Ruby Princess arrival yesterday IMPORTANT

[Pushka]

7 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I don't think it is relevant now to try to track where the COVID infection on the Ruby came from. I posted details about it to show how ridiculous the Police Commissioner's claims are that it came from a kitchen hand/waiter on the ship.

 

People could not have caught it in the subway in Australia before the cruise because there were only literally a few cases. Our first cases were some Chinese tourists from Wuhan who were diagnosed and quarantined near the end of January. On 4th February, Australia closed its borders to people coming from China. Up until 8th March when the Ruby Princess sailed, there were only a handful of cases in Australia, all from overseas who were diagnosed and hospitalized, usually for 14 days. One was my daughter-in-law's sister who returned from France. With each and every case, the authorities track their contacts and these people are also quarantined.

And many who became infected were local Sydney siders so did not fly to the cruise. As you say, the instances of Covid at the time the cruise set sail were tracked back to arrivals from overseas - viz China, Iran, and Europe. And hospitalised. Flights going out from Australia would not have started the Ruby Princess issue - highly likely to have been brought in from UK, US or Canada. The facts are that the virus spread on the ship. From someone who wasn't aware when they boarded or, worse, hid their symptoms. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Pushka

[Roberto256]

39 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

BTW, I don't blame you for saying that "it was highly likely that it was a waiter" because that is what you read.

 

I didn't say I believed it, I simply said that was what I read.

 

It would seem to me that to have any validity, this investigation should be conducted by an infectious disease expert,

not the police.

 

I assume, at the moment, they are all busy!

 

[Roberto256]

A colleague needs to give me a few dollars for something I bought for them.

This made me curious ... does microwaving kill coronavirus, and can I microwave currency?

This will have to remain unanswered, but I did find:

 

"Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread from person to person through respiratory droplets. Currently, there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. "

 

This would seem to make the waiter/galley worker supposition even more suspect.

 

This is the FAQ from the cdc.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

 

Just as an aside, I don't think I can microwave coins to kill coronavirus...

 

[Pushka]

7 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

A colleague needs to give me a few dollars for something I bought for them.

This made me curious ... does microwaving kill coronavirus, and can I microwave currency?

This will have to remain unanswered, but I did find:

 

"Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread from person to person through respiratory droplets. Currently, there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. "

 

This would seem to make the waiter/galley worker supposition even more suspect.

 

This is the FAQ from the cdc.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

 

Just as an aside, I don't think I can microwave coins to kill coronavirus...

 

Eating the food isn't the issue. It is touching the plate that others have touched. 

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

Eating the food isn't the issue. It is touching the plate that others have touched. 

When a waiter puts down my plate of food, I don't usually touch the plate - usually it is hot anyway. When I have finished my meal, I put my knife and fork on the plate and the waiter removes it.

 

But, let's say I did touch an area of my plate that had COVID virus on it from an infected person sneezing on it. As the virus cannot enter through the skin, I would have to put my fingers (carrying the virus) in my mouth or nose for the active virus to enter my body. Who does that at the dinner table?😁 Maybe young children might.

 

One expert report noted that every time the virus is transferred from one surface to another, it is degraded.

 

COVID is passed on by someone coughing or sneezing. From listening to the Police Commissioner's later version of his theory, I am trying to imagine a waiter walking all around the dining room sneezing on everyone. In our many dozens of cruises I have never seen a waiter coughing or sneezing in the dining room, but occasionally a waiter is absent with the explanation that he is sick. I am sure that a Head Waiter would immediately remove any waiter who was coughing or sneezing. 

 

I cannot see that the 'kitchen staff or waiter' theory stands up to scrutiny.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

55 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

When a waiter puts down my plate of food, I don't usually touch the plate - usually it is hot anyway. When I have finished my meal, I put my knife and fork on the plate and the waiter removes it.

 

But, let's say I did touch an area of my plate that had COVID virus on it from an infected person sneezing on it. As the virus cannot enter through the skin, I would have to put my fingers (carrying the virus) in my mouth or nose for the active virus to enter my body. Who does that at the dinner table?😁 Maybe young children might.

 

One expert report noted that every time the virus is transferred from one surface to another, it is degraded.

 

COVID is passed on by someone coughing or sneezing. From listening to the Police Commissioner's later version of his theory, I am trying to imagine a waiter walking all around the dining room sneezing on everyone. In our many dozens of cruises I have never seen a waiter coughing or sneezing in the dining room, but occasionally a waiter is absent with the explanation that he is sick. I am sure that a Head Waiter would immediately remove any waiter who was coughing or sneezing. 

