Air Conditioning Covid-19 Question

[Markmom18]

Hi,

  After reading and seeing the graph in the news regarding how one person infected several others in  restaurant ( in an Asian country), I was wondering if anyone has read how Carnival (cruise industry) plans to address this issue.

  Thank you,

   Bobbi 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Markmom18 said:

Hi,

  After reading and seeing the graph in the news regarding how one person infected several others in  restaurant ( in an Asian country), I was wondering if anyone has read how Carnival (cruise industry) plans to address this issue.

  Thank you,

   Bobbi 

Can you link to this information?

[siestakeys04]

Yeah I read that too yesterday. I saw it on yahoo news. 

[Purvis1231]

If the virus is still spreading like wildfire there will be no cruising, no restaurants, no sports, no Disney, or other social gatherings until we decide it is worth the risk.  

[Markmom18]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Can you link to this information?

Hi,

  I was hoping you’d be the person who replied. I’ve read your knowledgeable reviews of ships over the years. I don’t know how to download. But, perhaps someone reading this could??   I saw the graph, and heard about it last night on CNN. 
 Bobbi 

[Markmom18]

2 hours ago, Purvis1231 said:

If the virus is still spreading like wildfire there will be no cruising, no restaurants, no sports, no Disney, or other social gatherings until we decide it is worth the risk.  

 
  Hi,

   Obviously, IDK when people will get back to cruising.  My next cruise in October is a rebook from my cancelled March 29th. Eventually, life & cruises will go on.  Restaurants will be opening across our planet. They are opening as I write. Georgia restaurants opening on Monday or is that Friday.  
 

I’d be interested to know, if there is a solution. Las Vegas Mayor on CNN, she wants to reopen restaurants, boutiques etc. Obviously, A.C. A huge factor in this climate. 
Bobbi 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Markmom18

[Organized Chaos]

The biggest threat for transmission is picking it up off of surfaces. That's why hand washing is so important. The virus being carried by respiratory droplets is still a threat, but less so. Larger respiratory droplets only travel a short distance, which is why all the guidelines we're seeing encourage a 6 ft. separation.

 

I don't know if this is the exact case you're talking about, but I found a CDC report of 10 people in a restaurant in China being infected. They knew who "patient zero" was in that instance. The others who got infected (members of 2 other families) were all within a short distance from patient zero. Basically, they concluded that they contracted the virus from patient zero, but they also could not rule out the possibility that maybe only one member of each of the other two families contracted the virus, then transmitted it to the other family members outside the restaurant. They also determined that the air flow from the A/C system could have helped to carry the respiratory droplets from patient zero to the other two tables. They performed six tests on the A/C vents (3 from the air outlet and 3 from the air inlet) and all six came up negative for the virus. Despite many other people dining in the restaurant that day, no other customers or staff were infected by patient zero. Here's the link to that CDC report if anyone's curious: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article

 

There was another thread about the fear of spreading through HVAC systems some time back. This is another one of those areas where we have to be very careful with the information we spread. I'm no expert, but from what I gather, this virus can be transmitted through respiratory droplets. That we know. But those droplets, while still extremely tiny, are relatively large and heavy as far as airborne particles go. Because of that, I don't think they are likely to be picked up and blown through HVAC systems over long distances. Note in the case above, the virus didn't even make it into the outlet or return vents, which were located right above the other two family's tables and very close to patient zero.

[Markmom18]

OrganizedChaos,

  Yes, that’s what I was referring to, and I’m truly not trying to spread misinformation. I saw the graph, heard CNN and was hoping for information the possibility of it spreading on cruise ships via the air conditioning.   It appears there isn’t any real life risk of having the virus transmitted via the a.c. That IS great news!  I cannot wait we can all safely travel again, whenever that time comes. 
Thank you!  
  Bobbi 

 

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Markmom18 said:

OrganizedChaos,

  Yes, that’s what I was referring to, and I’m truly not trying to spread misinformation. I saw the graph, heard CNN and was hoping for information the possibility of it spreading on cruise ships via the air conditioning.   It appears there isn’t any real life risk of having the virus transmitted via the a.c. That IS great news!  I cannot wait we can all safely travel again, whenever that time comes. 
Thank you!  
  Bobbi 

 

Okay, I understand the situation now.  Yes, air flow from a vent could facilitate the transmission of cough/sneeze droplets from one table in a restaurant to another, but that would not be unique to cruise ships, it could happen in any building with central ventilation.  As noted above, the CDC feels that the droplets that carry sufficient virus to infect someone won't stay together more than a few feet, and as they break up, they will dry out, and as they dry out the virus becomes less viable.  The distances involved in recirculated air in any AC system is far too great to maintain droplets of the size that it is felt to be dangerous.  Further, because of the threat of legionella virus, which is commonly found in AC system cooling towers (or the equivalent air handler coil in the ship's AC system), and which breeds in an air/moisture environment (like the condensate pan at the cooling coil), the ships are required to have sanitizing pads in the condensate pans to kill bacteria and viruses.

