Rare Selbourne Posted November 26, 2020 #9176 Share Posted November 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said: The public sector is always a really easy target for governments of all political colours and it always has been. The “far better” pensions are now career average which diminishes their value and paid for (by most of the public sector) by a % deduction from salary. The days of the non contributory pension are long since gone. That % deduction is also increased with salary so while in the private sector in if you and I put in a sum we would get back the same, that’s not the case in the public sector. Those who earn more pay a much higher percentage but get back the same 80th, so it’s like a higher rate tax in effect. The private sector would not be happy if that was imposed on them as it was in public life many years ago. They have also attached the retirement age to the state pension age so the goal posts just keep moving for people. The public sector was also paid a lot paid less for many years than private sector (and no annual bonuses, Christmas party, etc) equivalents to the point that they could not retain some skill sets as people moved away for the higher pay. The government did not think that was unfair. It may be different down south but there have been redundancies up here and a lot of staff on furlough eg library, leisure, visitor attractions, hours cut at the dump etc etc. Not perhaps to the same extent as in the private sector but still affecting many individuals. I fully recognise that the books have to be balanced but the people who will suffer an effective pay cut next year(s), if indeed they still have a job with budget cuts, are the same people who have worked all the hours god sent over the last six months to keep the country going. Rant over. I don’t think it is fair to always pick on the same group of people just because you can and that would be true of any government, not just this one. I don’t disagree with much of what you are saying but, in so far as pensions are concerned, it is indeed true that Public Sector pension schemes are no longer as lucrative as they used to be, but they still remain significantly better than the vast majority of pension schemes that are on offer outside of the Public sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecttr Posted November 26, 2020 #9177 Share Posted November 26, 2020 ....and that non contributory pension was not a free pension. Part of the pay calculation was a reduction in the calculated rates equivalent to the amount you would have paid in pension contributions, the reasoning being why pay you money and just have you pay it directly back to them. the knock on effects included being able to get a smaller mortgage because back then the loan was a multiple of your salary 😠 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete14 Posted November 26, 2020 #9178 Share Posted November 26, 2020 43 minutes ago, Josy1953 said: Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related). My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates. So sorry Josy. Please accept our condolences and best wishes for your niece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Peterson Posted November 26, 2020 #9179 Share Posted November 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said: The public sector is always a really easy target for governments of all political colours and it always has been. The “far better” pensions are now career average which diminishes their value and paid for (by most of the public sector) by a % deduction from salary. The days of the non contributory pension are long since gone. That % deduction is also increased with salary so while in the private sector in if you and I put in a sum we would get back the same, that’s not the case in the public sector. Those who earn more pay a much higher percentage but get back the same 80th, so it’s like a higher rate tax in effect. The private sector would not be happy if that was imposed on them as it was in public life many years ago. They have also attached the retirement age to the state pension age so the goal posts just keep moving for people. The public sector was also paid a lot paid less for many years than private sector (and no annual bonuses, Christmas party, etc) equivalents to the point that they could not retain some skill sets as people moved away for the higher pay. The government did not think that was unfair. It may be different down south but there have been redundancies up here and a lot of staff on furlough eg library, leisure, visitor attractions, hours cut at the dump etc etc. Not perhaps to the same extent as in the private sector but still affecting many individuals. I fully recognise that the books have to be balanced but the people who will suffer an effective pay cut next year(s), if indeed they still have a job with budget cuts, are the same people who have worked all the hours god sent over the last six months to keep the country going. Rant over. I don’t think it is fair to always pick on the same group of people just because you can and that would be true of any government, not just this one. Spot on! Always easy to bash the public sector - when it suits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermotsgirl Posted November 26, 2020 #9180 Share Posted November 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, Josy1953 said: Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related). My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates. Oh no, really sorry to hear that. What a grim day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Peterson Posted November 26, 2020 #9181 Share Posted November 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, davecttr said: ....and that non contributory pension was not a free pension. Part of the pay calculation was a reduction in the calculated rates equivalent to the amount you would have paid in pension contributions, the reasoning being why pay you money and just have you pay it directly back to them. the knock on effects included being able to get a smaller mortgage because back then the loan was a multiple of your salary 😠 Quite. And because the salary as originally calculated was reduced to take account of the pension, the pensionable salary was itself reduced, leading to an even lower pension. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut006 Posted November 26, 2020 #9182 Share Posted November 26, 2020 51 minutes ago, Josy1953 said: Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related). My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates. Sorry to hear about your friends mum. Hope your niece isn’t too ill with Covid and that her chemo can start again soon Michelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adawn47 Posted November 26, 2020 #9183 Share Posted November 26, 2020 47 minutes ago, Josy1953 said: Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related). My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates. I'm so sorry to hear of your bad news Josy. I hope we can be of some support to you while you are supporting them. Take care🤗 Avril 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josy1953 Posted November 26, 2020 #9184 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Peanut006 said: Sorry to hear about your friends mum. Hope your niece isn’t too ill with Covid and that her chemo can start again soon Michelle My niece seems to be asymptomatic, she has not felt ill so didn't think that she had caught it. She is blaming her husband because he has had it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Selbourne Posted November 26, 2020 #9185 Share Posted November 26, 2020 28 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said: Spot on! Always easy to bash the public sector - when it suits. Just as it’s easy to bash the government Harry - when it suits 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Eglesbrech Posted November 26, 2020 #9186 Share Posted November 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Josy1953 said: My niece seems to be asymptomatic, she has not felt ill so didn't think that she had caught it. She is blaming her husband because he has had it. Hopefully it goes quickly and is not too serious. Always upsetting to get bad days like today. Take care. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrierjohn Posted November 26, 2020 #9187 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, pete14 said: I remember back in the 1980s, the government imposed a flat rate rise of £312 pa or £6 per week. A large number of people were complaining at the time that it was insufficient and eroded differentials. 40 years or so later, the lowest paid in the public sector are being give £250 pa, nearly £5 per week extra. Just saying😏 I dont remember the exact data, but I imagine your figures were probably maximum, although they do seem rather high for 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Selbourne Posted November 26, 2020 #9188 Share Posted November 26, 2020 What would you do? (honest answers only)..... Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalos Posted November 26, 2020 #9189 Share Posted November 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Selbourne said: What would you do? (honest answers only)..... Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them? In a word "NO" If we have rules what is the point in slagging Cummings and others ? Some could say I live 100 yards from a boundary some where , some 1/2 a mile away , others 5 minute drive . Where does it end trying to justify it ? I personally would feel a hypocrite shouting "one rule for one " and then doing the very same . I can say I would do the honest and decent thing . Other people have to seek out their own values & morals . 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMichelle Posted November 26, 2020 #9190 Share Posted November 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, Selbourne said: What would you do? (honest answers only)..... Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them? I knew this year would end in tiers... 😊 Andy 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieC Posted November 26, 2020 #9191 Share Posted November 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said: I knew this year would end in tiers... 😊 Andy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys1ShRxuAnY Show your ages and all sing along.😄 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Eglesbrech Posted November 26, 2020 #9192 Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Selbourne said: What would you do? (honest answers only)..... Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them? Up here no on the basis that the travel restrictions are in law (not just the levels) and it is a criminal offence to move out of your council area to one which has an different level. It’s not just a fine, it is a crime. As I said in a previous post I can’t go to my favourite cheese shop as it is in a different (higher) level than here. What is the situation down there? A lunch is surely not worth a criminal record if it is the same. I miss a decent meal out too so we have started to buy some nice indulgences on line or as take away from local restaurants. I’m a woose and a rule follower so in all honestly, I wound not do it. Edited November 26, 2020 by Eglesbrech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Eglesbrech Posted November 26, 2020 #9193 Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said: Duplicate post Edited November 26, 2020 by Eglesbrech Duplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete14 Posted November 26, 2020 #9194 Share Posted November 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, terrierjohn said: I dont remember the exact data, but I imagine your figures were probably maximum, although they do seem rather high for 40 years ago. No, they were across the board. I wasn’t unhappy because I wasn’t earning a great amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Eddie99 Posted November 26, 2020 #9195 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Depends whether your objective is to get “the best” for you, or to get “the best” for everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Eddie99 Posted November 26, 2020 #9196 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Just now, Eddie99 said: Depends whether your objective is to get “the best” for you, or to get “the best” for everyone (In response to Selbourne’s question, above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Peterson Posted November 26, 2020 #9197 Share Posted November 26, 2020 45 minutes ago, Selbourne said: What would you do? (honest answers only)..... Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them? Very simple answer, and entirely honest - no. If the law is clear, which it appears to be, follow it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaJane Posted November 26, 2020 #9198 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said: Quite. And because the salary as originally calculated was reduced to take account of the pension, the pensionable salary was itself reduced, leading to an even lower pension. You are quite correct - I was a civil servant for 37 years before retiring. This reduction in the amount of gross salary also impacted on, for example, the amount we were able to obtain for a mortgage. Many people are quick to say that civil servants pay and remuneration is generous, but it is not so simple! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 26, 2020 #9199 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Selbourne said: What would you do? (honest answers only)..... Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them? I guess that's a no from me, but if you decide to go ahead, I would advise not telling us. Can you imagine?.🤣 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapau27 Posted November 26, 2020 #9200 Share Posted November 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Josy1953 said: Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related). My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates. Oh Josy that is awful news and I'm so sorry for you and your friend and for your niece too. Graham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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