Not so fast

[OceanBlueWaters]

4 hours ago, david_sobe said:

Well you are being negative and projecting on to me.   I have over 6000+ posts here on CC while you have only 96.  I love cruising more than anyone.  Go on vacation.  But don't burden the rest of society with your complaints of being stranded, getting sick, quarantined, and not getting refunds.  We just went through that cycle and you will be begging those you claim as being "negative" to come rescue you.

Its sad when reality makes you think negatively.  "I will go have a vacation"  Good, that is exactly what NCL was telling customers 2 months ago.  Nothing has changed.  Perhaps you should call NCL and ask them why they are being so negative and not sailing 🤭

I so agree!

Prior to C19, no one knew their fate/destiny/death and had no control.  Tornadoes, floods, fires.  Mother nature/cancer was out of our control and nothing we could do.  We lived each day.

We have science/data that proves we can control this killer disease.  We have the power to control more deaths; unlike Mother Nature/Cancer.

I am curious to hear about the protocols the cruise lines will be presenting.  Is a Doctor's note required?  Fask Mask? Elevator situation?  Terminal situation? Has any cruise line rolled out those plans?

We hear they plan on sailing in July/August, but what are the requirements to board?  A simple temperature check will not solve problems.  What if I was fine when I boarded a plane from NJ to Miami/Galveston.  No temp when I passed through boarding/security, but I got sick during the cruise and didn't tell anyone.  So many variables...

NJ has just implemented an EO keeping lockdown for another 30 days.  Sure, I miss grabbing a drink with my friends after work at our favorite bar/Tavern. Sure I miss cruising, but that will have to wait.  I am definitely not happy about food shortages either.

Point?  Some people here think I am "mad" at their cruise plans.  Nope.  Just giving a different perspective and how I can possibly help to stop the spread which =  less potential deaths.  Cruising is not a priority for me.  Stopping the spread is a priority for me and my family...

I hope everyone remains safe. Be responsible.

JMO.  Flame away...
🙂
 

[HuliHuli]

4 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

If NCL fails those ships will be used by somebody else.

"A lot of people have an attitude that involves a lot of “ifs” and “buts”. This kind of attitude often becomes a huge hurdle in the path that leads up to success. People who welcome everything with either an “if” or a “but” are essentially the people who are quite unlikely to succeed in life." (1)  I do not believe NCL will fail precisely because they have a first class fleet and a business model (as others have commented) that investors will recognize as successful. Their record in the face of the Covid-19 pandemic (again as others have commented) is admirable.  Have faith - we will be Freestyle sailing again soon!

 

(1)  https://www.alrasub.com/life-is-full-of-ifs-and-buts/

[sunbrookgal]

9 hours ago, Dar & Bob said:

This was just posted on Cruise Industry News.  NCL will be around for a while. 

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22898-norwegian-raises-2-billion-over-1-year-of-cash-if-needed.html?fbclid=IwAR1TuiRZh9uqs5W-AdIme5fNEzTvm_tdu0jU2BDNKKCre68EK5H58fLtGHk

12 months of closure. 

 

[Outerdog]

3 hours ago, HuliHuli said:

"A lot of people have an attitude that involves a lot of “ifs” and “buts”. ...People who welcome everything with either an “if” or a “but” are essentially the people who are quite unlikely to succeed in life."

 

<snip>

 

Have faith - we will be Freestyle sailing again soon!

 

Sorry, "have faith" is no different than "if" or "but" -- full of optimism with no foundation whatsoever. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Outerdog

[HuliHuli]

11 hours ago, Outerdog said:

 

Sorry, "have faith" is no different than "if" or "but" -- full of optimism with no foundation whatsoever. 

Hmmm... I always thought that faith is confidence in what we believe and the assurance that the Lord is working, even though we cannot see it. Faith knows that no matter what the situation, in our lives or someone else’s, that the Lord is working in it.  And faith is built upon a foundation of many millennia. JMHO

[djkolp]

19 hours ago, Corliss said:

 

 

"We have developed reasonably good treatments for covid and fatality rates are now about .66 percent."

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by djkolp
quote

[djkolp]

There are currently no treatments or vaccine for Covid-19.  These are undisputed facts.  They are very easy to find. 

 

The mortality rates from Covid-19 as of May 7th.

 U.S.= 5.97%    Spain=11.73%   Italy=13.84%   U.K.=14.89   France=14.81%   Germany=4.32%

3 minutes ago, djkolp said:

 

 

[TSUmom]

18 hours ago, littlelulu01 said:

I get what you’re saying but not sure it’s fair to single out the cruise population. Depending on what media and political view we subscribed to way back in January and February - we were either dealing with a common cold/political hoax or an almost certain pandemic unless we started widespread testing  and social distancing.  Cruise lines didn’t do anything different than our government, airlines, and the general public were doing.  They were just easier to identify, single out and blame.  People were inadvertently and unknowingly getting on flights, ships... because they had zero ability to find out if they were contagious/had the virus. 
 

I think the cdc is telling the industry we aren’t willing to start back up with cruises... unless we do make changes.  Passengers and the industry would be insane to just go back to the same way of travel and expect a different outcome. But we also can’t just forget about ever leaving the house.  At some point I want to go back to traveling, flying, cruises... but only if I’m not blatantly risking my own and others lives.  I can see travel happening with viable treatment options to decrease death rates and severity. I can also see it with improvements to ppe and procedures to decrease severity.  A vaccine is a little too far away to wait on reopening the economy if we wish to keep any semblance of life as we now know it. 
 

We all see the protesters out in force, refusing masks and professing their rights yet when they and their children get sick, first responders will risk their life to provide treatment. If we were social distancing and had the ability to get tested when folks on land were sick way back in February We’d not have this excruciating lockdown today.  If.... The what if’s can go on forever but we have what we have and going forward I think the majority of us are willing to make changes to our behavior in order to return to an opening of our economy.  Very few of us are in the camp of, “I can cough on whoever I want and be dammed if I’ll ever social distance or wear a mask...“ Very few of us are ready to stand toe to toe for the sexy legs contest at the ship pool, Florida  beach. But we’re also not ok sheltered in place for a year. 
 

I have a Disneyworld vacation with my dvc points and flights Booked for this summer.   I’d say there’s a less than 10% chance I’m going. It’s still fun to think about.  I’m not spewing anger towards Disney for allowing folks to plan vacations that might not happen. Same with cruises.  Had I taken the cruise back in March I would have spent the $.  In my mind that was money already spent.  For me, taking that already spent $ and placing it on a couple different really nice Haven suites at prices I felt reasonable was a fun decision.  If I get to Disney World this year but it’s vastly different than previous visits I’m ok with that as long as I’m reasonably safe.   Same with cruises I’m booked on for next year. Tsa lines and flying actually scare me more than getting on a ship. 

Hi little lulu.  I sure am glad we took that Med cruise when we did!  Hope you all are well

[TSUmom]

12 hours ago, Outerdog said:

 

Sorry, "have faith" is no different than "if" or "but" -- full of optimism with no foundation whatsoever. 

Faith is the foundation!

[Royals Carol]

I'm just praying that not only NCL but other businesses as well, survive. I feel the cruise industry will survive and I feel there will be a vaccine for Covid-19, sooner than later. I'm trying to stay positive. My husband and I have a cruise planned for the Joy in November for our 25 year Anniversary. Fingers crossed..

[Charles4515]

Hmmm... I always thought that faith is confidence in what we believe and the assurance that the Lord is working, even though we cannot see it. Faith knows that no matter what the situation, in our lives or someone else’s, that the Lord is working in it.  And faith is built upon a foundation of many millennia. JMHO

Good luck with that. I have no confidence in faith. I will go with science.


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[vpearlkc]

4 hours ago, djkolp said:

There are currently no treatments or vaccine for Covid-19.  These are undisputed facts.  They are very easy to find. 

 

The mortality rates from Covid-19 as of May 7th.

 U.S.= 5.97%    Spain=11.73%   Italy=13.84%   U.K.=14.89   France=14.81%   Germany=4.32%

 

I don't think these stats are accurate and we will have no way of knowing for sure until universal testing is in place so we have some idea of how many have been infected. I know of at least one person who got sick with a lot of the symptoms, didn't seek treatment because it didn't seem so bad or get tested and recovered. It is said that 80% of the infected show very mild or no symptoms so don't get tested. Just some thoughts.

[brovol]

I have noticed that folks who preach "we need to go with the science" tend to prefer one version of the "science" over another. Such "belief" isn't in "the science", but rather "the politics".  It will be interesting when governors "reopen" businesses, restaurants and other things fully.  My prediction is that those people who are so passionate about everyone wearing masks, and do in fact wear one themselves, will go from wearing it one day, to taking it off the next day, as if the governors orders somehow changed the "risk" or cleared the danger which allegedly existed the day before.  

 

The facts are still yet to be determined in terms of the seriousness of COVID-19.  How sad it is that economies throughout the world and the United States have suffered, and people have suffered (physically and otherwise) from secondary effects of this virus.  How much sadder it will be though if this virus wasn't really nearly as "deadly" as the "experts" and "media experts" said it was, and most (if not all) of this could have been avoided. 

[boatseller]

Ayayayay....NCL isn't going anywhere.  Neither are Carnival, Royal, Disney, MSC etc.  Remember...

 

There was nothing structurally wrong with these companies before the ccv.  Hence, investors are willing to bet on their long term prospects.  This isn't that complicated.  This sky-is-falling attitude is based on very simplistic understandings of markets and finance.  Government filings are designed to disclose the legal minimum and avoid getting sued.

 

No one gives a second thought to noro, influenza, legionnaires etc and for most, the ccv is turning out to be less of an issue.  If you are at risk, don't cruise, but also don't lecture those who do.

[Charles4515]

I have noticed that folks who preach "we need to go with the science" tend to prefer one version

 

All those words and you didn’t say anything. Except you probably are the one with politics.

 

 

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[brovol]

18 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

All those words and you didn’t say anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

And because you sit and post here all day, every day, what you say comes from a burning bush?   LOL.

 

Since you have such wisdom I probably don't need to tell you that "didn't say anything" means I did say something.  So thanks for the acknowledgement. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by brovol

[Charles4515]

And because you sit and post here all day, every day, what you say comes from a burning bush?   LOL.

 

Since you have such wisdom I probably don't need to tell you that "didn't say anything" means I did say something.  So thanks for the acknowledgement. 

 

Some get so upset that their favorite businesses are not doing well and may might not stay around. It may be difficult to process that NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean are not necessity’s. There are no guarantees. I have seen many companies come and go.

 

 

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[vpearlkc]

53 minutes ago, brovol said:

I have noticed that folks who preach "we need to go with the science" tend to prefer one version of the "science" over another. Such "belief" isn't in "the science", but rather "the politics".  It will be interesting when governors "reopen" businesses, restaurants and other things fully.  My prediction is that those people who are so passionate about everyone wearing masks, and do in fact wear one themselves, will go from wearing it one day, to taking it off the next day, as if the governors orders somehow changed the "risk" or cleared the danger which allegedly existed the day before.  

 

The facts are still yet to be determined in terms of the seriousness of COVID-19.  How sad it is that economies throughout the world and the United States have suffered, and people have suffered (physically and otherwise) from secondary effects of this virus.  How much sadder it will be though if this virus wasn't really nearly as "deadly" as the "experts" and "media experts" said it was, and most (if not all) of this could have been avoided. 

If not for science I would not have been born. If not for science most people over 45 would be dead. If not for science humanity would still be in the stone age. If not for science, god forbid there would be no cruises   or forums to argue about them on.

[Corliss]

7 hours ago, djkolp said:

There are currently no treatments or vaccine for Covid-19.  These are undisputed facts.  They are very easy to find. 

 

The mortality rates from Covid-19 as of May 7th.

 U.S.= 5.97%    Spain=11.73%   Italy=13.84%   U.K.=14.89   France=14.81%   Germany=4.32%

 

 

https://app.sermo.com/covid19-barometer?utm_campaign=wwwsermo_covid19

 

Sermo's COVID-19 Real Time Barometer

The COVID-19 Real Time Barometer Study provides exclusive access into the perspectives and expertise of over 20,000 total physicians across 30 countries, tracked over time.

5/7 Results: 55% of global physicians use Hydroxychloroquine, 24% use Tocilizumab, 21% use Remdesivir, and 17% use Plasma.

 

Assume the below listed drugs are ALL available in your setting (even if they currently are not). We’d like to know more about which drugs you would use for a specific patient type. Consider a patient with moderate to severe symptoms (in the hospital but not in the ICU). What are the drugs you would use for this patient?

Oxygen

62%

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil), Chloroquine, other anti-malarials

60%

Azithromycin or similar antibiotics

56%

Anti-clotting / anticoagulants

46%

Steroids

39%

Remdesivir

36%

Plasma from patients who have recovered from COVID-19 (convalescent plasma)

33%

Tocilizumab (Actemra)

33%

Anti-HIV drugs (e.g. Lopinavir plus Ritonavir – Kaletra)

27%

Vitamin C tablet

23%

Zinc

21%

Vitamin C infused

20%

Vitamin D tablet

17%

Gamma Globulin

17%

Oseltamivir (Tamiflu)

14%

Vitamin D infused

12%

Interferon-beta

12%

Blood pressure / norepinephrine

10%

Favipiravir (Avigan)

10%

Traditional Chinese medicine

10%

Acyclovir

9%

OTC cold and flu medication

8%

Sarilumab (Kevzara)

6%

Ivermectin

6%

Colchicine

5%

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/METAHCQ-ABSTRACT.pdf
Conclusion A meta-analysis of available reports demonstrates that chloroquine derivatives are effective to improve clinical and biological outcomes but, more importantly, it reduces mortality by a factor of 2 to 3 in patients infected with COVID-19. 

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/
To date: 3,248 patients have been treated with 3 or more days with hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin and 17 have died.

 

[loungelady55]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:57 AM, david_sobe said:

Well you are being negative and projecting on to me.   I have over 6000+ posts here on CC while you have only 96.  I love cruising more than anyone.  Go on vacation.  But don't burden the rest of society with your complaints of being stranded, getting sick, quarantined, and not getting refunds.  We just went through that cycle and you will be begging those you claim as being "negative" to come rescue you.

Its sad when reality makes you think negatively.  "I will go have a vacation"  Good, that is exactly what NCL was telling customers 2 months ago.  Nothing has changed.  Perhaps you should call NCL and ask them why they are being so negative and not sailing 🤭

Well you got me.  

[lanceholt]

5 hours ago, brovol said:

I have noticed that folks who preach "we need to go with the science" tend to prefer one version of the "science" over another. Such "belief" isn't in "the science", but rather "the politics".  It will be interesting when governors "reopen" businesses, restaurants and other things fully.  My prediction is that those people who are so passionate about everyone wearing masks, and do in fact wear one themselves, will go from wearing it one day, to taking it off the next day, as if the governors orders somehow changed the "risk" or cleared the danger which allegedly existed the day before.  

 

The facts are still yet to be determined in terms of the seriousness of COVID-19.  How sad it is that economies throughout the world and the United States have suffered, and people have suffered (physically and otherwise) from secondary effects of this virus.  How much sadder it will be though if this virus wasn't really nearly as "deadly" as the "experts" and "media experts" said it was, and most (if not all) of this could have been avoided. 

Death rates say otherwise.

 

[djkolp]

5 hours ago, vpearlkc said:

I don't think these stats are accurate and we will have no way of knowing for sure until universal testing is in place so we have some idea of how many have been infected. I know of at least one person who got sick with a lot of the symptoms, didn't seek treatment because it didn't seem so bad or get tested and recovered. It is said that 80% of the infected show very mild or no symptoms so don't get tested. Just some thoughts.

The mortality rates and more are tracked by John Hopkins University Medical Center. The figures shown are only as accurate as the data that is provided. I have heard claims of under reporting and over reporting. With testing occurring in only a small percentage of the U.S. population, the values given will certainly change as more testing becomes available. If ever. COVID-19 does appear to affect people differently, but with 74,000+ deaths in the U.S. so far, it is quite deadly. And these deaths occurred with a nationwide stay at home orders in effect. It is definitely not just the “flu.”
 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

[brovol]

5 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Some get so upset that their favorite businesses are not doing well and may might not stay around. It may be difficult to process that NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean are not necessity’s. There are no guarantees. I have seen many companies come and go.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

And....?  Don't get your point, or your criticism of my post.  

 

Lets move on though.

[brovol]

1 hour ago, lanceholt said:

Death rates say otherwise.

 

Actually , no they don't.  The reality is that the death rates have been based on an incredibly gross underestimation of the number of people who had contracted the virus, which is understandable in light of the fact that so many people who have it don't suffer symptoms, or suffer very mild symptoms.  Newer estimations based on more insightful and accurate data provide a clearer picture of death rates.  The more we know, the lower the death rates get. (And it seems that's very high percentage of the deaths are people who are already very sick, health compromised, or otherwise with a very low life expectancy, for lack of a nicer way of putting it).   Many bonafide "experts" are concluding that covid-19 mortality rates are no more than other flu viruses.  Is that accurate?  I don't know.  But on the other hand, it sure looks like this thing hasn't been, and isn't worth shutting down the universe, and simply accept the consequences (which might be far worse than if we did nothing). This seems particularly true when all of the "experts" agree that the only solution is 70% of the population becoming immune, which unless we get a vaccine, will happen only after we get the virus (which for most people wouldn't be a huge deal).  So if "herd immunity" is the solution, lets get on with it.

[littlelulu01]

17 hours ago, TSUmom said:

Hi little lulu.  I sure am glad we took that Med cruise when we did!  Hope you all are well

Wasn’t that an incredible vacation.  I remember writing a port review and the only negative (pre covid) was all the passengers who were sick yet still going on tour busses... I hope crew will be  enforcing a quarantine of sick passengers from now on.  It will be a welcome change and make cruises a little less stressful for those of us that were not crazy about fellow passengers germ spreading habits even before covid-19.
 

We spent quite a long time planning for that sailing, which was half the fun.  I’m hoping to be cruising next spring.  Stay well friend.