Vaccine Requirement News

[LeeRB]

Let me throw a little more mud into this discussion. It appears to me that a fair amount of the discussion seems to be revolving around US laws and the legality of requiring a vaccination to be able to sail. Where is it illegal for a company to mandate access requirements to enter their property, the US, The Bahamas, St Maarten, Singapore or maybe the EU? I haven’t heard more than a few cricket chirps out of the CDC for months now about cruising; and I am beginning to believe some of the comments I have seen in a few threads and news articles on CC and other places which question if the CDC actually wants cruising to resume in the US.

 

I don’t believe the CDC or the US Government has jurisdiction over non-US flagged ships, sailing in non-US waters, from non-US homeports and visiting all non-US POC’s. From what I have seen lately it appears that some of the major lines are planning to start cruising again as early as this summer, regardless of CDC guidance or lack thereof, by home porting ships to Caribbean ports NOT in US controlled jurisdictions; were the CDC and US Government codes have little or no impact on their activities. But will, unfortunately, increase the bottom line price for us because of the possibility of overnight stays at the Caribbean home ports, both before and after the cruise, and the airfare to and from to the off shore homeports. I also wonder how many courts in the US would even hear a case involving someone being denied boarding because they had not been vaccinated for COVID on a non-US ship sailing from a non-US port operating totally in non-US waters. I am also fairly sure, with the number of ‘ambulance chasers’ out there, someone will try.

 

 

[UPNYGuy]

I actually booked a cruise on EOTS sailing out of Baltimore for Feb 2022, primarily because they are requiring vaccinated pax on the first cruises. It was stated that the vaccine requirement was due to the destination they were sailing from and to. imho this will likely continue, and only vaccinated pax will be permitted to sail. 

[not-enough-cruising]

11 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

How will the vaccine requirements work with HIPPA in the US? I get that vaccine passports are a big help to get things going, but it also feels very invasive to ask. I’m thinking more along the lines of what does this open the door to?

HIPAA (corrected spelling) does not come into play with this at all. 
 

HIPAA really only applies to the sharing of protected health information (PHI) between medical providers and 3rd party insurers; in some cases. 
 

With regards to vaccine requirements, either you decide to provide proof, or you don’t; and let the consequences fall where they may. 

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, UPNYGuy said:

I actually booked a cruise on EOTS sailing out of Baltimore for Feb 2022, primarily because they are requiring vaccinated pax on the first cruises. It was stated that the vaccine requirement was due to the destination they were sailing from and to. imho this will likely continue, and only vaccinated pax will be permitted to sail. 

Let me rephrase... vaccinated pax for the cruises out of Nassau. 

[BecciBoo]

This apparently just in:  so there's your proof the vaccination does work.

Pfizer, Moderna COVID-19 vaccines cut infection risk by 90%, CDC study finds

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-infection-risk-cdc-study

[4774Papa]

2 hours ago, LeeRB said:

Let me throw a little more mud into this discussion. It appears to me that a fair amount of the discussion seems to be revolving around US laws and the legality of requiring a vaccination to be able to sail. Where is it illegal for a company to mandate access requirements to enter their property, the US, The Bahamas, St Maarten, Singapore or maybe the EU? I haven’t heard more than a few cricket chirps out of the CDC for months now about cruising; and I am beginning to believe some of the comments I have seen in a few threads and news articles on CC and other places which question if the CDC actually wants cruising to resume in the US.

 

 

 

I don’t believe the CDC or the US Government has jurisdiction over non-US flagged ships, sailing in non-US waters, from non-US homeports and visiting all non-US POC’s. From what I have seen lately it appears that some of the major lines are planning to start cruising again as early as this summer, regardless of CDC guidance or lack thereof, by home porting ships to Caribbean ports NOT in US controlled jurisdictions; were the CDC and US Government codes have little or no impact on their activities. But will, unfortunately, increase the bottom line price for us because of the possibility of overnight stays at the Caribbean home ports, both before and after the cruise, and the airfare to and from to the off shore homeports. I also wonder how many courts in the US would even hear a case involving someone being denied boarding because they had not been vaccinated for COVID on a non-US ship sailing from a non-US port operating totally in non-US waters. I am also fairly sure, with the number of ‘ambulance chasers’ out there, someone will try.

 

 

 

As a lawyer, I believe cruise lines can require vaccinations as a condition to board.  Of course, that was not my area of expertise, but I don't see a pathway for a successful lawsuit against the cruise lines.  Litigation can be expensive, especially if  your case looks like a loser.    We are looking forward to cruising once more and have our vaccinations.  We would be less inclined to cruise if no vaccinations were required.  

[UPNYGuy]

15 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

As a lawyer, I believe cruise lines can require vaccinations as a condition to board.  Of course, that was not my area of expertise, but I don't see a pathway for a successful lawsuit against the cruise lines.  Litigation can be expensive, especially if  your case looks like a loser.    We are looking forward to cruising once more and have our vaccinations.  We would be less inclined to cruise if no vaccinations were required.  

it would fall into the COVID-19 section of the contract of carriage. Royal Caribbean already has a decent section dedicated to COVID protocol. I would expect vaccination requirements to be included in there if it becomes a standard requirement, and I also feel they can require vaccination departing from US ports (they already are from Nassau), as it pertains to the health and welfare of all on board.
 

Furthermore, a cruise is *not* a mandatory undertaking, but staying healthy while you are onboard IS.  
 

Plus, certain ports of disembarkation may require it for the pax to leave the ship. 
 

Would I be correct in this thought?

Edited March 29, 2021 by UPNYGuy

[UPNYGuy]

17 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

As a lawyer, I believe cruise lines can require vaccinations as a condition to board.  

you have to show proof of vaccination to board the round trip itinerary that sails out of Nassau this summer. 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

Yikes!!  Asssuming this article is quoting him accurately, Gov. DeSantis intends to make it illegal for Florida private sector companies to require proof of vaccination.  I wonder if this will apply to cruise lines that operate in Florida?

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/29/gov-desantis-vows-to-ban-vaccine-passports-in-florida/

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

Yikes!!  Asssuming this article is quoting him accurately, Gov. DeSantis intends to make it illegal for Florida private sector companies to require proof of vaccination.  I wonder if this will apply to cruise lines that operate in Florida?

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/29/gov-desantis-vows-to-ban-vaccine-passports-in-florida/

 

The cruise lines are not Florida corporations.  They are incorporated in different countries, thus DeSantis can not dictate what they can or can not do.  I personally would feel more comfortable cruising on a fully vaccinated ship. 

[livingonthebeach]

Some people have taken to FB and Twitter to call a Boycott of RCI after announcing vaccination requirement:

https://www.businessinsider.com/social-media-facebok-twitter-for-royal-caribbean-cruise-boycott-2021-3?fbclid=IwAR1iU5p6f1QlSkJmrM5en4IrshygwaruArnUDER_A_7cWZIzNq7qd0BKLKs

[smokeybandit]

I'd like to know how many people who are actively "boycotting" actually would have otherwise booked one of those cruises if there was no vaccine mandate.

I'm guessing slim to none.

 

But I also call BS on the comment that the vaccinations are the country's requirement. If that was true, Bahamas would require a vaccine to enter the country.

[4774Papa]

15 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

Yikes!!  Asssuming this article is quoting him accurately, Gov. DeSantis intends to make it illegal for Florida private sector companies to require proof of vaccination.  I wonder if this will apply to cruise lines that operate in Florida?

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/29/gov-desantis-vows-to-ban-vaccine-passports-in-florida/

Some are opposed to government keeping records on everyone, such as vaccination records.  Not sure if DeSantis is opposed to this or any records, like the card you receive when you get the vaccine.

I think requiring a vaccine is proper for cruise lines, at least until COVID19 is under control, which will be several months, perhaps more.

 

The US Supreme Court has ruled that governments can require people to take vaccines.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-the-supreme-court-rules-on-vaccines-and-public-health

 

Certainly, most of remember having to get the smallpox and other vaccines before we attended school.

COVID19 spreads faster than most diseases, but the fatality rate is still very low.   I don't think the US government or states will mandate a vaccine.

 

Of course, this is different from a private business requiring a vaccine.

[not-enough-cruising]

22 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

Yikes!!  Asssuming this article is quoting him accurately, Gov. DeSantis intends to make it illegal for Florida private sector companies to require proof of vaccination.  I wonder if this will apply to cruise lines that operate in Florida?

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/29/gov-desantis-vows-to-ban-vaccine-passports-in-florida/

He does not have the authority to make such a ruling. 

[Karma5]

Much to do about nothing.....just get the vaccine..........

[UPNYGuy]

"If you look at the countries that are doing fully vaccinated cruises, it's mandatory by the government. We want to set sail, and that's part of the deal to cruise again."
 

this is exactly what my point has been. If one of the ports of call requires guests to be vaccinated, the ship will need to be vaccinated. And Royal Caribbean will not be alone. 

[Charles4515]

19 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Some are opposed to government keeping records on everyone, such as vaccination records.  Not sure if DeSantis is opposed to this or any records, like the card you receive when you get the vaccine.

I think requiring a vaccine is proper for cruise lines, at least until COVID19 is under control, which will be several months, perhaps more.

 

The US Supreme Court has ruled that governments can require people to take vaccines.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-the-supreme-court-rules-on-vaccines-and-public-health

 

Certainly, most of remember having to get the smallpox and other vaccines before we attended school.

COVID19 spreads faster than most diseases, but the fatality rate is still very low.   I don't think the US government or states will mandate a vaccine.

 

Of course, this is different from a private business requiring a vaccine.

 

I think that Royal Caribbean is going to say it is not the cruise line requiring vaccinations. That it is the ports, Bahamas and Bermuda that are requiring vaccination.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Charles4515

[ONECRUISER]

7 hours ago, jerseygirl3 said:

And as I said in a previous post, you will suddenly see a lot of religious zealots come out of the woodwork. Medical exemption will be harder to fake since no doctor will risk their medical license to fabricate a medical condition for a bogus exemption. 
 

When my kids started college, they were not allowed to move onto campus until they provided proof of meningitis vaccination. 

Not sure where you're hearing lot of Religious people on Covid Vaccine. Watch lot of news and you're first mentioning this. Where you seeing lot of them or any? Not even Anti-Vaxers making news on this, that was big 20yrs ago. Now Dr/Nurses not taking it(34-40%), Minority Groups(35-40%), Military 1/3 thats in News at least weekly since last Fall

[Shorewalk Holmes]

30 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

He does not have the authority to make such a ruling. 

Apparently DeSantis thinks he does, if this quote is accurate:

 

“And I’m going to be taking some action in an executive function and emergency function here very shortly.”

[Shorewalk Holmes]

41 minutes ago, Karma5 said:

Much to do about nothing.....just get the vaccine..........

Very true, get the vaccine! 

 

But DeSantis' executive action would be a big deal for many, even if he can't find a way to apply it to cruise ships.  What about restaurant owners who want to protect their unvaccinated young waitstaff?  DeSantis is saying they can't? 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

I personally would feel more comfortable cruising on a fully vaccinated ship. 

Yes, me too.  I hope that when ships can sail out of Florida, we still have that option if it is appropriate.

[ONECRUISER]

46 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

 

 

"The US Supreme Court has ruled that governments can require people to take vaccines"

 

Though not sure if Supreme Court would with this Vaccine being only "EUA". Know when I was in Military didnt have choice, licensed Vaccines. As these are not yet think reason 1/3 Military allowed to decline it and higher number in Medical Field also not getting Vaccine. Also there is many Vaccines that have never been Mandated. Influenza killed more kids last year then Covid yet Flu shot isnt. Hard say though, if more kids got sick/died from Covid maybe join other Vaccines be required go to Public School, so far just dont see it happening. Besides be another 18+ months before get this to all the kids, long as downward trend continues with Vaccines received Herd Immunity likely happen long before Fall2022... 

[livingonthebeach]

Looks like Carnival is not wanting the backlash RCI is getting from groups calling for boycotts.

 

"As more Americans are vaccinated, our focus is on securing a decision that will allow for a resumption of cruising from our U.S. homeports,” said Duffy. Again, the word usage is crucial, allowing Carnival to, in a sense, have its cake and eat it, too. Should the CDC reverse course, there is always the possibility that they will put in place a ruling requiring passengers sailing from U.S. ports to be vaccinated. Until and unless that happens, there is no reason for Carnival to make a firm decision and, in doing so, risk alienating passengers who — for whatever reason — refuse to be vaccinated."

 

https://cruiseradio.net/why-carnival-cruise-lines-vaccine-port-gamble-will-pay-off/

[John&LaLa]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:21 AM, RFerrington said:

Thank you @Boo’s Mom and @nomad098.  I’ve already been cancelled for trying to discuss these concerns. No doubt, you both will be, too.  Good luck.

 

Or, it's not a vaccine until it is a vaccine.😉

 

I don't recall all the details, but the Salk vaccine was totally out of the box at the time. 

 

It turned out pretty good

[John&LaLa]

On 3/25/2021 at 4:01 PM, coffeebean said:

You must have a more scientific and inquisitive mind than I do. Everything I have read about these mRNA vaccines, is very positive to me. Nothing about them makes me leery that I have done something that may be detrimental to my health in years to come.

 

The technology is amazing to me. I like the fact that these mRNA vaccines need just a bit of a tweek to protect against variants rather than the process needed for traditional vaccines and that can be done very quickly with mRNA vaccines. I honestly do not believe our DNA can be changed although I imagine there are some folks out there that can us a bit of a rehab in that department. LOL.

 

I really appreciate your dedication to the research you have done but I wonder why, if you were able to unfold many of these things you have mentioned, why the mRNA manufacturers were still able to get the emergency authorization from the FDA? Do you honestly feel the emergency authorization will be rescinded and these vaccines will never get the approval the manufacturers seek?

 

I was much happier to get Pfizer than J&J