Unlimited Dining Package "Service Charge"

[John&LaLa]

4 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Yep and way more than the $2 something I was responding to.

 

And that is why tips are important. 

My son was a bartender/server. He made great money, but lousy hours and hard work

 

I dont think he would have done it for $14 USD

Edited June 2, 2019 by John&LaLa

[SantaFeFan]

18 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

You do know that $20 AUD is less than $14 USD 😉

 

I think Seattle has gone to $15 an hour minimum.  My son tells me McDonalds is about 50% more expensive now

 

That is the result of paying "proper" wages. I don't actually mind paying higher prices if the workers benefit from them. Where I mind is when only the corporate high management get the benefit, something we are seeing too much of in recent years. CEO and upper management compensation is skyrocketing while the average company employee is gaining only pennies. 

 

A few people have posted here with an attitude of how superior their wage system is in their countries. It is not superior. It is only different. Gratuity based wage systems often work quite well. A good waiter or bartender can make a very nice income from gratuities. Better than even salary based wage systems in many cases. 

 

And, in those non-gratuity countries many cruise lines have been forced to include the gratuities into the base fare because so many locals removed them out of "principal", which is code for selfishness. Including gratuities in the base fare is the only way to ensure that the hard working staff get the expected income they signed up for. Yes, gratuities are no longer expected in those situations, but the base fare is adjusted higher to compensate for the lost gratuity income for the workers. The cruise lines pass the extra cost to the passengers, just as they do in regions where gratuities are still in place. The customer still pays the wages in either case.

 

Nothing is free when it comes to cruising. Even in the land of Oz. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[GUT2407]

Yet some Americans are always ready to become abusive over non-tipping cultures, the American way isn’t better, or right, just different.

[steven3367]

9 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Clearly, you have a conspiracy approach to life. LOL. 

 

 

And what is a "proper wage"? Proper where you live? Proper where the individual lives? Proper in the country the ship is registered in? Proper where the corporate headquarters is located? All of these will be different, especially where the individual lives since each of the countries represented by the crew have different standards of living.

 

What is your "proper" answer? 

 

 

To name just a few:

 

 - Restaurant waiters in several countries. 

 - Valet parking attendants in many countries. 

 - Casino dealers everywhere.

 - Pizza delivery person.

 - Porters in many areas.

 - Bartender.

 - And, yes, even exotic dancers.

 - Golf caddy. 

 

HINT: whether they receive wages partially from tips or 100% from a salary, the customer makes up every dollar of their wages. All the company does is divert some of the revenue to their paychecks, but that revenue comes from customers who purchase their products.  It is YOU who pays it all, regardless of the system.  

 

PS: one more point - the crew agrees to the wages they are to be paid. They willingly accept the system as it is. If you ask them, they will tell you they make more in a tip based wage system than a salary based wage system. That is why you never hear a steward or waiter complain about how unfair the tip system is. 

 

 

[steven3367]

like i said its in the americans culture the man who was on about his son working for 14 Dollars a hour thats a great wage in the uk most make around 11 dollars a hour thats our minimum wage with no tips, if he wouldnt work for less he would be out of job as plenty willing to work for that amount as for

 

Restaurant waiters in several countries. 

 - Valet parking attendants in many countries. 

 - Casino dealers everywhere.

 - Pizza delivery person.

 - Porters in many areas.

 - Bartender.

 - And, yes, even exotic dancers.

 - Golf caddy. 

 

you must live a great life valet parking i honstly cannot think of anywhere around where i live that has this maybe in london i dont know, casino  dealers never go so cant comment, pizza delivery drivers they tend to get what rounds it off to nearest pound ours tend to get so much per delivery , porters none round here, bartenders maybe in high class places but not in your local pub maybe he might get the odd drink,  exotic dancers yet again not alot round where i live and golf caddy wouldnt know

 

even on this post you can tell who is american

 

 

[SantaFeFan]

6 hours ago, steven3367 said:

even on this post you can tell who is american

 

 

Same could be said for Brits and Aussies. They are the ones continually lecturing about that the workers should be paid "proper wages" and then are first in line to remove the gratuities because "we don't having tipping where we come from", leaving the poor workers with even less wages (try to figure out THAT rational)!

 

At least Americans can't be accused of being cheap and selfish. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[steven3367]

so you think that service workers shouldnt be paid proper wages by large companys and hope that people feel sorry for them and tip them to give them a decent wage not how it works in most countrys apart from america i do tip and so do most english and aussies if they get great service

 

4 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Same could be said for Brits and Aussies. They are the ones continually lecturing about that the workers should be paid "proper wages" and then are first in line to remove the gratuities because "we don't having tipping where we come from", leaving the poor workers with even less wages (try to figure out THAT rational)!

