To those who keep defending the CDC, read this article:

[KennyFla]

https://www.cruisehive.com/worrying-answers-from-cdc-director-on-conditional-sailing-order/48435

 

 

[optimusprime82]

3 hours ago, KennyFla said:

To those who keep defending the CDC, read this article:

 

 

 

To those that keep attacking the CDC, re-read that article.

 

So you're mad that the CDC is stating that they don't have the final word on lifting the "Conditional Sailing Order?"

 

"The CDC Director responded with the following the answer: This is an inter-agency decision, it is not a decision solely up to the CDC so I would be remiss if I would do that by myself because the decision is not solely up to us.”

 

Just because you're tired Covid-19 doesn't mean that it will just disappear despite all your hopes and dreams.

[paulh84]

It's pretty naive to think the CDC single handledly just decided to shut down the industry. How many layers of regulation oversee cruise ships and ports? Her reference to OMB just means the Exec Branch is involved. 

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, paulh84 said:

It's pretty naive to think the CDC single handledly just decided to shut down the industry. How many layers of regulation oversee cruise ships and ports? Her reference to OMB just means the Exec Branch is involved. 

 

They issued the no sale order and the conditional return rules, or they say they did.  They were at odds with the VP in October who overruled them, then they threw a temper tantrum and still have given no clear rules.

[deliver42]

I don't think the CDC has a clue as to what's been going on with cruising the rest of the world, and soon in the Caribbean. You are giving them too much credit. All they're doing now is passing the buck.

[KennyFla]

2 hours ago, optimusprime82 said:

 

To those that keep attacking the CDC, re-read that article.

 

So you're mad that the CDC is stating that they don't have the final word on lifting the "Conditional Sailing Order?"

 

"The CDC Director responded with the following the answer: This is an inter-agency decision, it is not a decision solely up to the CDC so I would be remiss if I would do that by myself because the decision is not solely up to us.”

 

Just because you're tired Covid-19 doesn't mean that it will just disappear despite all your hopes and dreams.

 

That's your take on this, huh?

 

Over 300,000 people have cruised safely in Europe since August.

 

Many other countries, many of which are not as far along as the US in vaccinations have firm plans to re-start cruising.

 

The Director of the CDC appears to have no clue what the plan is for cruising.  Meanwhile 40,000 people's livelihoods in the Miami area alone await her guidance.  Her answer?  "I'm not going to make any decisions."

[optimusprime82]

21 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

 

That's your take on this, huh?

 

Over 300,000 people have cruised safely in Europe since August.

 

Many other countries, many of which are not as far along as the US in vaccinations have firm plans to re-start cruising.

 

The Director of the CDC appears to have no clue what the plan is for cruising.  Meanwhile 40,000 people's livelihoods in the Miami area alone await her guidance.  Her answer?  "I'm not going to make any decisions."

 

Her answer?  "I'm not going to make any decisions."

 

What's strange is what she said and what you read don't seem to be lining up. She didn't say she's not going to make any decisions, she said it's not entirely up to the CDC to make the decisions that she's being asked about.

I'd love to see cruising plans from the US start to be announced, I'm booked on the Meraviglia in October, but that doesn't mean that the US is ready yet. It's interesting that so many US citizens don't like to be compared to other countries or follow their example but in this instance because Italy, Germany and the UK are doing it, it's the right choice for the US. 

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, optimusprime82 said:

 

Her answer?  "I'm not going to make any decisions."

 

What's strange is what she said and what you read don't seem to be lining up. She didn't say she's not going to make any decisions, she said it's not entirely up to the CDC to make the decisions that she's being asked about.
 

 

On second thought, you may be partially correct.  Her answer really was, "This is not my problem.  It is somebody else's problem."

 

Even though the CDC is the agency that officially shut down cruising.  Now it is somebody else's fault.

 

1 hour ago, optimusprime82 said:

I'd love to see cruising plans from the US start to be announced, I'm booked on the Meraviglia in October, but that doesn't mean that the US is ready yet. It's interesting that so many US citizens don't like to be compared to other countries or follow their example but in this instance because Italy, Germany and the UK are doing it, it's the right choice for the US. 

