Protocols for Unvaccinated Guests on Freedom of the Seas cruises starting July 2

[3kidsncats]

59 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The rule should be if you're not eligible for the vaccine, you shouldn't have to wear a mask

Except that if you aren’t eligible for the vaccine (not talking about kids) then you must have a significant health issue.  If you have a significant health issue that means the vaccine is contraindicated, then you probably should wear a mask more than most.  And maybe wait on cruising and extended travel.  I know I wouldn’t go on a plane or a cruise if I wasn’t eligible for the vaccine.

[poocher]

7 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

We have no less immunity than do vaccinated folks.  Any statement otherwise is merely a sentiment and not only not supported by science but also is supported by more and more emerging studies. [Props to the scientists actually bothering to look.] That science has been made clear and continues to be made clear.  SARS 1 folks are immune to this day 18 years later.  SARS 1 folks are immune from SARS 2. COVID survivors have a robust humoral immune response. Ad nauseum....I've yet to see any study that says "Covid survivors are not immune to getting it again."  Nor have any clinical trials been done on COVID survivors in terms of added efficacy, let alone side effects.

 

I'm immune.

 

- The Forgotten 20

I’m sorry but how do you, or anyone, know for how long?  Not being snarky, I truly want to know how.  At most, the first people infected and recovered have been immune for 15 months.   I am recovered from Covid and got the vaccine as soon as I was able.  I don’t know when or if my immunity will end.  I feel much safer having gotten the vaccine.  It was fast and painless and little enough to do for my peace of mind.

[Catnip]

59 minutes ago, sept10dsm said:

The recovered do not matter anywhere it seems!  There have been quite a few doctors and others including the NIH stating the value of recovered but it's just ignored.  

AMEN!

 

[Tippyton]

7 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

Apparently you aren’t reading all the studies.

I've read plenty.  All would be a tall order.  I'm immune.  I'd like to see a study that says otherwise.  Not denying vaccines work, and I'm not even denying that vaccines would be a boost to immunity.  But I already have a "bulletproof vest", so I have no need for a second one.

 

Lots of readings here referenced and linked.  The science....

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-study-finds-natural-covid-immunity-lasts-almost-a-year-undermining-lockdown-vax-push

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

[3kidsncats]

Just now, poocher said:

I’m sorry but how do you, or anyone, know for how long?  Not being snarky, I truly want to know how.  At most, the first people infected and recovered have been immune for 15 months.   I am recovered from Covid and got the vaccine as soon as I was able.  I don’t know when or if my immunity will end.  I feel much safer having gotten the vaccine.  It was fast and painless and little enough to do for my peace of mind.

That’s a great question.  There are definitely studies showing robust immune response for recovered patients, but there are also studies showing that not everyone has a robust immunity.  And they are seeing that when the antibodies decline, they seem to do so quite rapidly— so how do you know whether you are the 3 month person, or the 15 month person?    Even with the vaccine, we have to pay attention to see if and when immune response wanes.  Last study showed at least 6 months of solid immunity.  Hoping we get another update soon.

[3kidsncats]

Just now, Tippyton said:

I've read plenty.  All would be a tall order.  I'm immune.  I'd like to see a study that says otherwise.  Not denying vaccines work, and I'm not even denying that vaccines would be a boost to immunity.  But I already have a "bulletproof vest", so I have no need for a second one.

 

Lots of readings here referenced and linked.  The science....

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-study-finds-natural-covid-immunity-lasts-almost-a-year-undermining-lockdown-vax-push

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

I wish you well, but I don’t agree with you in your “absolute” belief.  

[sept10dsm]

13 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

And more studies showing more of us had it than we even realized.  

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

AND many of the young people with the heart issues are found to have had it. 

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

The rule should be if you're not eligible for the vaccine, you shouldn't have to wear a mask

That makes no sense at all. Eligibility has nothing to do with the ability to spread the virus. The idea of masking is to mitigate the spread of the virus. Kids can still spread the virus so there needs to be mitigation among those kids. They need to mask up.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, Heymarco said:

 

I think you intended this for @coffeebean.

I don't have any cruises booked so I didn't receive an email from Royal about children under 2 not needing to mask up.

[Tippyton]

6 minutes ago, poocher said:

I’m sorry but how do you, or anyone, know for how long?  Not being snarky, I truly want to know how.  At most, the first people infected and recovered have been immune for 15 months.   I am recovered from Covid and got the vaccine as soon as I was able.  I don’t know when or if my immunity will end.  I feel much safer having gotten the vaccine.  It was fast and painless and little enough to do for my peace of mind.

Not going to knock your choice at all and no need to justify what you did - I get it.  Of all the reading I've done, we don't know because it is "novel", so 15 months is all we have.  But there are clues.  SARS 1 from 2003 and SARS 2 are very closely related.  SARS 1 survivors are still immune.  SARS 1 survivors are immune from SARS 2.  Lots of speculation because we truly don't know, but there is a lean towards very long term immunity.  Viruses mutate, generally to be less deadly but more contagious.  The public fear is a mutation will end up escaping the built up immunity to prior variants.  Having said that, the fact that the current mutations have been similar and are I think "simultaneous convergence" - meaning the same mutation occurs independently, makes the likelihood (from what I've heard) of some untoward mutation that kills us all very unlikely [so long as we quit messing with bats].

[Tippyton]

8 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

I wish you well, but I don’t agree with you in your “absolute” belief.  

