SS/RCCL Finances: Improving, Options, Questions??!!

[highplanesdrifters]

23 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

Probably a good idea.  I have most of mine buried in cans in the back yard. 😬 IMO the biggest concern is the US National Debt.  Heaven forbid there is a time where they have problems selling the hundereds of billions they issue every week.  Neither the Red guy or the Blue guy seem to have a viable solution.  So cocktails on the veranda sounds good to me.

 

 

Cans in the backyard, brilliant.  I've been putting my spare change into those Crypto machines at the Grocery store.

 

Blue vs. Red = Cocktails on the Veranda.😃

 

Interesting note - CC would not let me post the above post until I made an edit.  I figured it was Blue vs. Red.  Alas no, I mentioned a Crypto coin by name.

[RetiredandTravel]

45 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

Cans in the backyard, brilliant.  I've been putting my spare change into those Crypto machines at the Grocery store.

 

 

This article says Cathie Wood just took her price target up to $3.8 million for Crypto.   Not sure how she arrived at that number.  🙃

 

CC wouldn't let me attach the article.

 

Terry I think Viking is closer to SS than the large ships, not sure about the river component.  We don't care for Viking's food & wine offering (NO Champagne😡except for seperate purchase is my understanding).  They do have an expedition cruise to the Great Lakes we have on our radar.  If I recall one analyst felt NCLH was more recession resistant because of the high mix of premium/luxury ships.  It will be interesting to see how Viking trades vs its rivals.  Not sure.

 

 

Edited May 2 by RetiredandTravel

[TLCOhio]

22 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

Terry I think Viking is closer to SS than the large ships, not sure about the river component.  We don't care for Viking's food & wine offering (NO Champagne😡except for seperate purchase is my understanding).  They do have an expedition cruise to the Great Lakes we have on our radar.  If I recall one analyst felt NCLH was more recession resistant because of the high mix of premium/luxury ships.  It will be interesting to see how Viking trades vs its rivals.  Not sure.

 

Appreciate from R&T and highplanesdrifters these great follow-ups and comments.  Agree that Viking will be worth watching and considering.  For us, it is all about itineraries, interesting port stops/options, etc.  From friends who have done Viking Ocean, there are various pro/con factors to consider.  As Viking adds more Ocean ships with that 900-passenger size, we will be watching with interest.  Plus, checking as to what reasonable "value" in pricing will be offered.  Lots of variables!!   

 

From MSN News and this financial news website this morning, they had this headline: “Why Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Stock Was Tumbling This Week” with these highlights: “Some investors just can't be pleased. That seemed to be the dynamic at work this week with Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings, whose stock was sinking this week despite quite a decent quarterly earnings report. According to data compiled by S&P Global Market Intelligence, as of early morning Friday the share price was more than 16% underwater week to date.  It seems as if the company was the victim of outsize expectations. Perhaps that isn't so surprising given the persistently high demand in the travel industry in these early years after pandemic lockdowns.”

 

Here is more from their comments about NCLH:  "Sentiment in Norwegian stock wasn't helped by a clutch of price target cuts from several of those analysts -- even though none was drastic.  Susquehanna's Christopher Stathoulopoulos lowered his price target to $18 per share from the previous $21, for example, while maintaining a neutral recommendation. Wells Fargo prognosticator Daniel Politzer also kept his neutral stance in cutting his price target to $19 per share from $21."

 

Is "neutral" good enough for the cruise line future?  Or, is it a sign seeing dark, negative clouds looming over the croppy seas' horizon?

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/why-norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-stock-was-tumbling-this-week/ar-AA1o5rID?ocid=BingNewsSearch

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados on the Silver Cloud for 26 days. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 75,085 views:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2076101-live-amazon-river-caribbean-many-pix’s-terryohio/

[highplanesdrifters]

22 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

Cathie Wood

😂😂😂  a lot of customers have stopped drinking her Koolaid. Fund outflows faster than a Maelstrom. 

 

22 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

NO Champagne😡except for seperate purchase

Oh, the humanity. 

