P&O Cruisers - What are things like where YOU are?

[grapau27]

24 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry Graham, you've lost me. What sort of work do you suggest they retrain for, and whilst training , how do you suggest they pay their mortgage, feed the kids, etc? Given there will be hundreds of  thousands of people in the same position, where exactly are all these training courses going to appear. 

Jobcentre plus has lots of courses and pay outside organisations for courses too.

Universal credit is there to help people.

INDEED,Total  jobs,Jobatic,LinkedIn sites etc have lots of jobs.

At 50 a bus driver just needs to Google PSV driver vacancies,there are lots advertised up here.

People are being retrained as bus drivers up here so the 50 year old bus driver you quoted would have no problems getting another job.

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by grapau27

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

It may be necessary to support people, as is currently happening.  But I'm not sure it makes sense (I say not sure because there are no correct or incorrect answers to very much at the moment) to support dying industries when the money could be used to support growing industries.  Those new industries (and I use that term loosely) may not be where the present ones are, and the regions would very much welcome the new prospects and the new growth.

 

The north has lost out to the south for far too long.

I think we both agree that there will be a seismic change in working practices over the next 10 years, which will have far reaching consequences that many of us have not considered. ( For example , sheep farmers can not get a decent price for wool any more, as demand for carpets is down, due to lack of orders from offices, city centre hotels etc. Perhaps Andy can corroborate)

My concern is for the millions of people, who, through no fault of their own, find themselves out of work, with little possibility of gainful employment in the short to mid term.

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Jobcentre plus has lots of courses and pay outside organisations for courses too.

Universal credit is there to help people.

INDEED,Total  jobs,Jobatic,LinkedIn sites etc have lots of jobs.

At 50 a bus driver just needs to Google PSV driver vacancies,there are lots advertised up here

 

But how does he sell his house in a time of mass unemployment,  to move up North?

 I hope there are at least 10,000 bus drivers needed! 

But, the key question is - what jobs should he retrain for, given that no one in the local area will be able to afford to employ gardeners, builders etc.

And lets not talk about the shambles that is universal credit. It won't pay his mortgage for how ever many years it takes to find a job.

[kalos]

4 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Jobcentre plus has lots of courses and pay outside organisations for courses too.

Universal credit is there to help people.

INDEED,Total  jobs,Jobatic,LinkedIn sites etc have lots of jobs.

At 50 a bus driver just needs to Google PSV driver vacancies.

 

As you mentioned Graham a lot of areas lost out with pit closures around the UK.

People spent a lot of time re-inventing themselves and creating new jobs and skills.

This was not done overnight and the same will not happen with covid job losses.

It goes without saying they will need help to get there just like the coalfield areas were 

given . The same assistance is still available and is giving help through a covid scheme

they have set up. https://www.coalfields-regen.org.uk/england/covid19-ccip-funding-support/

I hope more help comes from elsewhere for others that need it .

As posted no easy answers and this is not going to be easy but with the right support

people will get through this.

[grapau27]

9 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But how does he sell his house in a time of mass unemployment,  to move up North?

 I hope there are at least 10,000 bus drivers needed! 

But, the key question is - what jobs should he retrain for, given that no one in the local area will be able to afford to employ gardeners, builders etc.

And lets not talk about the shambles that is universal credit. It won't pay his mortgage for how ever many years it takes to find a job.

There are currently 37 bus driver vacancies in Leyton and London has 100 bus driver vacancies total so he would not have to move.

Bus drivers are in demand everywhere.

Pension age is 67 so at 50 as well as everyone else he has to do whatever job they can get to feed and house themselves and families while Universal Credit will help until they find a job or retraining on a course 

[AndyMichelle]

17 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think we both agree that there will be a seismic change in working practices over the next 10 years, which will have far reaching consequences that many of us have not considered. ( For example , sheep farmers can not get a decent price for wool any more, as demand for carpets is down, due to lack of orders from offices, city centre hotels etc. Perhaps Andy can corroborate)

My concern is for the millions of people, who, through no fault of their own, find themselves out of work, with little possibility of gainful employment in the short to mid term.

Times will be tough for a while for many. 

Sheep farmers have been getting a dire rate for years, so when production stops, you can't stop shearing the sheep, so inevitable there will be surplus fleece. 

On the other side, we cannot buy underlay as it is recycled largely from the bedding industry, which also ground to a halt. 

Business is coming in thick and fast, so it shouldn't take too long for the economy to recover in many industries but, sadly not all. 

Andy 

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, kalos said:

As you mentioned Graham a lot of areas lost out with pit closures around the UK.

People spent a lot of time re-inventing themselves and creating new jobs and skills.

This was not done overnight and the same will not happen with covid job losses.

It goes without saying they will need help to get there just like the coalfield areas were 

given . The same assistance is still available and is giving help through a covid scheme

they have set up. https://www.coalfields-regen.org.uk/england/covid19-ccip-funding-support/

I hope more help comes from elsewhere for others that need it .

As posted no easy answers and this is not going to be easy but with the right support

people will get through this.

