Havana to become a homeport for the Braemar

[WeeCountyMan]

On 9/11/2020 at 8:30 PM, ScottishMaid said:

US citizens are not allowed by the US government to travel to Cuba. Thus no Americans could board or disembark at Havana.


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I don't think it's quite as straightforward a black and white scenario as that.

 

A US passport is legal and accepted in Cuba.

 

Travel restrictions etc. are all imposed by US government - but I don't think there is anything to prevent a US national going to Cuba via another country, or off a non American cruise ship.

 

https://www.viahero.com/travel-to-cuba/travel-to-cuba-with-a-us-passport

 

[tring]

3 hours ago, Sue from Canada said:

I beg to differ.  Once Cuba opens up its borders to travellers again, Americans can travel there again.  We Canadians have been travelling to Cuba for years and they love us.

 

Indeed yes, Canadians have always been big travellers to Cuba and I quite understand that as Canadians, you are Americans.  Sadly the term 'American' over her is very often used when people from the USA is the intended meaning.  We are all totally wrong in that and I also plead guilty at times, despite having Canadian relatives In fact we enjoyed a zoom call with my brother and his Canadian (+ a few US) extended family on Sunday to mark my brother's 80th birthday.

 

The restrictions as far as I understood pre Obama was that US folk cannot spend money in Cuba, so travel could be looked upon as something needed spending.  We have been there three times and also travelled on a ship that was originally run by a Canadian company.  In fact, before we travelled, Obama's 'people to people' scheme came in and there were a large number of people on that scheme on the ship when we travelled.  Their scheme was run on an all inclusive basis regards the whole program, including tours etc., so all the money was paid to whoever was running that version of the scheme.  There always were a few US passengers on that Canadian ship (and also people taking land holidays), but they did travel via other countries as far as I understood.  It was said that with modern passports the US could easily track where people had been when out of the US (i.e. onward travel to/from Cuba), so they could be picked up and some were concerned about getting in trouble on their return, but it seems the administration at that time tended to turn a blind eye to such travel.  I gleaned that information from a combined roll call for all cruises on the ship we travelled on - there were identical weekly cruises from Havanna going around Cuba and calling at other parts of the Island.  The roll call was a very long, ongoing thread with lots of posters asking questions and discussing their travel arrangements etc, so I did see a lot of comments about that.

 

What the situation is now is possibly something different again and I have no up to date knowledge, but I do know Trump has severely reigned back from the Obama era.

 

Fred has pulled Cuba from two 'world' cruises on the new ships, so I do think it could be something to do with the US.  The ship's have been 'purchased' from Carnival, though in fact there seem to be only two big payments to be made in 3 and 4 years time. During that 5 year period it seems that such contracts tend to include something that means the ships will revert to Carnival if Fred goes bust and cannot complete the contract.  Hence I am wondering if the US link in that, will stop him taking those ships to Cuba during those 5 years.  My other thought is that as at least one of those long cruises is calling at ports in the US, so I am wondering if that may have a bearing on the situation, restriction travel between the US and Cuba, rather like there is with Argentina, if ship also wants to call at The Falklands.  Those two thoughts are just my speculation, but does seem strange Cuba has been pulled for those itineraries, yet plans have also changed for Braemar to using Havana as a turn around for a few cruises, so I do feel there is something affecting those changes.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by tring

[tring]

1 hour ago, WeeCountyMan said:

I don't think it's quite as straightforward a black and white scenario as that.

 

A US passport is legal and accepted in Cuba.

 

Travel restrictions etc. are all imposed by US government - but I don't think there is anything to prevent a US national going to Cuba via another country, or off a non American cruise ship.

 

https://www.viahero.com/travel-to-cuba/travel-to-cuba-with-a-us-passport

 

 

That is a Cuban website and any restrictions are not connected with Cuba, so certainly not illegal from a Cuban perspective as you say.  As far as legal to travel or not, from a US standpoint is concerned, I do not think that is necessarily the point.  I am sure that there are restrictions as far as the US Government is concerned, so there is the possibility of repercussions on US citizens who do travel there, but what they may be and if there is any way they can get around that in a foolproof way is another matter, though I do know risks were taken regards that pre (and during) the Obama era.  Even when Obama's "people to people" cultural exchanges were allowed, travel had to be on one of the approved schemes, which I mentioned in my previous post.  Hence just popping over there for a holiday (rather than a cultural exchange) was not allowed.  I do know Trump has made changes, but I do not know anything of the ins and outs of that.

 

I think a lot of confusion on this thread is that in the UK we regularly use the term 'American' when we mean people from the US.  This is particularly problematic when other Americans (i.e. Canadians) are also posting on the thread and, quite rightly, read the posts as referring to all Americans.  A British mistake, rather like the way as an English person, I have been known to use the word English, when I mean British, which of course is not right.  We do have some very bad habits, but habits are often difficult to break.

Edited September 29, 2020 by tring

[WeeCountyMan]

This young lady's experience tends to suggest that US citizens can travel to Cuba in practice.