 

I cannot see that the 'kitchen staff or waiter' theory stands up to scrutiny.

I agree. I don’t think it was crew. I was just commenting that if a transmission did occur it isn’t in the food (the microwave comment) but on a plate or utensil. Or a nearby cough. 

[npcl]

16 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

I didn't say I believed it, I simply said that was what I read.

 

It would seem to me that to have any validity, this investigation should be conducted by an infectious disease expert,

not the police.

 

I assume, at the moment, they are all busy!

 

Why would they need that?  What they are looking for is if there is any indication that the true status of illness on board was not communicated.  So to determine that I would check all of the records, potentially any communication between the ship and home office, and interview passengers and crew to see if any had reported illness that is reflected in the records.  A search for any inconsistencies.

[DiamondFour]

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

Why would they need that?  What they are looking for is if there is any indication that the true status of illness on board was not communicated.  So to determine that I would check all of the records, potentially any communication between the ship and home office, and interview passengers and crew to see if any had reported illness that is reflected in the records.  A search for any inconsistencies.

Princess did report the true number of sick passengers through the appropriate channels with the Australian government. That has already been established. Ruby Princess was not in a position to declare it had diagnosed cases of the virus originating from china as it did not have testing kits but it did list passengers with the symptoms of it.

 

The police already have all the relevant information that the ship has sent to authorities and still that was not enough to demonstrate that the ships crew did anything untoward or dishonest. Now they are trying to prolong the investigation by interviewing every single passenger over a period of 5 months so that the public forgets and they can sweep it under the carpet and cover up a government decision to allow it to dock.

 

The Ruby Princess did provide swab samples for testing of the virus that came from china and NSW Health was conducting those tests. Even still considering the fact that the NSW Health Department was testing for that virus the authorities still allowed the guests to disembark. The Ruby Princess did do testing for the virus from China during the voyage and had samples tested in Napier New Zealand which came back negative.

 

To the best of the ships knowledge they had no reason to believe that the virus from china was on the ship.

 

I dare say they wanted to know if it was on or not. That virus from china is deadly and if the ships Doctors or Captain had any inkling of a suspicion that the ship was infected and knowing it put even their own lives at risk they would have taken immediate precautions.

 

The only reason one would hide the extent of the virus on board if they knew it was there would be suicidal. There is no logical explanation as to why the ship would do that. To this date the police have found no evidence to incriminate the ship at all. So they are delaying it as long as they can to avoid investigation the NSW Health Department and putting their political bosses offside.

[npcl]

4 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

When a waiter puts down my plate of food, I don't usually touch the plate - usually it is hot anyway. When I have finished my meal, I put my knife and fork on the plate and the waiter removes it.

 

But, let's say I did touch an area of my plate that had COVID virus on it from an infected person sneezing on it. As the virus cannot enter through the skin, I would have to put my fingers (carrying the virus) in my mouth or nose for the active virus to enter my body. Who does that at the dinner table?😁 Maybe young children might.

 

One expert report noted that every time the virus is transferred from one surface to another, it is degraded.

 

COVID is passed on by someone coughing or sneezing. From listening to the Police Commissioner's later version of his theory, I am trying to imagine a waiter walking all around the dining room sneezing on everyone. In our many dozens of cruises I have never seen a waiter coughing or sneezing in the dining room, but occasionally a waiter is absent with the explanation that he is sick. I am sure that a Head Waiter would immediately remove any waiter who was coughing or sneezing. 

 

I cannot see that the 'kitchen staff or waiter' theory stands up to scrutiny.

Ever pick up a roll or a bread stick? And then eat it.

 

I am pretty certain that you pick up the silver ware that an infected waiter might have placed at the table and used it to eat.

[Aus Traveller]

38 minutes ago, npcl said:

Ever pick up a roll or a bread stick? And then eat it.

 

I am pretty certain that you pick up the silver ware that an infected waiter might have placed at the table and used it to eat.

If there is a Red Alert for Noro, we don't eat anything that we touch with our hands and that includes bread rolls. We would probably do the same if we were on a cruise now😁.

 

When the waiters set the table, or bring new silver ware, they pick up the items in the middle, not by the tongs of a fork, or the 'dish' of a spoon. If the silver ware has the virus on it, that would be transferred to my hands. It can only enter my body if I put my fingers in my mouth, nose or eyes. Fairly unlikely. We could always wipe down our silver ware with disinfectant wipes 🙂, but I'm not going on a cruise any time soon😁 so I don't have to bother.