 

22 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

900-passenger

I'm out.  I can just see all those busses lined up. Gives me the heebie jeebees.  I suspect the cruising tide with lift their ships. Today's weak unemployment number is probably not their demographic. 😃

[RetiredandTravel]

1 hour ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

Oh, the humanity. 

 

 

🤣😂 🤣- made my day

 

Looks like they wine choices are white, red & rose.  The pay wine list does look good & reasonable IMO. If that doesn't hit home the Gin choices according to attached are Beefeater or Gordons.  We loved Gin & Tonic's, they are another casualty of aging for us.  

 

https://docs.vikingcruises.com/MVJ/onboardbeveragemenu_oceans.pdf

 

 

 

 

[RetiredandTravel]

3 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Appreciate from R&T and highplanesdrifters these great follow-ups and comments.  Agree that Viking will be worth watching and considering.  For us, it is all about itineraries, interesting port stops/options, etc.  From friends who have done Viking Ocean, there are various pro/con factors to consider.  As Viking adds more Ocean ships with that 900-passenger size, we will be watching with interest.  Plus, checking as to what reasonable "value" in pricing will be offered.  Lots of variables!!   

 

 

 

Thanks Terry.  I don't want to be misinterpreted on my comments.  I'm only discussing our own preferences and joking some.  We've looked at Viking many times and although Viking has some exellent characteristics have decided that it doesn't offer what we are looking for.  My comments weren't intended to be condescending towards anyone or Viking. 

 

 

 

[TLCOhio]

4 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

Thanks Terry.  I don't want to be misinterpreted on my comments.  I'm only discussing our own preferences and joking some.  We've looked at Viking many times and although Viking has some exellent characteristics have decided that it doesn't offer what we are looking for.  My comments weren't intended to be condescending towards anyone or Viking. 

 

Don't worry, R&T.  All of us have had experiences and options, likes and dislikes, etc.  All are entitled to express comments, share pro/con factors and make follow-ups.  No cruise line is 100% perfect, nor fitting exactly for each individual's preferences, budget and style.  

 

From the Wall Street Journal late Friday afternoon after the stock market closing, below are the charts for the three major cruise lines.  

 

Things, trends and patterns look very different for each of these corporations.  Why and how?  Clearly the markets and traders did not appreciate the position and direction for Norwegian after hearing their mid-week quarterly financial report.  

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Athens & Greece: Visuals, details from two visits in a city and nearby with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 64,639 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

 

Here are the Wall Street Journal charts for the most recent five days of stock trading with the current "Big Three" cruise companies.  For Norwegian, things did not "bounce back" on Thursday or Friday.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

 

For its first few days on the NY Stock Exchange, Viking moved up, UP, UP!!  Will that trend continue?  For how long?  Should Viking be included for future postings?:

 

For comparison, here is the broader S&P 500 chart for this past week.  Looks rather "rocky" and fast-changing?:

[DavyWavey70]

7 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

 

Thanks Terry.  I don't want to be misinterpreted on my comments.  I'm only discussing our own preferences and joking some.  We've looked at Viking many times and although Viking has some exellent characteristics have decided that it doesn't offer what we are looking for.  My comments weren't intended to be condescending towards anyone or Viking. 

 

 

 

Whilst I’m quite happy to be frank about Viking. They require full payment a ridiculous amount of time ahead and refuse any refunds even when they have cancelled the cruise themselves.  I Sat through torturess hours listening to my partner fighting them tooth and nail to refund cruises that they had cancelled themselves in the lockdown and with no result. They are a company with no morals and rely heavily upon their t&cs which should be digested in great detail before you part with your hard earned cash. But thinking about it, if you name your company after a race that is renowned for their raping and pillaging prowess why would you expect anything different? 

[highplanesdrifters]

22 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

 If that doesn't hit home the Gin choices according to attached are Beefeater or Gordons.  We loved Gin & Tonic's, they are another casualty of aging for us.  

 

https://docs.vikingcruises.com/MVJ/onboardbeveragemenu_oceans.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

$9 for a shot of Titos? If that's what they're getting it should up the stock valuation.

 

G&T victim here.  Might be a bit snobby about the options though. Should I be, been ages since I've tasted them?

