Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

You left this little detail out:

Federal law and Amtrak policy require all customers and employees to wear a mask or covering that fully covers the entire mouth and nose, fits snugly against the side of the face, and secures under the chin at all times while onboard trains and in stations, regardless of vaccination status or state or local laws

Yes, that's the sucky part. Hopefully we will have a release of the masks regulation.

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, arkaine23 said:

There aren't 3000-6000 people on any train.  A train trip across the US doesn't take a week.  The train doesn't stop in a foreign county with low vaccination availability to let its passengers off for half a day.

 

No, there aren't thousands of people, but there are hundreds who don't have to show any proof they've been vaccinated and don't need to be tested. 

 

And you've obviously never heard of Amtrak Vacations. This isn't just a "train trip across the US. They cross from the US into Canada, letting passengers off for a full-day or half-day to explore cities and national parks. These aren't your typical trains used to get from point A to point B.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 Do the ports that Carnival’s ships are sailing to only allow vaccinated people to visit? 

Many require testing that vaccination might get you out of. and if someone tests positive there will be consequences.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

And you've obviously never heard of Amtrak Vacations. This isn't just a "train trip across the US. They cross from the US into Canada, letting passengers off for a full-day or half-day to explore cities and national parks. These aren't your typical trains used to get from point A to point B.

Not currently.

[SRQbeachgirl]

5 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

You left this little detail out:

Federal law and Amtrak policy require all customers and employees to wear a mask or covering that fully covers the entire mouth and nose, fits snugly against the side of the face, and secures under the chin at all times while onboard trains and in stations, regardless of vaccination status or state or local laws

 

And? I think it's been sufficiently drilled into everyone's heads that masking alone is insufficient to stop the spread. Are you saying that the cruise lines should be able to let anyone cruise as long as everyone wears a mask?

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

13 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Yes, that's the sucky part. Hopefully we will have a release of the masks regulation.

Prior to getting covid & later getting the vaccine, the most unsafe I’ve felt in the past 18 months was on a 6 hour Amtrak trip.  No middle seat open guarantee, lots of foot traffic and lots & lots of coughing.  Had I not ignored the BYOB restriction, I think I would have gone nuts.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Not currently.

 

Not currently...what? Crossing into Canada? Okay, but they are still criss-crossing the US, going to some states and locations with lower vaccination rates, without requiring vaccinations and testing. Yes, they are requiring masks, but that has already been announced to be ending on September 13. Assuming it does end then, why can cruises not do the same as long as they still comply with whatever their foreign ports will allow? 

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

Just now, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

And? I think it's been sufficiently drilled into everyone's heads that masking alone is insufficient to stop the spread. Are you saying that the cruise lines should be able to let anyone cruise as long as everyone wears a mask?

And? It’s not comparable if you have to wear a mask 100% on one and not wear it 100% of the time on the other.  Your original post made it look like taking Amtrak was a writhing mass of humanity.  The mask part all the time SHOULD be a deal breaker for most on a cruise....being required to get a shot (to those applicable) should not.

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Not currently...what? Crossing into Canada? Okay, but they are still criss-crossing the US, going to some states and locations with lower vaccination rates, without requiring vaccinations and testing. Yes, they are requiring masks, but that has already been announced to be ending on September 13. Assuming it does end then, why can cruises not do the same as long as they still comply with whatever their foreign ports will allow? 

The same is true of guns laws. So what? Cruise lines don't cruise the United States, they cruise internationally.

 

The majority of cruise line customers want vaccinated cruises, and most unvaxed people don't fall in a protected class, and the customer is always right (or at least never wrong), ergo...

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

And? It’s not comparable if you have to wear a mask 100% on one and not wear it 100% of the time on the other.  Your original post made it look like taking Amtrak was a writhing mass of humanity.  The mask part all the time SHOULD be a deal breaker for most on a cruise....being required to get a shot (to those applicable) should not.

 

I guess I'm not seeing your point. Let's say after September 13, when the mask mandate is supposed to end, that you can take an Amtrak Vacation train for 7 days with no mask, no vaccine, and no test. (And after spending 7 days on an Amtrak train with some people who never stepped foot in a shower during that tie and overflowing toilets in the Economy car, I can tell you "writhing mass of humanity" is a pretty good description - I'm just glad I had a sleeping car with my own bathroom). Would it be okay at that point to also take a cruise with no mask, vaccination or test requirement? Especially considering everyone has a private cabin, private showers, and lots of outdoor space to escape to?

[BlerkOne]

Amtrak is a quasi-corporation subsidized on multiple levels. It isn't close to a cruise line.

[SRQbeachgirl]

5 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The same is true of guns laws. So what? Cruise lines don't cruise the United States, they cruise internationally.

 

The majority of cruise line customers want vaccinated cruises, and most unvaxed people don't fall in a protected class, and the customer is always right (or at least never wrong), ergo...

 

This has nothing to do with gun laws. My gosh, what a leap. 

 

I get it, you want 100% vaccinated cruises and nothing will change your mind. I'm fully vaccinated, but I am sick and tired of the "othering" that has been going on and self-righteous "vaxxers" treating unvaccinated people like a plague on society. I haven't seen this level of vitriol aimed at people over a health issue since the AIDS crisis. It was appalling then and it is appalling now. All because some people don't want to have to endure the least little inconvenience on their precious vacations or have to even be around "those" people - or as you have referred to them, the "unmentionables." 

