Cruise inside cabin but eat in the Haven?

[GUEST71919]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

Without expressing my opinion on the video, the one fact you are missing is that they were brought TO the Haven by an NCL employee (providing wheelchair assist) at the direction of the NCL employee who checked them in (as VIPs) in the Haven

To me it’s impossible to evaluate the situation without judging the video - that is where they make their case and to me their “story” spoke volumes.  If it had gone the way it was laid out in the video description, every person in earshot would have gone gone after the concierge and written to Norwegian about the event. As a 58-year-old woman who’s been in a lot of situations in my life, I find the whole story as laid out in that video terribly unlikely.

 

 I completely understand that you want to be supportive of them. but I think that some of the people here feel that they went to great lengths to lay out their arguments and that they then perhaps altered things by allowing only positive comments regarding their “side” in a way that was unseemly. I don’t think that anyone here lacks any clarity on what they believe is their “case” (and in excruciating detail I should add). That is not meant to be insulting to you, honestly, but just to say most people are TOO well acquainted with their side of the argument and it seemed fair to offer another side. 

 

Happy sailing 🧜🏼‍♀️

[pcakes122]

10 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

Nope.  The video speaks for itself.  The NCL response speaks for itself.  They admit they were not given Haven access.  Their demand was based on an assumption they are "the media" and were given VIP status before on smaller NCL ships (their words, not mine).

I think you need to watch their video. NO HAVEN access NOR VIP status was ever given.  That is their story and clearly why the concierge bounced them from the Haven. 

Sorry, but you are wrong.  Watch their Haven check-in here, along with a tour of the Haven check-in area.  "Martha" checked them in.  Their key cards would NOT have been at the Haven desk if someone at NCL did not have them on a VIP list.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by pcakes122

[pcakes122]

14 minutes ago, 2Beeze said:

To me it’s impossible to evaluate the situation without judging the video - that is where they make their case and to me their “story” spoke volumes.  If it had gone the way it was laid out in the video description, every person in earshot would have gone gone after the concierge and written to Norwegian about the event. As a 58-year-old woman who’s been in a lot of situations in my life, I find the whole story as laid out in that video terribly unlikely.

 

 I completely understand that you want to be supportive of them. but I think that some of the people here feel that they went to great lengths to lay out their arguments and that they then perhaps altered things by allowing only positive comments regarding their “side” in a way that was unseemly. I don’t think that anyone here lacks any clarity on what they believe is their “case” (and in excruciating detail I should add). That is not meant to be insulting to you, honestly, but just to say most people are TOO well acquainted with their side of the argument and it seemed fair to offer another side. 

 

Happy sailing 🧜🏼‍♀️

The only thing I am supporting is that folks should base their judgment on the truth.   I am not blindly supporting anyone, but I feel the need to step forward and share the facts as I watched them on video (the cruise vlog filmed the day of the incident.)  It is clear to me they had been designated with VIP status if they checked in at the Haven desk.  So reading folks saying "INSIDE cabin dwellers DEMANDED Haven lunch!!" is clearly an unfair representation.   I didn't say I supported either the letter to NCL or the video about Adrian.  Frankly, if this happened to me, I would have been embarrassed and a bit confused, but I may have handled it another way.

 

PS For those of you who are disabled and/or have been Haven guests, it is clear that this was not regular NCL wheelchair assistance just by the uniforms of the person assisting them AND they were taken up on the private Haven elevator (used on debarkation day.)

Edited December 24, 2018 by pcakes122

[GUEST71919]

14 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

The only thing I am supporting is that folks should base their judgment on the truth.   I am not blinding supporting anyone, but I feel the need to step forward and share the facts as I watched them on video (the cruise vlog filmed the day of the incident.)  It is clear to me they had been designated with VIP status if they checked in at the Haven desk.  So reading folks saying "INSIDE cabin dwellers DEMANDED Haven lunch!!" is clearly an unfair representation.   I didn't say I supported either the letter to NCL or the video about Adrian.  Frankly, if this happened to me, I would have been embarrassed and a bit confused, but I may have handled it another way.

I really didn’t say you were blindly supporting them and hope you did not interpret it that way 😊 But I don’t necessarily believe the truth is on their side; it just doesn’t pass the “smell” test for me. I don’t think a person needs to be handicapped to be sensitive to the issues here, nor do I beleive that someone who is handicapped should automatically get the benefit of the doubt (nor a pass for bad behavior). 

