Noro on Marina

[LHT28]

They normally do not take pax cruise cards when quarantined on O  they trust people to stay in their cabins

On the cruise in question some people were going to the GDR when they were under orders to stay in their cabin 

Then they took one person's card away  & she was seen in the shops  later in the day

This is how it spreads people

If you do a search you will see photos people took of the cabin doors with red tape across them ...  so yes it did happen

 

I do not understand  when you are sick you do not just stay in your cabin & not spread  the joy to others

As for clearing the tables of everything  it is protect those that are not ill from others that might be out spreading the noro

 

 

I am sure the crew  are tired of having to clean constantly because some people are unhygienic

With all the moaning going on no wonder the staff  do not want to be confronted by pax

What do you really expect them to do  that they are not doing to protect those that are not ill ??

We go through this every time here when  an outbreak happens

 

If you have ever had NORO   you would be glad they are  doing what they are doing

 

[pinotlover]

A few years back a friend that worked on Celebrity told me if their passengers broke quarantine the policy was to put them off the ship at the next available port and then onto their “ no sail list” banning them from future cruises. Don’t know if that’s still policy there but imo it needs to be on Oceania 

[Mura]

We were on Marina four years ago when an outbreak occurred.  Besides the constant cleaning routine by the crew, I remember that the laundry rooms were closed.  I don't recall if the executive and concierge lounges were closed, but we don't use those so it's not surprising that I don't recall.  But I'm pretty sure that the specialty restaurants remained open.  If the GDR and Terrace remain open, why shouldn't the specialties also remain open?

 

I agree that the passengers are the main problem!  Once you see people leaving the loo without bothering to wash their hands it's pretty clear how these things can spread.  I always thought my mother was nuts to insist on opening the door with a towel upon leaving a rest room.  Now I know better.

 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Glenndale said:

 

Just interested as to what you felt discussion would have achieved?

It sounds as if the ship's crew were doing their utmost to contain the virus.

I've been on ships when there have been Noro/GI outbreaks and yes it can be inconveniencing but apart from taking the utmost precautions yourself what did you think a talk with the GM/Corporate would have achieved?

Did you expect to be compensated for something outside of their control?

 

The problem was not the crew it was the medical and management decisions on how to handle the problem.

 

First, without going into details, I have a chronic GI condition and rather than listening to me and providing the appropriate OTC meds they refused to believe me and put my wife, who was not at all sick, and I in quarantine. I had run out of the meds...my fault, but it's something I only take when having symptoms so it's hard to judge how much I might need. It was a long cruise and it was going to be several days at sea until we reached the next port, where I would be able to buy it at any local pharmacy. The quarantine was longer than needed even if I did have noro, as confirmed by both my personal physician after I came home, and another ship's physician who works on another NCLH ship I happened to have engaged in conversation long after this incident. 

 

Second, our room service orders while we were quarantined were not delivered in a reasonable amount of time, were often wrong and almost invariably hot food was cold and virtually inedible. Given the limited and not particularly appetizing choices we were allowed to order to begin with this wasn't pleasant.

 

Third, we later learned that some mid level dining staff actually quit and left the ship mid cruise because of apparently inappropriate management handling of the situation. Given that someone not completing their contract has to pay for their own flight(s) home that's a pretty serious indication of something not being right.

 

This seems to be a pattern on Oceania because my cruise was hardly the only one I've read about where the handling of noro outbreaks was inadequate or improper.

 

The reason for wanting to talk to corporate was to register my complaints in the hope that Oceania could use them to improve their procedures. I felt it was important to do so because the GM was such a nasty, arrogant SOB. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by njhorseman

[Sopwith]

45 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The reason for wanting to talk to corporate was to register my complaints in the hope that Oceania could use them to improve their procedures. I felt it was important to do so because the GM was such a nasty, arrogant SOB. 

This.  It’s not about the fact that noro happened, it’s about how it was handled. O had an opportunity to express how much they value my business.  Their message was received and understood.  Time to move on.

[LHT28]

52 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The problem was not the crew it was the medical and management decisions on how to handle the problem.

 

First, without going into details, I have a chronic GI condition and rather than listening to me and providing the appropriate OTC meds they refused to believe me and put my wife, who was not at all sick, and I in quarantine.

Did  they test you for NORO?

I think they should  quarantined  all occupants of the cabin even if one is not ill  when NORO is suspected  as one can be a carrier  they may or may not get sick themselves

DH only had the symptoms for a few hours  where I was down for count for 2 days 

 

 

Might be worth it to carry a letter from your MD  incase you should run into problems again 

[clo]

13 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Did  they test you for NORO?

 

It's mostly diagnosed by symptoms as IIRC 'testing' is done via stool samples and I'd be surprised if a cruise ship has the trained person to do that.  And the symptoms can be symptoms of other things also. That's why I asked if they have actually announced that it's noro and how they made that decision.

[LHT28]

might be worth reading

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/faq/faq.htm

 

Of course they do stool samples  that is the way to tell if it is NORO or not

Trouble is most people do not report to the medical centre  until they are severely dehydrated  which leads to other medical issues/complications in older adults

[ClubSandwich]

Onboard Marina now, sailing through a thunderstorm. Just registered to chime in here because this subject is of great concern to me.

 

I don't think anyone can fairly blame the crew or Oceania for the outbreak. This is the last thing anybody wants. The crew in particular have been working extra-hard for days now, and what they are doing shouldn't even be considered an inconvenience compared to days of vomiting and diarrhea.

 

However...

 

Passengers need to know what is going on. It is a required component of an effective response plan.

 

On this particular voyage, the ship's medical staff became aware of a few cases of "the" passenger illness on day 2. On day 3, some unusual announcements about using the hand sanitizers began, as did some, shall we say "enhanced scrutiny" of passengers and staterooms. By day 4, the ship was already undergoing deep cleaning in the hallways by men in bunny suits wearing respirators.

 

Despite that, whoever makes these decisions still chose not to inform the passengers of what was going on. They "quietly" began outbreak response measures, instead of treating the passengers as adults and informing them of the increasing severity of the situation.

 

It wasn't until the end of day 5 that the passengers even heard from the Captain (at all) or the Cruise Director that there was a situation onboard serious enough to report to the CDC.

 

That is 72 hours, 48 hours too-late. Unacceptable.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Did  they test you for NORO?

I think they should  quarantined  all occupants of the cabin even if one is not ill  when NORO is suspected  as one can be a carrier  they may or may not get sick themselves

DH only had the symptoms for a few hours  where I was down for count for 2 days 

 

 

Might be worth it to carry a letter from your MD  incase you should run into problems again 

We were asked for specimens after the fact and provided them. I'm not certain but I don't think the ship's medical facility has the equipment to analyze them anyway. I was under the impression they would be sent to an outside lab for analysis and since we were in the midst of a lengthy at-sea segment of the cruise we were released from quarantine before they could have been tested. In any event we were released from quarantine solely on the basis of time served and our reporting to the nurse via telephone that we were asymptomatic . Not exactly competent medical practice. I'm OK just because i say I'm OK? It's just as bad as my being declared "not OK" without a history being taken or a proper exam. 

 

Sorry, the medical staff was grossly incompetent in how they handled both incoming and outgoing patients. I've never been to a medical facility  where I was not permitted to provide a history. Any competent physician asks for one...indeed insists on one. There's no need to carry a statement from my personal physician. I'm not suffering from a rare medical condition that a physician might not be familiar with . It's not a communicable disease. If I had been allowed a minute to explain I would not have been forced to spend three days in "jail", and certainly my wife wouldn't have.

 

 

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, ClubSandwich said:

Onboard Marina now, sailing through a thunderstorm. Just registered to chime in here because this subject is of great concern to me.

 

I don't think anyone can fairly blame the crew or Oceania for the outbreak. This is the last thing anybody wants. The crew in particular have been working extra-hard for days now, and what they are doing shouldn't even be considered an inconvenience compared to days of vomiting and diarrhea.

 

However...

 

Passengers need to know what is going on. It is a required component of an effective response plan.

 

On this particular voyage, the ship's medical staff became aware of a few cases of "the" passenger illness on day 2. On day 3, some unusual announcements about using the hand sanitizers began, as did some, shall we say "enhanced scrutiny" of passengers and staterooms. By day 4, the ship was already undergoing deep cleaning in the hallways by men in bunny suits wearing respirators.

 

Despite that, whoever makes these decisions still chose not to inform the passengers of what was going on. They "quietly" began outbreak response measures, instead of treating the passengers as adults and informing them of the increasing severity of the situation.

 

It wasn't until the end of day 5 that the passengers even heard from the Captain (at all) or the Cruise Director that there was a situation onboard serious enough to report to the CDC.

 

That is 72 hours, 48 hours too-late. Unacceptable.

I would  agree  at the first sign of trouble  they should inform the pax 

Maybe then people would start exercising more  caution  like extra washing of hands & not touching railings etc..

 

Maybe they do not want to send everyone into panic mode   but good communication is vital in my opinion when Noro is suspected

As i said many will not go to the medical centre  & just continue with their  day  because they do not want to be confined  to their cabin

 

Since the symptoms  are similar to other  problems  people just think it was food poisoning or GI upset

I know that is what I thought  when it hit me in the night  ..we had picked up a sandwich at the connecting airport on the way home  & about 12 hrs later  I was on my death bed

thank goodness it was MY BED 

I have had bad food poisoning  & it felt like the same symptoms

 

Keep washing your  hands do not touch your face  until you have

Keep well

[LHT28]

6 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

We were asked for specimens after the fact and provided them. I'm not certain but I don't think the ship's medical facility has the equipment to analyze them anyway. I was under the impression they would be sent to an outside lab for analysis and since we were in the midst of a lengthy at-sea segment of the cruise we were released from quarantine before they could have been tested.

 

 

I  believe that is the case  they do send them to an outside lab  but  having the specimens can confirm  that is was/is NORO or something else

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, clo said:

It's mostly diagnosed by symptoms as IIRC 'testing' is done via stool samples and I'd be surprised if a cruise ship has the trained person to do that.  And the symptoms can be symptoms of other things also. That's why I asked if they have actually announced that it's noro and how they made that decision.

