Ignoring CDC Cruise regulations

[sandebeach]

28 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Yes it's very confusing. The way I see it it's in two parts -- NSO plan is complete, accurate, signed and good to go for general sailings.  The Green category on the chart is for crew allowed to travel commercially. 

I am wondering if Bahamas Paradise was set to restart their cruises to Grand Bahamas but learned through recent discussions with the Bahamas that Bahamas was going to stop international flights and passenger vessels, except for Canada, UK and EU. 

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

I am wondering if Bahamas Paradise was set to restart their cruises to Grand Bahamas but learned through recent discussions with the Bahamas that Bahamas was going to stop international flights and passenger vessels, except for Canada, UK and EU. 

 

Yes that and also the negative covid-19 tests required of all cruise passengers must have driven them to voluntarily postpone sailings.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, Biker19 said:

The more I read that the more I think the CDC language refers to the BP's plan for crew changes part of the NSO and not the passenger portion - the chart is part of the crew change web page.

 

8 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Yes it's very confusing. The way I see it it's in two parts -- NSO plan is complete, accurate, signed and good to go for general sailings.  The Green category on the chart is for crew allowed to travel commercially. 

If you look at the footnotes for the "color code" chart, you will see a definition of "provisionally green", which all ships that are color coded green are shown as, except BPCL.  The green color code means that they have met the requirements for "green status" for crew changes, but the "provisional" notation shows that their NSO plan has not been approved.  Only BPCL does not have the "provisional" attachment,  meaning their NSO plan has been approved.

 

While foreign flag, BPCL crew are reportedly mainly Bahamian or US residents (Green Card or work visa), so this may have some moderating factor on what the NSO plan requires (local hospitals may be more receptive to US residents that fall ill), and the small size of the line and its ships makes it easier to negotiate contracts for health care with local authorities.

 

To the OP's question, since the CDC is part of the US government, the US government would not just say "ignore the CDC and go ahead and cruise".  Secondly, the CDC has essentially final word on whether a ship can enter a US port, for health reasons.  When a ship reaches a port, it applies for "clearance", which must come from CBP (immigration and customs), USPH/CDC (health), and USCG (security, and overall authority over ports).  Without all of these approvals, the ship is not allowed to enter port and embark/disembark passengers, so no ports of call, or home porting in the US would be allowed.  As for cruises elsewhere in the world, the CDC has no authority over either the cruise or the ability of passengers to go on those cruises, though they do have the authority to keep someone who cruised from re-entering the US, if it is felt there is a health risk.

Edited July 20, 2020 by chengkp75

[time4u2go]

8 hours ago, Biker19 said:

The more I read that the more I think the CDC language refers to the BP's plan for crew changes part of the NSO and not the passenger portion - the chart is part of the crew change web page.

According to @chengkp75, it's not just crew changes, it's for passenger cruises:

 

 

[Biker19]

44 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If you look at the footnotes for the "color code" chart, you will see a definition of "provisionally green", which all ships that are color coded green are shown as, except BPCL.  The green color code means that they have met the requirements for "green status" for crew changes, but the "provisional" notation shows that their NSO plan has not been approved.  Only BPCL does not have the "provisional" attachment,  meaning their NSO plan has been approved.

That's all well and good but the only mention of passengers on the whole page is under this:

 

Quote

A response plan under the No Sail Order that is complete and accurate

• This does not mean ships are allowed to resume passenger travel, but rather that they have met CDC’s requirements to provide a safe environment for crew members to work and to disembark crew safely by non-commercial travel.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Biker19

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

That's all well and good but the only mention of passengers on the whole page is under this:

 

The bottom line is that they pushed their sailings back to August 28 (CDC or not) and now with the Bahamas officially declaring yesterday that Americans are not allowed on the island except for private craft, they will probably push August 28 back as well unless they find another port that accepts Americans. 

 

Canadians and EU citizens are allowed in the Bahamas but they would have to get to Palm Beach first which doesn't look promising as the Canadian border is closed to all except essential travel.  EU citizens are barred from the US except for students on student visas so no customers would mean no sailings.  A lot of things need to happen as well as the CDC for any one line to resume. 

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Bahamas-Officially-Closes-Borders-to-Americans

[WpgCruise]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

 

 

Canadians and EU citizens are allowed in the Bahamas but they would have to get to Palm Beach first which doesn't look promising as the Canadian border is closed to all except essential travel.  

Can you expand on this please?  I don't understand why Canadians and E.U. citizens would need to connect through Palm Beach to get to the Bahamas.

 

I've flown direct from Toronto to Nassau  many times and seen European airlines at the gate in Nassau 

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, WpgCruise said:

Can you expand on this please?  I don't understand why Canadians and E.U. citizens would need to connect through Palm Beach to get to the Bahamas.

 

I've flown direct from Toronto to Nassau  many times and seen European airlines at the gate in Nassau 

 

We were discussing Bahamas Paradise Lines which cruises out of Palm Beach to the Bahamas.   The Bahamas announced a ban on US travelers to the island so the only passengers BPL could take over there (if when they sail the ports are still closed to Americans) are Canadians, EU and UK citizens (not those not banned for now).  The cruises leave out of the Port of Palm Beach -- I was not referring to air travel in this instance.  

[coffeebean]

On 7/19/2020 at 12:31 PM, HicksRA said:

This from CDC.gov. Makes you wonder what the actual ratio of COVID-19 cases are compared to positive test results. Are we being duped? 
 

This is regarding test for antibodies. What this is saying is that a positive test for antibodies could mean you have antibodies for a common cold? These tests can not determine the difference between Covid-19 or the common cold? Oh, my goodness!

Edited July 20, 2020 by coffeebean

[Baron Barracuda]

USA Today posted a piece on how cruise ships cause community spread.  Ties in CDC order.  Very negative.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/20/cruises-amplify-scatter-covid-19-spread-risk-per-cdc-official/5457585002/

[ECCruise]

42 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

USA Today posted a piece on how cruise ships cause community spread.  Ties in CDC order.  Very negative.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/20/cruises-amplify-scatter-covid-19-spread-risk-per-cdc-official/5457585002/

If it is very negative, it's because of the facts of the situation are negative..

Very balanced.  The facts of the previous outbreaks.  The CDC position.  And the CLIA position.

[Jenjer]

I think every single one of us wants to cruise again and cruise soon. But we also want to be safe and healthy. We want what we had in 2019. Cruising has always had its health risks so does going to a football game or out to a club. Unfortunately the data released looks like  they can not control the spread with only staff onboard. I don't see cruises happening again out of US ports until a vaccine comes out.  

 

Cruise Lines have to appeal to not only devoted fans but also new cruisers. They have to be or at least appear to be safe. 

[npcl]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:31 AM, HicksRA said:

This from CDC.gov. Makes you wonder what the actual ratio of COVID-19 cases are compared to positive test results. Are we being duped? 
 

you are confusing the two different tests. The one use to see if someone is currently I'll and is used for case counts in most places is a pcr test.

 

the one you quoted is for an antibody test to see if you may have had it and now have antibodies for in.

 

PCR is prone to false negatives

 

Antibody tests are prone, as the cdc mentioned, to false positives.

[John Reid]

3 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

USA Today posted a piece on how cruise ships cause community spread.  Ties in CDC order.  Very negative.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/20/cruises-amplify-scatter-covid-19-spread-risk-per-cdc-official/5457585002/

 

Can't be helped when the truth is negative. Can't be helped when facts are really facts. Not facing the truth earlier is why we are in a deep hole.

Edited July 21, 2020 by John Reid
Addition

[beerman2]

Back to the original post "Ignoring CDC cruise regulations ", just a wild,  no make that an educated guess the cruise lines would pay dearly.  If people think the CDC isn't playing fair, I'm not one of those, test them when sailings begin. 

 

It would get ugly real fast for the cruise industry.