[Purvis1231]

this article indicated the infect was spread by the air flow and did not reside in the air conditioning system since no other customers nor staff were infected. It appears based on this observational study the infection was passed by active carriers and there was no infections from surfaces. (in this case.) 

[Purvis1231]

8 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

The biggest threat for transmission is picking it up off of surfaces. 

Thankful this is not proven science. the CDC says: It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html retrieved 4/23/2020.  

[shof515]

here is the news article that i think OP is talking about:

https://news.yahoo.com/air-conditioning-spread-coronavirus-10-154900420.html

 

[Organized Chaos]

When people think about this issue, I think many get it in their heads that the virus will be picked up by an HVAC system, carried through the ducts, and spread to other rooms or areas. For example, from cabin to cabin on a ship. If that were a real problem, we'd be hearing A LOT more about it. The fact is, the respiratory droplets that transport the virus are just too big & heavy for such a thing to happen. In the case of this restaurant, it was the air flow between the tables that (more than likely) caused the virus-laden droplets to travel farther than they normally would. The flow of air that was being blown out of the outlet vent and essentially being sucked into the return vent. Just enough airflow to pick up those droplets and carry them a bit farther. You could get the same effect from a fan or an open window with a breeze. The chances of those droplets being spread across a wide area through the duct work is extremely low, probably closer to non-existent.

 

Markmom, I wasn't accusing you of trying to spread misinformation. I'm sorry if you felt that way. I was just pointing out that we have to tread lightly when talking about this particular issue because there's a good chance it gets misunderstood and twisted around. Take the headline from that yahoo article, for example. It's sensationalized drivel, if you ask me. "Air conditioning spread the coronavirus..." Yes and no. The air flow from the A/C possibly/probably aided in the spread across a small area, but that headline conjures up images in people's minds of the virus spreading through HVAC ducts, infecting entire buildings or big portions of cruise ships. But that just isn't the case. We have to approach these issues with a rational mind and not just based on pure emotion. I think you can rest easy that this particular issue isn't nearly as bad as it may sound. 🙂

[Markmom18]

Hi,

  I so appreciate the thoughtful replies to my original concern. Like most, I am kinda bombarded with info on a daily , if not hourly basis. This COVID-19 is ALL so new. The restaurant a.c. transmission story seemed pretty plausible .  
 

Yet, the explanations here appear based on a working knowledge of how air conditioning and these droplets do & don’t disperse. Whew!!  So, again many thanks. I’ll continue looking forward to being on one of my cruises, again, when deemed safe.

 

Bobbi 

[richfret]

If Carnival is going to take that action then it should be expected that all other activities should also do so on the same day:  Hotels, motels, buses, trains, planes, stadiums, theaters, arenas, rinks, churches, malls, stores, etc.  It is a lost cause.  If you were cruising next month, one of the other activities would infect you prior to your arrival at the ship.  Not trying to be nasty but just practical.  At this point, all we can do is fight the virus and wait it out.

[Markmom18]

11 hours ago, richfret said:

If Carnival is going to take that action then it should be expected that all other activities should also do so on the same day:  Hotels, motels, buses, trains, planes, stadiums, theaters, arenas, rinks, churches, malls, stores, etc.  It is a lost cause.  If you were cruising next month, one of the other activities would infect you prior to your arrival at the ship.  Not trying to be nasty but just practical.  At this point, all we can do is fight the virus and wait it out.

  
  Hi,

   Today is our 6th week of Stay At Home . No stores, no shopping, just staying on our property with a walk everyday in our small community.  We don’t live in the big city but in an old community that has large sized lots . Lol! Who knew that would come in handy one day. 
   Bobbi 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Markmom18

[BlerkOne]

More is not known about the virus than is known. There is no point in having knee jerk reactions to speculation. A lot more studies need to be performed.