 

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

might be worth reading

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/faq/faq.htm

 

Of course they do stool samples  that is the way to tell if it is NORO or not

Trouble is most people do not report to the medical centre  until they are severely dehydrated  which leads to other medical issues/complications in older adults

There was no way our samples could have been tested during the outbreak. The ship was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.  "Diagnosis" on board is based on symptoms, which at a minimum requires a proper history, something that was not done.

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, LHT28 said:

I  believe that is the case  they do send them to an outside lab  but  having the specimens can confirm  that is was/is NORO or something else

Yes, well the cruise was long over when that would have happened. The ship was not under CDC jurisdiction during the cruise because it called on no US ports, so there is no record of the GI outbreak on the CDC website.

[clo]

3 hours ago, ClubSandwich said:

Unacceptable

This was part of my first post. Announcements. You're not children. You should have been informed every step of the way.  IMnverHO..

[pinotlover]

Actually the test to determine Noro is fairly simple and more than likely the equipment for the test is indeed aboard ship. This is especially the case because this bug is far to common on cruise ships.

 

The cruise line’s are not going to report Noro to the authorities unless they know for sure that’s the case. The ships can test for it from the stool samples aboard ship fairly quickly.

Edited November 20, 2019 by pinotlover

[clo]

27 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Actually the test to determine Noro is fairly simple and more than likely the equipment for the test is indeed aboard ship. This is especially the case because this bug is far to common on cruise ships.

 

You may know more about this than I do, especially currently.  My lab background is quite old but I did find this:  https://labtestsonline.org/conditions/norovirus Perhaps there are kits that a ship stocks for testing.  Again my background could be totally out of date.

[LHT28]

maybe the medical centres have this test kit ??

https://clinical.r-biopharm.com/news/new-rapid-test-format-of-ridaquick-norovirus-avaiable/

[Queen of DaNile]

FWIW this was received yesterday regarding the next step for the 11/23/2019 cruise:

 

Delayed Embarkation Advisory

Dear Valued Guests and Travel Advisors:

 

We want to inform you that during the previous voyage, some of our guests exhibited symptoms of gastroenteritis. In addition to our standard practice of emphasizing proper hand washing hygiene and maintaining a clean environment throughout the ship, the vessel immediately implemented an enhanced sanitation protocol to safeguard the well-being of our guests and crew.  As an added precaution, the vessel will undergo an enhanced sanitation protocol prior to your embarkation in Barcelona, Spain. 

 

Due to this extensive process, we anticipate that embarkation for Owner’s, Vista and Oceania suite guests with priority embarkation will commence at approximately 1:00PM; followed by Penthouses at 2:00PM; followed by general boarding at 3:00PM for all other categories.

 

We thank you for your understanding and patience with this necessary extra precaution.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Carlos Ortega

Vice President, Passenger Services

Oceania Cruises

[clo]

36 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

maybe the medical centres have this test kit ??

https://clinical.r-biopharm.com/news/new-rapid-test-format-of-ridaquick-norovirus-avaiable/

Thank you so much for this.  As I've implied I have some background in clinical laboratory testing and this DOES look like something that ships likely have on hand.  So they can make a diagnosis quickly, onsite, and move (oops!) accordingly.

[clo]

6 minutes ago, Queen of DaNile said:

FWIW this was received yesterday regarding the next step for the 11/23/2019 cruise:

 

Thanks for sharing this. This is certainly the ship that we'll be taking from Rio to Buenos Aires so, fingers crossed, hopefully no more delays - at least nothing beyond what they're doing here.

[wcc19]

All restaurants are definitely open. The only difference is the table settings that I mentioned earlier. 

They are doing some things better than our last noro cruise experience. For example they did not take away the snacks at baristas and the concierge lounge. They have a crew member there handing them out. I just got a sandwich in the concierge lounge and I can assure you that this crew member is not enjoying having to do that job.

[LHT28]

45 minutes ago, wcc19 said:

All restaurants are definitely open. The only difference is the table settings that I mentioned earlier. 

They are doing some things better than our last noro cruise experience. For example they did not take away the snacks at baristas and the concierge lounge. They have a crew member there handing them out. I just got a sandwich in the concierge lounge and I can assure you that this crew member is not enjoying having to do that job.

Must be  an exciting  job for him/her to stand around waiting  serve the few that show up to the lounge  🙄

[pinotlover]

Besides the delayed boarding, a smart move would be to force all the B2Bers off the ship likewise and not allow them to reboard until the new arrivals do. This way the entire ship can be scrubbed down without guest spreading bugs while they’re trying to clean!

[LHT28]

2 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Besides the delayed boarding, a smart move would be to force all the B2Bers off the ship likewise and not allow them to reboard until the new arrivals do. This way the entire ship can be scrubbed down without guest spreading bugs while they’re trying to clean!

They will probably do that  so they can clean without people wandering the ship  in their way

I cannot imagine anyone wanting to stay onboard  while the deep cleaning is going on