[Roberto256]

3 hours ago, npcl said:

Why would they need that?  What they are looking for is if there is any indication that the true status of illness on board was not communicated. 

 

Then why are there the news reports about 'it was a waiter' that transmitted the virus...

...or 'it was a galley worker 'that transmitted the virus?

 

That sounds like a study of infections diseases.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Roberto256

[Aus Traveller]

55 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

 

Then why are there the news reports about 'it was a waiter' that transmitted the virus...

...or 'it was a galley worker 'that transmitted the virus?

 

That sounds like a study of infections diseases.

I am convinced that the idea that a waiter/galley worker took the virus aboard isn't logical. Some statistics:

Passengers - 2,547, around 700 positives - 27.7% After they went home no more pax contracted COVID.

Crew - 1056. Three weeks after the cruise, 66 tested positive - 6.25%. One week later, it was 128 people.

 

If a crew member took the virus on board, the virus would have 'exploded' through the crew, having in mind how closely they spend working and leisure hours live in confined quarters.

 

If the Police Commissioner's theory was correct it could have been proven within hours. Princess said they would co-operate fully. A quick check of the list of new crew on 8th March would have revealed if any worked in the galley or in a dining room. Then that person could have been tested to see if he/she was presently positive, or if there were COVID antibodies in the person's bloodstream indicating they had already had the virus. I can assure you that if this had been done we would have heard about it very loudly and at length.

 

Why is the Police Commissioner putting forward his 'theory' as a fact? it's simple. It is political. He is trying to divert attention from where it should be directed: NSW Health Department and the Australian Border Force who authorised the ship to dock and for passengers to disembark without waiting for tests for COVID.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Roberto256]

One of the news reports I watched said that Ruby Princess will leave by Sunday.

 

I couldn't tell if this was a factual statement, or an opinion.

 

Other ships have left Australia, and headed to Asia to re-patriate crew.

I think this would be a good move for crew on Ruby.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Roberto256 said:

One of the news reports I watched said that Ruby Princess will leave by Sunday.

I couldn't tell if this was a factual statement, or an opinion.

Other ships have left Australia, and headed to Asia to re-patriate crew.

I think this would be a good move for crew on Ruby.

This report was factual, not an opinion. The Police Commissioner said that he will order the ship to leave by Sunday, however I am surprised at how much authority he seems to be wielding.

 

A problem they have is the crew on board who have now contracted the virus. It has spread through the crew. After the passengers disembarked there weren't many cases: a week ago (3 weeks after the passengers disembarked) there were 46, early today it was reported as 128 and tonight it is reported as 149. If several of these people become very ill and the ship is at sea, the medical centre would probably not have the capacity to give all of them adequate care. I believe Australia owes the crew a duty of care and should not just order them to sail into an uncertain future.

[Aus Traveller]

I am rather embarrassed to post the link to this video because it shows how stupid the Australian media can be, and (pardon me) but also the NSW Police Commissioner. This 'explosive video' shows staff from the kitchen 'partying' with passengers after sickness broke out!!!

 

(This video was originally posted on the Aust and NZ Cruisers section of Cruise Critic.)

•  

 

How does the media come up with this garbage.

https://7news.com.au/

Video

Explosive footageRuby Princess rumbled: How staff partied with passengers AFTER sickness broke out on ship

 

Obviously the reporter (nor the Police Commissioner) has never been on a cruise and they don't realise that the Parade of the Baked Alaska is a normal event on the last night and no-one is partying up close and personal with anyone else.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

19 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

This report was factual, not an opinion. The Police Commissioner said that he will order the ship to leave by Sunday, however I am surprised at how much authority he seems to be wielding.

 

A problem they have is the crew on board who have now contracted the virus. It has spread through the crew. After the passengers disembarked there weren't many cases: a week ago (3 weeks after the passengers disembarked) there were 46, early today it was reported as 128 and tonight it is reported as 149. If several of these people become very ill and the ship is at sea, the medical centre would probably not have the capacity to give all of them adequate care. I believe Australia owes the crew a duty of care and should not just order them to sail into an uncertain future.

Given the ship has been there for what will be 4 weeks, those people who have tested positive for Covid within the last 10 days or so, and for whom it will turn significant, will have done so by now and repatriated to hospital so those left onboard, given they are continually checked, will likely proceed to full recovery without significant intervention. And the crew that are negative have been isolated. Interestingly I saw today that less than 3% of Covid infections in Australia overall required hospital intervention. . 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

Given the ship has been there for what will be 4 weeks, those people who have tested positive for Covid within the last 10 days or so, and for whom it will turn significant, will have done so by now and repatriated to hospital so those left onboard, given they are continually checked, will likely proceed to full recovery without significant intervention. And the crew that are negative have been isolated. Interestingly I saw today that less than 3% of Covid infections in Australia overall required hospital intervention. . 

You could be right that crew still on board won't need hospital treatment. I hope so anyway.🙂

[Pushka]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

You could be right that crew still on board won't need hospital treatment. I hope so anyway.🙂

I also heard tonight that their departure will be subject to further last minute medical checks. 🤞all will be good with the crew to get back to their homes. 

[Roberto256]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

I believe Australia owes the crew a duty of care and should not just order them to sail into an uncertain future.

 

That is very fair.

[Roberto256]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

This report was factual, not an opinion. The Police Commissioner said that he will order the ship to leave by Sunday, however I am surprised at how much authority he seems to be wielding.

 

Someone onboard messaged me that "they have been bunkering all day".

Which sounds like preperations to leave.

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

11 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

How does the media come up with this garbage.

https://7news.com.au/

Video

Explosive footageRuby Princess rumbled: How staff partied with passengers AFTER sickness broke out on ship

 

Obviously the reporter (nor the Police Commissioner) has never been on a cruise and they don't realise that the Parade of the Baked Alaska is a normal event on the last night and no-one is partying up close and personal with anyone else.

It's likely that passengers who are upset with Princess about the Ruby cruise (maybe because they contracted COVID) will be the ones to contact the Police to help with their inquiry. I have been concerned at how they will present their 'facts'. This video is an example of how something can be twisted. The photographer could have been the wife of the man photographed (Clive) who it is said, tested positive to COVID. She apparently gave the video to Channel 7 with the story that "galley staff were partying up close with passengers". Anyone who has cruised with Princess, knows that it isn't a party. The galley staff parade through the dining for about ten minutes while the passengers applaud to thank them. However, the video can give the impression that it was a party.

[Tedferg]

19 hours ago, npcl said:

Ever pick up a roll or a bread stick? And then eat it.

 

I am pretty certain that you pick up the silver ware that an infected waiter might have placed at the table and used it to eat.

I am just entering this thread, so sorry if this has been pointed out before. CDC state that it is a raspatory disease spread mostly through inhaled droplets. It cannot be contracted by eating food. I guess you are correct that the virus could be on silver ware, you would need to touch the virus and then touch nose, eyes.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Tedferg

[Aus Traveller]

2 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

I am just entering this thread, so sorry if this has been pointed out before. CDC state that it is a raspatory disease spread mostly through inhaled droplets. It cannot be contracted by eating food. I guess you are correct that the virus could be on silver ware, you would need to touch the virus and then touch nose, eyes, mouth.

Exactly. The virus is passed on through inhaled droplets from an infected person nearby who sneezes of coughs. Watching that TV report, I wonder if they are implying that the galley staff were sneezing on everyone as they paraded around the dining room!! The TV report (above) is just too silly for words.

[DiamondFour]

16 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

Then why are there the news reports about 'it was a waiter' that transmitted the virus...

...or 'it was a galley worker 'that transmitted the virus?

 

That sounds like a study of infections diseases.

 

 

That needs clarification. Our NSW police commissioner made a statement on television news conference that he suspects it was a crew member working in the galley that passed on the virus. He then further stated that he has no evidence to back this up and that it was just a line of enquiry.

 

It is clearly an attempt to blame Princess. You would think that a police commissioner at the very least would have had the professional experience and intelligence to seek out information if any crew member had transferred onto the ship since it arrived in Australian waters before the virus from china made it on the ship. He did not do this because he probably does not want the answer or it will not fit with his narrative to blame Princess. It is quite extraordinary for a man of his level and experience to do it. I will not be surprised if the lawyers high up at Carnival get a hold of this statement and use it against him. Something like this could signify the end of his policing career should a Royal Commission be launched in the future.

[bluesea321]

Many media sources, not just down under, place blame on the cruise industry.  Take a look at this Bloomberg BusinessWeek article.  Arnold Donald, the CEO of CCL, did not come across well.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/?srnd=businessweek-v2