signal to noise issues. While the backbone is wired, this system is heavily wireless dependent on the front end

 

Remember, in addition to simple tasks like billing drinks to your account and unlocking your door, they are tracking you all over the ship. What's the sample rate? Do you want to track on 10 second, 30 second, 60 second or longer intervals? With 3000+ guests, that's a LOT of sampling and a lot of data. Now couple that with transaction data from these 3000 guests.

 

How many of you have been on the ships recently with the new IPAD drink ordering system? How many times has the server had to re-swipe your card? Reboot their pad? Throw the pad down, stomp on it and pull out the old reliable pen and paper?

 

If they are having this kind of trouble with a fairly standard swipe system, now insert a wireless 'swipe' into the software on the PAD and another piece of software telling the server that this particular person likes 'a chairman of the board' while differentiating between 8 different people sitting around a table with no name tags - so is the software also trying to pull up the security photo of the person to the PAD as well in order for the server to know who is who?

 

Multiply this by several hundred and you have hundreds of MB of data flowing back and forth to the on-board servers - which are probably too small in processing power and in data storage (lowest bidder of course, smallest physical space, lowest power consumption, lowest heat possible).

 

No wonder the original deployment went so poorly. No one thought about the throughput required to make this kind of system work.

 

And then of course, Mr. Murphy shows up, the only real constant in the engineering universe, and kicks your tuckus up and down the proverbial hallway!

[sawtooth]

They will eventually get it right, but it will cost 10x as much as originally projected and take 2x as long.

 

Remember when they first rolled out internet cafes? Even hardwired to on-board servers, the PCs were a pain to use, log on to and especially log out on those rough sea days!

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in the atrium - the line at the internet desk with people trying to connect their IPADS and Apples? (Some of those people are still there today!)

 

 

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in cabins? They still have cabins with wifi dead spots at the desk, but the bed's ok!. The steel in the ships will basically wreak havoc with any RF signal. (I've had the same problem in hotels as well.)

 

In the old days you used to have to test new software/hardware systems under realistic conditions. That is apparently what they are doing now - test/fix/test/fix/test/fix...been there, done that...now chuckling under my breath.

 

My biggest complaint with IT folks nowadays, especially in my own company, is that they don't test new software before they blindly deploy to determine all of the unintended consequences (like locking out every multi-function printer in the division hooked up via USB), and most IT folks are sitting with a Gig-E line to the server in the room next door and wondering why I'm having a problem updating my computer over a 356kB/sec VPN connection from two states away! Or on a ship in the middle of the Tasman sea!

 

Its gotten to the point nowadays that I have my own test computer for my home network. All of those updates, all of that new cute software is deployed on my junk computer first before I put it on my main computers. I have had to restore that one from scratch a couple of times now due to Windows update issues and software that didn't do what I wanted it to do...

 

Us old dogs still know a few tricks...

 

 

Unrelated to this thread.

Just took a look at your web page for your upcoming 60 day cruise. WOW.

Great resource. Lots of time went into planning this page. Great job!

[HappyCruiserettu]

So hope Princess will not roll it out fleet wide until they can get it right!

 

My understanding is that they (Carnival Corp) intended to eventually roll it out across all ships and all brands (Carnival, Holland, Cunard etc.)

[bobby3334]

Why try to refit all Princess ships since it not only seems very difficult and extraordinarily expensive? No further progress on Regal between when I was on in January and the TA in April. The higher staff at the M&G said work would not resume until it returns in the Fall since technicians left back in North America. Next they would be trying their hand at Caribbean Princess. Captain also said in 2019 Princess would be rolling out a new ship every year for 5 years. Why not wire ships as they are being built and forget a retrofit since I am fairly sure it would be easier and most importantly less expensive? I can’t imagine how much this all costs and you know who will pay for it in the end. Mike

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[TheRabbit]

From the various accounts I've read, there is a fundamental issue with the data collection software coupled with RF signal to noise issues. While the backbone is wired, this system is heavily wireless dependent on the front end

 

Remember, in addition to simple tasks like billing drinks to your account and unlocking your door, they are tracking you all over the ship. What's the sample rate? Do you want to track on 10 second, 30 second, 60 second or longer intervals? With 3000+ guests, that's a LOT of sampling and a lot of data. Now couple that with transaction data from these 3000 guests.

 

How many of you have been on the ships recently with the new IPAD drink ordering system? How many times has the server had to re-swipe your card? Reboot their pad? Throw the pad down, stomp on it and pull out the old reliable pen and paper?

 

If they are having this kind of trouble with a fairly standard swipe system, now insert a wireless 'swipe' into the software on the PAD and another piece of software telling the server that this particular person likes 'a chairman of the board' while differentiating between 8 different people sitting around a table with no name tags - so is the software also trying to pull up the security photo of the person to the PAD as well in order for the server to know who is who?

