I would like the new ship to have....

[VintageCCG]

... what I was told is that QM2 has no itineraries that require the use of the gas turbines (at least not for any extended period) and that is the way they are purposely designed.

... the way QM2's itineraries are designed today, there is even a buffer built in to make up time if needed without using the turbines. We are talking slow speeds and port schedules optimized to use as little fuel consumption as possible.

... since there are larger cruise ships with more powerful thrusters than QM2, and they certainly don't required gas turbines for extra power, and of course don't even have them. If this is required of QM2, and it may very well could be, it seems like a bit of a design flaw to me. .

 

eRoller, you raise several interesting points.

My day-job requires me to work with Professional Engineers and Naval Architects to design and build ships (my expertise and focus is on the operational requirements), so I found some of the design decisions on QM2 quite fascinating.

 

The whole modular/hybrid CoDaG (combined Diesel and Gas) propulsion question is intriguing. I have read several references that suggested the turbines might have been an afterthought to "top up" the diesel generators rather than an integral part of the original concept (not sure if that is true or not) ... this approach could be considered as either a design shortcoming or as a clever design solution. In some respects it's not the most elegant solution, albeit in the context of late-1990s design technologies it kinda makes sense.

Turbines are thirsty and noisy, yet they do allow the QM2 to cruise efficiently at 21 knots on the modest diesel propulsion generators, which allows for convenient, reliable 7-day Atlantic crossings AND with the flexibility to absorb diversions for weather, for SAR taskings or for other unforeseen reasons by maxing out the diesels or by kicking in the turbines.

Do not underestimate the value of the service reliability, nor of this flexibility in terms of speed vs fuel consumption.

 

From my Deck 12 cabin a few weeks ago, I found the QM2 to be virtually silent and vibration free. It was only on the lower decks (Deck 3 MDR and below) that I could feel any propulsion-related vibrations, and despite being in 12-001 (about as far from the CofG as any space on board) the worst ship motions were just enough to rock me gently to sleep, even in Force 7 near-gales.

If you jack up the speed another 10 knots, then the ship motions and the apparent wind (i.e. actual wind combined with ship's speed) begin to get a wee bit problematic for many pax.

 

As the officers described it, it sounded like the availability of several dozen extra MegaWatts of propulsive power in reserve was quite a desirable feature. I gather that similar turbine packages have been fitted on numerous other cruiseships as well, so clearly this solution has been embraced within the industry.

 

It would be interesting to hear the viewpoint of Cheng75 on these points, since he often provides authoritative insights on technical issues w.r.t. cruise ship technologies.

 

PJ

[eroller]

 

 

 

As the officers described it, it sounded like the availability of several dozen extra MegaWatts of propulsive power in reserve was quite a desirable feature. I gather that similar turbine packages have been fitted on numerous other cruiseships as well, so clearly this solution has been embraced within the industry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you have an interesting job, and I enjoyed reading your insight. I'm no engineer but I do find the technical aspects of passenger ships very interesting. My source was high up the chain and very interesting. I really enjoyed our conversation and I felt I learned a lot. I only wish I had the time to ask even more questions, but I didn't want to go overboard.

 

 

 

I'm not aware of too many cruise ships with the gas turbine arrangement of QM2. In fact few I can think of at the moment. Celebrity made a big splash when the Millennium Class ships were introduced. They even had GTS painted on their sides. They had a similar technical arrangement to QM2, and were built at the same yard. The sister class of Royal Caribbean (Radiance Class) were also built with gas turbines. Gas turbines never took off though with cruise ships on a large scale, the fuel being too cost prohibitive. In fact a few years back during extensive dry-dockings, Royal Caribbean (Celebrity) actually removed the gas turbines from the Millennium Class ships, and of course the GTS signage from the side of the ships as well. I'm not sure if they did this with the Radiance Class as well? All these ships stem from around 2000, close to QM2's debut. Gas Turbines seemed like "the next big thing" but I think their use in cruise ship application is quite limited.

