I would like the new ship to have....

[rog747]

walk around promenade deck full width with teak decks and steamer chairs....?

 

Sorry - Fellow Cunarders, it is likely you will only get a narrow Prom deck (with fire proofed Faux teak decking, same as QE and QV)

but it will not be wide enough for wooden steamer chairs (or any in fact - apart possibly maybe one or two wider areas) just some wooden benches...

 

If you look at the Prom deck videos of the newish HAL Koningsdam or the very new (and similar) Nieuw Statendam you will see what I am on about...

These issues have all been brought about because of the new safety lifeboat regulations about where they are positioned on new build ships after the Costa Concordia debacle -- So unless Cunard undertake a major redesign of the 'out of the box' Hull this is what you will get.

 

I hope they do take our comments seriously that the wide Prom deck with chairs is a major tradition to be kept but don't hold your breath ;)

Edited September 30, 2018 by rog747

[kohl57]

Certainly true and I've been saying it around here for months.

 

BUT...it's been pointed out numerous times that the new Viking ships have "proper" promenade decks and surely they were designed/built after COSTA CONCORDIA?

 

The more plausible reason is that siting boats like this simply increases revenue earning as it gains an entire deck of unobstructed veranda cabins.

 

Either way, this was a "wish list".. and I haven't expected my wish list to come true since I was around 6-7 years old.

[Germancruiser]

Wonderful post kohl- I agree! All we can to is wish- and HOPE! I fear we are in for a new no Prommenade Deck Cunarder! Is it a dealbreaker- hm- well, I will cross that bridge when I am in front of it!

[Germancruiser]

Oh and apparently the new one is called Queen Anne- not my favorite name though- Queen Alexandra was my " wish"! LOL!

[rog747]

Queen Anne is a ghastly name - she was a unpopular queen and an antique chair has more notoriety than her reign - QA means nothing to most people apart from some awful History homework we really did not want to do in grammar School....lol

 

The 3 queens marketing was pretty good - as for 4 Queens? - Hmm doesn't quite have the same ring

 

Queen Alexandra - she was popular but she was a ''Consort'' not a reigning Queen

Mauretania would have been nice - a great Cunard ship, a traditional name and a third one would be rather good marketing

 

I'm interested that the new Viking ships have a full width Prom deck - this maybe due to their smaller size and the pax numbers (less than 1000) are less. They only have 3 lifeboats per side - they then would likely be exempt from the new rules re lifeboat locations and boarding them on larger ships

Edited October 1, 2018 by rog747

[Host Hattie]

Oh and apparently the new one is called Queen Anne- not my favorite name though- Queen Alexandra was my " wish"! LOL!

Has this been announced officially now ?

[kohl57]

QUEEN ANNE is an awful name indeed. It rather sounds like a Hollywood ship name contrived in the 1930s. Then again, absolutely nothing I've seen, heard or surmised about "the new ship" sounds vaguely appealing so maybe it's a perfect suitably name at that.

 

Sadly, Cunard has gotten themselves into a Royal bind entirely of their own making with this mania for Queen this and that. When, in fact, there are few real Queens to use as name. And Cunard has such a wealth of lovely sounding, distinctive and historic "real" Cunard names ending in the traditional "-ia".

 

But frankly, I would be insulted if the most famous Cunard name of them all.. MAURETANIA... was slapped on this hulk. So QUEEN ANNE it should be. A chair and a Cunarder all in one. Just not a steamer chair on a real promenade deck.

[rog747]

Has this been announced officially now ?

 

No not at all afaik - Hattie

[Germancruiser]

Oh yes- thats why I find Queen Alexandra matches- Queen Mary, Queen Elisabeth were both Queen Consorts- Queen Elisabeth 2 was named after her namesake the first Queen Elisabeth from the 30´s- NOT after the Queen herself- she herself stated that fact. Queen Mary 2 was named after - well we all know that. LOL! Queen Victoria is the only one which was named after a reigning Queen!