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

7 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

I guess I'm not seeing your point. Let's say after September 13, when the mask mandate is supposed to end

You didn’t mention the mask mandate on Amtrak, I did.  And where are you seeing that mandate for Amtrak ending 9/13

[skridge]

33 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Amtrak Vacation trains. A couple hundred people confined to a small space for 7 days, eating in the same dining cars, drinking in the lounge car, sleeping inches from each other in the Economy Class seats, getting on charter busses together to go on excursions...all without having to show proof of vaccinations or be tested. 

 

The biggest difference between a week-long Amtrak vacation and a cruise ship, besides the number of people, is that cruise ships have lots of outdoor spaces, private balconies, and large indoor spaces, where as on an Amtrak train you are sitting in a tiny enclosed space for hours and hours and hours with no outside venues.  

I have never heard of a week long trip on an Amtrak train where every person stays on the train for the whole time except for excursions and they have dance clubs and bars and a comedy club and a piano bar.  That must be a really long train to fit multiple thousands of people.  Does it have a water slide?

[SRQbeachgirl]

Just now, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

You didn’t mention the mask mandate on Amtrak, I did.  And where are you seeing that mandate for Amtrak ending 9/13

 

The current mandate is scheduled to end on September 13 and the federal government has already let state governments, airport authorities, etc know that they will not be renewing it (I work for one of the government agencies, which is how I know).  

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

I have never heard of a week long trip on an Amtrak train where every person stays on the train for the whole time except for excursions and they have dance clubs and bars and a comedy club and a piano bar.  That must be a really long train to fit multiple thousands of people.  Does it have a water slide?

 

National Parks Train Vacations | Amtrak Vacations®

[skridge]

38 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

What about the military? Are they required to wear masks? I know a large percentage are not vaccinated. What are their positive results? How have they handled it onboard their subs and across the fleet? merchant marine vessels? The cruise industry is not being treated the same. Those dollars were crucial for the local economies.

Comparing the military to the Cruise industry is the definition of an apples and oranges comparison.  Last time I checked the cruise industry is not necessary to keep us from being nuked by N. Korea.  

[jimbo5544]

Amtrak length of stay potentials listed here.  Up to 21 days.  

https://www.vacationsbyrail.com/destinations/united-states/coast-to-coast/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg7W-8vKm8QIVxfrICh1iDw5eEAAYASAAEgIBz_D_BwE

Edited June 20, 2021 by jimbo5544

[skridge]

5 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

National Parks Train Vacations | Amtrak Vacations®

I didn't see any of the things I mentioned in my post so I am assuming you posted this link to show me I was right.  

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

I didn't see any of the things I mentioned in my post so I am assuming you posted this link to show me I was right.  

 

There's no waterslide. They do have entertainment, which is usually held in the dining or lounge cars. They have a bar with live music, etc. No, it's not on the scale of a cruise ship, but the principal is the same. That was my point, but at this stage we are all just talking over each other and no one is going to budge. I will just wait to see what the cruise lines do, since they are the ones who have to make the decisions, not a bunch of us on a cruise forum standing in a circular firing squad.

[jimbo5544]

13 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

The current mandate is scheduled to end on September 13 and the federal government has already let state governments, airport authorities, etc know that they will not be renewing it (I work for one of the government agencies, which is how I know).  

Here is backup for this post.  
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/04/30/transportation-mask-mandate/?_gl=1*13crq3k*_ga*YTl3LTMzenRxV3FBdzFUYnRTVExBaW90TXRHaWVpbXVSdWxMLWpyRjRtQ1ZTLXRjRGJRblhNRUVjZjk5VXhBMA..

[broberts]

3 hours ago, caniuseit said:

 

 

If you are unvaccinated and denied exemption, you cannot sail

 

Tell me how this is not clearly against Florida law.

or, 

Is CCL saying “ I am not mandating that you show me proof of vaccine, but if you don’t, I won’t let you cruise”

 

you think that is legal under the new Florida law?

 

I'll try to keep this simple. To improve sales by providing a near maskless experience for the fully vaccinated the cruise line has designated some venues vaccinated and others not. Each venu already has a maximum capacity limit established for safety reasons. Based on these limits the cruise line has established capacity limits for vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers.

 

Every passenger must complete the online check-in before arriving at the port. As part of the process passengers have the opportunity to provide proof of vaccination information. If that is not provided, the passenger is considered unvaccinated. It they would exceed the capacity allowed for unvaccinated they would be denied boarding. Similarly if vaccination data was provided but the vaccination capacity is exceeded, they would be denied boarding.

 

Clearly there is no denial of service based on vaccination status.

 

1 hour ago, TNcruising02 said:

Cruise lines have never required proof of vaccination or proof of good health to cruise in the Caribbean.  There have always been contagious diseases.

 

Cruise lines have always required necessary travel documentation. Some countries do require proof of vaccination in certain situations. For example, if memory serves Costa Rica requires proof of yellow fever vaccination if the previous country visited has a yellow fever risk.

[AtSeaWithChris]

21 minutes ago, skridge said:

I have never heard of a week long trip on an Amtrak train where every person stays on the train for the whole time except for excursions and they have dance clubs and bars and a comedy club and a piano bar.  That must be a really long train to fit multiple thousands of people.  Does it have a water slide?

A friend of mine took a 10 day trip on Amtrak last September. 

[BlerkOne]

24 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

This has nothing to do with gun laws. My gosh, what a leap. 

 

 

It has nothing to do with Amtrak, either. Cruises do not provide transportation and are not subject to TSA. Pot meet kettle.

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

It has nothing to do with Amtrak, either. Cruises do not provide transportation and are not subject to TSA. Pot meet kettle.

 

They aren't subject to TSA, but a federal judge disagrees with you on the transportation issue.

Edited June 20, 2021 by SRQbeachgirl
clarity