 

At least Americans can't be accused of being cheap and selfish. 

so you think that staff should be paid less by the firms and make the money up by tipping fair enough i would rather pay someone a decent wage then top up his wage by tipping if the service provided was above what i would expect like i said in previous post i have tipped above the recomended and i have also removed tips when the service was terrible its my choice at the end of the day, amercians are bought up tipping its part of your culture but not ours

Quote

 

 

 

[SantaFeFan]

2 hours ago, steven3367 said:

so you think that service workers shouldnt be paid proper wages by large companys and hope that people feel sorry for them and tip them to give them a decent wage not how it works in most countrys apart from america i do tip and so do most english and aussies if they get great service

 

so you think that staff should be paid less by the firms and make the money up by tipping fair enough i would rather pay someone a decent wage then top up his wage by tipping if the service provided was above what i would expect like i said in previous post i have tipped above the recomended and i have also removed tips when the service was terrible its my choice at the end of the day, amercians are bought up tipping its part of your culture but not ours

 

 

I think the cruise lines (or any other business) and the people who hire on with them should be the ones to decide how their wages are to be handled. It isn't any of my business to decide what is best for them. It is my business, however, to go along with what they have agreed is a working system for them and not fight it by imposing my own values on that system. I am perfectly happy to follow the recommendations that I am given on how to handle such issues, no matter where I am, or what country I am in, or what cultural norms are in play where I am spending my recreation money. I'm a "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" person. If the lines (or countries) have a tipping system in place, I will participate in the suggested process without complaint. If they don't, I also willingly participate in that process. I am not so arrogant as some who think that their idea is the only one worthy of consideration, and complain and dodge their responsibility to follow the process that has been put in place because it isn't "their way". 

 

On a side note, I have never encountered service so bad on a cruise that I felt the need to remove the gratuities. Perhaps it is because I either don't place myself on a pedestal and demand my every whim be instantly serviced, or perhaps it is because I treat the service staff with the respect that any human deserves, and they in turn treat me just as well. That you frequently have issues with service levels says more about you than about the service staff, IMHO.

 

If I do on very rare occasions have an issue with the service, I contact the appropriate supervisor and voice my concerns. The issue is always corrected immediately. For the life of me I cannot understand how someone can accept poor service for the duration of a cruise, only to punish the staff at the very end by removing their gratuities. Seems pretty dumb to me to put up with something for days on end only to try to make some weak point at the end. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, steven3367 said:

so you think that service workers shouldnt be paid proper wages by large companys and hope that people feel sorry for them and tip them to give them a decent wage not how it works in most countrys apart from america i do tip and so do most english and aussies if they get great service

 

so you think that staff should be paid less by the firms and make the money up by tipping fair enough i would rather pay someone a decent wage then top up his wage by tipping if the service provided was above what i would expect like i said in previous post i have tipped above the recomended and i have also removed tips when the service was terrible its my choice at the end of the day, amercians are bought up tipping its part of your culture but not ours

 

 

It's not a question of what system is better, Royal has decided to use a tipping culture, and those who dont tip take it out on the staff. 

In my opinion

[John&LaLa]

13 hours ago, steven3367 said:

like i said its in the americans culture the man who was on about his son working for 14 Dollars a hour thats a great wage in the uk most make around 11 dollars a hour thats our minimum wage with no tips, if he wouldnt work for less he would be out of job as plenty willing to work for that amount as for

 

Restaurant waiters in several countries. 

 - Valet parking attendants in many countries. 

 - Casino dealers everywhere.

 - Pizza delivery person.

 - Porters in many areas.

 - Bartender.

 - And, yes, even exotic dancers.

 - Golf caddy. 

 

you must live a great life valet parking i honstly cannot think of anywhere around where i live that has this maybe in london i dont know, casino  dealers never go so cant comment, pizza delivery drivers they tend to get what rounds it off to nearest pound ours tend to get so much per delivery , porters none round here, bartenders maybe in high class places but not in your local pub maybe he might get the odd drink,  exotic dancers yet again not alot round where i live and golf caddy wouldnt know

 

even on this post you can tell who is american

 

 

 

You may be referring to me.

What I tried to say is,that my son had options, and he would not work nights away from his family, on his feet for 8 hours for $14 an hour. He would choose a more traditional employment at that rate.  