 

@Kohl- again i love your post...!

[Shuffleboard Dude]

QUEEN ANNE is an awful name indeed. It rather sounds like a Hollywood ship name contrived in the 1930s. Then again, absolutely nothing I've seen, heard or surmised about "the new ship" sounds vaguely appealing so maybe it's a perfect suitably name at that.

 

Sadly, Cunard has gotten themselves into a Royal bind entirely of their own making with this mania for Queen this and that. When, in fact, there are few real Queens to use as name. And Cunard has such a wealth of lovely sounding, distinctive and historic "real" Cunard names ending in the traditional "-ia".

 

But frankly, I would be insulted if the most famous Cunard name of them all. MAURETANIA... was slapped on this hulk. So QUEEN ANNE it should be. A chair and a Cunarder all in one. Just not a steamer chair on a real promenade deck.

 

You are right in a factual and logical perspective, but there is marketing involved.

Anne is a nearly perfect name as it can be correctly pronounced in many languages. Also this whole king, queen & royal nonsense suggests some extaordinary qualities - which aren't necessarily present. Anyone who's had lunch at King's Court will understand.

 

Personally I would like to see Cunard to go back to the old roman provinces/-ia scheme, but it could be a lot - seriously a lot worse.

 

Princess Cruises has given a synonymous name to ROYAL PRINCESS and REGAL PRINCESS, HAPAG has EUROPA and EUROPA 2 in service at the same time. RCI on the other hand follows the OF THE SEAS scheme, which isn't practical but gives passengers at least the opportunity to make cheesy jokes (MONSTROSITY OF THE SEAS, anyone?). By far the worst is TUI Cruises Germany. They named their ships MEIN SCHIFF (MY SHIP) 1 to 6 , but after replacing MEIN SCHIFF 2 with a newbuild they decided to rename the old ship "MEIN SCHIFF AND A BLOODY HEART SYMBOL NOBODY CAN WRITE". It's not even consistent with their own naming logic!

Essentially they created THE SHIP FORMERLY KNOWN AS PRINCE.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Shuffleboard Dude

[kohl57]

We sailed in Renaissance Cruises R7 (now AZAMARA QUEST) in 2000 when the name, along with everything about the line and product, was daring, new and different. So it worked. And had a certain Rhine river barge simplicity about it. Rather like Cunard's refreshing honesty in simply calling them One Deck, Two Deck instead of "Bahamas Deck" and "Ipswich Deck".

 

I really don't care about the new Cunarder and even less about the name. The proposed passenger capacity alone make it a write-off in my book. What I tire of is Cunard's rather shameless efforts to tie in its marketing with the Royal family when it's an American owned company ultimately whose Italian (or French)-built ships are registered in Bermuda and the captain on our recent QE cruise was a Dane. It's all an advertising contrivance more than any bona fide national symbol. So if QUEEN ANNE fits in with the advertising, so be it.

 

Frankly, I'd rather her be named Q7 which she is. And for a country of MI5, 007 and the M25, I think that conjures up the "Britishness" Cunard trades on.

[eroller]

Certainly true and I've been saying it around here for months.

 

BUT...it's been pointed out numerous times that the new Viking ships have "proper" promenade decks and surely they were designed/built after COSTA CONCORDIA?

 

The more plausible reason is that siting boats like this simply increases revenue earning as it gains an entire deck of unobstructed veranda cabins.

 

 

 

This is exactly the reason. It's entirely about revenue. As you mention, the new Viking ships have proper wrap-around promenade decks, and it looks like the new Disney ships will as well. Also the new Crystal Diamond Class is reported to have a proper wrap-around promenade deck. Not some narrow walkway behind lifeboats. The tradeoff is either a deck of obstructed view cabins, or a deck of public spaces that won't have views. The other option is placing a wide promenade deck above the lifeboats, which is what NCL's Breakaway Class, MSC's Seaside Class, and Carnival's Dream Class have done. Needless to say the new Cunarder won't have any of this. It's an existing HAL design and they are not going to make dramatic structural changes. As it is Cunard is getting a new build on the cheap, using a borrowed design from a sister brand. The same was true of QV and QE. QM2 is really the only from-scratch ship design that Cunard has, and I'm sure glad we have her!

