Mandatory vaccination

[HarpHarp]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Are there any significant differences between illnesses, hospitalizations, deaths between Florida and New York or California?

At the present time, both CA and FL have about the same # of confirmed COVID hospitalizations. Since CA has nearly double the population, that probaly is significant. New York & FL have about the same # of deaths. Check the Stats here. https://covidtracking.com/data/#state-ca

[coffeebean]

On 3/31/2021 at 5:49 PM, need2cruisesoon said:

 

Hmmm no side effects as the vaccine now as the vaccine population is still young.

 

But what happens years from now as people start to develop unexplained chronic illnesses,

I'm sure scientists and researchers will look back upon this time and wonder why people were so anxious to inject themselves with a vaccine that literally only took 6 months to get to market. Me i'm waiting on the sidelines until we know more.

 

The Spanish Flu petered out only after 2 years and w/o any vaccines.

It is estimated that 50 million people died globally of the Spanish Flu. Those numbers are frightening, given that the world's population was much less than it is now. It may have taken 2 years to "peter out" but that pandemic's casualties were epic.

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, StackSkipton said:

 

Cruise Ships and ports are governed by not just state law but Federal law as well. In any case, you could board the ship and then they could quarantine you in your cabin for rest of the trip once they left Florida waters and Governor DeSantis would have zero say over it. In same way, an aircraft that took off from Florida heading to Europe would not be excluded from any vaccine passport restrictions at destination because it started in Florida.

 

My guess is this executive order will specifically exclude interstate travel. If Cruise Lines get little cranky about it, they could always convince the CDC to require vaccine to cruise, once it's a federal regulation, state/local governments have zero say.

I honestly believe the CDC will require vaccines for all passengers and crew to board a cruise ship. There will be no convincing necessary from the cruise lines for the CDC to mandate vaccines.

 

My opinion, of course.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, eileeshb said:

I’m not sure that was the Moderna covid-19 specific vaccine, I know there were a few mRNA vaccine bases that went to testing early last year before the Covid-19 specific components were added in the summer. I also remember an Ebola-vaccine candidate being tested for effectiveness against covid, and SARS vaccine candidates as well. The work done developing Ebola and SARS vaccines formed a large part of the basis for the covid-19 vaccines. It was a large part of how the covid-19 vaccines were developed and tested so quickly. 

Yet, there are still people who insist that these mRNA vaccines were "rushed" and were developed quickly. This is a reason I hear over and over again on these forums for people refusing to be vaccinated. Why is it that these people refuse to understand that these mRNA vaccines have been in development for several years NOT months?

[JamieLogical]

15 hours ago, eileeshb said:

I’m not sure that was the Moderna covid-19 specific vaccine, I know there were a few mRNA vaccine bases that went to testing early last year before the Covid-19 specific components were added in the summer. I also remember an Ebola-vaccine candidate being tested for effectiveness against covid, and SARS vaccine candidates as well. The work done developing Ebola and SARS vaccines formed a large part of the basis for the covid-19 vaccines. It was a large part of how the covid-19 vaccines were developed and tested so quickly. 

 

Here is the article, dated March 17, 2020. It was definitely the start of the human trials for the Moderna vaccine that came to market. Specifically states SARS-CoV-2:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2020/03/17/first-person-injected-with-trial-coronavirus-vaccine-in-seattle/?sh=4c6ea40e2583

[teacherman]

They don't know because they are ignorant.  By my use of the term ignorant, I mean that they IGNORE many sources of information.  They hear one source of information (social media, one news show, one opinion commentator, one politician, etc) and that is what they believe.  Sometimes, people will hear something and say "why didn't I know this"?  Possibly because you chose to IGNORE various information sources because it takes time to do some research and then evaluate what you have heard.  Many people like to simply give their opinion without backing it up with sources of information.

 

And this has been MY opinion of why people choose to believe what they do about the development of these vaccines (and a lot of other things they believe).😇

[AstoriaPreppy]

43 minutes ago, teacherman said:

They don't know because they are ignorant.  By my use of the term ignorant, I mean that they IGNORE many sources of information.  They hear one source of information (social media, one news show, one opinion commentator, one politician, etc) and that is what they believe.  Sometimes, people will hear something and say "why didn't I know this"?  Possibly because you chose to IGNORE various information sources because it takes time to do some research and then evaluate what you have heard.  Many people like to simply give their opinion without backing it up with sources of information.

 
In social science, this is called "confirmation bias." The information one seeks out and consumes only validates their pre-existing beliefs.