Who says the US is not ready?  There are plenty of people on these boards that are ready to cruise.  I am ready to cruise.

 

What problem is there with a cruise where everyone on board is vaccinated?  If total vaccination does not let us go back to normal, what's the point of all this?

 

 

[optimusprime82]

1 minute ago, KennyFla said:

On second thought, you may be partially correct.  Her answer really was, "This is not my problem.  It is somebody else's problem."

 

Even though the CDC is the agency that officially shut down cruising.  Now it is somebody else's fault.

 

Who says the US is not ready?  There are plenty of people on these boards that are ready to cruise.  I am ready to cruise.

 

What problem is there with a cruise where everyone on board is vaccinated?  If total vaccination does not let us go back to normal, what's the point of all this?

 

 

 

Jeez, that still not what she said. If you want to correctly paraphrase her then it would go something like this, "This is a joint problem, I can't speak for all parties involved in the decision." 

 

I'm ready to cruise too aside from the fact that I'm a week away from being eligible to be vaccinated. If a cruise line is ready to cruise with all guests being vaccinated I'm all for getting the ball moving on that. That's not what most people seem to be discussing though. A lot of cruise critic members don't seem to be interested in being vaccinated, nor have I heard much from the cruise companies that sail from US ports on what their preferred vaccination policy might be. Perhaps if Carnival, RC, MSC and others took a firm stand on the vaccination issue that would help grease the wheels on getting the "No Sail Order" lifted.

[Pizzasteve]

22 minutes ago, optimusprime82 said:

 

Jeez, that still not what she said. If you want to correctly paraphrase her then it would go something like this, "This is a joint problem, I can't speak for all parties involved in the decision." 

 

I'm ready to cruise too aside from the fact that I'm a week away from being eligible to be vaccinated. If a cruise line is ready to cruise with all guests being vaccinated I'm all for getting the ball moving on that. That's not what most people seem to be discussing though. A lot of cruise critic members don't seem to be interested in being vaccinated, nor have I heard much from the cruise companies that sail from US ports on what their preferred vaccination policy might be. Perhaps if Carnival, RC, MSC and others took a firm stand on the vaccination issue that would help grease the wheels on getting the "No Sail Order" lifted.

Agreed.  We have a strong blame culture in this country.  It is not considered ok to honestly admit that we need to study an issue and consult stakeholders first.  Cruising impacts many more people than just the vaccinated passengers.  Are crews able to be vaccinated?  How about populations of the countries being visited. It was not a good look for wealthy travelers to accellerate spread of outbreak in  unvaccinated, poor countries with thinly staffed medical care facilities.

 

I am sure many factors need to be evaluated and assuming our best qualified professionals are motivated by bad intentions seems to say more about the person than anything about the CDC.

 

Note I am ready to sail too, and favor a restart once good data on the risk of spread among vaccinated populations is better understood.  I think this will come pretty soon.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[paulh84]

3 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

They issued the no sale order and the conditional return rules, or they say they did.  They were at odds with the VP in October who overruled them, then they threw a temper tantrum and still have given no clear rules.

HHS and CDC did issue the order. That doesn’t mean they were the sole group creating the order. I wouldn’t say they threw a tantrum. They had political pressure that was ill-advised, they appeased that pressure and still stayed on course. They played the pressure and won. 
 

Cruise lines also had months to provide their plans to the CDC and failed to provide anything. That’s when the CDC had to step outside of their own scope and do the work for the cruise lines.  Now the protocol that was created is outdated because of rapid advancements with vaccines so yet another program and policy is needed. They’re close but not there yet. 
 

I’d bet money they are waiting on vaccinations to hit a certain threshold before anything else is released. The mid-May dates that have popped up recently also coincide with the point 50% of the US population has had at least 1 dose. Coincidence?

Edited March 23, 2021 by paulh84

[grandgeezer]

7 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

That's your take on this, huh?

 

Over 300,000 people have cruised safely in Europe since August.

 

Many other countries, many of which are not as far along as the US in vaccinations have firm plans to re-start cruising.

 

The Director of the CDC appears to have no clue what the plan is for cruising.  Meanwhile 40,000 people's livelihoods in the Miami area alone await her guidance.  Her answer?  "I'm not going to make any decisions."

Where did you pull that 300,000 number from, or did you just guess? 
The CDC’s focus is public health and safety, jobs and finance isn’t anything they have to, or should, be taken in consideration. They don’t have the final say, the idiots in D.C. can over rule them at anytime, yet they haven’t. I wonder why?

I’ve heard of no countries that have firm plans for restarting cruising, please enlighten me.

[hamrag]

4 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

....I’ve heard of no countries that have firm plans for restarting cruising, please enlighten me.

 

The UK, with short coastal sailings, but only for those who are fully vaccinated and agree to mask wearing within 'certain areas' on the ship. That specifically excludes those who 'cannot' wear masks.

[KennyFla]

5 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

Where did you pull that 300,000 number from, or did you just guess? 
The CDC’s focus is public health and safety, jobs and finance isn’t anything they have to, or should, be taken in consideration. They don’t have the final say, the idiots in D.C. can over rule them at anytime, yet they haven’t. I wonder why?

I’ve heard of no countries that have firm plans for restarting cruising, please enlighten me.

 

From an interview with the Royal Caribbean CEO:

"The cruise industry overall has carried more than 350,000 passengers since the pandemic with “minimal disruption,” he added."

 

 

From Cruise Critic:

AIDA: Sailings resumed March 20, 2021 aboard AIDAperla. Mid-May for other vessels.

 

Voyages aboard Celebrity Millennium will begin

 from St. Maarten on June 5, 2021.

 

Costa: May 1, 2021 aboard Costa Smeralda only; May 16 aboard Costa Luminosa only.

 

Fred. Olsen:

Balmoral: July 1, 2021 on UK-only voyages.

 

Hapag-Lloyd Cruises: Limited sailings resumed July 31, 2020 aboard Europa 2 and Hanseatic Inspiration for German, Swiss and Austrian residents only.

 

Holland America Line: May 1, 2021, except the following ships/destinations:

Volendam: July 1, 2021 (Europe)

Westerdam: July 1, 2021 (Europe)

Nieuw Statendam: July 1, 2021 (Europe)

 

MSC Cruises:

MSC has been cruising since August in the Mediterranean, with a brief pause in Dec/Jan.

Voyages for UK passengers only will begin May 20, 2021 aboard MSC Magnifica from Southampton.

 

P&O Cruises: June 27, 2021, though only for domestic sailings.(England)

 

Royal Caribbean: June 1, 2021, except:

Sailings aboard Quantum of the Seas, and Odyssey of the Seas in Singapore and Israel, respectively;

Sailings aboard Spectrum of the Seas and Vision of the Seas in China, which start April 29, 2021

Sailings aboard Adventure of the Seas from Nassau, which beginJune 12, 2021.

 

TUI (Mein Schiff): Mein Schiff 1 and 2 operate voyages through the Canary Islands.

 

Virgin Voyages: July 1, 2021 for Scarlet Lady; and for its second ship, Valiant Lady, November 14, 2021.

[KennyFla]

9 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

Cruise lines also had months to provide their plans to the CDC and failed to provide anything. That’s when the CDC had to step outside of their own scope and do the work for the cruise lines.  Now the protocol that was created is outdated because of rapid advancements with vaccines so yet another program and policy is needed. They’re close but not there yet. 
 

I disagree.  Cruise lines have been working with the CDC to get the green status.   I tried to check the latest status update, but it seems to be unavailable.  When the conditional sail order was released last November, everybody knew it was unreasonable to follow.  But they keep working with the CDC to get guidance.

 

9 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

I’d bet money they are waiting on vaccinations to hit a certain threshold before anything else is released. The mid-May dates that have popped up recently also coincide with the point 50% of the US population has had at least 1 dose. Coincidence?

I think so too.  It would be nice if they let other people in on the plan so the Cruise Lines can prepare.  I have not heard of any May start, except in England and I think Israel.

[paulh84]

1 hour ago, KennyFla said:

I disagree.  Cruise lines have been working with the CDC to get the green status.   I tried to check the latest status update, but it seems to be unavailable.  When the conditional sail order was released last November, everybody knew it was unreasonable to follow.  But they keep working with the CDC to get guidance.