[kohl57]

Worse, QE and QV are "Vistas" on the cheap as they lack the lovely teak decking on the Promenade Deck that the HAL ships have. But still, overall, my favourite "new" cruise ship class. Indeed, I'd rather have Carnival transfer EURODAM and NIEUW AMSTERDAM to Cunard and give HAL the fourth K'DAM ship.

 

It's a shame that having QM2, Carnival have indeed decided to let Cunard "coast" with off the shelf ships. "Halifax" class my eye... it's a K'DAM with a red/black funnel and black pudding for breakfast.

 

At least all this reinforces the uniqueness and attractiveness of QM2 and reminds us there won't be another one.

[eroller]

Worse, QE and QV are "Vistas" on the cheap as they lack the lovely teak decking on the Promenade Deck that the HAL ships have. But still, overall, my favourite "new" cruise ship class. Indeed, I'd rather have Carnival transfer EURODAM and NIEUW AMSTERDAM to Cunard and give HAL the fourth K'DAM ship.

 

It's a shame that having QM2, Carnival have indeed decided to let Cunard "coast" with off the shelf ships. "Halifax" class my eye... it's a K'DAM with a red/black funnel and black pudding for breakfast.

 

At least all this reinforces the uniqueness and attractiveness of QM2 and reminds us there won't be another one.

 

 

 

On the plus, the Cunard Vistas were the most expensive of the lot to construct, and they did make some great changes to the interior arrangement compared to the HAL Vistas. The Cunard version is much brighter and open (although yes very beige), with more two level spaces. I certainly prefer them over EURODAM and NIEUW AMSTERDAM. I hope the same will be true of the Cunard K-Dam.

 

I can't help but think that QM2 is a one-off that Carnival Corp. probably feels was a mistake, and never to be repeated. Carnival Corp. rarely takes risks, and QM2 was a major one. Unfortunately she is not used to her full potential which is sad.

[MarkBearSF]

Funny, I never got the feeling of regret around the QM2, only pride. She embodies much of the line's history and is the flagship. Since the QE2 fifty years ago, the line has had one flagship liner and it has one now. I recall a notorious rec.travel.cruises member back in the day who was convinced that they'd do a second - which makes no sense. Yes, perhaps she isn't living up to her strengths when she does cruises, but she's so popular that people still want to vacation on her, but may not want to do a crossing. Clearly, having a one-off ship in the fleet makes things somewhat more difficult than a fleet of sisters (and close cousins), but there's usually an odd duck or two in every fleet, anyway.

 

Now, in another 20 years - will they build a replacement? I hope so.

[eroller]

I certainly have pride in QM2 and I think Cunard does too, but from a Carnival corporate standpoint I’m not so sure. I question if they are seeing the payoff expected, and she is not doing the fast crossing like she was designed for. Was it really necessary to spend all that extra $$ on a power plant that rarely if ever is used to its full potential? An absolutely wonderful ship, but a bit of a failure in regards to how she is being utilized with that impressive and expensive power plant.

[rog747]

I do not think for one moment that Carnival's Micky has any regrets stumping up the $800m to build the QM2

 

He did this on his (very clever) gamble on the back of Cameron's movie Titanic of 1998 which then saw a surge in cruise bookings especially for the 'golden age' of cruising the Atlantic.

