Possible replacement for Canadian ports

[beachseasand]

   I hope that I am not taking the COVID-19 situation lightly, but could we be out of the woods by June 1st? We are/were sailing on the Jewel June 8th out of Vancouver. And I know it sounds selfish, but NCL could switch to Seattle and run buses for those who could not change flights from Vancouver to Seattle. It seems the port is empty on those days, and the company could mitigate their losses. I guess it all depends on how well the public practices social distancing. I feel terrible for those who are sick or worse, and I am wary about all of the sanitation measure put in place by the lines, but we planned this 18 months ago and there are 19 of us going. We more than likely will not be able to all get our schedules together again. Best wishes to all as we work our way through this.

[tallnthensome]

Cruises out of Seattle have to go to a foreign port like Vancouver or Victoria in order to not violate the Jones act. Unless Canada opens its ports or the government drops the Jones act you aren’t going anywhere. I’m on an August cruise to Alaska out of Seattle ....maybe ....maybe ....

Edited March 14, 2020 by tallnthensome

[puppycanducruise]

It's the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA), not the Jones Act.

(sorry don't mean to be pedantic, just accurate)🙂

[ColeThornton]

21 minutes ago, beachseasand said:

   I hope that I am not taking the COVID-19 situation lightly, but could we be out of the woods by June 1st?

 

 

I think you already know the answer to that.  Not a single one of us know, especially considering that's not too far from now.  I hope everything works out for you though (and everyone else).  Plan for worst case and if things go well....BONUS!

[SouthLyonCruiser]

15 minutes ago, puppycanducruise said:

It's the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA), not the Jones Act.

(sorry don't mean to be pedantic, just accurate)🙂

Another moronic law that should be repealed. Having to stop in a port for four hours that no one wants to go to is moronic. If that law was repealed U.S. ports would enjoy more people spending more money in the U.S..

[sr71_1]

41 minutes ago, beachseasand said:

...we planned this 18 months ago and there are 19 of us going. We more than likely will not be able to all get our schedules together again. Best wishes to all as we work our way through this.

 

We're on the Jewel - June 1 from Seward to Vancouver.  Same story ... planned 16 months ago... a group of us.   With Canadian ports closing until July 1,  I'm expecting all the Alaska cruises (due to PVSA ) to be cancelled until July 1.   I'm totally bummed about this ...the only good news is that if NCL cancels they will have to offer a full refund.  Our plan is to rebook for same time next year.         

[chobo2]

 

1 hour ago, beachseasand said:

   I hope that I am not taking the COVID-19 situation lightly, but could we be out of the woods by June 1st? We are/were sailing on the Jewel June 8th out of Vancouver. And I know it sounds selfish, but NCL could switch to Seattle and run buses for those who could not change flights from Vancouver to Seattle. It seems the port is empty on those days, and the company could mitigate their losses. I guess it all depends on how well the public practices social distancing. I feel terrible for those who are sick or worse, and I am wary about all of the sanitation measure put in place by the lines, but we planned this 18 months ago and there are 19 of us going. We more than likely will not be able to all get our schedules together again. Best wishes to all as we work our way through this.

 

Well I don't know where you live, but I imagine more and more places will have the similar policy, but here is Vancouver they now want anyone who comes from anywhere including the US to self isolate for 14 days.

 

I live near the border, if I would just hop the border for 5 mins and come back the government would want me to self isolate for 14 days.

 

Right now this is not forced but knowing how Canadian Government is so scared to be called racist (even though it would not be) or something, I don't see them making it law anytime soon but I could see the US making something like the mandatory. 

 

I sadly think all cruises need to now be cancelled for the foreseeable future, trust me I was looking very much forward to my cruise in hawaii as it was to be our honeymoon, now our plans are in total disarray like you and now I am thinking we may never go to hawaii or have our honeymoon as it is so hard for my wife to get vacation off at work. 

 

40 minutes ago, sr71_1 said:

 

We're on the Jewel - June 1 from Seward to Vancouver.  Same story ... planned 16 months ago... a group of us.   With Canadian ports closing until July 1,  I'm expecting all the Alaska cruises (due to PVSA ) to be cancelled until July 1.   I'm totally bummed about this ...the only good news is that if NCL cancels they will have to offer a full refund.  Our plan is to rebook for same time next year.         

 

I was to go on the Jewel as well but at the end of April and it would have gone from Hawaii to Vancouver, now that is no longer possible I was wondering what  will happen now, will they try to change the disembarkation port what would suck for me as I live in Vancouver or will they cancel it.

 

I am hoping now they will cancel it and give me a cash refund, that would only leave my flight to Hawaii up in the air as what I would get (hoping again a cash refund).

