NCL Counters CDC new phase with it's own plan. Really bold move.

[NikiPinkston]

Just now, iamaqt2 said:

But there's no way to know which vaccines passengers have received, so the assumption would have to be the lowest rate of efficacy, even though statistically it would likely be much higher.

Ah, well, that's true.  But I believe it would be safe to assume that there would be a mix of passengers vaccinated with various vaccines, so surely that raises the odds a bit....?

[iamaqt2]

6 minutes ago, NikiPinkston said:

Ah, well, that's true.  But I believe it would be safe to assume that there would be a mix of passengers vaccinated with various vaccines, so surely that raises the odds a bit....?

Absolutely.  But the cruise lines are almost all likely to require masking for some time regardless.

[giustot]

Even in the unlikely event the NCL request is approved, no one has yet mentioned that the Florida governor has signed an executive order prohibiting any businesses in Florida from requiring proof of vaccination. This idea of requiring vaccinations to cruise still has to play out. It's not as simple as, "a private business can do whatever it wants." Businesses have to obey the law.

 

Tom.

[RiotAct]

 

19 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

But there's no way to know which vaccines passengers have received, so the assumption would have to be the lowest rate of efficacy, even though statistically it would likely be much higher.

to be extra safe, they should expressly prohibit gathering indoors, except with your immediate family.

[iamaqt2]

4 minutes ago, giustot said:

Even in the unlikely event the NCL request is approved, no one has yet mentioned that the Florida governor has signed an executive order prohibiting any businesses in Florida from requiring proof of vaccination. This idea of requiring vaccinations to cruise still has to play out. It's not as simple as, "a private business can do whatever it wants." Businesses have to obey the law.

 

Tom.

None of the major cruise lines sailing from Florida are a Florida business.  They are all foreign flagged ships doing business in Florida. As such they aren't subject to the EO.

[macandlucy]

That risk would only be 33% of the passengers face an infection risk, if none of the others are vaccinated. Since everyone is required to be vaccinated, the associated risk of exposure would be much lower than 33%.

 

It also assumes that every single person who is unvaccinated would a) encounter an infected person, b) meet the "contact requirements" (more than 15 minutes at less than 6 feet distance). That didn't even happen on the worst case scenario Diamond Princess.

 

While I personally don't mind a mask requirement, it seems like a butt covering move, for appearances sake only.  If there are no requirements about the masks themselves -- like they should be effective against aerosols, for example, then they aren't all that effective as a covid prevention measure.  Some are good, some are not.

 

It's sort of "settled science" that vaccines prevent transmission -- that's one of they key benefits of mass vaccination, and a big part of how a population achieves herd immunity. For some reason, the experts are acting like the settled science doesn't apply to this virus, or there's something really different about how the mRna vaccines behave in the body. But overall, the evidence is rolling in every day and it's looking, not surprisingly, like vaccinated people do not generally cause others to become infected with covid.

[iamaqt2]

2 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

 

to be extra safe, they should expressly prohibit gathering indoors, except with your immediate family.

Salty much?  I'm perfectly fine waving to the port web cam at sail away wearing my mask and enjoying a much needed vacation.  Enjoy your staycation.

[Petoonya]

20 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

But there's no way to know which vaccines passengers have received,

I don't know about that. My white CDC card shows that I received Moderna. Is it not true that yours does as well? Just a guess but I think your state or whatever governing body keeps a record of vaccines, would also record which vaccine you received.

[KmomChicago]

12 minutes ago, giustot said:

Even in the unlikely event the NCL request is approved, no one has yet mentioned that the Florida governor has signed an executive order prohibiting any businesses in Florida from requiring proof of vaccination. This idea of requiring vaccinations to cruise still has to play out. It's not as simple as, "a private business can do whatever it wants." Businesses have to obey the law.

 

Tom.

 

It's really not clear yet whether that applies here. This is an industry regulated at the federal level, not the state level.

 

[Beach Life 1]

I am very happy about this!    I think it's the only way the cruise lines can move forward.  I still wonder though,  what will happen to the people that have cruises booked, and will not or can not get a vaccine.  Do they get a refund, or a FCC?   I doubt they would get a refund,  because people that just want to get out of their cruise contract can say they are not vaccinated.  On Norwegian's Facebook page, there is already people complaining about having to get a vaccine.  There is no way to please everyone,  but this is surely the right move for cruising. 

[mpk218]

1 hour ago, iamaqt2 said:

Not really.  J&J vaccine has only 67% efficacy at preventing Covid.  While the other vaccines are better, the potential for 33% of passengers becoming infected would be a no go for any cruise ship.  The true benefit of the vaccine is the fact that it virtually eliminates the need for hospitalization, but the virus can still be transmitted.  So masking in congregate settings will be the norm for some time to come.

Incorrect , J&J found its vaccine was 85% effective at preventing severe illness and 100% effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths 28 days after individuals were vaccinated.

Therefore masks are a waste of time .  

[mpk218]

29 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

None of the major cruise lines sailing from Florida are a Florida business.  They are all foreign flagged ships doing business in Florida. As such they aren't subject to the EO.

Hahaha.. Unless you plan on swimming the 20 or so odd miles out to sea. That big ol pier they dock at is Miami proper  ; )

[iamaqt2]

4 minutes ago, mpk218 said:

Incorrect , J&J found its vaccine was 85% effective at preventing severe illness and 100% effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths 28 days after individuals were vaccinated.

Therefore masks are a waste of time .  

I was unaware that their data had changed.  Thank you for updating that. But I seriously doubt the CDC will let them initially sail without a mask mandate.

