Ponant & PG's New Cancellation Policy

[Wendy The Wanderer]

18 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

This is the saddest think I have read today, and it had some strong competition in that regard. Even though we have no current bookings on the PG, it is sad. We too have had about 60 nights on the PG between 2002 and 2014. While we don’t cruise as much as we used to due to airline hassles and our age, we were hoping to return to the PG sometime in 2021 — if the pandemic is over. But not after reading this thread!  The original poster rightfully recommends that we continue to enjoy FP but not on the PG. But how do we do that? Land accommodations are not that great and they are EXPENSIVE! Even more so than the PG! And Princess used to cruise in FP (don’t know if it still does). But that is not my kind of cruise line anyway. For a booking in 2021, it appears I would be harmed primarily be the draconian deposit and cancelation penalties. But of more importance, I just don’t do business with a company that breaches its own contracts! 

 

Well, there's Windstar.  And the smaller resorts on some islands aren't that expensive.  We love Les Tipaniers on Moorea, and can easily imagine doing a holiday there in future.

 

8 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

... After all, in all our past PG cruises, we have never met a fellow guest from a country other than the US or Canada. ...

 

Well, a bit of an exaggeration.  We've met many cruisers on the PG from places like Australia, and Europe, especially France.  But I agree that the cruise probably wouldn't be viable without North American customers.

 

22 minutes ago, Friscorays said:

Ponant isn't the only cruise company pissing off a fair number of folks during this unprecedented time when many lines appear to be struggling to avoid bankruptcy so I am willing to cut them some slack.

 

But they are the most egregious that I've heard about.  Yes, most of the luxury lines are stringing out refunds to 90 days, but at least they are doing refunds.  Yes, they're all struggling to manage their (lack of) cash flow, but are honouring their contracts.  Ponant is not.

[Emdee]

1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

Well, there's Windstar.  And the smaller resorts on some islands aren't that expensive.  We love Les Tipaniers on Moorea, and can easily imagine doing a holiday there in future.

 

 

Well, a bit of an exaggeration.  We've met many cruisers on the PG from places like Australia, and Europe, especially France.  But I agree that the cruise probably wouldn't be viable without North American customers.

 

 

But they are the most egregious that I've heard about.  Yes, most of the luxury lines are stringing out refunds to 90 days, but at least they are doing refunds.  Yes, they're all struggling to manage their (lack of) cash flow, but are honouring their contracts.  Ponant is not.

Yes...they are unilaterally amending their contract or refusing to honour their contract. 
 

there is also Oceania and Regent who may or may not be solvent

[Wendy The Wanderer]

2 hours ago, Emdee said:

Yes...they are unilaterally amending their contract or refusing to honour their contract. 
 

there is also Oceania and Regent who may or may not be solvent

 

Yeah, but they don't have that island ambience, do they?  And I'm not about to do Oceania again, probably never. And now that I think about it, I believe Windstar has limited elevator access onboard, or none to certain decks.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Wendy The Wanderer

[Seabiscuit68]

If you want others to know about Ponant and PG's unethical behaviour, we need to start posting on social media.  I've posted on IG.  Lil_stormi_pug  (Yup it is my dog's account but I have some followers and who have larger followers and are starting to comment).  I've tagged Ponant and PG.  Ponant and PG are actively posting on IG to attract new customers to their cruises.    We need to extend this beyond CC and hit them where it hurts in social media. Please consider commenting on my IG post.   

[Hutchinj]

You are right. We need to spread the word about Ponant's behavior beyond CC.

 

I don't do IG but do lurk on FB from time to time, Not a big fan of social media, CC & TA being the exceptions.

 

Is there a thread on FB that would be appropriate to bring this to light?

 

[Hutchinj]

In case anyone is wondering what the PG/Ponant Passenger Ticket Contract says, here it is verbatim from the PG website at https://www.pgcruises.com/ms-paul-gauguin-passenger-ticket-contract :

 

Passenger Ticket Contract, para 9(b):

 

"Company may for any reason whatsoever cancel any sailing or terminate the Ticket/Contract at any time prior to departure of the Ship, and in such event, Company's only liability will be to refund to the Passenger the amount it has received for the Ticket/Contract."

 

As per their website, this is their current cancellation policy. Why do they choose to ignore it?

 

[SWFLAOK]

Yes, thank you so much for trying to bankrupt Ponant. Forgive me if I don't support your effort since I'm stuck with a very large future cruise credit on PG for the cruise that was cancelled. That FCC would be lost thanks to your  "effort".

Why don't you sue your trip insurance company? Allianz is a US company, and doesn't cover much of anything unless you die or are hit by a car on your way to your cruise. It's very expensive and worthless. They amended their coverage for those who went on their cruise when they shouldn't have and contracted corona virus, which is obviously only a small number of people. Most of those passengers were likely covered for medical expenses by their home country, as they were in the US.

I think I'm done with cruisecritic at this point, since it's really all criticism by people who have no interest in cruising again.

And cruisecritic should be done with posters who are trying to bring down the cruise industry by demanding cash refunds in a time when cruise lines are struggling to survive.

It's surprising how many people are booking cruises on upscale cruise lines and going to exotic places like the South Pacific, and are complaining about needing their money back. If you put Ponant out of business, you will not get your money back. If there's any money left to refund, it will be given to customers in France since that's where the company is based.

[Skywave]

Much like Jarod, I booked and paid for a cruise for Jul 04 and cancelled through my TA on Mar 17. PGC cancelled the cruise and agreed to refund 90% within 10 days. After 2 weeks I queried my TA who then had a notice from PGC to say there was a change in policy and that instead of a refund I would get a cruise credit redeemable for up to 2 years. This is of no use to me for several reasons one of which is health and age but also because I bought a discounted fare it is most unlikely that fare would be available again.

I have emailed PGC twice to ask them to honour the policy under which I booked but have had no reply so I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with the credit card application. I intend to do the same.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Skywave

[resistk]

2 hours ago, SWFLAOK said:

 

It's surprising how many people are booking cruises on upscale cruise lines and going to exotic places like the South Pacific, and are complaining about needing their money back. If you put Ponant out of business, you will not get your money back. If there's any money left to refund, it will be given to customers in France since that's where the company is based.

 

By your logic Ponant which is owned by one of the richest men in France, François-Henri Pinault, should be giving us poor beggars back our money plus interest.

Edited April 29, 2020 by resistk

[Jared Purdy]

The other day I gave an update on my cruise cancellation and subsequent social media barrage on Instagram.  I mentioned that Ponant sent me a message to my comment on their Instagram account and a private message through Instagram.  In both instances they indicated that they wanted to discuss the matter with me.  So far, in spite of me sending them my email and cell number, no one from Ponant has contacted me.  Seems to be par for the course for these people.  

[Jared Purdy]

14 hours ago, Skywave said:

Much like Jarod, I booked and paid for a cruise for Jul 04 and cancelled through my TA on Mar 17. PGC cancelled the cruise and agreed to refund 90% within 10 days. After 2 weeks I queried my TA who then had a notice from PGC to say there was a change in policy and that instead of a refund I would get a cruise credit redeemable for up to 2 years. This is of no use to me for several reasons one of which is health and age but also because I bought a discounted fare it is most unlikely that fare would be available again.

I have emailed PGC twice to ask them to honour the policy under which I booked but have had no reply so I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with the credit card application. I intend to do the same.

File a third party default claim with your credit card.

[resistk]

5 hours ago, Jared Purdy said:

The other day I gave an update on my cruise cancellation and subsequent social media barrage on Instagram.  I mentioned that Ponant sent me a message to my comment on their Instagram account and a private message through Instagram.  In both instances they indicated that they wanted to discuss the matter with me.  So far, in spite of me sending them my email and cell number, no one from Ponant has contacted me.  Seems to be par for the course for these people.  

 

I have had emails from the CEO but it was not helpful but you can contact him here:

Navin Sawhney | Chief Executive Officer, Americas

nsawhney@ponant.com | M +1 203 300 1641 | T +1 646 517 0360

[GreatPyrs]

7 hours ago, Jared Purdy said:

File a third party default claim with your credit card.

If our TA can't get the refund for our cruise I plan first to contact my credit card company and if that doesn't happen I will file a lawsuit that will cost them a lot more than my fare. Lots of hungry lawyers today. And also social media will light up with the facts.

[Skywave]

I'm in the process of filing a claim through Visa which could take some time to show any results. A lawsuit sounds like a good idea if that is unsuccessful, maybe a class action with several of us could be the way to go.

[Hutchinj]

 

2 minutes ago, GreatPyrs said:

If our TA can't get the refund for our cruise I plan first to contact my credit card company and if that doesn't happen I will file a lawsuit that will cost them a lot more than my fare. Lots of hungry lawyers today. And also social media will light up with the facts.

 

Good luck! My TA says he has spent hours “discussing” the situation with senior staff at Ponant but they are steadfast in their “No Refunds” policy, ignoring existing contracts. He was unable to convince of the long term damage their arrogance will surely cause. And despite their having offices in the USA, any arbitration or legal wrangling would have to be done in France as per French law. It certainly complicates things and makes any legal action expensive which I’m sure they are counting on.

But... I’m still hopeful things will improve so we can take our cruise as planned. I don’t wish PG or Ponant ill will. I just want our cruise or the money we paid for it!

 

[resistk]

14 hours ago, Hutchinj said:

 

 

Good luck! My TA says he has spent hours “discussing” the situation with senior staff at Ponant but they are steadfast in their “No Refunds” policy, ignoring existing contracts. He was unable to convince of the long term damage their arrogance will surely cause. And despite their having offices in the USA, any arbitration or legal wrangling would have to be done in France as per French law. It certainly complicates things and makes any legal action expensive which I’m sure they are counting on.

But... I’m still hopeful things will improve so we can take our cruise as planned. I don’t wish PG or Ponant ill will. I just want our cruise or the money we paid for it!

 

 

Ponant has yet to reveal what provision of French law allows unilateral changes to contracts, there was a change to the French Tourism Code in March but it had to do with domestic tourism and exempted anything regulated by the EU such as ferries, trains, and airplanes.  Unless the cruise was solely in FP; I do not think their legal argument will hold water.

[Vesude]

15 hours ago, Hutchinj said:

 

 

Good luck! My TA says he has spent hours “discussing” the situation with senior staff at Ponant but they are steadfast in their “No Refunds” policy, ignoring existing contracts. He was unable to convince of the long term damage their arrogance will surely cause. And despite their having offices in the USA, any arbitration or legal wrangling would have to be done in France as per French law. It certainly complicates things and makes any legal action expensive which I’m sure they are counting on.

But... I’m still hopeful things will improve so we can take our cruise as planned. I don’t wish PG or Ponant ill will. I just want our cruise or the money we paid for it!

 

We are in contact with our TA and Ponant. We told them that a press-release will be send out if they don't give us a full refund, as stated in their T & C on the moment we booked our cruise. I know about a family from New Sealand who received their money back after threatening with the press

[Vesude]

15 hours ago, Skywave said:

I'm in the process of filing a claim through Visa which could take some time to show any results. A lawsuit sounds like a good idea if that is unsuccessful, maybe a class action with several of us could be the way to go.

 

Can I help in any way? A press release maybe?

[Jared Purdy]

On 4/30/2020 at 10:13 AM, Vesude said:

We are in contact with our TA and Ponant. We told them that a press-release will be send out if they don't give us a full refund, as stated in their T & C on the moment we booked our cruise. I know about a family from New Sealand who received their money back after threatening with the press

 

Filing a third party default claim with my credit card (VISA) did the trick.  I got back 100% of what I paid, which was almost $25,000CDN.  Took about two weeks.

[Vesude]

19 minutes ago, Jared Purdy said:

 

Filing a third party default claim with my credit card (VISA) did the trick.  I got back 100% of what I paid, which was almost $25,000CDN.  Took about two weeks.

Very good news. 
so you only threatened with a claim and got the amount back through Ponant yourself?

[Jared Purdy]

17 minutes ago, Vesude said:

Very good news. 
so you only threatened with a claim and got the amount back through Ponant yourself?

 

No, I didn't "threaten" with a claim, I actually filed one.  However, I posted to both the PG and Ponant Instagram accounts that I had done that.  Shortly after I did that, an agent at PG contacted my TA to inform him that they were going to refund me 90% of what I had paid out.  

 

I swear, these guys make up policy on the fly.  By filing the 3rd party default, I did better than a 90% refund.  I got back 100% of what I had paid.  

 

Still, because Ponant/PG was willing to give me back 90%, I will rebook with them when the coast is clear.  We want to do this cruise.  Nothing has changed though on the Tahiti Tourism web site: all foreign visitors are banned.  No cruise ships, no international flights.  Those bans will eventually be lifted, but I'm not booking a cruise until they are lifted.  It's become quite clear that booking with certain cruise lines carries great risk.

[Vesude]

7 minutes ago, Jared Purdy said:

 

No, I didn't "threaten" with a claim, I actually filed one.  However, I posted to both the PG and Ponant Instagram accounts that I had done that.  Shortly after I did that, an agent at PG contacted my TA to inform him that they were going to refund me 90% of what I had paid out.  

 

I swear, these guys make up policy on the fly.  By filing the 3rd party default, I did better than a 90% refund.  I got back 100% of what I had paid.  

 

Still, because Ponant/PG was willing to give me back 90%, I will rebook with them when the coast is clear.  We want to do this cruise.  Nothing has changed though on the Tahiti Tourism web site: all foreign visitors are banned.  No cruise ships, no international flights.  Those bans will eventually be lifted, but I'm not booking a cruise until they are lifted.  It's become quite clear that booking with certain cruise lines carries great risk.

We booked and paid in October 2018. Our credit card company only covers claims within 365 days after payment. We already threatened with a press release. Their reaction was that our future cruise credit can have a longer validiteit of 24 months in stead of 18.
I stil can not believe that they change their T&C like daily underwear. 

[Jared Purdy]

1 minute ago, Vesude said:

We booked and paid in October 2018. Our credit card company only covers claims within 365 days after payment. We already threatened with a press release. Their reaction was that our future cruise credit can have a longer validiteit of 24 months in stead of 18.
I stil can not believe that they change their T&C like daily underwear. 

 

Sorry to hear that.  I booked in January 2020, and cancelled on March 23rd, when the previous policy of a refund -10% was still in effect.  Then they changed that policy on March 30th to no refunds, just a FCC.  I drew the line there.

[Hutchinj]

4 hours ago, Jared Purdy said:

 

Filing a third party default claim with my credit card (VISA) did the trick.  I got back 100% of what I paid, which was almost $25,000CDN.  Took about two weeks.

 

Glad to hear it. I plan to do the same if PG cancels the cruise themselves, supposedly letting us know if this happens 30 days or more before our sail date of 4 July.

 

[Vesude]

does anyone have a copy of the previous terms and conditions that applied before ponant changed them in March 2020. In mean the part that says that we are entitled to receive a refund.