 

 

[jpalbny]

9 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

G&T victim here.  Might be a bit snobby about the options though. Should I be, been ages since I've tasted them?

 

Not my favorites either. I'd take them if they were included, but I usually buy the more interesting stuff for home. And the type of tonic is important too.

 

23 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

We loved Gin & Tonic's, they are another casualty of aging for us.  

 

And here I thought that the perks of aging included more time to sip G&Ts! If that is the case I'm asking for a refund. In all seriousness, the case fatality rate for malaria rises sharply with age, so I don't think it's wise to take chances. Even in Albany!

[TLCOhio]

14 hours ago, DavyWavey70 said:

They require full payment a ridiculous amount of time ahead and refuse any refunds even when they have cancelled the cruise themselves.  I Sat through torturess hours listening to my partner fighting them tooth and nail to refund cruises that they had cancelled themselves in the lockdown and with no result. 

 

YES!  YES!!!  That "pay up in full way ahead" is one of my big, big hang-ups about considering Viking.  Also, have had friends who had to hassle for getting proper credit on re-booking after a booked-and-paid cruise was scrubbed during the Covid period.  

 

Will be interested to see as Viking adds more ocean cruise ships if and when they "get real" with their payment policies and other financial practices.  

 

It will be interesting to see as Ritz-Carlton and others go after the more upscale, smaller ship market if Viking's offers and options evolve.  PLUS, we are all waiting till when the next recession hits and how deep it impacts consumer decisions/spending.  

 

Sorry, not a Gin and Tonic guy, so I have no opinions as to that special subject.  Am more of a frozen margarita guy as the below visual shows from our February 2024 Silver Moon, Mumbai to Singapore adventure.  Anyone remember super wonderful Jeffrey from past Silversea sailings?

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 56,161 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

[RetiredandTravel]

1 hour ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

$9 for a shot of Titos? If that's what they're getting it should up the stock valuation.

 

G&T victim here.  Might be a bit snobby about the options though. Should I be, been ages since I've tasted them?

 

 

 

I loved Beefeaters (Tanqueray more) in the 80's/90's.  Went to Hendrick's somewhere along the line.  Why? Probably to be snobby.  Beefeater IMO is a very good Gin.  Gordon's I drank in the '70's. I think.

 

47 minutes ago, jpalbny said:

 

And here I thought that the perks of aging included more time to sip G&Ts! If that is the case I'm asking for a refund. In all seriousness, the case fatality rate for malaria rises sharply with age, so I don't think it's wise to take chances. Even in Albany!

 

Wisdom is one (there aren't many) advantage of aging.

 

[Port Power]

1 hour ago, TLCOhio said:

 

YES!  YES!!!  That "pay up in full way ahead" is one of my big, big hang-ups about considering Viking.  Also, have had friends who had to hassle for getting proper credit on re-booking after a booked-and-paid cruise was scrubbed during the Covid period.  

 

Will be interested to see as Viking adds more ocean cruise ships if and when they "get real" with their payment policies and other financial practices.  

 

It will be interesting to see as Ritz-Carlton and others go after the more upscale, smaller ship market if Viking's offers and options evolve.  PLUS, we are all waiting till when the next recession hits and how deep it impacts consumer decisions/spending.  

 

Sorry, not a Gin and Tonic guy, so I have no opinions as to that special subject.  Am more of a frozen margarita guy as the below visual shows from our February 2024 Silver Moon, Mumbai to Singapore adventure.  Anyone remember super wonderful Jeffrey from past Silversea sailings?

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 56,161 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

Jeffrey is still going strong.  I had the pleasure of meeting him on a couple of cruises last year, and saw a recording of one of his acts.  Fabulous person!

[TLCOhio]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:42 PM, Port Power said:

Jeffrey is still going strong.  I had the pleasure of meeting him on a couple of cruises last year, and saw a recording of one of his acts.  Fabulous person!

 

Appreciate this great follow-up about Jeffrey.  Outstanding staff such as Jeffrey are part of what can make a journey with Silversea so very fun and amazing.  Dealing with and/or waiting for the top corporate staff to do the "right thing, however, is a very different situation.   