 

Multiply this by several hundred and you have hundreds of MB of data flowing back and forth to the on-board servers - which are probably too small in processing power and in data storage (lowest bidder of course, smallest physical space, lowest power consumption, lowest heat possible).

 

No wonder the original deployment went so poorly. No one thought about the throughput required to make this kind of system work.

 

And then of course, Mr. Murphy shows up, the only real constant in the engineering universe, and kicks your tuckus up and down the proverbial hallway!

Well said Charles. Now get back to work on the 60 day site. LOL

Looking forward to meeting you.

People who have never integrated a full system even 10% the size of this one have no ideas how many and where problems will pop up. Murphy and I have had a few personal meetings.

 

I was just thinking yesterday of the number of WiFi devices we will have in our cabin starting next week. With two phones, 2 readers, a latop, thats 5. Multiply that times the number of cabins, add on the crew's devices and you have a sizable number before even adding in the ship's stores, bars, restaurants, and pursers office devices.

[Woobstr112G]

So hope Princess will not roll it out fleet wide until they can get it right!

 

One would hope this is the case.....:):):)

 

Bob

[Lucky TGO]

Princess is hiring an entirely new team of PR people for the Medallion project. The new team will be composed entirely of crickets...

 

Thrak,

I love it the new team of crickets...:D:D:D

The Captain of The Rowboat,

Tony

[Flmomoftwo]

These IT threads are interesting. Management doesn't want to listen to what the IT staff says. We tell them it's not ready but they push it out anyway.

 

They will eventually get it right, but it will cost 10x as much as originally projected and take 2x as long.

 

Remember when they first rolled out internet cafes? Even hardwired to on-board servers, the PCs were a pain to use, log on to and especially log out on those rough sea days!

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in the atrium - the line at the internet desk with people trying to connect their IPADS and Apples? (Some of those people are still there today!)

 

Remember when they first rolled out wifi in cabins? They still have cabins with wifi dead spots at the desk, but the bed's ok!. The steel in the ships will basically wreak havoc with any RF signal. (I've had the same problem in hotels as well.)

 

In the old days you used to have to test new software/hardware systems under realistic conditions. That is apparently what they are doing now - test/fix/test/fix/test/fix...been there, done that...now chuckling under my breath.

 

My biggest complaint with IT folks nowadays, especially in my own company, is that they don't test new software before they blindly deploy to determine all of the unintended consequences (like locking out every multi-function printer in the division hooked up via USB), and most IT folks are sitting with a Gig-E line to the server in the room next door and wondering why I'm having a problem updating my computer over a 356kB/sec VPN connection from two states away! Or on a ship in the middle of the Tasman sea!

 

Its gotten to the point nowadays that I have my own test computer for my home network. All of those updates, all of that new cute software is deployed on my junk computer first before I put it on my main computers. I have had to restore that one from scratch a couple of times now due to Windows update issues and software that didn't do what I wanted it to do...

 

Us old dogs still know a few tricks...

[scgssny]

So is Regal the only ship with ***** or did they roll it out on Royal as planned and then discover all the issues?

[dchip]

So is Regal the only ship with ***** or did they roll it out on Royal as planned and then discover all the issues?

 

Only the Regal. We were on the Regal for two cruises before the ***** rollout. It was a zoo. There were IT people everywhere and none of them looked happy. We knew it was never going to be ready in November, but didn't have a clue it would be this much of a fiasco!

 

Cheers, Denise

[Micahs Grandad]

Why try to refit all Princess ships since it not only seems very difficult and extraordinarily expensive? No further progress on Regal between when I was on in January and the TA in April. The higher staff at the M&G said work would not resume until it returns in the Fall since technicians left back in North America. Next they would be trying their hand at Caribbean Princess. Captain also said in 2019 Princess would be rolling out a new ship every year for 5 years. Why not wire ships as they are being built and forget a retrofit since I am fairly sure it would be easier and most importantly less expensive? I can’t imagine how much this all costs and you know who will pay for it in the end. Mike

 

 

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Just booked Sky Princess for first TA in fall 2019 and no mention of *****.

[TNTLAMB]

I don't know whether the ***** team is a contract Vendor or a part of Carnivals IT team, but it is important to much of the workdone on ***** is pretty much moot since G.D.P.R. as taken effect. Trust me on this its a coding nightmare. I have 53 sites down in part or whole. One would THINK it would be an easy fix (I did) By the time you get desk top/tab/mobile and multiple OS and browsers to recognize the new code its not. One think if you built 53 site with Ruby, and fixedone you could fix the other 52 the smae way... You can't. GDPR doesen't effect just the EU bit everything everyewhere.