Guest Advisory email concerning July 3 Vista sailing

[Earthworm Jim]

I fear it's still going to end up in court. The wording of the Florida law says businesses operating in Florida can't require the it, and Florida could argue Carnival is still operating in Florida and still requiring it, even if the confirmation is being done over the internet.

 

I just hope cruising can resume without this causing a problem, one way or another.

[aquasea]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

The unvaccinated that demand they be able to cruise are making it a lot harder on the cruiselines. As far as kids .....mine ALWAYS sail with the wife and I but this time they stay with Grandma this early on in the game. Some parents need to get more common sense. 

Exactly. Our 3 teens will be platinum in 2 more cruises, but we are leaving them with grandma this time also.

[lobster1313]

31 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

I fear it's still going to end up in court. The wording of the Florida law says businesses operating in Florida can't require the it, and Florida could argue Carnival is still operating in Florida and still requiring it, even if the confirmation is being done over the internet.

 

I just hope cruising can resume without this causing a problem, one way or another.

It doesn't matter anymore, Florida got it's publicity win. Cruises out of Florida will start with the current protocols. Ignore the rhetoric from politicians and the negativity from the press.

[TNcruising02]

Carnival states:

"As you know, we have committed to operating your cruise under the CDC requirements for what is being referred to as fully vaccinated cruises."

The Florida executive order allows business to follow CDC protocols and guidance.  That is what Carnival is stating it will do.  It appears that they are able to only allow up to 5% unvaccinated by following these guidelines, so they are not automatically rejecting people just because they aren't vaccinated.  It's funny that some people think a huge company like Carnival hasn't figured out how to do this and are just winging it.  People fear lawsuits, super spreaders, and all kinds of things when it sure looks like everything will be fine.  

I think they should have announced no kid's clubs sooner so that many people wouldn't have wasted their time with filing for an exemption.

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

I fear it's still going to end up in court. The wording of the Florida law says businesses operating in Florida can't require the it, and Florida could argue Carnival is still operating in Florida and still requiring it, even if the confirmation is being done over the internet.

 

I just hope cruising can resume without this causing a problem, one way or another.

Well, it's happening already.  Celebrity Edge departs today from FLL with a 95% vaccinated passenger requirement.  Not a peep from Florida to stop it based on proof of vaccine.  They have found a workaround and Carnival will just use the same approach.

Edited June 26, 2021 by harkinmr

[lazydayz]

The Celebrity work around right now is the Florida law doesn’t become effective until July 1.  And the law does NOT say you can’t ask. It says you can’t deny service based on vaccine status.  So as a business, they can and are asking.  And cruise lines are imposing safety measures for the unvaccinated. If you want fewer restrictions on the ship, get vaccinated.  

[lobster1313]

1 minute ago, lazydayz said:

The Celebrity work around right now is the Florida law doesn’t become effective until July 1.  And the law does NOT say you can’t ask. It says you can’t deny service based on vaccine status.  So as a business, they can and are asking.  And cruise lines are imposing safety measures for the unvaccinated. If you want fewer restrictions on the ship, get vaccinated.  

The executive order which is basically the same thing except more restrictive is in place until the law goes into effect.

 

[lazydayz]

14 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

The executive order which is basically the same thing except more restrictive is in place until the law goes into effect.

 

how much weight do Executive Orders have?  Pretty sure it doesn’t allow fines up to $5,000 per violation.  

[lobster1313]

10 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

how much weight do Executive Orders have?  Pretty sure it doesn’t allow fines up to $5,000 per violation.  

No fines but it can shut done any business by suspending any license or permits to do business in Florida.  Celebrity sailing today or RCL and CCL next week it's basically the same thing. 

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

The cruise industry is being treated differently because it is different. Can you tell whether you are on a plane or a cruise ship? Do you fly for the same reason you cruise?

 

But, I will agree that I don't see the rhyme or reason as to why airline passengers have this requirement while cruise passengers do not.