 

 

[dgparent]

2 hours ago, beachseasand said:

   I hope that I am not taking the COVID-19 situation lightly, but could we be out of the woods by June 1st? We are/were sailing on the Jewel June 8th out of Vancouver. And I know it sounds selfish, but NCL could switch to Seattle and run buses for those who could not change flights from Vancouver to Seattle. It seems the port is empty on those days, and the company could mitigate their losses. I guess it all depends on how well the public practices social distancing. I feel terrible for those who are sick or worse, and I am wary about all of the sanitation measure put in place by the lines, but we planned this 18 months ago and there are 19 of us going. We more than likely will not be able to all get our schedules together again. Best wishes to all as we work our way through this.

 

Ya because like nothing is happening in Seattle right now with regard to COVID-19

[Ms BumbleBee]

2 minutes ago, dgparent said:

 

Ya because like nothing is happening in Seattle right now with regard to COVID-19

 

This is why I wish they would address Alaska cruises Pre July.  I am waiting to see if they will cancel vs the FCC because frankly I am not sure I want to try a cruise again for a while.  Last year we were cancelled for Cuba now this issue.  I prefer to just get my money back at this point but no one is saying what will happen to Alaska.

 

My assumption is that ALL of the cruise lines are in the same boat so maybe they are working on getting the law suspended.

[chobo2]

40 minutes ago, Ms BumbleBee said:

 

This is why I wish they would address Alaska cruises Pre July.  I am waiting to see if they will cancel vs the FCC because frankly I am not sure I want to try a cruise again for a while.  Last year we were cancelled for Cuba now this issue.  I prefer to just get my money back at this point but no one is saying what will happen to Alaska.

 

My assumption is that ALL of the cruise lines are in the same boat so maybe they are working on getting the law suspended.

 

The law came from the very top (the Canadian prime minister), I highly doubt he is going to reverse it or he would face so much backlash (all levels of governments and groups have been asking him to suspend cruise ships for days now). Even if the virus would go away next week, I am sure they will keep this policy in place for a period after the all clear is given to be on the safe side.

 

The cruise ships should be moving forward with the idea that for the next few months sailing should be cancelled, even if these bans were lift I am sure a big % of people still would not want to sail.

 

Even before all these bans came out friends and family were asking me if I was going to cancel my cruise as they would not get stuck on the ship confined for 2 weeks in their quarters (this is peoples biggest fear) and that fear will not go away for some time so I would imagine most people will want to make sure this virus is dead for good before setting foot on a ship.

[Mightyjoey1]

2 hours ago, SouthLyonCruiser said:

Another moronic law that should be repealed. Having to stop in a port for four hours that no one wants to go to is moronic. If that law was repealed U.S. ports would enjoy more people spending more money in the U.S..

Umm...err...no, it is meant to protect American shipyard workers and crew.  Repeal that law, and you will find freighters undercutting unions and wage protections here in the states.  Yeah, it sucks to have cruises cancelled; why Canada can't allow access to an island off-shore that can be accessed by tender (technically) is more the possible answer than undercutting American workers.

 

[beachseasand]

Thank you all for the information. I did forget how bad things are in Seattle, sorry. I guess I am hopeful that we can get everyone to do the right thing and we can beat this virus. China "seems" to have greatly reduced new cases. I guess we will have to wait and see. Best of luck to all.

[YVRBassElectric]

7 minutes ago, Mightyjoey1 said:

Yeah, it sucks to have cruises cancelled; why Canada can't allow access to an island off-shore that can be accessed by tender (technically) is more the possible answer than undercutting American workers.

 

 

I assume you mean Victoria, BC - this is on Vancouver Island and is the seat of our Provincial Government. We can't risk crippling our government or local Hospitals.

 

Italy went from 1 official case Mid February to Lock down Mid March and there hospitals are having to decide who gets care and who get to die.

USA is in for a rough time.

I hope our biggest concern is a cancelled cruise soon (I am supposed to be on the Joy docking in Vancouver on April 25)

[Mightyjoey1]

3 minutes ago, YVRBassElectric said:

 

I assume you mean Victoria, BC - this is on Vancouver Island and is the seat of our Provincial Government. We can't risk crippling our government or local Hospitals.

 

Italy went from 1 official case Mid February to Lock down Mid March and there hospitals are having to decide who gets care and who get to die.

USA is in for a rough time.

I hope our biggest concern is a cancelled cruise soon (I am supposed to be on the Joy docking in Vancouver on April 25)

 

No, not Victoria...if I had meant Victoria I would have said Victoria.  I'm saying a small island that is uninhabited (I'm sure there are a few between Seattle and Alaska) that you can run a tender to, say you did it, and then leave.  Yep, a technicality to be sure, but whose going to object at this point.  Again, it makes way too much sense, so it won't happen, but don't overturn century-old labor protections just to preserve vacations for a couple months.