 

The green status is only the tip of the iceberg. If they can't satisfy that, they are in no way prepared for passengers IMO. All that means is they have a COVID response plan, a COVID-free crew for 28 days and they can transfers crew using commercial transportation. If they can't keep a COVID free ship with 100-150 people on board...bad news since that element has nothing to do with passengers. 

 

 

 

[KennyFla]

13 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

The green status is only the tip of the iceberg. If they can't satisfy that, they are in no way prepared for passengers IMO. All that means is they have a COVID response plan, a COVID-free crew for 28 days and they can transfers crew using commercial transportation. If they can't keep a COVID free ship with 100-150 people on board...bad news since that element has nothing to do with passengers. 

 

 

 

 

But they have satisfied it.  I found the list from the CDC, all ships have obtained green status.  This is squarely on the CDC, or whoever is really holding this up.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/crew-disembarkations-commercial-travel.html

 

 

[paulh84]

41 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

 

But they have satisfied it.  I found the list from the CDC, all ships have obtained green status.  This is squarely on the CDC, or whoever is really holding this up.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/crew-disembarkations-commercial-travel.html

 

 

 

That's not a one and done step and only applies to specific ships they plan to use from US ports. They continually have to submit the documentation to maintain the status.

[hamrag]

30 minutes ago, Couple-Somerset said:

 

Not strictly true - MSC are about to launch UK coastal cruises (with UK port stops) and passengers are not required to be vaccinated - merely to have had a negative pcr test prior to travel, followed by a swab test prior to boarding.

I do understand that is what MSC are planning. However, with the other lines P&O, Fred Olsen, Viking and Cunard stating vaccination and mask wearing as an essential and non-negotiable requirement, I remain sceptical that MSC will be allowed a different approach in UK waters. Particularly in the light of the reported 3rd wave, which (in BoJos' words) will also wash up on UK shores!

[sidari]

7 hours ago, hamrag said:

I do understand that is what MSC are planning. However, with the other lines P&O, Fred Olsen, Viking and Cunard stating vaccination and mask wearing as an essential and non-negotiable requirement, I remain sceptical that MSC will be allowed a different approach in UK waters. Particularly in the light of the reported 3rd wave, which (in BoJos' words) will also wash up on UK shores!

Viking have said no vaccinations, MSC have lead the cruise Industry since the end of July 2020, the UK Government should be following their lead not the other way around.

[Dgshooter]

As it is now I suggest they lift the no sail order entirely and let the cruise lines set their guidelines. The it would be up to us adults to assess the risks/benefits of choosing to cruise.

 

I don't need the government to decide what is best for me.

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, Dgshooter said:

As it is now I suggest they lift the no sail order entirely and let the cruise lines set their guidelines. The it would be up to us adults to assess the risks/benefits of choosing to cruise...

 

The most obvious problem with that approach is that waaaaaaaaay too many adults cannot (or will not) rationalise as adults ought! 🙄

[KennyFla]

There seems to be a push right now by the industry on the CDC.  I believe these recent moves by Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, and the just announced moves by Norwegian to relocate ships are to put pressure on the CDC.

 

I have emailed Scott, DeSantis, and Rubio begging them to get involved.  If you want cruising to start and if you ever considered writing to your representatives now would be a great time.

 

The more the better.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/24/cruise-lines-urge-cdc-to-allow-sailings-from-us-ports-to-resume-in-early-july.html

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by KennyFla

[Cruiser Bruiser]

The CDC director's reply to Lisa Murkowski's questions were completely lacking in any substance and very disappointing. Murkowski was careful to contextualize the issue: economies being decimated; no predictability re a return to cruising; no update on the science related to cruising as a source of COVID-19 transmission. The CDC director's reply was: "yeah, that's not my department. That's DOT (Department of Transportation)." The no sail/conditional return to sailing order comes from the CDC, so essentially she is passing the buck.

[sidari]

Looks like the CDC are not for turning!

 

CDC Says Order Limiting Cruises Will Stay In Effect Until November (cruisefever.net)