 

From the Wall Street Journal's sister Barron's publication this morning, they had this headline: “Viking’s IPO Scores. Kid-Free Cruises Have Been a Hit With Its Customer Base.”

 

With their tight paywall, it is hard to read the full article, but this was one of the reporting highlights: “Viking Cruises founder and CEO Torstein Hagen says the company’s child-free ships have been critical to its success as it courted older customers for luxury European river and ocean journeys.”

 

Going after "older customers"!!  Yes, that's one of the focuses for the luxury and upscale cruise lines.  BUT, how does Silversea and others shift and also appeal and connect with those younger for the future as our demographic ages out and has a shrinking wallet?

 

Full story at:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/viking-ipo-kid-free-cruises-1f867fda

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast on the Silver Spirit.  Now at 34,975 views.  Many pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

[highplanesdrifters]

21 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Going after "older customers"!!  Yes, that's one of the focuses for the luxury and upscale cruise lines.  BUT, how does Silversea and others shift and also appeal and connect with those younger for the future as our demographic ages out and has a shrinking wallet?

 

Their embrace and doling of free cabins to Tic Tok influencers is one way the luxury lines are connecting. Appealing is another issue.  Expedition trips are an easier sell.

 

At what point do luxury cruise lines market and cater to the multi-generational market. Grandparents want to spend time with kids and grandchildren. They finance these trips as a sort of bribe. Resorts and larger cruise lines are on it. Will families with hoards of children and mopey teenagers be a turn off for their loyal clientele?

[RetiredandTravel]

13 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

Their embrace and doling of free cabins to Tic Tok influencers is one way the luxury lines are connecting. Appealing is another issue.  Expedition trips are an easier sell.

 

At what point do luxury cruise lines market and cater to the multi-generational market. Grandparents want to spend time with kids and grandchildren. They finance these trips as a sort of bribe. Resorts and larger cruise lines are on it. Will families with hoards of children and mopey teenagers be a turn off for their loyal clientele?

 

We pick dates where it is very improbable there will be school age children or young working folk on board.  When you look at SS newer schedules there are many 7 day itineraries in the summer, directly targeting a younger demographic.

 

Last year we were at a Caribbean resort with quite a few younger couples (probably married). They were all very nice and respectful to us older people but I found it amazing that at dinner (two at a table)  they were on social media on their phones and when they found something of interest they would show the other person (often laugh).  Thats how they communicate, nose in the phone for almost the entire dinner.

 

Viking markets itself as very focused on excursions and enrichment which is a big positive for us.  The other issues I've mentioned are a deal killer for us.

 

 

 

[highplanesdrifters]

27 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

When you look at SS newer schedules there are many 7 day itineraries in the summer, directly targeting a younger demographic.

 

I've ranted about being on a Seabourn 21 day Med cruise which was really 3 back to back 7 day runs.  Heard some EU/UK TA's running specials. Great ports and had an amazing time. Sadly a party ship. Younger demographic (35-55) making sure they got their monies worth of booze. Oh lordy,  put a shirt on and get a cover up. Things I can't unsee.  Never again.

 

Want a younger demographic?  Seven day trips and cheap fares will get you there.

 

29 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

they were on social media on their phones and when they found something of interest they would show the other person 

 

Picture us headed to lunch last week right after the Fed decision.   We paused in the car before going into the restaurant to listen to Powells opening remarks. We watched the markets gyrate on our phones, showing each other charts.

We laughed - what must people be saying about those oldsters sitting in the car on their phones. 😂

 

Dinner - those phones better stay hidden.

[RetiredandTravel]

Cannonball !!!!!!!!!!

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, highplanesdrifters said:

Heard some EU/UK TA's running specials. Great ports and had an amazing time. Sadly a party ship. Younger demographic (35-55) making sure they got their monies worth of booze. Oh lordy,  put a shirt on and get a cover up. Things I can't unsee.  Never again.Want a younger demographic?  Seven day trips and cheap fares will get you there.