[YVRBassElectric]

2 minutes ago, Mightyjoey1 said:

 

No, not Victoria...if I had meant Victoria I would have said Victoria.  I'm saying a small island that is uninhabited (I'm sure there are a few between Seattle and Alaska) that you can run a tender to, say you did it, and then leave.  Yep, a technicality to be sure, but whose going to object at this point.  Again, it makes way too much sense, so it won't happen, but don't overturn century-old labor protections just to preserve vacations for a couple months.

Needs to have customs officials or the ship hasn't entered Canada. If Alaska wants to take the risk, hopefully US can adjust their laws, Canada won't be letting ships in before July 1 - our Public Health officials are powerful & respected

[Mightyjoey1]

1 minute ago, YVRBassElectric said:

Needs to have customs officials or the ship hasn't entered Canada. If Alaska wants to take the risk, hopefully US can adjust their laws, Canada won't be letting ships in before July 1 - our Public Health officials are powerful & respected

Didn't take into account customs...good and valid point.  Just don't want to see either Public Health or Labor laws violated for the sake of a vacation

[Newleno]

46 minutes ago, Mightyjoey1 said:

Umm...err...no, it is meant to protect American shipyard workers and crew.  Repeal that law, and you will find freighters undercutting unions and wage protections here in the states.  Yeah, it sucks to have cruises cancelled; why Canada can't allow access to an island off-shore that can be accessed by tender (technically) is more the possible answer than undercutting American workers.

 

You mean like the cruise ships do?  You dont have to repeal every aspect of the Law,  just improve the current law.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Newleno

[ziggyuk]

4 hours ago, beachseasand said:

I guess it all depends on how well the public practices social distancing.

 

For a hope to travel in June you actually need the opposite of this, which is not something most people want.

 

The sensible thing is to practice social distancing and slow infection, this spreads out the period of infection and allows medical services to cope better and deal with the situation. Unfortunately the the downside to this is the time it takes for the population to become infected and recover (with immunity) is prolonged, once public immunity increases transmission decreases.

 

If people become infected faster the population recover with immunity quicker and the rate of transmission decreases, services like cruise lines then return to normal quicker ...... but the quicker the transmission rate the harder public services will work to cope.

 

The ideal situation is you spread the transmission period over as many months as possible allowing the critically sick to be treated better.

Edited March 14, 2020 by ziggyuk

[bonvoyagie]

Right now BC and Alberta have the highest known cases of COVD-19 in all of Canada. Just as Wash lead the US for awhile. There is lots of traffic over the boarder between the two which probably lead to that. 

 

As far as the PVSA and Jones Act go one could be temporarily suspended the PVSA until all of this is over (ie the Grand Princess did not visit a Mexican Port on its way back from Hawaii).  So if the ports of Seattle or San Francisco and Seward and Whittier all agreed to allow cruise ships in their harbors - not to mention Juneau, Ketchikan, and  Skagway et al. we could have an AK cruise season. 

 

Another solution would be to use Prince Rupert as the Canadian port stop. It is a cargo port and had C&I agents.

 

It is also possible that as quick as the virus came it will also go and the governments will lift restrictions early. 

 

It is all a huge crap shoot.

[Ms BumbleBee]

2 hours ago, chobo2 said:

 

The law came from the very top (the Canadian prime minister), I highly doubt he is going to reverse it or he would face so much backlash (all levels of governments and groups have been asking him to suspend cruise ships for days now). Even if the virus would go away next week, I am sure they will keep this policy in place for a period after the all clear is given to be on the safe side.

 

The cruise ships should be moving forward with the idea that for the next few months sailing should be cancelled, even if these bans were lift I am sure a big % of people still would not want to sail.

 

Even before all these bans came out friends and family were asking me if I was going to cancel my cruise as they would not get stuck on the ship confined for 2 weeks in their quarters (this is peoples biggest fear) and that fear will not go away for some time so I would imagine most people will want to make sure this virus is dead for good before setting foot on a ship.

 

I meant the US law requiring a foreign stop not Canada changing their mind 🙂

[YVRBassElectric]

15 minutes ago, bonvoyagie said:

Right now BC and Alberta have the highest known cases of COVD-19 in all of Canada. Just as Wash lead the US for awhile. There is lots of traffic over the boarder between the two which probably lead to that. 

 

As far as the PVSA and Jones Act go one could be temporarily suspended the PVSA until all of this is over (ie the Grand Princess did not visit a Mexican Port on its way back from Hawaii).  So if the ports of Seattle or San Francisco and Seward and Whittier all agreed to allow cruise ships in their harbors - not to mention Juneau, Ketchikan, and  Skagway et al. we could have an AK cruise season. 

