NEED A FAIR REFUND POLICY DUE TO VIRUS

[samiam1]

6 minutes ago, Teach2618 said:

Here is wording from US terms of agreement. Would think they would have to offer refund?? Any lawyers to confirm?

11.9 Where CDP is the Cruise Organiser, and no matter the reason for cancellation, no compensation is due to the Traveller, who will be able to choose between the following solutions:

(i) A full refund of the Contract price; (ii) Another Service at the same price; (iii) A Service at a lower price and a refund for the price difference between the two Services based on the

  

 advertised prices. Travellers must inform CDP of their choice as soon as possible and in any event before the deadline mentioned in the cancellation documents.

 

It says you have your CHOICE if cancelled so a FULL REFUND is due, you could do a chargeback and get back most of your money if they refuse but I think it is clear here. But you can get no compensation for incidental losses - cancelled flights and hotel rooms etc. and any penalties.

[PONANT CRUISES]

Hello everyone,

 

Thank you very much for all your messages.

 

All PONANT teams in the world are currently fully committed to manage the events related to Covid-19. Priority is given to  addressing  each guest situation , on a case-by-case basis. All passengers are being personally contacted   Please be assured of the full involvement of PONANT in order to resolve as quickly  possible the situation we are currently experiencing.

 

Best regards,

 

The PONANT team.

[Teach2618]

20 minutes ago, samiam1 said:

 

It says you have your CHOICE if cancelled so a FULL REFUND is due, you could do a chargeback and get back most of your money if they refuse but I think it is clear here. But you can get no compensation for incidental losses - cancelled flights and hotel rooms etc. and any penalties.

That is how I interrupt it, thanks so much

 

[Seabiscuit68]

We responded to Ponant's notice of cancellation and requested a refund as prescribed by their own terms and conditions. We received email that ignored our request for refund and reiterated that they were offering a credit on a future cruise.    I think this will be the same for the Paul Gauguin cruises.   We should start thinking about a coordinated legal response as well as targeted social media posts. 

[samiam1]

26 minutes ago, Seabiscuit68 said:

We responded to Ponant's notice of cancellation and requested a refund as prescribed by their own terms and conditions. We received email that ignored our request for refund and reiterated that they were offering a credit on a future cruise.    I think this will be the same for the Paul Gauguin cruises.   We should start thinking about a coordinated legal response as well as targeted social media posts. 

 

If they cancelled, it seems the case is clear, they have to refund.

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by samiam1

[Seabiscuit68]

It seems clear to me too.  But not surprisingly Ponant are going to give us a hard time to get what we are legally and rightfully owed under the terms of the contract. 

[luxury-lizard]

I don't really want to weigh in too heavily on this credit vs refund issue (even though I'm in the same 'boat' as others)  - but my take at the moment is to wait - Ponant have changed their position on all aspects of handling this global crisis under pressure from many sources. So don't panic - wait and see - eveyone needs time to work through the issues. I would expect (as an optimist) that Ponant will change their current policy.

[Teach2618]

We too are hoping that Ponant will come to terms with what they need to do in the next few days but will be willing to do more if needed.

[samiam1]

FYI, if you are in the USA, this is where your money went; so I would assume Ponant will need to follow applicable consumer laws here, they may just not be aware of that yet:

 

[Nonads]

Will wait for Ponant’s response Due to sail next week . Time to step up Ponant 

[Ness71]

Latest notice for Australian passengers:

 

All our global teams are also mobilized in order to best manage the cancellation of future cruises, at least until April 19. You will be contacted personally by our employees who will offer you a Future Cruise Credit, valid over a period of 18 months to allow you to reschedule your cruise. 

 

Two days ago I feared I would lose my entire cruise fare, as well as all my other costs, so I will definitely accept a credit over the alternative I was facing. I just wish Ponant had called it sooner as it would have reduced some of the other losses. But I get it - they are a commercial enterprise trying to balance the needs of many, including crew.

 

Aussies are usually fairly relaxed about life, but we are seeing some extraordinary scenes, like normal people getting into supermarket brawls! We haven’t seen the worst of COVID-19 yet so stay calm and be kind to others. There are people a lot worse off than us. Stay well and thank you for your support over a very stressful weekend.

[Seabiscuit68]

Taking a closer look at Ponant's terms and conditions, it states that the contract is governed by French law.   Similar paragraph in Paul Gauguin terms and conditions, subject to French Polynesia laws.  

 

16. Applicable Law and Jurisdiction

16.1 This Contract is governed by French law.
16.2 Only courts within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Marseille, France, are competent to hear any case against CDP, its employees, subsidiaries, or subcontractors, even with the introduction of third parties.

[samiam1]

36 minutes ago, Seabiscuit68 said:

Taking a closer look at Ponant's terms and conditions, it states that the contract is governed by French law.   Similar paragraph in Paul Gauguin terms and conditions, subject to French Polynesia laws.  

 

16. Applicable Law and Jurisdiction

16.1 This Contract is governed by French law.
16.2 Only courts within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Marseille, France, are competent to hear any case against CDP, its employees, subsidiaries, or subcontractors, even with the introduction of third parties.