 

Great insight and follow-up as to the challenges with some demographics and the difficulties on shorter cruises when certain passengers are too focused on quick, "party-time" activities.  That can make things bad for those just seeking to "relax and enjoy".  

 

Below from this morning's Wall Street Journal is their Royal Caribbean chart showing this stock hitting a 52-week high.  Progress?  Going up, UP??  Neither Carnival or Norwegian are moving in such positive directions to match RCL

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 33,105 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

[TLCOhio]

For added perspective, here is the Wall Street Journal chart for Royal Caribbean during the past year or 52 weeks.  Nice moves, up and UP!!

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

[TLCOhio]

Since I only posted the history for the past three years, here is the Wall Street Journal chart for Royal Caribbean during the past five years.  That provides some added, signifiant perspective

 

Of special note is that on December 1, 2019, the RCL stock was previously peaked at $133.51. Now $143.71 this morning, they are more than fully recovered from the downward slide during the Covid shutdown and recovery period.  WOW!  

 

That's a nice "bounce-back" for RCL.   

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 22,646 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

[TLCOhio]

Here is more from the Wall Street Journal charts for Carnival and Norwegian during the past five years.  This provides even more, signifiant perspective as to the how stock market very differently views Royal Caribbean versus their two major competitors.  

 

It is like a "Tale of Two Cities" for RCL versus the other two. Right or wrong?

 

On December 1, 2019, the Carnival stock previously peaked at $50.83. Now $14.41 this morning.  Norwegian stock previously peaked December 2019 at $58.41. Now $16.02 early this afternoon.

 

Carnival Five-Year History: 

 

Norwegian Five-Year History: 

 

Both way off from their peaks before the downward slide during the Covid shutdown and recovery period.  

 

Added reactions, insights and comments?  Future predictions??  

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

Summer 2019 Calgary, Jasper/Banff National Parks, Western Canada Rocky Mountaineer rail adventure, Vancouver, sailing up to Alaska on Silver Muse, post-cruise excursion to Denali, etc.  Many visuals, Our firsts in these scenic areas!  Now at 21,312 views. Live/blog: 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2682584-live-terryohio-silver-muse-alaska-canadarockies-pix’s/

[Neilio]

1 hour ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Since I only posted the history for the past three years, here is the Wall Street Journal chart for Royal Caribbean during the past five years.  That provides some added, signifiant perspective

 

Of special note is that on December 1, 2019, the RCL stock was previously peaked at $133.51. Now $143.71 this morning, they are more than fully recovered from the downward slide during the Covid shutdown and recovery period.  WOW!  

 

That's a nice "bounce-back" for RCL.   

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 22,646 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

Thanks for your work posting these. I have been writing covered calls on RCL for the past year. It’s been an incredible move up and up. GLTA

[TLCOhio]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:53 PM, Neilio said:

Thanks for your work posting these. I have been writing covered calls on RCL for the past year. It’s been an incredible move up and up. GLTA

 

Appreciate these great comments and follow-ups.  Yes, it has been nice move up for Royal Caribbean as they have progressed much more as viewed by the stock traders versus their two main competitors .  

 

From the Wall Street Journal below are the trading updates during this past week.  Plus, other trends and comparisons.  

 

Any predictions for later this month as to how the markets move?  Or, for the second half of 2024?

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Early 2020, many visuals and details from New Zealand/South Pacific in going from Auckland to French Polynesia.  This includes Bora Bora, Fiji, NZ experiences, etc:  Live/blog:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2735732-live-terryohio-“new”-regatta-south-pacificnz-pix’s/

 

From the Wall Street Journal, here are the charts for the trading during this week of the three major cruise lines.  In the past, it was more likely that these three stocks seemed to match each other as to their daily ups and downs.  Not so much any more?:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

 

For 2024 since January 1, here has been the significant upward moves for RCL during this recent period of time.:

 

Here is the down and then UP run for the overall S&P 500 during this past one-month period.:

[TLCOhio]

For comparison from the Wall Street Journal late Friday afternoon after the stock market closing, below is the chart for Viking.    This is their first full week of trading after their IPO.  Does this seem a little "rocky".  Lots of ups and downs?

 

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio