The square peg & the round hole

[herb]

Herb,

Not everyone on this board is like this. Yes, there are some that are into "who is who" on the ship. I couldn't tell you who was Captain let alone anyone else on most of my cruises. In 15 cruises I only remember the names of 2 CD's. What is important to some is not important to others.

IMO most pax are like me. I never met anyone on the ship that talked about Captains or officers.

 

Don't regret booking the cruise. You will enjoy it. The only announcement you get bombared with is BINGO. ;) You will not be policed or monitored. For some reason "dress code" is the favorite debate on this board. Other boards have other subjects that are debated to death. It is the nature of forums. I believe your cruise will be everything you hope for.

 

Thanks to you gizmo, and also the previous posters for your very kind words of encouragement; we are still very excited at getting the chance to try HAL

I guess it was just a "last straw" when this thread appeared, and I felt that flicker of excitement start to extinguish! :rolleyes:

[gizmo]

Laura:

 

For the most part I agree with you.

 

HOWEVER, The OP on the "topless" thread simply asked if there were a topless deck on HAL ships. It wasn't until some posters, instead of just saying no, had to interject their own opinion on topless sunbathing and the "type of people" who would want to engage in such a thing.

 

The majority of these warring threads start with a relative newcomer to HAL asking a simple question. Instead of a simple answer they end up getting lectured and, quite naturally, feel the need to defend themselves from the percieved "attack". ( Some theoretical examples: OP asks "Do I need to wear a tux or suit on formal nights?" answeres range from "yes" to "no" to to "What kind of uncivilized fool would dare not dress according to regulations?" How does he feel about a) The people on the CC HAL forum? b) The people he will encounter on his cruise?)

 

I think that if the tone of the responses had remained civil the thread would not have degenerated the way it did.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

Love your .02. :) I have often thought the same thing. Why not just an answer to the question ? Not only the Hal board but all the boards have a problem with this and certain subjects make it worse.

 

I went back and reread the thread. Agree. It degenerated because of the tone and comments . A simple no would have answered the question.

[RevNeal]

It seems that everyone here is, or feels they should be, on a first name basis with the captain, has private meetings with the staff in order to discuss their likes and dislikes aboard the ship. It would seem that many of you feel that you are part owners of this cruiseline!

 

Herb, let's think about this statement for just a minute. You're right ... there are many times when many of us on this board DO sound like this. Many of us ARE on a first-name basis with ships officers and DO have "private meetings" (i.e., dinners and cocktail party conversations, etc.) with the staff. It's not because all of us are true VIPs, have hundreds of days to our names, or book the nose-bleed accommodations every time. It's because, while HAL most certainly IS a company and a business, their style of hospitality and the gracious, welcoming atmosphere they generate aboard their ships, actually PRODUCES this feeling. It's true ... the officers and staff of the damships make extra-special efforts to BE accessible to their guests. When the ships were much smaller this must have been much easier, but they somehow still manage to make every passenger feel NOT like a customer but like a guest. Hence ... the reason why many of us have cruised with them for years, and why it feels to us like someone is dumping on our family when we hear about caviler attitudes toward the traditions which we've come to enjoy.

 

From what I've been reading on the HAL forums there is just so much negativity & complaining. I am almost regretting having booked a cruise with HAL, just from reading these posts.

 

Here's my observation. MANY of us, here on this board, desperately NEED to get away for a wonderful week or 10 days of luxury and relaxation aboard the decks of a ship. :) Please, don't regret having booked a cruise on HAL ... once you're aboard, you'll FORGET any snippiness that might have been experienced here. Trust me. I do.

 

Both my wife and I were really looking forward to a low key vacation where we could enjoy the tranquility of the sea without being bombarded with announcements, having to deal with unruly children and guests whose main course for breakfast is a bucket of beer.

 

And, Herb, for the most part that is precisely what you'll find onboard the ships of the Holland America Line. You've truly made a good choice!

 

Instead we're getting the feeling that we'll be boarding a ship where we, as first time HAL cruisers, are "guests" to those privileged few who have been sailing HAL for many years and will be policed and monitored and critiqued by them from morning til evening regarding what we wear, when we wear it, etc, etc. etc.