 

My payment went to Ponant USA LLC. (a Delaware corp.) in New York.  They are also registered as a Seller of Travel in California and Florida. If they cancel my cruise which seems like a certainty at this point, I expect a 100% refund per the terms of the contract.  French law may apply to the contract but jurisdiction may well be in the USA.  But let's hope they read their own contract and comply with the terms of refund which allows the passenger to choose a refund or a cruise credit in the event of cancellation.

[Host Jazzbeau]

9 minutes ago, samiam1 said:

 

My payment went to Ponant USA LLC. (a Delaware corp.) in New York.  They are also registered as a Seller of Travel in California and Florida. If they cancel my cruise which seems like a certainty at this point, I expect a 100% refund per the terms of the contract.  French law may apply to the contract but jurisdiction may well be in the USA.  But let's hope they read their own contract and comply with the terms of refund which allows the passenger to choose a refund or a cruise credit in the event of cancellation.

 

I agree.  Most other cruise lines have been improving the terms of their offers.  Ponant was offering FCC of 115% to those unable to sail because they have the virus.  Now that they have cancelled they aren't even offering that (and I checked – their prices for my same cruise next year have gone up by 115%).  I want my money back and let's say 'adieu.'

[Teach2618]

I too want the choice of a refund. There is no comparable cruise to Norway within the next year and a half. All other choices are more expensive. I am losing other costs but just want my money back for this cruise from Ponant. How can their legal department guide them to violate terms of agreement? Most other lines we used like Uniworld, Windstar, viking....very simply offered a refund or FCC of more than 100%. Not playing games and charging  their policies every few days. I will probably never consider this company again. 

[luxury-lizard]

I just received my 'offical' letter from Ponant re my cancelled cruises (was 2 back-to-backs) - in addition to a credit they offered 20% discount on a future cruise - even though next year's prices may look higher than last years - stay tuned. Clearly this additional 20% is "new" since the cancellation notice 24 hours ago - so conditions of credit may change again.

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 minutes ago, luxury-lizard said:

I just received my 'offical' letter from Ponant re my cancelled cruises (was 2 back-to-backs) - in addition to a credit they offered 20% discount on a future cruise - even though next year's prices may look higher than last years - stay tuned. Clearly this additional 20% is "new" since the cancellation notice 24 hours ago - so conditions of credit may change again.

 

Thanks for sharing.  I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the International Date Line in calculating time over there, but it appears that you are getting stuff 'before it gets sent from France' !!!

[luxury-lizard]

Perhaps this is because my cancelled cruise should have sailed tomorrow local time  - South Africa is in the same time-zone as Europe +/- an hour.  6:45am Monday here

[jonikal]

This was on Ponant FB:

https://wordpress.ponant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/WORRYFREE_PONANT_09032020_WEBSITE_EN-1.pdf

[samiam1]

1 hour ago, jonikal said:

This was on Ponant FB:

https://wordpress.ponant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/WORRYFREE_PONANT_09032020_WEBSITE_EN-1.pdf

 

Why are they concentrating on new bookings?  Are they running a Ponzi scheme?  They need to take care of existing bookings first and fulfill their contract which promises a refund.  No one should book with a line that violates its own terms and conditions on 100% refunds for cancelled cruises.  Ponant seems to be so arrogant, they think they can get away with this?

[samiam1]

8 hours ago, luxury-lizard said:

I just received my 'offical' letter from Ponant re my cancelled cruises (was 2 back-to-backs) - in addition to a credit they offered 20% discount on a future cruise - even though next year's prices may look higher than last years - stay tuned. Clearly this additional 20% is "new" since the cancellation notice 24 hours ago - so conditions of credit may change again.

 

You are owed a refund if your contract calls for a refund.  I think Ponant is trying to get passengers to waive their rights to a refund.

[Teach2618]

My agent just said that Ponant are contacting their legal Team to investigate the situation. Let’s hope we are interrupting things correctly. I am waiting optimistically.

[Roger88]

You are always offered insurance options when you buy the cruise. If you are not satisfied with the options availble noone is forcing you take a cruise. I mean, I would ask for a maximum cover insurance and just read what it offers before purchasing the cruise. usually its something like 75% refund in case of a cancelation or some OBC credit or a gift card noone cares about. But also be aware that there were many cases when the insurance did not cover the failure to get on board because of the V problem. Just double check this information with the agency or call their manager to clarify this information 

[Teach2618]

22 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

You are always offered insurance options when you buy the cruise. If you are not satisfied with the options availble noone is forcing you take a cruise. I mean, I would ask for a maximum cover insurance and just read what it offers before purchasing the cruise. usually its something like 75% refund in case of a cancelation or some OBC credit or a gift card noone cares about. But also be aware that there were many cases when the insurance did not cover the failure to get on board because of the V problem. Just double check this information with the agency or call their manager to clarify this information 

My cruise has been canceled by the company and I now would like a refund. Yes I have travel insurance but the virus is not a covered reason.

[samiam1]

29 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

You are always offered insurance options when you buy the cruise. If you are not satisfied with the options availble noone is forcing you take a cruise. I mean, I would ask for a maximum cover insurance and just read what it offers before purchasing the cruise. usually its something like 75% refund in case of a cancelation or some OBC credit or a gift card noone cares about. But also be aware that there were many cases when the insurance did not cover the failure to get on board because of the V problem. Just double check this information with the agency or call their manager to clarify this information 

 

Not an insurance issue, when a cruise line cancels, they owe a refund under the terms and conditions of passage.