 

Another solution would be to use Prince Rupert as the Canadian port stop. It is a cargo port and had C&I agents.

 

It is also possible that as quick as the virus came it will also go and the governments will lift restrictions early. 

 

It is all a huge crap shoot.

No Canadian Port is available until July 1 - NOT one

 

currently most cases are in BC & Ontario but Quebec had spring break, so their numbers are climbing. The rest of the country was told not to travel before Spring break started - we will see in 2 - 3 weeks if that worked

[beachseasand]

Thank you ziggyuk for bringing up a very valid point. I have seen the infection curves to which you refer, and I see your point. However if we overload the health care system, then some might not get the care they need to survive. A difficult choice. big and fast, or small and slow. Which way will it play out? I guess we shall see. Thanks all for your input, very insightful.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Newleno said:

You mean like the cruise ships do?  You dont have to repeal every aspect of the Law,  just improve the current law.

Tell me how you "improve" the law while protecting the tens of thousands of jobs on PVSA compliant vessels, and the billions of dollars generated by those PVSA compliant vessels.  What PVSA compliant vessels, you ask?  Well, every ferry, commuter boat, water taxi, whale watching, casino, dinner cruise, and larger sport fishing vessel in the US is PVSA compliant, as are a couple of small cruise lines and riverboat companies.  How do these compare with cruise ships, you ask?  Because under international law, a "passenger vessel" (remember PVSA starts with "P for Passenger" not 'C for Cruise") is any vessel that carries more than 12 people for hire.  Until you can get all the nations of the IMO to agree that cruise ships should be a separate category of vessel, then any attempt by the US to allow some passenger vessels to be non-PVSA compliant, and mandate that some remain PVSA compliant, will end up being tossed out by the courts as discriminatory.

 

Besides, now there is coronavirus in 49 of the 50 states (possible to cruise to West Virginia?), so even without a Canadian port, you risk bringing on people who might be infected.

Edited March 14, 2020 by chengkp75

[Newleno]

26 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Tell me how you "improve" the law while protecting the tens of thousands of jobs on PVSA compliant vessels, and the billions of dollars generated by those PVSA compliant vessels.  What PVSA compliant vessels, you ask?  Well, every ferry, commuter boat, water taxi, whale watching, casino, dinner cruise, and larger sport fishing vessel in the US is PVSA compliant, as are a couple of small cruise lines and riverboat companies.  How do these compare with cruise ships, you ask?  Because under international law, a "passenger vessel" (remember PVSA starts with "P for Passenger" not 'C for Cruise") is any vessel that carries more than 12 people for hire.  Until you can get all the nations of the IMO to agree that cruise ships should be a separate category of vessel, then any attempt by the US to allow some passenger vessels to be non-PVSA compliant, and mandate that some remain PVSA compliant, will end up being tossed out by the courts as discriminatory.

 

Besides, now there is coronavirus in 49 of the 50 states (possible to cruise to West Virginia?), so even without a Canadian port, you risk bringing on people who might be infected.

oh sure glad you asked one easy way to improve the situation "law" is if after the 30 day period of "voluntold" no cruising the government believes they will once again allow cruising but yet Canada still sais no until July, well then we let cruiseships set sail without using canada ports.  Easy Peasy Quick Easy = EPQE

 

We just cant afford red type gobel gook,  (aka head of CDC always did it this way, always will be this way attitude , regarding the testing situation  for corona.  Robert Ray Redfield Jr. is an American virologist. He is the current Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)  Some things needs to be changed and improved over time, what worked 40 years ago sometimes does not work now, sometimes it does, things need to be updated, changed etc...

Edited March 14, 2020 by Newleno

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, Newleno said:

oh sure glad you asked one easy way to improve the situation "law" is if after the 30 day period of "voluntold" no cruising the government believes they will once again allow cruising but yet Canada still sais no until July, well then we let cruiseships set sail without using canada ports.  Easy Peasy Quick Easy = EPQE

 

We just cant afford red type gobel gook,  (aka head of CDC always did it this way, always will be this way attitude , regarding the testing situation  for corona.  Robert Ray Redfield Jr. is an American virologist. He is the current Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)  Some things needs to be changed and improved over time, what worked 40 years ago sometimes does not work now, sometimes it does, things need to be updated, changed etc...

And so, when this happens, and the Alaska Marine Highway, that is currently in fiscal trouble, sues to be allowed to flag their ships in Panama, you are okay with allowing these ships to hire foreign crew, and not meet USCG requirements?  I'm not.