Article about Covid 19 and cruise company responses

[crusinbanjo]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew-11588346502?mod=itp_wsj&ru=yahoo
 

Article from May 2, 2020 Wall Street Journal, interesting read.  Does not speak to well of cruise ship operations and their response and responsibility to Pax and port officials. The article implies that in some cases, proper reporting and procedures were not followed when disembarking sick pax and not notifying authorities of sickness on board.  
 

would be interested in others thoughts

[Desert Diamond]

Read article this morning also. In my opinion, I agree with you, cruisinbanjo, it’s pretty damning.

[Taters]

Is it possible to cut and paste the article here?  I am not subscribed to WSJ.

[rjbean4]

2 minutes ago, Taters said:

Is it possible to cut and paste the article here?  I am not subscribed to WSJ.

Same here as I wish I could read it too.

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, Taters said:

Is it possible to cut and paste the article here?  I am not subscribed to WSJ.

 

Copy/Paste is against the CC rules but the article is also available on MSN:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew/ar-BB13tPcs

Edited May 2, 2020 by bluesea321

[Taters]

19 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Copy/Paste is against the CC rules but the article is also available on MSN:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew/ar-BB13tPcs

Thank you for the link!

[Tampa Girl]

Now,  is WSJ going to do an equally in depth article on airline passengers being deposited in the U.S. from foreign countries without proper testing or advance notification?  If I recall correctly, the first, or one of the first, cases of COVID was the result of an American returning from a trip to, I think, Israel.  And look where that went!  There is a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking in the article concerning a once-in-a century event.  

[ON cruiser]

Well, Tampa Girl, with what facts in the article do you disagree? While this hopefully is a rare event (actually, there have been other viruses, SARS, etc., and arguably every nation ought to have been better prepared, yet that is "another story"), that does not mean that the standard safety precautions for any outbreak of infection, which precautions are described in the article, should have been ignored, as the article asserts was the case. 

 

Of course, assertions are just that. Yet, as another poster above noted, the article, which describes how the cruise industry just ignored or overlooked their own protocols, is pretty damning. It does not inspire me to run right out and book a cruise.   

[Tampa Girl]

17 minutes ago, ON cruiser said:

Well, Tampa Girl, with what facts in the article do you disagree? While this hopefully is a rare event (actually, there have been other viruses, SARS, etc., and arguably every nation ought to have been better prepared, yet that is "another story"), that does not mean that the standard safety precautions for any outbreak of infection, which precautions are described in the article, should have been ignored, as the article asserts was the case. 

 

Of course, assertions are just that. Yet, as another poster above noted, the article, which describes how the cruise industry just ignored or overlooked their own protocols, is pretty damning. It does not inspire me to run right out and book a cruise.   

 

Where in the article doe it describe the efforts made by the cruiselines to control the infections once they were discovered?  Where does it discuss the introduction of the virus by non-cruisers?  Also, and I may be not remembering correctly, I thought that the first death from the disease was in Seattle, and it was not attributable to any cruise.  My objections to the article is that is an overly simplistic approach to how and why the virus got started in this country.  Yes, a good point can be made for the cruiselines immediately stopping all sailings in early February, but being profit-motivated entities, that is a rather unrealistic expectation.  The impression one is left with after reading the article is that the cruise lines are the primary source of the virus in the U.S.  I see no facts in the article that such is the case.  A contributing factor, to be sure, but not shown to actually be the primary factor.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thank you for the link.  Interesting article.

[crusinbanjo]

16 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Where in the article doe it describe the efforts made by the cruiselines to control the infections once they were discovered?  Where does it discuss the introduction of the virus by non-cruisers?  Also, and I may be not remembering correctly, I thought that the first death from the disease was in Seattle, and it was not attributable to any cruise.  My objections to the article is that is an overly simplistic approach to how and why the virus got started in this country.  Yes, a good point can be made for the cruiselines immediately stopping all sailings in early February, but being profit-motivated entities, that is a rather unrealistic expectation.  The impression one is left with after reading the article is that the cruise lines are the primary source of the virus in the U.S.  I see no facts in the article that such is the case.  A contributing factor, to be sure, but not shown to actually be the primary factor.

what I took away from the article was not that the WSJ was trying to blame the cruise companies for continuing to operate, but not disclosing the virus or an infectious disease was present  when stopping at ports and or disembarking a sick passenger to a local hospital.   We see this lack of transparency and covering of one’s butt far to often with the cruise lines and this time I think they are very exposed in how they deal with situations is different from what they claim.  
 

anyway, that’s my 2 cents.