Hmmm.  I feel like I just got waived off with a "tuk tuk".  At least I can provide ample backup to my statements.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, sept10dsm said:

The recovered do not matter anywhere it seems!  There have been quite a few doctors and others including the NIH stating the value of recovered but it's just ignored.  

I value the recovered as they help us reach herd immunity.

[xpcdoojk]

Just now, coffeebean said:

I value the recovered as they help us reach herd immunity.

How do they help?  O, O, I know they are immune...

 

ipso facto

 

QED

[3kidsncats]

Just now, Tippyton said:

Hmmm.  I feel like I just got waived off with a "tuk tuk".  At least I can provide ample backup to my statements.

I was trying to respect your opinion, but you go ahead and do you 🙄

[sept10dsm]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

I value the recovered as they help us reach herd immunity.

Thank you .  It's sad but never included in all the talk. 

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, Heymarco said:

 

I think you intended this for @coffeebean.

I just love seeing my name in lights. LOL.

[Tippyton]

13 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

That’s a great question.  There are definitely studies showing robust immune response for recovered patients, but there are also studies showing that not everyone has a robust immunity.  And they are seeing that when the antibodies decline, they seem to do so quite rapidly— so how do you know whether you are the 3 month person, or the 15 month person?    Even with the vaccine, we have to pay attention to see if and when immune response wanes.  Last study showed at least 6 months of solid immunity.  Hoping we get another update soon.

Paraphrased...."Anitbodies wane over time - it's  normal,  I've been exposed to dozens of viruses and bacteria over my life.  If I still had active antibodies in my blood for all of them, my blood would be a thick goo."

- Dr. John Campbell, May 30th video on Youtube.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

[sept10dsm]

8 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Paraphrased...."Anitbodies wane over time - it's  normal,  I've been exposed to dozens of viruses and bacteria over my life.  If I still had active antibodies in my blood for all of them, my blood would be a thick goo."

- Dr. John Campbell, May 30th video on Youtube.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

It's the Tcells and bone marrow that remember and protect the recovered as well

[coffeebean]

53 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

We have no less immunity than do vaccinated folks.  Any statement otherwise is merely a sentiment and not only not supported by science but also is supported by more and more emerging studies. [Props to the scientists actually bothering to look.] That science has been made clear and continues to be made clear.  SARS 1 folks are immune to this day 18 years later.  SARS 1 folks are immune from SARS 2. COVID survivors have a robust humoral immune response. Ad nauseum....I've yet to see any study that says "Covid survivors are not immune to getting it again."  Nor have any clinical trials been done on COVID survivors in terms of added efficacy, let alone side effects.

 

I'm immune.

 

- The Forgotten 20

I have heard expert doctors claim that natural immunity does not protect against the variants as well as vaccine immunity. I wish it were not so but there seems to be a consensus about this. I have not had Covid but am vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and so far, I feel pretty safe against these variants out there.

[3kidsncats]

20 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Paraphrased...."Anitbodies wane over time - it's  normal,  I've been exposed to dozens of viruses and bacteria over my life.  If I still had active antibodies in my blood for all of them, my blood would be a thick goo."

- Dr. John Campbell, May 30th video on Youtube.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

It does indeed, which is why I can’t understand why you are so convinced of your absolute immunity

[coffeebean]

42 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

That’s a great question.  There are definitely studies showing robust immune response for recovered patients, but there are also studies showing that not everyone has a robust immunity.  And they are seeing that when the antibodies decline, they seem to do so quite rapidly— so how do you know whether you are the 3 month person, or the 15 month person?    Even with the vaccine, we have to pay attention to see if and when immune response wanes.  Last study showed at least 6 months of solid immunity.  Hoping we get another update soon.

But.....what about the immune system's T cells and B cells? They are the memory cells that will begin production of antibodies when the body is invaded once again by a pathogen. I know antibodies don't last forever with natural immunity or vaccine immunity so those "soldiers" are what gives us lasting immunity to a disease. Isn't that correct?

[coffeebean]

43 minutes ago, sept10dsm said:

AND many of the young people with the heart issues are found to have had it. 

Really? I was not aware of that. Now THAT makes a lot of sense. Covid does cause Myocarditis among lots of other major organ damage.

[ReneeFLL]

1 hour ago, sept10dsm said:

The recovered do not matter anywhere it seems!  There have been quite a few doctors and others including the NIH stating the value of recovered but it's just ignored.  

If those that have recovered get the vaccine and show proof I would think it would be good enough.

[cruisegus]

17 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I have heard expert doctors claim that natural immunity does not protect against the variants as well as vaccine immunity. I wish it were not so but there seems to be a consensus about this. I have not had Covid but am vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and so far, I feel pretty safe against these variants out there.

These that rave about the "natural immunity" and the un-Vaxer's are the one that are prolonging the problem with this pandemic.

Of course we all know that the scientific data shows that the un-educated and lower income populace are those who are more likely to not get vaccinated. That is just the facts whether you like them or not.

[3kidsncats]

19 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

But.....what about the immune system's T cells and B cells? They are the memory cells that will begin production of antibodies when the body is invaded once again by a pathogen. I know antibodies don't last forever with natural immunity or vaccine immunity so those "soldiers" are what gives us lasting immunity to a disease. Isn't that correct?

Definitely plays an important part — my argument is not that robust immunity is not possible, my argument is that it doesn’t seem to be as consistent across the population, like some other viruses.  So without each individual being regularly tested, they don’t actually know their own status.  And, studies are indicating that convalescent immunity is not proving as effective against some of the variants.  

Edited June 20, 2021 by 3kidsncats