Question for Unvax'd who have July/August/Sept Carnival cruises booked...

[dandeck]

17 hours ago, sm3ds said:

You really think 134 million people take cruises. Com’on Man. 

Over 52% fully vaccinated.  Over 60% have had at least one shot.  80% of those surveyed want vaccines required.  Those 80% are or will be vaccinated for sure.  Capacity won't be an issue if vaccines are required.  We have 8 currently scheduled from Nov to Feb.  No way we'd board if not required.  However, not worried because no way the industry would risk unvaccinated.  That would be industry suicide.  

[kleibo]

8 minutes ago, dandeck said:

Over 52% fully vaccinated.  Over 60% have had at least one shot.  

 

Source please - I don't see that on the CDC website.  Or are you talking just people over 18?

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations   

[Flytko]

2 hours ago, mpdog42 said:

Have you even talked to Carnival about your situation?

I have talked to my PVP about it and recommended to push out my final payment. When I booked last week, it only gave me until June 14th to pay it off.  I was able to push off my payment until July 14th to give time to see what Carnival was going to say about cruising in August.  As soon as they made a decision then that would make our decision and would get in touch with them again.

 

A little bit of background from our perspective:

 

I wouldn't consider my wife and I anti-vaxxers by a long shot. Last year when they were still in testing, my wife actually signed up to test the first vaccine they brought to market.  My wife is the Nurse Manager for the largest Ambulatory clinic in the UTMB Health System close to Galveston.  She ended up getting denied for the test trial due to having and Upper Respiratory Infection (not related to COVID) and having to take steroids to clear it up.  We both signed up to get the vaccine when it was first made available.  My wife was a week away from getting the first shot when she found out that she had COVID.  She ultimately had to cancel.  Her mother and grandmother live with us, we chose to have them vaccinated as well as my mother who lives in Galveston.  I had signed up for the shot since I was eligible at the time due to a couple of minor underlying conditions.  They cancelled my first dose when they ran out of shipments.  I started doing more research into the vaccines and saw how many adverse effects it was having on the population.  At the time, my wife wasn't truly convinced until she got assigned to work in the vaccine clinics and saw how many people were having issues, including some of her own staff.  She knew then it was not a good idea at this time to take the mRNA vaccines.  We were leaning towards the J and J vaccine as it is somewhat more traditional.  We were also trying to have another child through treatment and heard of how many possible miscarriages were happening with the vaccine possible to blame.  Our fertility office was recommending everybody be vaccinated, but our fertility doctor was urging us to wait.  Lastly, even though my mother in law who lives with us was fully vaccinated, she still managed to get the COVID, luckily a very mild case.

 

Anyway, that's my story to share since the unvaccinated voice seems to be in the vocal minority.

 

I don't tell people not to get it, but the important thing is, do your research and make it your choice, not because someone is constantly telling you that you need to, or for the "greater good" 

 

Depending on what Carnival does, more than likely we will be taking our hard earned money elsewhere until this madness calms down.

[balcony bound]

1 hour ago, Branman said:

 

Why are you talking about protecting people onboard the ship? The precautions aren't in place to protect them, the precautions are in place to enable calling on ports who don't have access to vaccines. I'm not against having un-vaccinated cruises to nowhere with no social distancing requirements for people who have access to vaccines-- that's a personal choice for those unvaccinated and more power to them. However, ports are well within their rights as sovereign nations to deny docking to ships that have coronavirus cases on board. Until vaccines have been available across the Caribbean, you will see precautions in place.

I posted this in another thread, regarding excursions.  Yes, it seems our cruising destinations are being cautious.  This was posted on the Celebrity forum by someone currently on a cruise (embarked in St. Marten)

 

"Today we are in Curaçao and things seem to be a little more restrictive than Aruba. Our tour is required to stay in the “bubble.”  Hand sanitizing before we enter the bus each time. 
We are at Mambo beach and cruise passengers are in a sectioned spot of the beach, which is very nice, with plenty of room. We are not allowed to approach the bar or grill. Everything will be brought to us. 
We have to wear masks at all times unless we are in our beach chairs or in the water. If someone from the cruise ship needs to use the bathroom, the bathroom is closed to other guests, we are allowed to use it and then it is cleaned. 
 

Things are much less restrictive than Barbados, but a little more locked down than Aruba. "

 

[Buckeyefrank100]

4 hours ago, Flytko said:

 

Thank you!!!!!

 

 I have been lurking for the last week on my phone, and you are right, there is almost nothing mentioned about the people that had and recovered from COVID.  My family and I had it over the Christmas holidays, thankfully very mild, my wife tested for antibodies last month and found out that she still had them. Her doctor told her that you have antibodies, it's not logical to get the vaccine.  I plan on having getting the test as well.

 

We did travel to Disney not long after we recovered, and despite all of their protocols, everyone had a great time.  It was plenty crowded for being at 35 percent capacity, we had no issues at all with flying and being in the parks.

 

  Unfortunately, everyone is high and mighty on the vaccine talk and forgets that there are plenty of people who recovered and have immunity.  I booked for an August cruise on the Breeze last week with the intent that Carnival was going to go the test cruise route.  Now, I am really reconsidering what to do.  I was able to push back my final payment until next month just to see what they say for the August cruises.  If they do the exemption list, we could get our 5 yr old twins on it, but I know we wouldn't make it since no one bats an eye at natural immunity.

 

 We were really hoping on cruising, but with the uncertainty and the collective mood I have been seeing, we will probably wait. 

 

Go ahead and flame away........  Just my 2 cents

I completely agree with you but will correct one point you made.  You mention that you still have antibodies...  Antibodies will go away, usually in about 3 months but can hang around later but it doesn't mean you're not protected.  Your body has T-cells that can remember viruses that attacked the body in the past.  Those T-cells will reproduce antibodies if you are exposed and eliminate the virus.  T-cells have been shown to be with you for life.  In 1998, a study was done on people who were infected with the 1918 flu.  Those people were exposed to the 1918 flu strain and in a few days, they were tested to have antibodies again.

[TNcruising02]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Again, these are things that are being assumed due to our self-induced panic. You may be right, you may not be. What if these things never happen? 

 

If half of cruisers have vaccine immunity. "X" percentage have the taboo natural immunity. 100% of crew are vaccinated, we have what 70-80%+ of the ship with an immunity? How many of the rest would never even show symptoms IF they caught it? No need for math that says well "20-30%" of a ship is a lot of people. We know that. That is not how COVID is spreading though. All while panicking over the health of the 1% of society at risk who SHOULD be the focus of vaccination. It's ridiculous that we would shut down everything for a few cases.

 

 

I see you aren't in marketing.

 

Not only are the odds of a severe case low with all of the crew vaccinated, a huge percentage of the high risk passengers vaccinated, and another good percentage of the passengers who have recovered from covid, but add testing of all vaccinated passengers before boarding.  The end of the cruising scenarios just aren't realistic.

[Flytko]

3 minutes ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

I completely agree with you but will correct one point you made.  You mention that you still have antibodies...  Antibodies will go away, usually in about 3 months but can hang around later but it doesn't mean you're not protected.  Your body has T-cells that can remember viruses that attacked the body in the past.  Those T-cells will reproduce antibodies if you are exposed and eliminate the virus.  T-cells have been shown to be with you for life.  In 1998, a study was done on people who were infected with the 1918 flu.  Those people were exposed to the 1918 flu strain and in a few days, they were tested to have antibodies again.

Point well made and taken, still a lot of studies being conducted on the effectiveness of natural immunity and how long it lasts.  At least it could be taken into consideration though....

[sm3ds]

27 minutes ago, kleibo said:

 

Source please - I don't see that on the CDC website.  Or are you talking just people over 18?

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations   

Yes that's what he is referring too. 

[Eli_6]

21 hours ago, jsglow said:

Yeah, I saw that too as I read further.  Expect those numbers to be exceptionally low.  What it doesn't seem to include is the 'I don't want to be vaxxed' guy.

This is correct. My husband is a physician and was actually looking up who should not receive the vaccine for medical reasons and it is almost no one.  Even patients who might have been advised against certain other vaccines are being told to get the MRNA vaccines. 

[Chief1369]

3 hours ago, asalligo said:

This is so true, we are such a small sliver of the cruise market. Literally no one I know who cruises talks about it on any board like we do. Much of Carnival's market is rural America. 

What does rural America have to do with anything? It may shock you to know that we've figured out the interwebs here too.

[Eli_6]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/underlying-conditions.html?s_cid=10485:who should not take the covid vaccine:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21

 

CDC is recommending the vax for people with HIV, autoimmune diseases and even Cancer patients.  Even people with a history of Guillaine-Barre (who previously have been told not to get the flu vaccine) are being told to get it.  So there are not going to be too many adults who would fit within the medical exception.

[bdever]

44 minutes ago, Flytko said:

I have talked to my PVP about it and recommended to push out my final payment. When I booked last week, it only gave me until June 14th to pay it off.  I was able to push off my payment until July 14th to give time to see what Carnival was going to say about cruising in August.  As soon as they made a decision then that would make our decision and would get in touch with them again.

 

A little bit of background from our perspective:

 

I wouldn't consider my wife and I anti-vaxxers by a long shot. Last year when they were still in testing, my wife actually signed up to test the first vaccine they brought to market.  My wife is the Nurse Manager for the largest Ambulatory clinic in the UTMB Health System close to Galveston.  She ended up getting denied for the test trial due to having and Upper Respiratory Infection (not related to COVID) and having to take steroids to clear it up.  We both signed up to get the vaccine when it was first made available.  My wife was a week away from getting the first shot when she found out that she had COVID.  She ultimately had to cancel.  Her mother and grandmother live with us, we chose to have them vaccinated as well as my mother who lives in Galveston.  I had signed up for the shot since I was eligible at the time due to a couple of minor underlying conditions.  They cancelled my first dose when they ran out of shipments.  I started doing more research into the vaccines and saw how many adverse effects it was having on the population.  At the time, my wife wasn't truly convinced until she got assigned to work in the vaccine clinics and saw how many people were having issues, including some of her own staff.  She knew then it was not a good idea at this time to take the mRNA vaccines.  We were leaning towards the J and J vaccine as it is somewhat more traditional.  We were also trying to have another child through treatment and heard of how many possible miscarriages were happening with the vaccine possible to blame.  Our fertility office was recommending everybody be vaccinated, but our fertility doctor was urging us to wait.  Lastly, even though my mother in law who lives with us was fully vaccinated, she still managed to get the COVID, luckily a very mild case.

 

Anyway, that's my story to share since the unvaccinated voice seems to be in the vocal minority.

 

I don't tell people not to get it, but the important thing is, do your research and make it your choice, not because someone is constantly telling you that you need to, or for the "greater good" 

 

Depending on what Carnival does, more than likely we will be taking our hard earned money elsewhere until this madness calms down.

While I completely understand and respect ✊🏼 your personal choice it doesn’t sound like a cruise vacation is right for you. At least not for the foreseeable future. Not only from the perspective of the cruise lines needing to mitigate risks but also in terms of your own family’s vacation value. Did you hear about 2 positive cases reported on MSC Seaside this week? The 2 passengers, their families and the other passengers who came into contact with them while on board were all isolated and the positive passengers and their families were taken off the ship at the next port. Note that this was their 3rd COVID test of the cruise so it’s not about testing negative prior to boarding. This could have been you and your family as well.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7627317002

[bdever]

46 minutes ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

I completely agree with you but will correct one point you made.  You mention that you still have antibodies...  Antibodies will go away, usually in about 3 months but can hang around later but it doesn't mean you're not protected.  Your body has T-cells that can remember viruses that attacked the body in the past.  Those T-cells will reproduce antibodies if you are exposed and eliminate the virus.  T-cells have been shown to be with you for life.  In 1998, a study was done on people who were infected with the 1918 flu.  Those people were exposed to the 1918 flu strain and in a few days, they were tested to have antibodies again.