 

You focused on the opening title of the thread, but if you read the posts below that you would see that the discussion went deeper than that and that there were valid points made. And most everyone here watched the the video too.  I have seen all the related videos and actually went back and rewatched them today with my spouse. His reaction was the same as mine (and note that he has no background on any of this).  For most people here, it was was far more about the attitude shown than about the meal.  And honestly, that is fair criticism.

 

If things occurred the way it was presented in their videos, I agree with you that I too would have been embarrassed! But when I evaluate all the data, including the inflammatory way it was laid out (and not knowing any of these individuals, but knowing quite a lot about human behavior from age and training and having been in those places around similar people), I find it very unlikely. My interest is not tit for tat here though, honestly, so I will head off now. Take care 😊

Edited December 24, 2018 by 2Beeze

[Two Wheels Only]

24 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

You are incorrect.  They wouldn't have had Haven check-in if they did not have VIP status.  They didn't "wander" into the Haven.  I am also disabled and you can't tell the wheelchair assist person to take you into the Haven.  It is key card entry.  Actually watch their vlog from that day (not the video about the letter - the actual cruise travel vlog.)  They absolutely had Haven check-in - they filmed it.

 

My mother (has never sailed in the Haven) had Haven check-in with us. She was escorted to the Haven lounge with us. She was greated and addressed by name by Adrien and he even knew her stateroom number. Adrien offered to give her a tour of the Haven. Adrien invited her (invitation in her stateroom) to the Q&A with the Captain in the Haven courtyard. None of that meant that she had access to the Haven restaurant or other areas unless it was approved by the concierge (Adrien) or higher.

 

There is a hierarchy as far as Haven guests. Anyone under Adrien cannot give Haven access without Adrien's approval. Getting an escort to the Haven (even by a NCL employee) isn't enough.

 

 

[pcakes122]

22 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

My mother (has never sailed in the Haven) had Haven check-in with us. She was escorted to the Haven lounge with us. She was greated and addressed by name by Adrien and he even knew her stateroom number. Adrien offered to give her a tour of the Haven. Adrien invited her (invitation in her stateroom) to the Q&A with the Captain in the Haven courtyard. None of that meant that she had access to the Haven restaurant or other areas unless it was approved by the concierge (Adrien) or higher.

 

There is a hierarchy as far as Haven guests. Anyone under Adrien cannot give Haven access without Adrien's approval. Getting an escort to the Haven (even by a NCL employee) isn't enough.

 

 

They were escorted to the Haven Restaurant at Martha's direction because she told them they were invited to have lunch there.  Why is that so difficult for people to believe?  I only cruise in the Haven now, but several years ago before I was a die-hard Haven cruiser I was surprised at the pier with VIP status.  (I even posted here to ask why I received that because while I was certainly pleased I was confused.)  I was directed at the pier to go to the Haven check-in area.  Once there, I got my key cards and was told I was a VIP on this voyage, and that I was invited to eat with Haven passengers FOR THE ENTIRE CRUISE.  I was also invited to the Captain's party in the Haven and received other amenities.  (I found out later it was because I had reached VIP level with the casino on my prior cruise.)  It's not a half-and-half kind of thing like with your mother.  She was your guest, not an NCL VIP.

 

So, it does happen, people.  Folks do get designated as VIPs (whether you think they deserve it or not.)  That said, if on the cruise where I had VIP status had I been told at the Haven restaurant that I didn't belong (especially in a dismissive way) , I would have been very confused.

 

I haven't seen that Kevin or Frank (Cruising with Wheels) have posted in their own defense (they are Cruise Critic members), so I just wanted to try to inject some actual facts to the discussion.

 

The hotel director onboard realized this was an NCL mistake (lack of communication between the PR department assigning VIP status, the Haven check-in and the Haven concierge) and offered the Haven dinner as a way to apologize for the mix-up.  I think Frank & Kevin were fine with letting it go at that point.  However, it seems they had some additional run-ins with Adrian later in the cruise and at debarkation.  THOSE things I didn't witness on video so I can't comment - however, from what they say, those additional things were what led them to demand an apology from NCL.  I can't defend OR criticize that because I don't know the facts.  But the Haven lunch?  I think they were definitely right and so did NCL.  (Hence the Haven dinner invite.)

Edited December 24, 2018 by pcakes122

[Two Wheels Only]

6 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

So, it does happen, people.  Folks do get designated as VIPs (whether you think they deserve it or not.)  That said, if on the cruise where I had VIP status I had been told at the Haven restaurant that I didn't belong (especially in a dismissive way) , I would have been very confused

 

It depends on what authority the person giving VIP status has in relation to the concierge. If someone other than the concierge HAS the authority over Adrien, then lunch should have been had. If the person doesn't have that authority, Adrien was correct in asking the "VIP" to leave.

 

If it is a matter of HOW Adrien asked them to leave, we are only hearing one version.

[pcakes122]

5 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

It depends on what authority the person giving VIP status has in relation to the concierge. If someone other than the concierge HAS the authority over Adrien, then lunch should have been had. If the person doesn't have that authority, Adrien was correct in asking the "VIP" to leave.

 

If it is a matter of HOW Adrien asked them to leave, we are only hearing one version.

I think it was honestly just a big misunderstanding & lack of communication.  It was the first Alaskan voyage, lots of actual VIPs onboard, etc.  As I mentioned in my edited post above, NCL did apologize for the mix-up and offered them dinner in the Haven (which NEVER would have happened if they were just interlopers who wandered into the Haven on their own.)  It's what happened later in the cruise that escalated the whole situation - and I agree that we are only hearing one version of those events  (at least with the check-in and escort to lunch, it is clear on their video vlog that NCL was calling the shots and they were not just wandering or making assumptions that they should be entitled to a Haven lunch.) 

Edited December 24, 2018 by pcakes122

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

I think it was honestly just a big misunderstanding & lack of communication

 

I posted pretty much the same comment when this first happened (that thread was deleted). 

 

I've watched videos from those two before this happened and I have nothing against them. I've also had great experiences with Adrien so I have nothing against him. 

 

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

It's what happened later in the cruise that escalated the whole situation - and I agree that we are only hearing one version of those events 

 

...which makes it impossible to really know what happened. The series of events makes it difficult to pick a side since one party may have been wrong in one event and the other was wrong in the other....OR one party may interpret the other as wrong in one event and that causes the "wronged" party to act differently than expected in the next event. 

 

We'll never know...

[GUEST71919]

Well the kumbaya was lovely while it lasted, yes? At least we have our memories and they can’t take that away. Goodnight Jim Bob.... 💗

 

Lynn

[bbnjcruiser]

1 hour ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

I posted pretty much the same comment when this first happened (that thread was deleted). 

 

I've watched videos from those two before this happened and I have nothing against them. I've also had great experiences with Adrien so I have nothing against him. 

 

 

...which makes it impossible to really know what happened. The series of events makes it difficult to pick a side since one party may have been wrong in one event and the other was wrong in the other....OR one party may interpret the other as wrong in one event and that causes the "wronged" party to act differently than expected in the next event. 

 

We'll never know...

 

These two seem to wind themselves all up in the inner workings of the staff whenever they can from watching their other videos. An hour long public evisceration of an employee they continued to harass all week is just beyond belief, and flips them neatly from being topical social media influencers to straight up trolls.

[Oakman58]

I certainly don’t know what happened and I doubt the video presents an accurate account either.  I do know this; if NCL had given me VIP status and as a COURTESY offered to let me dine in the Haven I would want it in writing. 

     In this case when the gentleman was denied a privilege granted as a courtesy then he should have turned said something like oh, sorry to have bothered you and then told his partner to wheel him to the Manhattan Room for lunch.  It seems to me he acted like a Prima Donna that had been denied a birthright.  I think the small number of VLOG followers he has went to his head and he thinks he truly is a VIP.

     It’s also obvious from his video he considered the concierge to be nothing more than a lowly employee of NCL.

 

[david_sobe]

To say this episode was a "misunderstanding" is missing the major point.  People get upset on ships all the time due to misunderstandings.  They like every other person have a right to vent all they want.  The issue I have that seems to be forgotten is using social media to shame, slander, and almost threaten people for not getting their way.  Showing up at a meet and greet, writing a 5 page letter, creating several videos demanding NCL fire their most beloved concierge is a level I don't think I have seen before.  They want him fired for doing his job and enforcing NCL rules. They have another video threatening NCL to go live on facebook because NCL was not fixing their toilet fast enough.  Cruise bloggers no matter how small they are should share cruise photos and experiences.  When they start having an agenda to lobby to get things and think they are entitled to is a bridge way too far.  Reminds me of the saying "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I THINK I AM"

The sad part in all of this is both guys claim to work or have worked in the service industry.  Let that sink in for a bit.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by david_sobe

[pcakes122]

1 hour ago, david_sobe said:

 They want him fired

Really?  I must have missed that.  Can you share exactly where you heard/saw this so I can see/hear it for myself?

[GUEST71919]

Hmmmm... you know, this is starting to seem like a “thou doesn’t protest too much” issue... a bit too defensive or defending... a bit too unwilling to acknowledge valid points and arguments for someone unconnected to the issue. 🧐 A little Don Quixote?  I think that it is not a useful conversation if that is the case, it is now at minimum a “us against them” issue (although I surely would not want to link myself if “my kind” was of “that type”). No point in arguing if that is that situation (if the fact he clearly was trying to get the Concierge in serious trouble isn’t clear or enough, the it’s obviously a waste of breath!).

 

I rechecked and it does appear that all the negative comments on most or all the videos (at least from the time of these forward) were deleted. Does that feel honest to everyone?  It seems there is zero ability to take a look at their own behavior and that does suggest things aren’t quite on the up and up (to disagree with that would be silly). I would find it very difficult to defend people who are willing rewrite history and create a false impression of support (no matter how many characteristics that we shared). The tribal attitude destroys -  I owe no allegiance to anything but to the facts. 

 

But I will miss this group, a smart bunch of folks and I have (had) enjoyed the discussion. I will go now, but I hope to run across this pack on the high seas so look for me! 😬😊🧜🏼‍♀️

 

P.S. Would it be totally inappropriate for me to get a custom t-shirt to wear on our upcoming NCL Cruise in the Haven that says “TEAM ADRIAN’? ❤️

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by 2Beeze

[pcakes122]

1 hour ago, 2Beeze said:

Hmmmm... you know, this is starting to seem like a “thou doesn’t protest too much” issue... a bit too defensive or defending... a bit too unwilling to acknowledge valid points and arguments for someone unconnected to the issue. 🧐 A little Don Quixote?  I think that it is not a useful conversation if that is the case, it is now at minimum a “us against them” issue (although I surely would not want to link myself if “my kind” was of “that type”). No point in arguing if that is that situation (if the fact he clearly was trying to get the Concierge in serious trouble isn’t clear or enough, the it’s obviously a waste of breath!).

 

I rechecked and it does appear that all the negative comments on most or all the videos (at least from the time of these forward) were deleted. Does that feel honest to everyone?  It seems there is zero ability to take a look at their own behavior and that does suggest things aren’t quite on the up and up (to disagree with that would be silly). I would find it very difficult to defend people who are willing rewrite history and create a false impression of support (no matter how many characteristics that we shared). The tribal attitude destroys -  I owe no allegiance to anything but to the facts. 

 

But I will miss this group, a smart bunch of folks and I have (had) enjoyed the discussion. I will go now, but I hope to run across this pack on the high seas so look for me! 😬😊🧜🏼‍♀️

 

P.S. Would it be totally inappropriate for me to get a custom t-shirt to wear on our upcoming NCL Cruise in the Haven that says “TEAM ADRIAN’? ❤️

 

 

Not sure where to start, but you are reading a whole lot more into my posts than is there.  

 

The only reason I joined this discussion is that it seemed to me that there was alot of that going on.  Folks commenting not so much about facts, but about what they assumed were facts.  For example, that they wandered into the Haven on their own, that they demanded the concierge be fired (still waiting on this evidence and will apologize if I am wrong), etc.  I have no issue with what anyone thinks about how they handled the situation.  I haven't even my posted my own thoughts on that (other than to say I may have handled it another way.)

 

Suggesting I am "defending" anyone because we "share characteristics" (i.e. I am also disabled) is laughable.  Being disabled doesn't make me stupid or unable to think for myself.   Disabled people are not part of a "tribe."  Wow.  I would think in 2019 people had evolved past these kinds of prejudices.

 

I had seen their prior videos because I appreciate tips & tricks on traveling with disability - which is how I happened to see their Bliss vlogs (showing their Haven check-in.)  

 

I thought it was an important FACT to bring to the discussion.  "Kumbaya" doesn't mean everyone has to agree.  To me it means mutual respect despite differing opinions.  Sorry if I spoiled the "vibe" by sharing facts.

 

Again, I don't have a public opinion to share about the way they handled their experience or manage their You Tube channel, and you are certainly entitled to yours.   However please keep your opinions and thoughts about ME and my motivations to yourself, and I promise to do the same.