 

 

 

Today of course the next big thing is LNG. We have MSC, Carnival Corp, and Royal Caribbean all building LNG powered ships (or a hybrid of) for their latest new builds. So far at least, it seems to be taking off to a much greater extent than the Gas Turbines did back in 2000.

Edited October 5, 2018 by eroller

[Germancruiser]

Interessting post indeed. I agree- on the Mary in the MDR - Deck 3 there is vibration - i must admit i love that slight rattling of the glases, when walking through - same in front of the elevators or in the Gangway connecting MDR and Theater.

 

 

 

We even had force 10 winds on a crossing - Mary took in stride- there was a slight rocking and rolling- but nothing severe!

 

 

I remember the Millenium Class of ships very well- i sailed all of them respectivley - they were in fact my favorite ships for years- not only because of their wonderful Speciality Restaurants- all ship related- but for the nice decor and classy interiour!

 

They even had deck chairs on their prommenade deck- at least in their debut years. Now they have get rid of them- to much work to stow them every evening i supose!

 

Also they had tons of problems with the propulusion system - i had two cruises shortened because of the failure of those! They even got millions of dollars of settlement from Rolls Royce!

[eroller]

I love Celebrity’s M-Class ships. I’ve sailed all four. They are all up for a major refurbishment to bring them up to the standards of the new EDGE. I’m excited about her too. Booked on EDGE in Feb.

 

QM2 and the M-Class ships both have Mermaid Pods and all the ships with those pods have suffered problems. It’s funny some of the decking has potholes just like QM2. Must be whatever the French shipyard uses because I haven’t experienced that on ships built at other shipyards.

 

There are still some deck chairs on the promenade of the M-Class ships, but nothing like QM2 which has the best promenade deck afloat.

 

I’m always amazed how stable QM2 is. By far the the most stable ship I’ve ever sailed. She just plows through most seas with little movement. I know in the same seas in just about any other ship I would be bobbing up and down, back and forth like crazy.

[luv2cruzuk]

Oh I think QM2 is a disappointment in that she was bred as a racing stallion and is now used as a Clydesdale. So much of her design, construction and cost went towards that one essential of a true express North Atlantic liner: speed. Speed in all weathers and all conditions. Indeed that's what distinguished her from the get go.

 

Now, operationally and economically, Carnival just decided they didn't want or couldn't afford to run what they wanted and got. So she's lumbering and loafing along at speeds not seen on a Cunard "express" liner since CAMPANIA and LUCANIA at the the turn of the century. She's a modern day take on the SCYTHIA.

 

It doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't appreciate and enjoy her many unique features, her quirky layout and the joys of crossing the North Atlantic. But if you missed crossing in her or QE2 at full speed, flat out, as a 5-day or 6-day boat, you missed a lot. And many of us who did are... disappointed that Carnival can't run what they built as designed. I guess you can buy a Ferrari and find you can't afford the petrol bill. And that's what they did.

 

Perhaps Cunard should introduce an 'Express Crossing' of 5 days! (once or twice a year) I would pay a premium to experience QM2, roaring across the Atlantic!

Edited October 6, 2018 by luv2cruzuk

[kohl57]

Oh yes indeed... I'd pay extra for a "QM2 Blue Riband Express Crossing".

 

I think QM2 has the capability to do a classic five-day crossing, too.

 

Sign me up

[MarkBearSF]

Oh yes indeed... I'd pay extra for a "QM2 Blue Riband Express Crossing".

I think QM2 has the capability to do a classic five-day crossing, too.

Sign me up

I would as well, but imagine it would be a hard sell for a shorter voyage that costs appreciably more.

 

- Mark

[sfbearcat]

QM2 doing a 5 day crossing will never happen....The price of oil is back up..I am hoping they keep the 7day crossings and not go 8 as they tried several times 2011-13 ..thou in 2019-2020 Cunard have replaced a true crossing with nothing more than a cruise with port stops in Iceland and Halifax in July! I crossed 5 times in 2004-2009 and liked the faster crossing ..thou I have grown to accept the 7 day standard and like it when there is a Sat/Sunday departure /arrival ...What I really think is missing is the sailway down the Hudson river ...much nicer than the current dock