Exactly Kalos.

My dad and brother worked in the shipyards and my brother graduated to be a school teacher after  the shipyards closed.

 

[grapau27]

10 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Times will be tough for a while for many. 

Sheep farmers have been getting a dire rate for years, so when production stops, you can't stop shearing the sheep, so inevitable there will be surplus fleece. 

On the other side, we cannot buy underlay as it is recycled largely from the bedding industry, which also ground to a halt. 

Business is coming in thick and fast, so it shouldn't take too long for the economy to recover in many industries but, sadly not all. 

Andy 

I'm delighted that your business is doing well Andy.

Graham.

[wowzz]

14 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

There are currently 37 bus driver vacancies in Leyton and London has 100 bus driver vacancies total so he would not have to move.

Bus drivers are in demand everywhere.

Pension age is 67 so at 50 as well as everyone else he has to do whatever job they can get to feed and house themselves and families while Universal Credit will help until they find a job or retraining on a course 

Not disputing that at all. But as demand falls, so will employment. No body working in city centre offices,  so no need for buses to take in all the ancillary support workers.

I know I am being seriously pessimistic,  even for me, but the scale of unemployment that we will see in this country,  especially when furlough ends, will be catastrophic. 

I'm obviously aware of how places like the North East, Corby, South Wales etc rejuvenated themselves in the past, but this time round we have a national rather than regional crisis, and all the normal re-training and local regeneration schemes will be insufficient. As I said before, much of this pending crisis could be avoided if the government took decisive action now.

[grapau27]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Not disputing that at all. But as demand falls, so will employment. No body working in city centre offices,  so no need for buses to take in all the ancillary support workers.

I know I am being seriously pessimistic,  even for me, but the scale of unemployment that we will see in this country,  especially when furlough ends, will be catastrophic. 

I'm obviously aware of how places like the North East, Corby, South Wales etc rejuvenated themselves in the past, but this time round we have a national rather than regional crisis, and all the normal re-training and local regeneration schemes will be insufficient. As I said before, much of this pending crisis could be avoided if the government took decisive action now.

I agree we are in a crisis.

I know people who are scared to get on local transport to get to their offices and a lot of offices have not been able to make the office safe for everyone to go back to work.

What decisive action do you propose the government should take?.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

It may be necessary to support people, as is currently happening.  But I'm not sure it makes sense (I say not sure because there are no correct or incorrect answers to very much at the moment) to support dying industries when the money could be used to support growing industries.  Those new industries (and I use that term loosely) may not be where the present ones are, and the regions would very much welcome the new prospects and the new growth.

 

The north has lost out to the south for far too long.

OK Harry, are you going to be the one that tells the London based office worker currently wfh that his job has been transferred to someone in the North?

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

OK Harry, are you going to be the one that tells the London based office worker currently wfh that his job has been transferred to someone in the North?

Cast your mind back, John. I don’t remember a great deal of sympathy for the thousands of mineworkers in the north who lost their jobs in the 1980s  - no transfers offered. And any number of mining villages destroyed as a result.

 

Changing times, I’m afraid. We may need to support the people, but trying to prop up a failing economic structure might not be possible, or even wise.

[AndyMichelle]

We have had tough times before... 

Tommy used to work on the Docks, Union went on strike, he's down on his luck, so tough.. 😊

 

Seriously though, we need to support anyone we see struggling, even if it's just a kind word or moral support. 

Andy 

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, AndyMichelle said:

We have had tough times before... 

Tommy used to work on the Docks, Union went on strike, he's down on his luck, so tough.. 😊

 

Seriously though, we need to support anyone we see struggling, even if it's just a kind word or moral support. 

Andy 

I do hope that Rishi's money tree continues to bear fruit, otherwise I dread to think what the rate of income tax on the few earners left might become.

[kalos]

7 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Cast your mind back, John. I don’t remember a great deal of sympathy for the thousands of mineworkers in the north who lost their jobs in the 1980s  - no transfers offered. And any number of mining villages destroyed as a result.

 

Changing times, I’m afraid. We may need to support the people, but trying to prop up a failing economic structure might not be possible, or even wise.

 

Some firms were looking at moving north well before covid.  BBC to Manchester..CH4 to Leeds.

Siemens moved to Manchester area as HQ but kept their place down south.

Some need to operate from London but I think with the cost of covid  ie loss of custom , they will

be looking at ways to save and survive .So will take a good hard look  at relocation anyway to the north.

Some will be having to ask can we afford London with it's land and wage costs for example ?

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, kalos said:

 

Some firms were looking at moving north well before covid.  BBC to Manchester..CH4 to Leeds.

Siemens moved to Manchester area as HQ but kept their place down south.

Some need to operate from London but I think with the cost of covid  ie loss of custom , they will

be looking at ways to save and survive .So will take a good hard look  at relocation anyway to the north.

Some will be having to ask can we afford London with it's land and wage costs for example ?