 

FOFLMHO ... I'm sorry ... I'm not laughing at YOU ... I'm laughing at US. What you're afraid of is the stereotype that has been painted about those of us who are HAL traditionalists. While some of us may appear to be like this on this board, you'd never know it in person. Granted, that's not true with me; with me, what you see here is what you get in person. I'm no different in person than I am on this board (that's sometimes kinda frightening, actually). I think this is because I've been such an open and public person for so many years on the internet that there's no way I could ever live a double-life, or be two different people. Many other people, however, are quite a bit more open about inner thoughts, fears, and frustrations on these boards than they would EVER be in actual practice. In real life, they are far more reserved ... not just in what they will say to you or about you to others but, indeed, in how they will act and what they will actually DO in real life. In other words, some may express horror about dress code "violations" here on the CC board, but while aboard ship they're simply too busy having a BLAST to give even one millisecond's thought or CARE about what you or anyone else is doing or wearing. Oh, sure, the sight and experience are registering in their minds, but it's not being dealt with or responded to at that time. No ... it takes getting off a ship, missing it, and wishing one were back aboard, to dredge up such observations and thoughts and horrors. :) Indeed, it's precisely because we're NOT aboard ship, having a good time, enjoying ourselves immensely, that we ever bother talking about such stuff here.

 

That's why I say that 4/5 of the HAL board NEEDS A CRUISE ... and needs one BADLY.

[ekerr19]

It would seem that many of you feel that you are part owners of this cruiseline!

 

 

herb - I have to laugh out loud here!!! Some of us are - many regular HAL cruisers own stock in Carnival Corporation! :D

 

Seriously though - many things on the boards are often taken out of context. I believe you either asked the question (several weeks ago, I believe) or posted on the thread about your wife wearing capri's in the diningroom. I meant my response "cropped slacks vs. capris" as somewhat tongue-in-cheek (my poor attempt at humor) and I realized later you didn't see it that way - I wanted to post a clarification, but thought best to leave well enough alone.

 

I use this as an example of how the posted or written word may no always convey the actual intent. :) You will have a great time on HAL, I'm sure - and hasn't this board been entertaining if nothing else? ;)

[ryansmemom]

Herb,

 

I know I am just reinforcing what the others are saying, but I do want to add my voice to the choir. When you and your wife are onboard you will understand what we are talking about. HAL's hospitality is spectacular. This is what we are guarding and fear losing if HAL becomes like all the other lines.

 

Many of us do meet with the higher ups onboard. You will too. You will be surprised at how accessable they are to their guests. The warmth and friendliness of HAL's crew and staff make you feel that you are their guest, not just their customer. I have been on other lines and it does not feel the same.

 

Beleive me, it does not matter if you are staying in an inside cabin or the penthouse. The hospitality and warmth is the same. We defend this cruiseline because we love the experience and we do not want to see it downgraded.

 

I for one do not want to see the ships get larger. I fear the experience will be diluted because there will be more people onboard and by virture of those larger numbers the experience will be less personalised. Now, you get to recognise everyone. It is amazing, when we were on the Maasdam with my grandson, it seemed everyone knew his name from Captain Van der Loo down to the sailors. The captain called him Shy Ry and stooped down to greet him whenever he saw him. People stopped working to greet him.

 

Wait until you get onboard. None of us think HAL is perfect. It's just as close as we can get. We go on our cruises to have a good time. We have a positive attitude. We don't really care what other people are doing or wearing unless it has a negative impact on our experience.

 

Linda

[caviargal]

This is what comes to my mind each time I read a post supporting "go ahead and do it anyway" (well, that and the Burger King commercial - you know the one... "Have it your way")... :)

 

I think it's probably some of the responses on the post about the topless sunbathing deck that is compelling me to respond. Please know I am not criticizing or directing anything at any one poster or group of posters - it's more in reponse to a trend I've noticed on the boards since I found this site - which seems to have become a prevalent attitude by more than a few people.

 

HAL does not have a topless sunbathing deck - for those of you who feel the need to label me and others as prudes, puritanistic, etc. for speaking up in opposition to just "doing it" - perhaps I can try to explain.

 

I see quite a few posters saying, "Oh what the heck, they're just a bunch of prudes" and "do it anyway, if you want to" ... I must comment that I just truly don't understand this attitude. I am basically a "live and let live" type of individual. What you choose to do or not to do is really of little concern to me... that is, until it affects me - and more importantly MY cruise experience.

 

While, the "topless-ness" issue in itself does not bother me, I pretty much do take exception to the encouragement for flaunting of rules, procedures, dress codes (suggested and otherwise), diapers in the pool, smuggling liquor, cavalier attitude towards lifeboat drill - the list could go on and on...

 

I CHOOSE my cruise line (HAL exclusively) because I can count on several certainties which are important to me... for example, I know that on a 10-day cruise there will most likely be 3 formal nights; mostly likely I will encounter people such as myself who have either outgrown or never cared much for the partying mentality found on some cruise ships, that there continues to be a traditional dining experience and a traditional ambiance (how much longer is anyone's guess), and that most people do adhere to the suggested dress of the evening.

 

 

While it seems HAL is lowering its traditional standards and making changes that may appeal to a broader market base, I can't help but wonder how many of these changes are a direct result of the "do as I choose" mentality.

 

I like HAL the way it is. I don't want to see the dress code eliminated because some people feel it is unnecessary, or dining changed because people want to just come and go as they please...

 

There are so many other cruise options for those that don't want to dress for dinner, those who like the freedom of eating whenever they wish, for those who enjoy the party without end, for those that want to sunbathe topless... why must so many people continue to try and force the square peg into a round hole and get HAL (and those of us who LIKE it just fine the way it is) to change????

 

Why not just choose something more in keeping with your own personal preferences?

 

I just truly don't get it. :confused:

 

 

I agree with you completely.

 

I am loyal to hotels and restaurants that I enjoy, as I know they will provide an experience I enjoy. I vacation in environments where I am comfortable and where amenities and the ambiance match my tastes. I cannot imagine why someone would choose a vacation that did not offer what is important to them.

 

Many cruise lines have adopted casual policies and, therefore, are cruise lines that I no longer patronize. I was quite surprised to read some of the postings on this board and to learn that HAL, in some areas, was relaxing their standards. It does affect my cruise experience when other pax are dressed down to an extent that shorts are seen in the dining room at dinner, as is happening on many lines today. IMO, that does not make me a snob. I simply choose to be in an environment that I enjoy.

 

I find that a good number of the snide comments on this board are made by those seeking justification to break the rules. These are many of the same people who will be belligerent to staff when they are turned away from entering the dining room. I have seen this behavior on many cruises and I always feel sorry for the staff members who are abused for simply doing their jobs.

 

I hope that HAL and the handful of other cruise lines who appeal to a more traditional cruising clientele will continue to offer an experience that differentiates them from the rest.

[bonstersd]

I for one am done posting on this HAL thread. (Let the cheering start.) Many of these posters are snobs, but they don't like being called snobs. They make snobish remarks and when called out on it, they find it unbelievable that anyone who didn't know them would call them a snob. The attitude that everyone who goes on a HAL cruise must conform because it is a "society" is incredulous. The attitude that what one wears will adversely affect another's cruise is incredulous. Get a life. It is a cruise. It is a vacation. HAL is a business. It will do whatever it takes to make money. It has for two months been advertising a 7 cabin upgrade...enjoy a verandah for the price of an inside! Who wouldn't take advantage of this opportunity? You may want to keep your precious cruise line the same as it has always been, but everything changes, they always do, especially when money is involved....good luck trying to cope. BTW, I am booked on the Oosterdam in October....you may want consider this when booking your next cruise.

[bonstersd]

oh, and goodbye.

[NoNoNanette]

Herb,

 

I for one am done posting on this HAL thread. (Let the cheering start. Many of these posters are snobs, but they don't like being called snobs. They make snobish remarks and when called out on it, they find it unbelievable that anyone who didn't know them would call them a snob. The attitude that everyone who goes on a HAL cruise must conform because it is a "society" is incredulous. The attitude that what one wears will adversely affect another's cruise is incredulous. Get a life. It is a cruise. It is a vacation. HAL is a business. It will do whatever it takes to make money. It has for two months been advertising a 7 cabin upgrade...enjoy a verandah for the price of an inside! Who wouldn't take advantage of this opportunity? You may want to keep your precious cruise line the same as it has always been, but everything changes, they always do, especially when money is involved....good luck trying to cope. BTW, I am booked on the Oosterdam in October....you may want consider this when booking your next cruise.

 

I wish that you were with us on the 12/03 Volendam.

 

(I'm in total agreement with you.);)

[bonstersd]

Herb, only the beginning part where I said I was no longer posting on these boards was directed at you. The rest was not, which I hope was obvious to you. I tried to go back and edit it, but it may have been too late.

[ekerr19]

It has for two months been advertising a 7 cabin upgrade...enjoy a verandah for the price of an inside! Who wouldn't take advantage of this opportunity?

 

Funny, I never thought too much of this promotion, the cost between the 7 categories not really being that prohibitive and the fact that it doesn't apply to my situation, I sort of discounted it's value to others. I'm glad people are able to take advantage of it though. For some, it may well be the difference between having a balcony or not. I guess I never really thought of it that way - so thanks. :)

 

You know what - I changed my mind on this last paragraph. It is an unnecessary comment - other than to say that I am sorry you found all of us to be snobs, it simply is not true. Have a wonderful cruise with your husband. Neither of you will be out of place, nor will anyone make you feel as such.

[the2ofus]

While the thread has veered away slightly from Laura's original post I would like to add another dimension to her very well presented comments. I will also reply to bonstersd's original comment.

 

When you make a choice of a cruise you might do so for many different reasons. Those of us who have learned already that the HAL product is a good match simply choose HAL because it is HAL and then choose an itinerary we hope to enjoy. Others may choose the specific ship and cruise line because of the itinerary.

 

In either case, when you make the choice you don't get part of the package, you are signing on for the whole thing. If the HAL quietly elegant and laid back, rather formal ambiance appeals to you, don't expect buckets of beer and hairy legs/wet T-shirt contests or nude sunbathing. That is simply not HAL. Be content with the fact that you cannot have both in the same package.

 

If the itinerary is most important, choose among the ships that go there based on your personal preferences for activities and amenities. If the ship you choose does not have nude sunbathing, so be it. If the ship does not offer formal nights with the men in tuxes, women in gowns, accept it. You chose it for the itinerary. Decide if you want to live with the rest of the package and not complain, or if you want to make another choice.

 

When I read these 'HAL must change to accommodate me' threads I am reminded of couples who marry the "perfect" person and then spend all their years together trying to change their partner into their "ideal" mate.

 

Life is all about choices. Make the best choice you can, for your personal enjoyment and then be willing to live and let live.

 

To those of you who are trying HAL for the first time, hopefully you will become defenders of the HAL style also. I know you going to have a wonderful cruise.

[lougee1043]

I can't believe that these types of threads show up day after day after day after day! :eek:

 

It seems that everyone here is, or feels they should be, on a first name basis with the captain, has private meetings with the staff in order to discuss their likes and dislikes aboard the ship. It would seem that many of you feel that you are part owners of this cruiseline!quote]

 

herb --- trust me you will have a great time on hal -- it will be all that you are hoping it will be and i an ex new yorker will be there to cover your back

 

i agree with your post- people want to know who the cruise director or hostess is before they book a cruise---- all i want to know about the captain is that his ticket is current and punched --- the cruise director or hostess has never done one thing to make my cruise more enjoyable --- thats my job and i take it very serious

 

also i though i read somewhere that only about 2% of cruisers actually check out these boards and that 2% will sometimes get very vocal about their likes and dislikes --i have to admit that i do agree with them very often becasue i want the hal style to continue long after i am done cruising- yes i think someone should be turned away from the d/r if they are not properly dressed but i dont think keel hauling should be an option

[Bill S]

Laura: your post resonated with me to a great degree--I agree with your observations and sentiments. I like HAL the way it is and hope that it does not lose it's bearings and traditions in the ocean of mass marketing. I hope it does not become "an all things for all people" cruise line.

If I wanted to climb rock walls, bowl, ice skate and try to find the topless deck on a ship, I would choose a cruise line where those things were available (and to squelch potential flamers, "not that there is anything wrong" with those things). They are just not what I want in a cruise experience.

Herb: our first cruise on HAL was down in steerage at the extreme aft end of the ship and not for a moment did we feel that we were second class passengers. We were impressed by the service and friendliness of the crew, staff and other passengers. And, even though having a Cat S cabin is really nice, your table steward, the guys who work in the Lido, the yum-yum guy, the cruise staff all probably do not know what cabin you are in and I have seen no difference in the way we have been treated. That is the main reason we returned to HAL for all our cruises since then.

I can truly say that I have encountered only one person on a cruise who would possibly fit the mold of a snob, and they are not on this board, as far as I know. We have also really enjoyed meeting other CC posters on cruises-all very nice people. You will have a great time!

No one should have to apologize for liking their cruise line.

[fridayeyes]

Two issues are being conflated here, namely the difference between written shipboard rules or policies on the one hand, and differing cultural/personal mores on the other.

 

My take: The 'rules' are clear-cut, and I believe in following them. Dress formally for dinner on formal night or go to the Lido. Don't smuggle booze. Don't bring an iron or candles. Hot tubs with ages posted should not be inhabited by those younger than the sign says, etc. I do not always *agree* with the rules, but I support the concept that I agreed to them when I booked passage.

 

As for the socio-cultural, this gets complicated and delicate fast. Some people here have asserted that since most of HAL's pax are Americans, that the 'society' created should follow American standards, especially vis a vis the topless issue. But let's be clear here - there are no written rules or policies covering topless sunbathing either way. The argument given is that topless sunbathers should refrain from an activity they see as normal and harmless to avoid offending those with different sensibilities. Allow me to put this in another light. How many of you engage in the normal and harmless activity of sitting with one ankle propped on your knee, such that the sole of your shoe is clearly visible to passers-by? How many of you touch your plate, food, silverware or shared items such as butter dishes and bread baskets with your left hand? Those of you who do have just deeply offended and/or disgusted certain groups of people who are, in fact, quite likely to be aboard the ship.

 

Given that info, how many of you will now change your sitting position or your eating habits? If you are a left-hand eater, or an ankle-knee sitter, you may find yourself thinking that something so trivial shouldn't logically cause offense so why should you change? For a great many people, taking offense at seeing breasts is similarly trivial and illogical.

 

So, said with equal parts of seriousness and gentle teasing, if you expect people not to sunbathe topless out of deference to your sensibilities, I fully expect to see you sitting with both feet firmly on the floor and eating with only your right hand out of deference to the sensibilities of others. Similarly, if you are the sort who believes that a good heart can be seen in spite of cultural differences, then I hope you will politely avert your eyes and limit your comments to the lovely weather if the sunbather offends you. Those who are offended by the shoe or the left hand will hopefully do the same.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[krewzin]

I've said this before...I just don't see what the big deal is.

I don't understand what is so *difficult* about following the suggested guidelines of the cruise line?

[wander]

It never ceases to amaze me.

 

1. There are numerous mainstream cruise lines with different atmospheres, configurations, amenities, etc. and even different types of ships within some cruise lines. Then there are numerous smaller cruiselines with even more unique features. (The holes. Their size and shape vary widely.)

 

2. Individual people have a wide variety of interests, unique traits, habits, etc. What they are looking for in a cruise varies a great deal. (The pegs, their size and shape vary widely.)

 

3. NOW, why do people want to change the holes RATHER THAN look for a hole that fits the type of peg they are?

[jimbug]

Here's my input on the subject:

 

Not all of have the means (whether it be financial, logistical, or other) to go on the exact cruise that best fits our interests and sensibilities. For some, it may be a budget issue. For others, it may be that their companions out-voted them for a different trip. You get the picture.

 

What I'm trying to say is that rather than just reiterating (ad nauseum) that someone needs to find a different cruise line, why not be receptive to others' inquiries about HAL?

 

For instance, a new HAL cruiser posed the question about a topless deck. (For those not in the know, she simply asked if there was one, because she enjoyed that on another cruise line.) Many of the responses aimed at her kept telling her to go back to the cruiseline that had the topless deck...or go find another ship, blah blah blah. Can someone please tell me what is the harm in asking? Heaven forbid someone with different interests cruise HAL?!?

 

The whole point of my little schpiel here is simply this: If I am cruising on HAL for the first time, I may have some questions about what to expect once onboard. I might not have chosen this cruise for myself, so rather than telling me to go find another cruiseline that better matches my interests, please just help me find my niche on a HAL ship. If someone who enjoys the entertainment and interactive games on Carnival plans a cruise on HAL, give them information on when the pool area is most active...or when the best and liveliest shows are in the evenings. That is constructive information that really contributes to the experience of this message board. It is NOT constructive and certainly not in a kind spirit to simply tell people to cruise elsewhere. Some people may not be able to just book cruises on their preferences, for a variety of reasons. (Maybe it was a gift, or a family reunion trip, or they won it from a contest...etc.) You get my point. All I'm asking is just for all of us, on whatever cruise line we prefer, to provide constructive information to one another, and not to impose our personal viewpoints to stir the pot.

[RuthC]

And a cruise ship is not a society...

This sums up the difference in perception nicely. There are those who see themselves as part of a group---for whatever length of time that group exists. Then there are others who see themselves without connection to those around them who they do not know.

Strangers, in effect.

On the first night of my first HAL cruise the passengers were advised: "There are no strangers aboard this ship; there are not even acquaintances. There are only friends". We all proceeded to behave that way.

So long as our perceptions differ there will never be a meeting of the minds on this.

[fridayeyes]

Jimbug - Hear, hear!

 

So many fewer feathers would be ruffled - on both sides- if the answer to the question had been a simple "No, HAL does not have a designated topless deck."

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[ClothesHorseJoe]

Since beginning an earlier post regarding dress code, and still feeing the sting of the condesending replies, I have sat in the back seat of this arena watching battle after battle waged by a few posters. Regardless of your intention, some of you DO come off as snobs. Simple questions are met with "Oh here we go again", or "If you want to wear cut-off jeans to the dining room, go on Carnival"...When no one in their right mind would even consider doing that, and "cut-off jeans" were not even in the original question. You answer questions that are not even asked to justisfy your own convictions. People enter these boards to gain information and facts, and are met with rabid indignation. Those of you who are guilty of the venomous posts and incindiary flames know who you are. Those of you that answer questions with facts, support, and respect for the OP's, you know who you are too. Herb...I'm with you, If I was not a seasoned cruiser, this board would have scared the hell out of me, to the point I would have cancelled my cruise with HAL, but I also know that the "snobby" Posters represent a microscopic number of cruisers. BonsterSD, I wish you were going in March rather than October (I won't disclose my actual cruise date for fear that a flying soup spoon might "take me out" in the dining room) so that I could share a "Bucket of Beer" with you. Honestly, some of you really need to consider what you are writing BEFORE you hit the Enter Key.:cool:

[fridayeyes]

Joe, just make sure you are seated at a table for 8 or 10. The bread baskets are larger and make better helmets to ward off flying soup spoons. :)

 

You gave me a much-welcome giggle.

 

Thanks,

 

Friday

[watchdiva]

At the risk of being flamed, I'm going to post on this topic. When I first decided to cruise HAL, I immediately jumped over to the HAL boards to get a sense of what I could expect to experience on this new (to us) cruise line. The same threads about attire were present then (2005) and I see they are still rearing their (IMHO) ugly heads.

 

I do not understand why when us "new to the HAL board" posters raise a question about HAL, if the question can at all be construed as being on a controversial topic, we run the risk of being flamed? I keep hearing/reading about what a great cc community thrives on the HAL board, yet over the past 18 months I have truly been afraid to post comments for fear that I will be on the receiving side of the following: He/she is a troll (for those of us who do not have thousands of posts), He/she should cruise on another line - the old HAL is not for you line, etc., etc.

 

I could site more examples but why bother? I happen to enjoy cruising (20+ cruises) and enjoyed my experience enough on the Zuiderdam to have booked another cruise. I wish I could say that I have enjoyed my experiences on this board as much but that is not the case.

 

I am disappointed that what I initially saw as a welcoming community filled with fellow cruisers from whom I could learn from has (for me) become a not very enjoyable place to spend time.

 

I truly felt sorry for Herb and how some of my fellow cc members responded to him. I wondered if some of the responders would have spoken so disrespectfully to him had the "discussion" been of a face-to-face nature rather than rooted in an anonymous online forum.

 

We all have different opinions, different likes/dislikes and different ideas of what we want from a cruise. Is it really asking too much that all of us try to respect each other and not resort to what I perceive are often mean-spirited, petty comments?

[ClothesHorseJoe]

You go, Watchdiva!! I couldn't agree more! Just because you have been monitoring a board forever, and seem the same question posed 100 times, you don't have the right to disrespect a new poster!!! Those of you that see yourselves as the "Guardians of HAL" should be even more receptive to these questions! It gives you a chance to show newbies some of that "often discussed, but somewhat elusive" HAL pasenger charm.:)

[the2ofus]

Hmmm.......I'm thinking we all need a new tactic. When a newbie, or even an experienced cruiser asks a question or makes an observation and the thread degenerates into snobbery, condescension or flaming, we each need to become Topic Tampers.

 

In other words, when someone starts these senseless and often rude rants, we each need to post a simple message. "Dear Original Poster, your question or concern was legitimate. The answer was...yes, no, etc. Welcome aboard, hope you will love HAL as I do. Questions are always welcome here."

 

Hopefully the poster won't feel put-down.

 

If the diatribes get interrupted often enough, maybe the folks who like to stir the pot will get the message or give up.