Okay so here’s the deal with the lovely antibodies testing 🤦🏻‍♀️. Antibodies and T-cells/B-cells are two different things. Antibody tests can’t reveal what’s going on at the cellular level and do not measure it. Because there is a difference, in theory someone could have no antibodies or low antibodies post infection BUT have a high T-cell/B-cell response post infection or Vis-versa. So in order to take into consideration one’s protection against the virus you would need to analyze both an antibody test and a cellular test. Secondly, everyone’s antibody level either post infection or post vaccination are completely different (like fingerprints) based on one’s individual biological make up and medical history. Because everyone’s antibody levels and cellular response is different there is really no good system in place for comparison or measurement. For this reason the CDC and medical community as a whole is discouraging antibody testing: 1. It doesn’t provide a complete picture, 2. Results can’t be measured and quantified. I suspect this is why the cruise lines will not take into consideration antibody tests.

[jfunk138]

32 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

Don't you know your not supposed to talk about all the adverse reactions. It's a secret. 

Uh oh, apparently CDC didn't get the memo about adverse reactions:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/10/covid-vaccine-cdc-says-heart-inflammation-cases-in-16-to-24-year-olds-higher-than-expected-after-second-shot.html

 

"The number of cases of a heart inflammation condition in 16- to 24-year-olds was higher than expected after they received their second dose of Pfizer’s or Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccines, the CDC said"

[graphicguy]

5 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Uh oh, apparently CDC didn't get the memo about adverse reactions:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/10/covid-vaccine-cdc-says-heart-inflammation-cases-in-16-to-24-year-olds-higher-than-expected-after-second-shot.html

 

"The number of cases of a heart inflammation condition in 16- to 24-year-olds was higher than expected after they received their second dose of Pfizer’s or Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccines, the CDC said"

Here's the rest of the info....

 

" The limited data shows that most of the patients had a full recovery from their symptoms."

[jfunk138]

Just now, graphicguy said:

Here's the rest of the info....

 

" The limited data shows that most of the patients had a full recovery from their symptoms."

And the vast amount of data on Covid patients in the 16-24 age range, shows that 99.998% of the patients had a full recovery from their symptoms. 

 

Sucks to be the 19% of vaccine-linked myocarditis patients who still haven't recovered.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

Here's the rest of the info....

 

" The limited data shows that most of the patients had a full recovery from their symptoms."

But nobody really knows if there will be any future issues.  The risk for a healthy 16 to 24 year old having a severe reaction to a covid infection is very low.   The vaccine is a harder sell for a healthy young person than for an elderly person or someone with a disease. Maybe it will come to be seen that younger people are better off with just one dose of the vaccine. 

[jfunk138]

Because of this myocarditis issue along with the other unknowns from this new vaccine technology, Germany will not recommend the vaccine for healthy children under 18.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-panel-gives-limited-approval-covid-19-shot-adolescents-2021-06-10/

"not currently recommending the use of the vaccine for those aged 12-17 without pre-existing conditions"

Edited June 10, 2021 by jfunk138

[Buckeyefrank100]

34 minutes ago, bdever said:

Okay so here’s the deal with the lovely antibodies testing 🤦🏻‍♀️. Antibodies and T-cells/B-cells are two different things. Antibody tests can’t reveal what’s going on at the cellular level and do not measure it. Because there is a difference, in theory someone could have no antibodies or low antibodies post infection BUT have a high T-cell/B-cell response post infection or Vis-versa. So in order to take into consideration one’s protection against the virus you would need to analyze both an antibody test and a cellular test. Secondly, everyone’s antibody level either post infection or post vaccination are completely different (like fingerprints) based on one’s individual biological make up and medical history. Because everyone’s antibody levels and cellular response is different there is really no good system in place for comparison or measurement. For this reason the CDC and medical community as a whole is discouraging antibody testing: 1. It doesn’t provide a complete picture, 2. Results can’t be measured and quantified. I suspect this is why the cruise lines will not take into consideration antibody tests.

The point I'm trying to make is that the "experts" including Fauci, CDC, WHO, FB, AP, CBS, NBC, etc. who knows everything were all over the place telling everyone they could that once the antibodies go away, their protection is gone.  That is NOT the case.  To this day, they still won't admit that natural immunity lasts beyond antibodies.

 

[dandeck]

1 hour ago, kleibo said:

 

Source please - I don't see that on the CDC website.  Or are you talking just people over 18?

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations   

Yes, adults 18+.  Although I am amazed at the high % of those 12 and up herein!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

[bdever]

4 minutes ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

The point I'm trying to make is that the "experts" including Fauci, CDC, WHO, FB, AP, CBS, NBC, etc. who knows everything were all over the place telling everyone they could that once the antibodies go away, their protection is gone.  That is NOT the case.  To this day, they still won't admit that natural immunity lasts beyond antibodies.

 

No one knows, that’s the point. The only advice you can trust is that of your own personal physician upon the completion of your doctor conducting a series of tests at the cellular level and even that is dependent on your physician being able to make a quantified judgment outside of “We just don’t know yet” upon reviewing your individual results. It would be very prudent to be skeptical of anyone who states definitively one way or the other concerning natural immunity post infection and for that reason Carnival is not going to take any chances. 

[graphicguy]

34 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

But nobody really knows if there will be any future issues.  The risk for a healthy 16 to 24 year old having a severe reaction to a covid infection is very low.   The vaccine is a harder sell for a healthy young person than for an elderly person or someone with a disease. Maybe it will come to be seen that younger people are better off with just one dose of the vaccine. 

Well...sounds like 18-24 years olds probably shouldn't cruise given they can possibly have future issues.  Perhaps come back in 90-days when there's more data available for them.

 

GERMANY....the rest of their announcement...

 

 

Germany has said it plans to offer shots to children as young as 12 from June after the European health regulator authorised the vaccine for use in adolescents last month.

STIKO committee member Ruediger von Kriess, a paediatrics professor, said previously it might be preferable to endorse the vaccine for use in children only if they have risk factors given the lack of data on long-term effects.

[JEANMR1]

1 hour ago, bdever said:

Okay so here’s the deal with the lovely antibodies testing 🤦🏻‍♀️. Antibodies and T-cells/B-cells are two different things. Antibody tests can’t reveal what’s going on at the cellular level and do not measure it. Because there is a difference, in theory someone could have no antibodies or low antibodies post infection BUT have a high T-cell/B-cell response post infection or Vis-versa. So in order to take into consideration one’s protection against the virus you would need to analyze both an antibody test and a cellular test. Secondly, everyone’s antibody level either post infection or post vaccination are completely different (like fingerprints) based on one’s individual biological make up and medical history. Because everyone’s antibody levels and cellular response is different there is really no good system in place for comparison or measurement. For this reason the CDC and medical community as a whole is discouraging antibody testing: 1. It doesn’t provide a complete picture, 2. Results can’t be measured and quantified. I suspect this is why the cruise lines will not take into consideration antibody tests.

Thanks for the explanation!

[elcuchio24]

20 minutes ago, bdever said:

No one knows, that’s the point. The only advice you can trust is that of your own personal physician upon the completion of your doctor conducting a series of tests at the cellular level and even that is dependent on your physician being able to make a quantified judgment outside of “We just don’t know yet” upon reviewing your individual results. It would be very prudent to be skeptical of anyone who states definitively one way or the other concerning natural immunity post infection and for that reason Carnival is not going to take any chances. 

 

Right. You cant have any 'resuts of a 5 year study of XXXXX' when this thing has only existed for 18 months. No one knows. Is what it is. 

[jfunk138]

2 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

I read the study they are doing in Isreal on that. It's something like 1 in 3000 and that's with Pzifer, but don't worry the CDC says it's easily treated with steroids and a few thousand dollars in medical bills. 

Yep, "Great news, 81% fully recovered from myocarditis, pay no attention to the 19% with a long term debilitating illness"