[mpk218]

8 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

I am very happy about this!    I think it's the only way the cruise lines can move forward.  I still wonder though,  what will happen to the people that have cruises booked, and will not or can not get a vaccine.  Do they get a refund, or a FCC?   I doubt they would get a refund,  because people that just want to get out of their cruise contract can say they are not vaccinated.  On Norwegian's Facebook page, there is already people complaining about having to get a vaccine.  There is no way to please everyone,  but this is surely the right move for cruising. 

If the cruise line changes the rules of the contract After you have booked thats a breach and they must offer a refund . Im sure there will be a time limit tho ...

[iamaqt2]

2 minutes ago, mpk218 said:

Hahaha.. Unless you plan on swimming the 20 or so odd miles out to sea. That big ol pier they dock at is Miami proper  ; )

That dock most likely falls under federal maritime regulations and not state.

[mpk218]

1 minute ago, iamaqt2 said:

I was unaware that their data had changed.  Thank you for updating that. But I seriously doubt the CDC will let them initially sail without a mask mandate.

I agree . I think by late Fall the mask issue will be no more ..

[milolii]

2 hours ago, kby1216 said:

We have just booked a July 3 cruise in Scandinavia so they are selling European itineraries. That is not to say that it won't be canceled but they are booking them at this moment.  

Pleas read the other thread here about Scandinavian cruises.  The vaccine roll out is NOT as robust as it is in the US,  unfortunately.  Things are vastly different in Europe. 

[Sand and Seas]

24 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

I am very happy about this!    I think it's the only way the cruise lines can move forward.  I still wonder though,  what will happen to the people that have cruises booked, and will not or can not get a vaccine.  Do they get a refund, or a FCC?   I doubt they would get a refund,  because people that just want to get out of their cruise contract can say they are not vaccinated.  On Norwegian's Facebook page, there is already people complaining about having to get a vaccine.  There is no way to please everyone,  but this is surely the right move for cruising. 

They have FAQs on their Sail Safe page addressing many questions:

 

If I already booked a cruise or have a FCC and don’t want to get vaccinated, will the cruise line provide a refund for my cruise?

Yes, if a guest’s cruise has a vaccination requirement, that the guest is unable to comply with; guest will be permitted to apply the full value of all amounts paid to a new future cruise credit or, at their discretion, be provided a cash refund in an amount equal to their original cash payment by visiting https://www.ncl.com/case-submission.

Refund amount will be subject to Norwegian’s cancelation fee policy communicated to our guests at time of booking.

[Crazy planning mom]

48 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

That risk would only be 33% of the passengers face an infection risk, if none of the others are vaccinated. Since everyone is required to be vaccinated, the associated risk of exposure would be much lower than 33%.

 

It also assumes that every single person who is unvaccinated would a) encounter an infected person, b) meet the "contact requirements" (more than 15 minutes at less than 6 feet distance). That didn't even happen on the worst case scenario Diamond Princess.

 

While I personally don't mind a mask requirement, it seems like a butt covering move, for appearances sake only.  If there are no requirements about the masks themselves -- like they should be effective against aerosols, for example, then they aren't all that effective as a covid prevention measure.  Some are good, some are not.

 

It's sort of "settled science" that vaccines prevent transmission -- that's one of they key benefits of mass vaccination, and a big part of how a population achieves herd immunity. For some reason, the experts are acting like the settled science doesn't apply to this virus, or there's something really different about how the mRna vaccines behave in the body. But overall, the evidence is rolling in every day and it's looking, not surprisingly, like vaccinated people do not generally cause others to become infected with covid.

I expect the mask requirement to be eliminated or severely curtailed in scope  in time.

However, if this is what they need to get the ball rolling, so be it.

[mpk218]

14 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

That dock most likely falls under federal maritime regulations and not state.

It is owned and operated by Miami Dade county in partnership with the city of Miami .

Not to mention the dozens of contractors that work the shore side . All in all 350,000 jobs are attached to that chunk of concrete ;

[Middleager]

I applaude NCL.

 

I wouldn't want to be on a cruise with anti-vaxxers.

 

Yes I'll come back to cruise on NCL now that all guests/crews need to be fully vaccinated.

[idiebabe]

44 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:

 

It's really not clear yet whether that applies here. This is an industry regulated at the federal level, not the state level.

 

It actually is quite clear.  DeSantis' EO is regarding normal Society activities such Residents going to Restaurants, Theme Parks, Arenas, Movie Theaters, etc. within his State.  This does not apply to the Cruise Lines. 

 

DeSantis met at the Port of Canaveral last week with the Presidents of Cruise Lines (including NCL's) and has been very supportive of the Cruise Lines to begin Sailing from the State's four Ports.  You can watch the Roundtable on the Port Canaveral website.  He has his Attorney General set to Sue the CDC if need be.  

 

Again, his EO will not affect Sailing out of Florida Ports.

[RiotAct]

23 minutes ago, mpk218 said:

I agree . I think by late Fall the mask issue will be no more ..

You are dreaming, my friend.

 

Reminiscent of the people who last spring said “if we’re not back to normal by the end of the year, citizens will be rioting int he streets demanding answers from the elected officials“

[milolii]

I wonder if POA might become test cruises with vaccinated US citizens visiting US ports.  I mention this as it would be similar to the U.K.’ s  model for cruises this summer around the U.K.  

[iamaqt2]

CDC has issued new guidance today to the cruise lines, and vaccines will not be mandatory.  This is very disappointing IMO, and I hope the cruise lines will still require them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/business/cruise-lines-guidance.html