 

https://www.adventurouskate.com/can-americans-travel-to-cuba/

 

If a passport entry stamp is optional - that makes it even less of an obstacle.

 

I was surprised to learn that the US maintains an Embassy in Havana - I thought they had broken off all diplomatic relations after the fall of Baptista in 1959. or perhaps the Bay of Pigs fiasco ?

 

As for "Americans" I've always thought of that as describing those living south of the 49th parallel - and those north were known as Canadians. I suspect that applies to the majority of people, and it's an unintentional mindset.

 

Being a Scot I'm used to the irritating use of England for the UK or Britain.

[Essiesmom]

President Trump stopped tourism to Cuba (at least via cruise ship) because he felt that all of the money going into Cuba was being passed on to fund the oppressive regime in Venezuela.  EM

[tring]

3 hours ago, WeeCountyMan said:

This young lady's experience tends to suggest that US citizens can travel to Cuba in practice.

 

https://www.adventurouskate.com/can-americans-travel-to-cuba/

 

If a passport entry stamp is optional - that makes it even less of an obstacle.

 

I was surprised to learn that the US maintains an Embassy in Havana - I thought they had broken off all diplomatic relations after the fall of Baptista in 1959. or perhaps the Bay of Pigs fiasco ?

 

As for "Americans" I've always thought of that as describing those living south of the 49th parallel - and those north were known as Canadians. I suspect that applies to the majority of people, and it's an unintentional mindset.

 

Being a Scot I'm used to the irritating use of England for the UK or Britain.

 

Interesting article which I read through and understood the majority of issues mentioned due to our Cuban visits.  It is obviously still the case that US folk are not allowed to spend in Cuba and if she could not have made reasonable excuses for the mention of Cuba on documentation passed to her bank, I suspect she could have been in deep water, though I also wonder if the bank just wanted to be seen to be making obligatory checks, rather than bothering too much about what happened.  She travelled via Mexico, which was always a commonly used route and she seemed to have other nationalities with her, which helped the cash problem.  Also interesting that the exchange rate for $US no longer seems to have the extra 10% premium charged, which was standard when we have visited.

 

She is obviously gaining financially from her posts, so makes it perhaps even more unclear about when her visit was - possibly before Trumps latest changes.  Must say our one night Casa Particulare stay in Vinales was not successful, but the tourist bus ran fine, but enough said about that.  We have visited a number of parts of the Island during different main hotel bases and short tours as well as the cruise and would also rate Vinales as the most touristy place we had been and did not like it. As an easy overnight or even day trip from Havana (2 hour drive) that is not surprising and is also why it seems to be the one other place she had visited.  For us the Cuban medical situation was the final crunch which makes it unlikely we would go again - lots of doctors and other medically related staff, but a lot of treatment is back in the fifties as they have little access to any modern medication, with the local people being far worse off regards that, compared to tourists who use a different system.

 

The US embassy in Havana was opened by Obama, along with an introduction to business links with Cuba, about the time of Obama's visit to Cuba, (which was about a week after one of our visits as was The Stones concert).  There was also a start to US investment, e.g. some hotels where planned to be refurbished in a partnership with Cuba and set to make a lot of cash if easing of US restraints had continued.  Many non US tourists became keen to visit at that time, before what they thought could be a big change if a lot of US tourist began to visit - hindsight is a wonderful thing......   I am not sure if the business links are still in place.  Most hotels in Cuba were always, (and probably still are), at least 50% owned by the Cuban Government, apart from the smaller ventures which became possible under Raul Castro (mainly family run B&B's and small family restaurants as we would understand them).

 

Interesting list of reasons visa's can be obtained.  I had known there was always some way US people with relatives in Cuba could visit and sounds like that is still possible with a visa - lots of folk from Florida have family links with Cuba.  Raul also opened up the possibility of travel abroad for Cuban people and also let them own property, which was not possible previously - that will only be for a very small number of Cubans though, as the cash would not be available to most.  It is not just ATM's and the internet that do not work in Cuba - we quite regularly found banks could not give money over the counter as their systems were down.  Having to wait up to an hour to get cash from a bank counter is a good sign as it means the system is working at that time, though does not mean it will still be working bu the time you get to the front of the queue!  🙂  There are lots of money scams etc. and also thefts from hotel safes as they all know tourists need to go there with a lot of cash in hand, even if their accommodation is pre paid.  A member of staff explaining how to set up your room safe, then turning their back when you set the code (but looking in a convenient mirror) is a common one.

 

The joys and fun of travel, I was thinking I was becoming too old for the more adventurous stuff, but a year confined as we are seems to have changed my view on that.

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by tring

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

President Trump stopped tourism to Cuba (at least via cruise ship) because he felt that all of the money going into Cuba was being passed on to fund the oppressive regime in Venezuela.  EM

 

Has not seemed to make a difference in Venezuela, but probably has had a negative impact upon the citizens of Cuba.  If so, the purpose was for what?   I suspect that we both know the answer for that question.