 

When Royal recruits, they try and tell the prospective employees what their final pay could be. That pay includes tips for many workers

Edited June 2, 2019 by John&LaLa

[steven3367]

i did try and complaint to the department and also guest services at the time but they were not intrested in fact one just shrugged her shoulders and said i dont understand english i basically gave up after couple of tries getting nowhere please note this was on a norwegian ship if you have only had great service well good for you i havent found this myself and maybe i expect a higher level of service than you do

[steven3367]

google why do americans tip very intresting reading

[GUT2407]

1 hour ago, steven3367 said:

google why do americans tip very intresting reading

I note he suggests servers touch the customer as a way of increasing tips, that’d pretty much guarantee a big fat zero from me.

[Judyrem]

On 6/1/2019 at 11:08 PM, GUT2407 said:

Yet some Americans are always ready to become abusive over non-tipping cultures, the American way isn’t better, or right, just different.

I don't know anyone who becomes abusive over non tipping cultures.  

[goodml]

1 hour ago, Judyrem said:

I don't know anyone who becomes abusive over non tipping cultures.  

 

You must not read many tipping threads. 

[goodml]

On 6/2/2019 at 10:37 AM, SantaFeFan said:

 

Same could be said for Brits and Aussies. They are the ones continually lecturing about that the workers should be paid "proper wages" and then are first in line to remove the gratuities because "we don't having tipping where we come from", leaving the poor workers with even less wages (try to figure out THAT rational)!

 

At least Americans can't be accused of being cheap and selfish. 

 

 

 

Pretty wide brush you’re painting with there. 

[Judyrem]

4 minutes ago, goodml said:

 

Pretty wide brush you’re painting with there. 

Pot/kettle?

[Judyrem]

6 minutes ago, goodml said:

 

You must not read many tipping threads. 

I don't actually but for some reason I decided to read this thread.  

I don't castigate tippers or no tippers.

 

I just thought you were painting with pretty wide brush there.

[goldfish65]

As a life-long tipped employee in the USA, my perspective...it is considered good manners to learn and adhere to the customs wherever you travel. The cruise ship workers work very hard, they are not getting rich, very likely they are helping their families, they come from less favorable circumstances than most of us have been blessed with. Think about the amounts of money we are talking about, it's not a lot. A few extra dollars per day. You're on vacation, it lightens your mood to show a little generosity to those who are helping you to enjoy yourselves.

[SantaFeFan]

29 minutes ago, Judyrem said:

I don't castigate tippers or no tippers.

 

I do castigate people who take advantage of the hard working crew, regardless of if they come from non-tipping or tipping cultures. To deny them the income they expect, including the tips in the gratuity based wage system on board cruise lines that are structured that way, because of greed or because "it isn't the way it is done where I live", is wrong. It isn't their fault that the cruise line has established that system. Why punish the workers for the decisions made at corporate level? 

Edited June 3, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[Davebhoy]

25 minutes ago, goldfish65 said:

As a life-long tipped employee in the USA, my perspective...it is considered good manners to learn and adhere to the customs wherever you travel. 

 

If we're talking about cruising in Europe, then the customs where you're travelling are very different to the States - so shouldn't it still follow the local approach and not have a reliance on tipping ?

[SantaFeFan]

38 minutes ago, Davebhoy said:

 

If we're talking about cruising in Europe, then the customs where you're travelling are very different to the States - so shouldn't it still follow the local approach and not have a reliance on tipping ?

 

Isn't that what goldfish65 suggested? Why are you confused? 

[Davebhoy]

29 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Isn't that what goldfish65 suggested? Why are you confused? 

Don't remember saying I was confused.

Goldfish65 seemed to be suggesting that tipping should be expected when cruising - i pointed out that local custom in Europe doesn't match the cruise lines.

Why are you confused ?

[goldfish65]

American cruise ship sailing in Europe= tipping is expected unless they say otherwise.

[SantaFeFan]

13 minutes ago, Davebhoy said:

Don't remember saying I was confused.

Goldfish65 seemed to be suggesting that tipping should be expected when cruising - i pointed out that local custom in Europe doesn't match the cruise lines.

Why are you confused ?

 

Not sure why the phrase you quoted, "it is considered good manners to learn and adhere to the customs wherever you travel", is something to correct. He suggested to tip where tipping is the norm, and don't where it isn't. You corrected him on something he wrote that agreed with you. You are arguing against your own point.