Thankfully without the sinking - however the costa concordia saw that the films ending was almost faithfully replicated sadly with tragic results for 32 pax and crew - The losses much less than the Titanic, but the Concordia was a hare's breath away from being the worst peacetime disaster had she gone over a kilometre away in deeper water - Now, because of THAT accident any ultra large new build ships of today will have differing lifeboat location and boarding regulations which has seen designers now

almost remove the wide Prom deck as seen on the HAL Pinnacle new builds K'Dam and the very latest N Statendam.

 

The cruise boom as we all know see's Millions of tonnes for new build ships on order, and the QM2 was pivotal to that.

 

Sadly due to fuel prices today QM2's extra gas turbines (old GE jet engines) guzzle fuel and they are not used like there were designed for a 29-30kts crossing.

(2 days have been added to the TA voyages now as it is cheaper to feed the pax than fuel the engines)

 

Cunard's latest ship due in a couple of years time is based on an enlarged Pinnacle class - whether they are widening the Prom deck remains to be seen...Let's hope they read the feedback and the designers can make tweaks - However based on the standard plans it's a very big tweak...

[kohl57]

Oh I think QM2 is a disappointment in that she was bred as a racing stallion and is now used as a Clydesdale. So much of her design, construction and cost went towards that one essential of a true express North Atlantic liner: speed. Speed in all weathers and all conditions. Indeed that's what distinguished her from the get go.

 

Now, operationally and economically, Carnival just decided they didn't want or couldn't afford to run what they wanted and got. So she's lumbering and loafing along at speeds not seen on a Cunard "express" liner since CAMPANIA and LUCANIA at the the turn of the century. She's a modern day take on the SCYTHIA.

 

It doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't appreciate and enjoy her many unique features, her quirky layout and the joys of crossing the North Atlantic. But if you missed crossing in her or QE2 at full speed, flat out, as a 5-day or 6-day boat, you missed a lot. And many of us who did are... disappointed that Carnival can't run what they built as designed. I guess you can buy a Ferrari and find you can't afford the petrol bill. And that's what they did.

Edited October 3, 2018 by kohl57

[eroller]

Now, because of THAT accident any ultra large new build ships of today will have differing lifeboat location and boarding regulations which has seen designers now

almost remove the wide Prom deck as seen on the HAL Pinnacle new builds K'Dam and the very latest N Statendam.

 

 

 

 

Not true. The driver for new promenade decks with the boats sitting on the deck, and a small walkway behind them is revenue, not new regulations since the Concordia. We still have brand new ships being built with traditional promenade decks in the same style as QV and QE (boats above, wide promenade deck directly below the boats). The new Viking Ocean new builds, the new Crystal Diamond Class, and the 3 Disney new builds. Cunard and HAL certainly had the option of a traditional promenade deck with their new builds (Pinnacle Class) but they opted for enhanced revenue, so the boats will sit on the deck, there will be no traditional wide promenade deck, and the deck above will be benefit from unobstructed view cabins and enhanced revenue.

 

The other option of a wide unobstructed view promenade deck is to place the boats underneath the promenade deck, and we see this design being used on Carnival's Dream Class, MSC Seaside Class, and NCL's Breakaway Class.

 

Back to QM2, if she were a roaring success we would see sisters. We don't and I doubt we ever will. Her success is limited and she is not being utilized as she was designed. Spending all that extra $$ on her power plant was pretty much a waste. From that perspective she is a failure. She just happens to be my favorite ship and I love her, but I'm not so blind to recognize that she is not being used as designed, and that is disappointing.

[eroller]

Oh I think QM2 is a disappointment in that she was bred as a racing stallion and is now used as a Clydesdale. So much of her design, construction and cost went towards that one essential of a true express North Atlantic liner: speed. Speed in all weathers and all conditions. Indeed that's what distinguished her from the get go.

 

 

 

Exactly my point. I'm with you 100%.

[seacruise9]

Hi,

 

I am a big fan of the QM2, but agree that it is unfortunate that the crossings have been lengthened to seven days. The current slower crossings frequently feel more like a cruise than a traditional express crossing. Fortunately, I was able to experience a five-day crossing on the QE2 in 1984 and six-day crossings on the QE2 in 2001 and 2003. I also have taken a seven-day crossing on the QM2 and an eight-day crossing on the Queen Victoria in more recent years.