 

[DaveSJ711]

26 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Where in the article doe it describe the efforts made by the cruiselines to control the infections once they were discovered?  Where does it discuss the introduction of the virus by non-cruisers?  Also, and I may be not remembering correctly, I thought that the first death from the disease was in Seattle, and it was not attributable to any cruise.  My objections to the article is that is an overly simplistic approach to how and why the virus got started in this country.  Yes, a good point can be made for the cruiselines immediately stopping all sailings in early February, but being profit-motivated entities, that is a rather unrealistic expectation.  The impression one is left with after reading the article is that the cruise lines are the primary source of the virus in the U.S.  I see no facts in the article that such is the case.  A contributing factor, to be sure, but not shown to actually be the primary factor.

 

Where exactly does the WSJ say that "cruise lines are the primary source of the virus in the U.S."?  There's no such statement in the article.  What the article does say, right at the top, is that cruise ship operators - by continuing to fill ships with passengers - were "helping spread COVID-19 to the U.S. and around the globe."  That is correct, and it's a far cry from your "primary source" claim.

[ON cruiser]

31 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

The impression one is left with after reading the article is that the cruise lines are the primary source of the virus in the U.S.  I see no facts in the article that such is the case.  A contributing factor, to be sure, but not shown to actually be the primary factor.

 

I agree that the cruise lines were a significant contributing factor, albeit not hardly the only one. But my impression from the article was not the same as Tampa Girl's. Rather, it was what Crusinbanjo said:

 

8 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

what I took away from the article was not that the WSJ was trying to blame the cruise companies for continuing to operate, but not disclosing the virus or an infectious disease was present  when stopping at ports and or disembarking a sick passenger to a local hospital.   We see this lack of transparency and covering of one’s butt far to often with the cruise lines and this time I think they are very exposed in how they deal with situations is different from what they claim.  

 

There was a lack of transparency and also, as the article laid out compellingly, a seemingly deliberate series of omissions and failures to disclose, and failures to follow their own established procedures and protocols. All this made an already difficult situation that much worse.   

[Tampa Girl]

5 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

what I took away from the article was not that the WSJ was trying to blame the cruise companies for continuing to operate, but not disclosing the virus or an infectious disease was present  when stopping at ports and or disembarking a sick passenger to a local hospital.   We see this lack of transparency and covering of one’s butt far to often with the cruise lines and this time I think they are very exposed in how they deal with situations is different from what they claim.  
 

anyway, that’s my 2 cents.

 

 

I don't know how many times a Captain did not disclose an infectious disease when stopping at ports or disembarking a sick passenger, but shame on those that did.  From my own experience with HAL, once on the Amsterdam in 2018 and in January, 2020, on the Zaandam, I know that my quarantine status was revealed to the county's officials because I was not allowed to disembark, altlhough quarantine had just been lifted.  I also want to commend HAL on their prompt and diligent efforts to contain a virus as soon as it was discovered.  Quarantine meant stay in your cabin or else!  The notices went out to all department heads, and the room stewards were advised to report any passenger seen outside the cabin.  Quarantine is not lifted until the passenger has been 24 hours without a fever.  Not having sailed any other cruise line except HAL and Cunard, I cannot comment on how thoroughly other lines handle containment.

[Tampa Girl]

5 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Where exactly does the WSJ say that "cruise lines are the primary source of the virus in the U.S."?  There's no such statement in the article.  What the article does say, right at the top, is that cruise ship operators - by continuing to fill ships with passengers - were "helping spread COVID-19 to the U.S. and around the globe."  That is correct, and it's a far cry from your "primary source" claim.

 

I did not say that the article claimed the cruise lines were the primary source.  I said that the article left me with that impression.  Others disagree.  No problem.

[HappyInVan]

53 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Where in the article doe it describe the efforts made by the cruiselines to control the infections once they were discovered?  Where does it discuss the introduction of the virus by non-cruisers?  

 

Tampa Girl,

 

Actually, it seems that some cruise companies made no effort to reduce transmission.

 

There's the astonishing case of the Ruby Princess that managed to infect a third of the passengers on a 11-day cruise (March 8 to 19). It is infamous because the mass infection was allowed to disembark without health checks. Causing a tenth of Australia's cases (at the time), and 12 out of 13 of the deaths in remote Tasmania.

 

There's an official inquiry in New South Wales about the debacle. So far, press reports of the testimony from the ship's chief physician have not been encouraging. I look forward to read the full transcript of the testimony from the ship's captain, the CD and the MO.

 

BTW, the airplanes-are-contagious red herring has been dragged out every time that the cruise industry has been criticized. Well,  pax on flights are now required to wear masks on the plane and in the airport. The airlines even distribute a kit (mask, gloves etc). I eagerly await the news that cruise pax are required to do the same!