No masks or social distancing on cruises!!

[TNcruising02]

8 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

This is a study i would highly highly doubt if i was reading it as even the actual vaccine doesnt give that.  Having had Covid I still chose the to get the shot.  Just extra protection in my personal opinion. 

Time will tell.  My mind remains open to all possibilities because it is too soon to tell with the vaccines or infections.

[TNcruising02]

10 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Well they are really the only ones left to get it other than the unvaccinated so is it really such a surprise that there is a spike?  Virus will spread to someone if it can.

Exactly.  People were locked down to prevent getting the virus.  It is common sense that once they are no longer locked down, the virus will continue to spread.  All lockdowns did was slow the process of a natural spread.  I'm not sure why people think lockdowns will stop a virus.  It's a virus.  Thankfully, there is a vaccine for high risk people and people who would prefer not to get covid.

Edited May 31, 2021 by TNcruising02

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

All lockdowns do is slow the process of a natural spread.

Agree with you on this.  We begin our reopen phase here tomorrow and sooo many tweets about how we should wait until it is "completely safe"  Never an explanation as to what they define as "completely safe" The vitriol in the comments after each update that is directed to our Provincial Chief Medical Officer from both sides is unbelievable.  BOTH sides only want to hear and follow the "science" that suits their own opinions.  

[bamaone]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Yet other countries have been cruising for months.  It's our country that is slow to open up an entire industry.

Well, it is about the only thing left they can control. What good will they be without having something they can control? Its pretty obvious they have no intentions of doing the job they should be doing.

 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Exactly.  People were locked down to prevent getting the virus.  It is common sense that once they are no longer locked down, the virus will continue to spread.  All lockdowns did was slow the process of a natural spread.  I'm not sure why people think lockdowns will stop a virus.  It's a virus.  Thankfully, there is a vaccine for high risk people and people who would prefer not to get covid.

In addition. Without being exposed to the virus your normal antibodies cannot fight it Lock down was so wrong.

[cscurlock]

3 hours ago, Radiioman46 said:

No where else in the country are there protocols different for either the vaccinated or unvaccinated. So, it should be the same for cruising on the ships. It shouldn't matter. 

 

Each cruise line should set their policy for all their passengers however they see fit.

 

The CDC is wrong by issuing a different set of protocols for each group. 

 

 

The CDC did not issue anything.  The cruise lines submitted their plan.  CDC gave them the rules based on the plan they were provided.   Foreign companies cruise ships are completely different than amusement parks.  If they want to flag their vessels in the US then they could easily set their rules as long as it didn't interfere with US laws.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Radiioman46 said:

No where else in the country are there protocols different for either the vaccinated or unvaccinated. So, it should be the same for cruising on the ships. It shouldn't matter. 

 

Each cruise line should set their policy for all their passengers however they see fit.

 

The CDC is wrong by issuing a different set of protocols for each group. 

 

 

One size fits all is the same as one size fits none. The least common denominator needs to be vaccinated at a minimum.

[jetsfan58]

5 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

In addition. Without being exposed to the virus your normal antibodies cannot fight it Lock down was so wrong.

Going back to schools which has caused major upswings in cases was wrong, allowing citizens to remove our mask prior to really studying the efficacy of the vaccines was wrong and not being considerate of others by not wearing your mask when advised is wrong. We are trying to move faster than the Experts are suggesting. Are we really that desperate as a Country for money? The love of money is a root to evil. Let's take our time, let the processes work for everyone's safety and lets eventually Cruise again. Stop Rushing The Process Please!!!

[cscurlock]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Exactly.  People were locked down to prevent getting the virus.  It is common sense that once they are no longer locked down, the virus will continue to spread.  All lockdowns did was slow the process of a natural spread.  I'm not sure why people think lockdowns will stop a virus.  It's a virus.  Thankfully, there is a vaccine for high risk people and people who would prefer not to get covid.

They were locked down to prevent the overwhelming of the hospital systems so that people who have other emergencies can get care.  If the hospital system is not overwhelmed then its just face coverings etc.  Its very hard as a politician to get the notice that they are going to start having to ration care and people are dieing when they shouldn't be.  Not a  good look.

[ChutChut]

12 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The CDC did not issue anything.  The cruise lines submitted their plan.  CDC gave them the rules based on the plan they were provided.   Foreign companies cruise ships are completely different than amusement parks.  If they want to flag their vessels in the US then they could easily set their rules as long as it didn't interfere with US laws.

Not exactly. Regardless of flagship, ships that dock in state-owned ports ARE subject to state/local laws and also are subject to the ADA as they are a public accommodation.

[ChutChut]

3 hours ago, Radiioman46 said:

No where else in the country are there protocols different for either the vaccinated or unvaccinated. So, it should be the same for cruising on the ships. It shouldn't matter. 

 

Each cruise line should set their policy for all their passengers however they see fit.

 

The CDC is wrong by issuing a different set of protocols for each group. 

 

 

Actually - no. It's a mix of federal, state, and local laws that govern cruise ships while at sea and while docked at a state-owned port. Private businesses are NOT allowed to dictate terms of service that invade the medical privacy of individuals, discriminate based upon medical status, etc. It's a myth private businesses get to operate as they see fit.

[bamaone]

11 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

Going back to schools which has caused major upswings in cases was wrong, allowing citizens to remove our mask prior to really studying the efficacy of the vaccines was wrong and not being considerate of others by not wearing your mask when advised is wrong. We are trying to move faster than the Experts are suggesting. Are we really that desperate as a Country for money? The love of money is a root to evil. Let's take our time, let the processes work for everyone's safety and lets eventually Cruise again. Stop Rushing The Process Please!!!

I disagree /with / everything / posted. In a respectful way of course, since it’s your right to believe which ever way you choose.

[jetsfan58]

2 minutes ago, bamaone said:

I disagree /with / everything / posted. In a respectful way of course, since it’s your right to believe which ever way you choose.

Thank you for the respect and thoughtfulness. This forum is a great tool for us to talk, listen, hear, agree to disagree and eventually and hopefully meet on the Seas. Thanks for being a part of this Cruise Nut Society.      

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

Actually - no. It's a mix of federal, state, and local laws that govern cruise ships while at sea and while docked at a state-owned port. Private businesses are NOT allowed to dictate terms of service that invade the medical privacy of individuals, discriminate based upon medical status, etc. It's a myth private businesses get to operate as they see fit.

Actually not. You forgot Maritime Law, the laws of whatever country the ship is flagged under, and more. It isn't black and white.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

21 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

Going back to schools which has caused major upswings in cases was wrong, allowing citizens to remove our mask prior to really studying the efficacy of the vaccines was wrong and not being considerate of others by not wearing your mask when advised is wrong. We are trying to move faster than the Experts are suggesting. Are we really that desperate as a Country for money? The love of money is a root to evil. Let's take our time, let the processes work for everyone's safety and lets eventually Cruise again. Stop Rushing The Process Please!!!

I agree, you are incorrect. It is your opinion and not fact. You are entitled to your opinion as I am. As for money. NO money or lack of it, is the root to all evil. So I guess over a year is rushing it? OK your opinion.

[BlerkOne]

12 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

Not exactly. Regardless of flagship, ships that dock in state-owned ports ARE subject to state/local laws and also are subject to the ADA as they are a public accommodation.

Only parts of ADA. State and local laws in violation of Federal law are obviously illegal.

[cscurlock]

12 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

Actually - no. It's a mix of federal, state, and local laws that govern cruise ships while at sea and while docked at a state-owned port. Private businesses are NOT allowed to dictate terms of service that invade the medical privacy of individuals, discriminate based upon medical status, etc. It's a myth private businesses get to operate as they see fit.

Yeah uh no,  The constitution under the commerce clause only allows Congress to pass laws governing foreign ships or companies in US ports.  The only time a state can intervene is if there is a threat to the state like when they blocked the holland america cruise ship last year. They also have power to regulate alcohol but that is under another amendment.  The states have no rights to interfere in a foreign owned companies business even at port. Its well laid out in the separation of powers in the constitution.  As long as the requirement for boarding originates from the ship then states have 0 power.  Only congress can pass a law to change that. 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

9 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Yeah uh no,  The constitution under the commerce clause only allows Congress to pass laws governing foreign ships or companies in US ports.  The only time a state can intervene is if there is a threat to the state like when they blocked the holland america cruise ship last year. They also have power to regulate alcohol but that is under another amendment.  The states have no rights to interfere in a foreign owned companies business even at port. Its well laid out in the separation of powers in the constitution.  As long as the requirement for boarding originates from the ship then states have 0 power.  Only congress can pass a law to change that. 

You might want to check on any business doing business in the state of Florida. Florida does have control of those companies on how they may conduct business in the state.

[BlerkOne]

11 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

You might want to check on any business doing business in the state of Florida. Florida does have control of those companies on how they may conduct business in the state.

"A much bigger eye-opener was the May 20 letter sent from Florida’s health department telling Royal Caribbean and Celebrity they could go directly to the CDC for permission to sail. “The Department has limited statutory authority with respect to cruise lines, and the Department’s permission is not required for your company to resume operations,” wrote Dr. Scott A. Rivkees, the Florida Surgeon General. “To be clear, nothing in state law stands in the way of cruise ship operations.” "

[cscurlock]

22 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

You might want to check on any business doing business in the state of Florida. Florida does have control of those companies on how they may conduct business in the state.

They are foreign flagged vessels which have their own rules when you are inside the ship.  Federal law is the only thing that applies inside the ship with the exception of alcohol sales or if they state determines there is a direct threat to the state from the ship.  Again well laid out in the constitution in the commerce clause and case precedent.  A cruise is considered foreign commerce and the constitution only gives Congress the powers to regulate that.  That's why there is this sweet thing called a cruise contract you have to sign before boarding the ship where you give all your rights away and if you don't you cannot board.  Once on the ship its federal laws with the 2 exception I mentioned above until outside US waters.

Edited May 31, 2021 by cscurlock

[cscurlock]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

"A much bigger eye-opener was the May 20 letter sent from Florida’s health department telling Royal Caribbean and Celebrity they could go directly to the CDC for permission to sail. “The Department has limited statutory authority with respect to cruise lines, and the Department’s permission is not required for your company to resume operations,” wrote Dr. Scott A. Rivkees, the Florida Surgeon General. “To be clear, nothing in state law stands in the way of cruise ship operations.” "

Exactly, unless the ship is a threat to the state say by a viral infection or something they are limited on anything they can do to interfere in the ships business.

[bamaone]

4 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

They are foreign flagged vessels which have their own rules when you are inside the ship.  Federal law is the only thing that applies inside the ship with the exception of alcohol sales or if they state determines there is a direct threat to the state from the ship.  Again well laid out in the constitution in the commerce clause and case precedent.  A cruise is considered foreign commerce and the constitution only gives Congress the powers to regulate that.  That's why there is this sweet thing called a cruise contract you have to sign before boarding the ship where you give all your rights away and if you don't you cannot board.  Once on the ship its federal laws with the 2 exception I mentioned above.  

I think both sides are correct to an extent. I work for a company that does business at a state owned port. All ships that come into that port abide by state dock laws. State dock laws do not have anything to do with what happens on board that ship. But they control everything about how the ship is docked, the products added or removed and personnel who can board & debarked from that docked ship. The Coast Guard oversees anything involving water vessels no matter what flag that vessel flies. Immigration Control also has authority over non US citizens leaving docked vessels. 

[cscurlock]

14 minutes ago, bamaone said:

I think both sides are correct to an extent. I work for a company that does business at a state owned port. All ships that come into that port abide by state dock laws. State dock laws do not have anything to do with what happens on board that ship. But they control everything about how the ship is docked, the products added or removed and personnel who can board & debarked from that docked ship. The Coast Guard oversees anything involving water vessels no matter what flag that vessel flies. Immigration Control also has authority over non US citizens leaving docked vessels. 

Correct, I am specifically talking about the business from inside the ship while in US waters.  The rules governing who is allowed to board the ship comes from inside the ship.  Whatever happens at the port, the gangway etc is under state jurisdiction.  But the approval and rules to board the vessel comes from inside the ship.

[jetsfan58]

1 hour ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I agree, you are incorrect. It is your opinion and not fact. You are entitled to your opinion as I am. As for money. NO money or lack of it, is the root to all evil. So I guess over a year is rushing it? OK your opinion.

It is certainly rushing it if we are still counting positive cases, increasing hospitalizations and unfortunate deaths (all attributed to Covid). Is anything we read factual? I whole heartily and respectfully disagree with your your commentary. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having wealth and money. The issue begins when those "Blessings" overtake logic and the greed to have more intensifies. That's the Evil.

[BlerkOne]

27 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

It is certainly rushing it if we are still counting positive cases, increasing hospitalizations and unfortunate deaths (all attributed to Covid). Is anything we read factual? I whole heartily and respectfully disagree with your your commentary. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having wealth and money. The issue begins when those "Blessings" overtake logic and the greed to have more intensifies. That's the Evil.

and now there is a new variant discovered in Vietnam that seems to be very dangerous. We ain't done.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57303306