[Trimone]

13 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

They were escorted to the Haven Restaurant at Martha's direction because she told them they were invited to have lunch there.  Why is that so difficult for people to believe?  I only cruise in the Haven now, but several years ago before I was a die-hard Haven cruiser I was surprised at the pier with VIP status.  (I even posted here to ask why I received that because while I was certainly pleased I was confused.)  I was directed at the pier to go to the Haven check-in area.  Once there, I got my key cards and was told I was a VIP on this voyage, and that I was invited to eat with Haven passengers FOR THE ENTIRE CRUISE.  I was also invited to the Captain's party in the Haven and received other amenities.  (I found out later it was because I had reached VIP level with the casino on my prior cruise.)  It's not a half-and-half kind of thing like with your mother.  She was your guest, not an NCL VIP.

 

So, it does happen, people.  Folks do get designated as VIPs (whether you think they deserve it or not.)  That said, if on the cruise where I had VIP status had I been told at the Haven restaurant that I didn't belong (especially in a dismissive way) , I would have been very confused.

 

I haven't seen that Kevin or Frank (Cruising with Wheels) have posted in their own defense (they are Cruise Critic members), so I just wanted to try to inject some actual facts to the discussion.

 

The hotel director onboard realized this was an NCL mistake (lack of communication between the PR department assigning VIP status, the Haven check-in and the Haven concierge) and offered the Haven dinner as a way to apologize for the mix-up.  I think Frank & Kevin were fine with letting it go at that point.  However, it seems they had some additional run-ins with Adrian later in the cruise and at debarkation.  THOSE things I didn't witness on video so I can't comment - however, from what they say, those additional things were what led them to demand an apology from NCL.  I can't defend OR criticize that because I don't know the facts.  But the Haven lunch?  I think they were definitely right and so did NCL.  (Hence the Haven dinner invite.)

Originally I said it was lack of communication, some contractors associated with NCL use the Haven facilities, and pay nominal fees for their cruise.

My opinion, this couple do more for wheelchair use on board all cruises than most people, it’s a shame the powers in CC don’t hand out penalties culprits that victimised people without the facts. I get penalised for silly innocent comments which affect no one personally.

[NLH Arizona]

I watched about 2 minutes of the video and couldn't watch anymore, because the person was way to dramatic for me.  I have no respect for anyone who would use social media to blackmail a company to get something.  

[e2011]

This is so funny.  The ME generation in classic form.  

 

NOTE TO ANDREW STUART, CEO

 

Please revoke this guys Latitudes status immediately and ban him from NCL.  Because if I have to share the Haven with non Haven guests you will lose my business and many others. By the way he currently has 6,431 subscribers to his youtube site. My youtube site has over 1.2 million subscribers and I always pay for Haven and never would ask about VIP Press status. 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by e2011

[david_sobe]

58 minutes ago, e2011 said:

This is so funny.  The ME generation in classic form.  

 

NOTE TO ANDREW STUART, CEO

 

Please revoke this guys Latitudes status immediately and ban him from NCL.  Because if I have to share the Haven with non Haven guests you will lose my business and many others. By the way he currently has 6,431 subscribers to his youtube site. My youtube site has over 1.2 million subscribers and I always pay for Haven and never would ask about VIP Press status. 

Ha!  By their standards, your youtube channel would allow you to shower with the captain and steer the ship 😉

 

 

[e2011]

 

Now thats funny! Merry Christmas to All and to All A Good Night

[Casino Comp Chick]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:52 PM, pcakes122 said:

They were escorted to the Haven Restaurant at Martha's direction because she told them they were invited to have lunch there.  Why is that so difficult for people to believe? 

 

Because if you watch video 1 & 2 back to back you will see how many lies he told. He is a self entitled buffoon and I still think he should be banned from ever sailing NCL again. 

[pcakes122]

6 hours ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

 

Because if you watch video 1 & 2 back to back you will see how many lies he told. He is a self entitled buffoon and I still think he should be banned from ever sailing NCL again. 

Again, I'm not commenting what I think of the letter or Haven Hitman video except to say I would have handled it differently.  But the Haven check-in and NCL escort to the Haven is actually ON VIDEO (the vlog I linked to above which was filmed at embarkation.)  That's why I can't understand how THAT part of the story is in dispute.  It's documented.  It happened.

[MHKBCrusin]

On 12/21/2018 at 7:25 PM, ziggyuk said:

 

Unfortunately they started matching lower since October, NCL Platinum used to match to black but now only matches to gold, I think they may have overdone it.

I keep thinking about matching status on other cruise lines, but have yet to try to do it since we usually have cruise next certs and other lines have not been able to match the CAS rates we get with NCL.

 

[AtlantaAlly]

Just curious, is Adrien still going to be on Bliss in June?