 

Last week, I did a Mediterranean cruise on the Queen Victoria. On the two sea days, the ship only averaged about 12 knots. I realize that the ports are close together, but this speed felt extremely slow.

Edited October 3, 2018 by seacruise9

[kohl57]

The official Carnival line on this is indeed "Oh, we were forced to do it because of new safety regulations". That's a verbatim quote from the captain of the K'DAM when she came out and there was (and remains) enormous disappointment in the lack of what they once heralded as a wonderful feature of HAL (and Cunard) ships. Indeed, as soon as the K'DAM came out, all those photos of steamer chairs on the promenade deck in the brochures suddenly vanished. Poof!! You don't need it, you don't want and we were forced to do it. Which is why Carnival has happier shareholders than customers.

[eroller]

The revenue enhancing trend of placing boats directly on the deck started well before the Concordia disaster. It started in 2008 with the debut of Celebrity Solstice, a good 4 years prior to the Concordia accident. The Solstice design was the driver for many other cruise lines adopting the same design, as they saw the increased revenue potential.

[rog747]

Solstice and Oasis Class may well have positioned the lifeboats on the Prom deck before CC disaster for both commercial and safety reasons as Oasis certainly have the Mega 370 seat lifeboats - A new design over the previously regulated maximum of 150 seats as seen in the past.

 

After the accident the positioning of, and ensuring swift embarkation thereof the 'Mega' double deck lifeboats in large passenger vessels being newly built is def now in the statute book.

One can look up the regulations both pre and post CC.

As for the QM2, her use now, and her original role - Sadly in the past few years rising fuel prices and the economy thereof in all transportation modes (ship, planes and trains) have seen many changes and even complete U turns in procurement.

 

I can vouch for that having working with Virgin Atlantic from the late 1980's/early 1990's.

 

 

Our (Mr Branson's) motto was Virgin Atlantic, ''4 engines for Long Haul''

 

All our fleet had 4 engines, the 747 and the A340 - Well now the 747's are completely removed from the LHR fleet and at LGW they are used only on the high capacity leisure sun/beach routes, and they were supposed to be retired this year, but due to the (2 engined) Boeing 787 problems with their Rolls Royce engines it seems the 747 has now been retained for an indefinite period until these problems see the 787 Dreamliner fleet back on strength.

In the day Branson was very vocal that he would only ever use 4 engined jets across the Atlantic.

Oh how times and folk change when the price of jet fuel went up and up - Despite buying fuel in advance thus hedging the cost it's all about fuel economy in running todays' airlines - nothing else matters on the whole (nor in cruise ships) and many airlines have gone to the wall because of this.

So the Virgin fleet now sees only TWIN engined Airbus A330 & A350 and Boeing 787 being ordered - with the exception of the oldish 747 fleet (since the 1990's) which were supposed to be phased out by July 2018.

Some 4 engined A340's have been brought back out of warm storage (they were awaiting an unlikely new owner or the scrapman) and reactivated flying in the main fleet again whilst the airline is short of capacity due to the grounding of the new 787's.

 

So, as you see Branson was no different to Cunard who in themselves changed the complete ''express TA role'' for QM2 as built and envisaged, by adding 2 whole days to a TA voyage because of the continuing high price of fuel.

In the near term I cannot see that changing.

[lenquixote66]

Yes, I know there is another similar thread about this, but I thought it might help if we made simple suggestions without all the (un)necessary extra comments. I don't know if Cunard monitors this forum or even if they do whether they take any notice, but let's hope.

 

So

 

I would like:

 

A wraparound promenade deck

Self-service laundries.

 

Lots more I could add but I thought I'd leave it open to all.

 

 

Ships the way they were 40 years ago