But some jobs just cannot be moved. Look, for example at Gatwick. Thousands of jobs lost - everyone from catering staff, to security staff to baggage handlers. Crawley and the surrounding area will be devastated. In due course the jobs will hopefully reappear, but there will  be a lot of misery in the meantime. 

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, kalos said:

 

 

Siemens moved to Manchester area as HQ but kept their place down south.

 

I used to deal with Siemens, they had offices where Avril's Nan lived. 

I used to chuckle every time they answered the phone with the cheery greeting  'Siemens Staines'... 😊

Andy 

[wowzz]

49 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

What decisive action do you propose the government should take?.

A few things spring to mind

1. Give commuters 50% refund on season tickets or travel costs 

2. Suspend all NI contributions from both employers and employees for any person who returns to the office.

3. Give all returning workers a £10,000 tax break for two years

4. Allow office based workers to reclaim lunch expenditure up to a maximum of £20 per week.

I'm sure we can all think of more.

[kalos]

8 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

Some firms were looking at moving north well before covid.  BBC to Manchester..CH4 to Leeds.

Siemens moved to Manchester area as HQ but kept their place down south.

Some need to operate from London but I think with the cost of covid  ie loss of custom , they will

be looking at ways to save and survive .So will take a good hard look  at relocation anyway to the north.

Some will be having to ask can we afford London with it's land and wage costs for example ?

 

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But some jobs just cannot be moved. Look, for example at Gatwick. Thousands of jobs lost - everyone from catering staff, to security staff to baggage handlers. Crawley and the surrounding area will be devastated. In due course the jobs will hopefully reappear, but there will  be a lot of misery in the meantime. 

 

Agreed Wowzz  I was saying what could happen with some companies.

I don't think they will be a mass migration but some I think will make the move.

[Harry Peterson]

7 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I used to deal with Siemens, they had offices where Avril's Nan lived. 

I used to chuckle every time they answered the phone with the cheery greeting  'Siemens Staines'... 😊

Andy 

Wonderful, Andy.  Shades of the apocryphal stories about Captain Pugwash including the infamous (and invented) characters of Seaman Staines, Roger the Cabin Boy, and Master Bates.

[AndyMichelle]

Just now, wowzz said:

A few things spring to mind

1. Give commuters 50% refund on season tickets or travel costs 

2. Suspend all NI contributions from both employers and employees for any person who returns to the office.

3. Give all returning workers a £10,000 tax break for two years

4. Allow office based workers to reclaim lunch expenditure up to a maximum of £20 per week.

I'm sure we can all think of more.

No problem Wowzz, I will pay for that... 😊

Joking aside, taxes will increase and I accept that as we received unprecedented support to help our businesses survive, so if I have to work harder and pay more, so be it. 

We could have been hung out to dry, so grateful of the help we received. 

Andy 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

No problem Wowzz, I will pay for that... 😊

Joking aside, taxes will increase and I accept that as we received unprecedented support to help our businesses survive, so if I have to work harder and pay more, so be it. 

We could have been hung out to dry, so grateful of the help we received. 

Andy 

Hopefully the cost of the support will  be less than paying unemployment benefit, social security, etc.

[zap99]

7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

A few things spring to mind

1. Give commuters 50% refund on season tickets or travel costs 

2. Suspend all NI contributions from both employers and employees for any person who returns to the office.

3. Give all returning workers a £10,000 tax break for two years

4. Allow office based workers to reclaim lunch expenditure up to a maximum of £20 per week.

I'm sure we can all think of more.

Give pensioners 10k

One tank of fuel a week

Free coffee at Starbucks

Exemption from the coming 70% tax rate needed to pay for the free-for-all give away.

[kalos]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Give pensioners 10k

One tank of fuel a week

Free coffee at Starbucks

Exemption from the coming 70% tax rate needed to pay for the free-for-all give away.

 

                            Zapp For Prime Minster Now !

 

                       and I'm not even a pensioner 

[peteukmcr]

In reply to the thread question, here’s a summary of what things are like in Manchester. 

• Still subject to local lockdown due to a rise in covid cases (since end July)
• Disregard of lockdown restrictions in some areas by those in vulnerable groups
• Adherence to the requirement to wear face coverings in shops and on trams patchy
• ‘Eat out to help out’ scheme has meant Mon-Weds is the new ‘weekend’ 
• Ban on outdoor drinking over the Bank Holiday Weekend in public places
• Manchester Pride festival cancelled
• Awaiting the announcement of the 30% reduction in staff numbers (650) next week

On a positive note

• Bookings for Business Travel Improving (albeit very slowly)
• 3 more colleagues being brought back from furlough due to increase in business
• Discussions taking place on the reopening of the office
• Assisted in returning another 210 people to Saudi Arabia (1st wave done in June)
• As a result of the above, received 2nd negative COVID test result
• New  conservatory finally complete, just need the easing of lockdown so we can entertain again!
• Spent a great 5 days in Northumberland on a ‘staycation’
• Watching ‘Manctopia’ on BBC 2 which shows the highs and lows of the development of my home city. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by peteukmcr