In addition to the segmentation of media and long tail content sources, social media is a major factor in exacerbating confirmation bias (especially FB). The way FB makes more money is by figuring out what will keep you more engaged over a longer time, and they've spent billons figuring out exactly how to do this. There's a huge incentive for FB to figure out what your existing biases are, and then only deliver content that further validates those beliefs. 

[DCGuy64]

5 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

There's a huge incentive for FB to figure out what your existing biases are, and then only deliver content that further validates those beliefs. 

Truer words were never spoken. Thank you. (FYI I got off Facebook 5 months ago and this was one of the reasons, but not the main one). Thanks again.

[latebloomer56]

2 hours ago, teacherman said:

They don't know because they are ignorant.  By my use of the term ignorant, I mean that they IGNORE many sources of information.  They hear one source of information (social media, one news show, one opinion commentator, one politician, etc) and that is what they believe.  Sometimes, people will hear something and say "why didn't I know this"?  Possibly because you chose to IGNORE various information sources because it takes time to do some research and then evaluate what you have heard.  Many people like to simply give their opinion without backing it up with sources of information.

 

And this has been MY opinion of why people choose to believe what they do about the development of these vaccines (and a lot of other things they believe).😇

Myself I will wait for my TA to tell me we need the vaccine to cruise, she will get that information from NCL before I do. As for the vaccine I do not even get a flu shot but if it means cruising then I will bend and do what I need to do, but only after talking to my Dr. as she knows what is the best course for me. I find the choices simple enough even for me :).

Stay safe people.

 

[eileeshb]

2 hours ago, latebloomer56 said:

Myself I will wait for my TA to tell me we need the vaccine to cruise, she will get that information from NCL before I do. As for the vaccine I do not even get a flu shot but if it means cruising then I will bend and do what I need to do, but only after talking to my Dr. as she knows what is the best course for me. I find the choices simple enough even for me :).

Stay safe people.

 

I’m usually advised not to get the flu vaccine by my doctor but when swine flu came along he decided the risk from that virus was worse than the risk of my reaction to the vaccine so I got the flu vaccine that year. 
Same logic partially applies for covid but with the added offset of the mRNA vaccines being less likely to trigger a reaction for me.

Unfortunately the vaccine roll out here in Ireland has turned into an unholy mess with the authorities not considering underlying conditions when dictating *which* covid vaccine you’re scheduled for. If you don’t take the one offered you don’t get a vaccine (in theory)... but then there’s healthcare workers being scheduled vaccine appointments despite already being fully vaccinated. officially until the end of May the only people getting vaccinated here are frontline workers, people in residential care homes, over 65s and those with severe underlying conditions. 

[RocketMan275]

On 4/1/2021 at 8:27 PM, coffeebean said:

Yet, there are still people who insist that these mRNA vaccines were "rushed" and were developed quickly. This is a reason I hear over and over again on these forums for people refusing to be vaccinated. Why is it that these people refuse to understand that these mRNA vaccines have been in development for several years NOT months?

That isn't the issue.  There are those who, for lack of a better word, are anti-vaxxers.  They are firmly convinced that a person with a healthy immune system does not need any vaccinations.  The mRNA-rushed is just one of their excuses and something they say to convince others to join them in their cult.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/1/2021 at 4:05 PM, HarpHarp said:

At the present time, both CA and FL have about the same # of confirmed COVID hospitalizations. Since CA has nearly double the population, that probaly is significant. New York & FL have about the same # of deaths. Check the Stats here. https://covidtracking.com/data/#state-ca

And, the population of Florida tends to be older so that is probably also significant.

BTW, just returned from a weekend in Panama Beach City Florida.  Very few, less than one in twenty, wearing masks.  The resort we stayed out said they required their employees to wear masks but couldn't require guests.  Went out to dinner twice.  Same thing.  I didn't see a single body laying in the street.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/1/2021 at 4:05 PM, HarpHarp said:

At the present time, both CA and FL have about the same # of confirmed COVID hospitalizations. Since CA has nearly double the population, that probaly is significant. New York & FL have about the same # of deaths. Check the Stats here. https://covidtracking.com/data/#state-ca

Probably not significant.

 

California's population is 39,747,267.  Cases from your website  3,501,394.

Florida's population is  21,646,155.  Cases from your website 1,909,209.  

California cases per capita:  0.08809.

Florida cases per capita:  0.08866. 

Hardly a significant difference.  

 

Now is the economic and social hardships imposed by California worth that 0.00057?  

[linz98144]

Curious how cruise lines will check for vaccinations? 

Some people got cards, others got a receipt, some got neither, some took photos, some were told not to take photos, and some have already lost or ruined whatever piece of paper they were given. 

There is no vaccine passport, so will this just be a checklist/ honor system thing? 

[ColeThornton]

8 minutes ago, linz98144 said:

Curious how cruise lines will check for vaccinations? 

Some people got cards, others got a receipt, some got neither, some took photos, some were told not to take photos, and some have already lost or ruined whatever piece of paper they were given. 

There is no vaccine passport, so will this just be a checklist/ honor system thing? 

 

 

No one knows at this point what EXACTLY will happen or be expected on this issue.  Lots of speculation going on.  We'll find out eventually.  As we used to fondly say in the military, "stand by to stand by".   🙂

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

No one knows at this point what EXACTLY will happen or be expected on this issue.  Lots of speculation going on.  We'll find out eventually.  As we used to fondly say in the military, "stand by to stand by".   🙂

Or, as we used to say in Korea:  "Stand by for a Stand By Meeting, there Maybe a Maybe."

 

Our battalion actually had a three page SOP on what to do if the battalion command group called a "Stand By Meeting" detailing where to gather, uniform, number of pens and pencils, etc., etc.  Very screwed up battalion where the only objective was ensuring the battalion commander made O-6.

Edited April 5, 2021 by RocketMan275

[HarpHarp]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Probably not significant.

 

California's population is 39,747,267.  Cases from your website  3,501,394.

Florida's population is  21,646,155.  Cases from your website 1,909,209.  

California cases per capita:  0.08809.

Florida cases per capita:  0.08866. 

Hardly a significant difference.  

 

Now is the economic and social hardships imposed by California worth that 0.00057?  

Cases is not the sane as hospitalizations, which is what I said. Number of cases is way too dependent on the amount of testing. Cases requiring hospitalization is a much more precise measure.
Florida was the source of the first major outbreak in my state last year during spring break As an old medical researcher, I called the Governor's office here March 4th to inquire about in state testing to prevent  such an accurence. Of course that wasn't done & the virus had spread too much anyhow,

 

[RocketMan275]

15 hours ago, HarpHarp said:

Cases is not the sane as hospitalizations, which is what I said. Number of cases is way too dependent on the amount of testing. Cases requiring hospitalization is a much more precise measure.
Florida was the source of the first major outbreak in my state last year during spring break As an old medical researcher, I called the Governor's office here March 4th to inquire about in state testing to prevent  such an accurence. Of course that wasn't done & the virus had spread too much anyhow,

 

Doubtful because cases requiring hospitalization measures only cases severe enough for hospital care while total cases measures the extent of infections.

[HarpHarp]

44 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Doubtful because cases requiring hospitalization measures only cases severe enough for hospital care while total cases measures the extent of infections.

You can't get an accurate  measure of the extent of infection unless you test the the entire population in an area. a combination of PCR and antibody tests would give some idea of the extent of the infection over time. Somewhere upwards of 30% of those infected are asymptomatic or have such mild symptoms they wouldn't even get tested, so hospitalizations are key.
Here is the latest from FL.  
 

On average, the Florida Department of Health has reported about 5,424 infections and 75 deaths per day over the past seven days. It can take officials up to two weeks to confirm and report a coronavirus-related death, meaning the number of deaths added does not necessarily reflect the number of people who died the previous day.

The health department processed more than 93,000 tests on Friday, reporting a daily positivity rate of about 6.3 percent.

New York with a much lower  positivity rate
 

• Test Results Reported - 150,225
• Total Positive - 6,583
• Percent Positive - 4.38%
• Patient Hospitalization - 4,434 (+61)
• 7-Day Average Percent Positive - 3.57

[agrimm01]

8 minutes ago, HarpHarp said:

You can't get an accurate  measure of the extent of infection unless you test the the entire population in an area. a combination of PCR and antibody tests would give some idea of the extent of the infection over time. Somewhere upwards of 30% of those infected are asymptomatic or have such mild symptoms they wouldn't even get tested, so hospitalizations are key.
Here is the latest from FL.  
 

On average, the Florida Department of Health has reported about 5,424 infections and 75 deaths per day over the past seven days. It can take officials up to two weeks to confirm and report a coronavirus-related death, meaning the number of deaths added does not necessarily reflect the number of people who died the previous day.

The health department processed more than 93,000 tests on Friday, reporting a daily positivity rate of about 6.3 percent.

New York with a much lower  positivity rate
 

• Test Results Reported - 150,225
• Total Positive - 6,583
• Percent Positive - 4.38%
• Patient Hospitalization - 4,434 (+61)
• 7-Day Average Percent Positive - 3.57

It seems like the best thing to look at would be "# of deaths per 100,000"

New York: 258

Ohio: 159

Florida: 157

California: 151

 

Seems to me like Florida has fared much better than the other states since they have been open and have an older population and without an overbearing fearmongering Governor for the last year.

[HarpHarp]

7 minutes ago, agrimm01 said:

It seems like the best thing to look at would be "# of deaths per 100,000"

New York: 258

Ohio: 159

Florida: 157

California: 151

 

Seems to me like Florida has fared much better than the other states since they have been open and have an older population and without an overbearing fearmongering Governor for the last year.

This is cumulative over the last 13 months and really is not a good indicator for future activities. The currrent testing positivity rate and current hospitalizations tell you if you want to travel to a certain area. New York and other NE states got bombarded early when we had not much idea of the most effective way to treat this virus. The virus strain there came from Europe when we weren't even looking in that direction. 
If you want to look at states with effective programs,  look  at Washington & Oregon, where the first cases were diagnosed. They have 69 and 57 deaths per 100K .  Dr. Chu fought for weeks with the CDC to be able to test samples she had already collected, & finally did it without permission, finding the first case of community spread.
I booked 2 cruises for next year, not leaving from Florida by my choice. I will keep an eye on the homeports as we get closer to departure.

[graphicguy]

On 4/2/2021 at 9:31 AM, DCGuy64 said:

Truer words were never spoken. Thank you. (FYI I got off Facebook 5 months ago and this was one of the reasons, but not the main one). Thanks again.

LOL!  As soon as I hear someone say or quote something from someone on FB, or Twitter, or another social outlet, I know it's not to be taken seriously.  Funny how all the experts seem to arrive on FB to spout their "learned" opinion.

 

Anyway, even YouTube has some folks, who purport to be "cruse experts" that do nothing but espouse some sort of expertise about cruise requirements, when all they're doing is trying to up their eyeball and subscriber count.  I don't watch those anymore, either.

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

LOL!  As soon as I hear someone say or quote something from someone on FB, or Twitter, or another social outlet, I know it's not to be taken seriously.  Funny how all the experts seem to arrive on FB to spout their "learned" opinion.

 

Anyway, even YouTube has some folks, who purport to be "cruse experts" that do nothing but espouse some sort of expertise about cruise requirements, when all they're doing is trying to up their eyeball and subscriber count.  I don't watch those anymore, either.

Yes, I follow several cruise "experts" on YouTube like Emma Cruises, Tips for Travellers, Cruising with Ben and David and a few others. Some people on Cruise Critic are suspicious of them because *shock* they just want cruising to return to normal. (oh, the horror!)

LOL😂🤣

[graphicguy]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yes, I follow several cruise "experts" on YouTube like Emma Cruises, Tips for Travellers, Cruising with Ben and David and a few others. Some people on Cruise Critic are suspicious of them because *shock* they just want cruising to return to normal. (oh, the horror!)

LOL😂🤣

I like EMMA.  I watch all of her videos.  She's reliable with her information and she's not dramatic.  Not familiar with the other one you mentioned.  I used to watch Jim Zim, too.  But, he's more into other topics these days.

 

I'll catch EECC channel too.  

 

That said, not a whole lot to VLOG about regarding cruises.  So, a lot of them have gone in a different direction.

[agrimm01]

2 hours ago, HarpHarp said:

This is cumulative over the last 13 months and really is not a good indicator for future activities. The currrent testing positivity rate and current hospitalizations tell you if you want to travel to a certain area. New York and other NE states got bombarded early when we had not much idea of the most effective way to treat this virus. The virus strain there came from Europe when we weren't even looking in that direction. 
If you want to look at states with effective programs,  look  at Washington & Oregon, where the first cases were diagnosed. They have 69 and 57 deaths per 100K .  Dr. Chu fought for weeks with the CDC to be able to test samples she had already collected, & finally did it without permission, finding the first case of community spread.
I booked 2 cruises for next year, not leaving from Florida by my choice. I will keep an eye on the homeports as we get closer to departure.

I think it's a great indicator for future activities.  It pretty much shows that shutting your economy down like NY, California and Ohio did over the last year doesn't really make you any safer from dying than having businesses open.