Thus the Florida lawsuit, and they won. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by MamallamaAndDaddy
Spelling

[ShaniBell]

15 hours ago, cowboy$fan said:

• For guests traveling with children, you should know that we do not plan to offer our supervised children’s programs on your cruise in order to minimize the risk for children under 12 who were granted an exemption because they could not be vaccinated..

 

 

 

This is from John's page on Facebook.  I posted with my booking number since we will be travelling with a 14 year old and he said he would have someone contact me Monday with options.  

[ontheweb]

55 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

No fines but it can shut done any business by suspending any license or permits to do business in Florida.  Celebrity sailing today or RCL and CCL next week it's basically the same thing. 

That would be the height of irony if Florida chose to shut down the cruise industry after they sued the CDC for the economic harm to Florida from the cruise industry not sailing.🤦‍♂️🤣

[ontheweb]

52 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Thus the Florida lawsuit, and they won. 

The lawsuit is not over yet. First, there are always appeals available to the losing party. And second I believe the judge suspended the ruling until I think the date of July 18th for the CDC to come up with a new CSO.

[Earthworm Jim]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Well, it's happening already.  Celebrity Edge departs today from FLL with a 95% vaccinated passenger requirement.  Not a peep from Florida to stop it based on proof of vaccine.  They have found a workaround and Carnival will just use the same approach.

 

They aren't requiring vaccination though. Carnival is.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Celebrity-Cruises-vax-policy-Florida

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

They aren't requiring vaccination though. Carnival is.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Celebrity-Cruises-vax-policy-Florida

Yeah right! Instead of requiring that you show proof of being vaccinated, you are told if you do not do so once onboard you will definitely be treated as if you are a leper.

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

They aren't requiring vaccination though. Carnival is.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Celebrity-Cruises-vax-policy-Florida

This article is inaccurate.  They are not "requiring" vaccinations, but are sailing at 95% vaccinated.  In order to do that they are asking passengers if they are vaccinated and willing to provide proof at boarding.  If yes, they go in the vaccinated pool of passengers.  If no, they go in the unvaccinated pool, which is capped at no more than 5% of total guests boarding.  Passengers provide proof of vaccination at the port to board as vaccinated.  If they do not provide the proof they are placed in the unvaccinated pool and can be denied boarding if that pool is full.  Carnival will use the same plan.  

[AtSeaWithChris]

38 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yeah right! Instead of requiring that you show proof of being vaccinated, you are told if you do not do so once onboard you will definitely be treated as if you are a leper.

Yeah, I don't care for that treatment. But the CDC is forcing that issue, at least until July 18th.

 

[harkinmr]

9 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Yeah, I don't care for that treatment. But the CDC is forcing that issue, at least until July 18th.

 

Even IF the CSO disappears on July 18, you will likely see the same choice and process applied by Carnival.  Royal Caribbean isn't requiring vaccines, but they are "treating" unvaccinated passengers the same way.  The cruise lines will do what is required to safely sail whether under the CSO or not.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, lazydayz said:

The Celebrity work around right now is the Florida law doesn’t become effective until July 1.  And the law does NOT say you can’t ask. It says you can’t deny service based on vaccine status.  So as a business, they can and are asking.  And cruise lines are imposing safety measures for the unvaccinated. If you want fewer restrictions on the ship, get vaccinated.  

And Carnival requires the vaccination info BEFORE Jul 1.

[lazydayz]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

And Carnival requires the vaccination info BEFORE Jul 1.

 

And again at boarding on July 10.  

[lobster1313]

31 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

And Carnival requires the vaccination info BEFORE Jul 1.

Exactly. I am Florida resident and I provided the vaccination information last night.

[sailingships]

2 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

Exactly. I am Florida resident and I provided the vaccination information last night.

So if Carnival sends these EMails asking for vax status to residents of other states after July 1,  have they broken the law? Or is Carnival hoping that the CDC will have different rules by the time the EMails for the August cruises would be sent out.?  

[Babr]

5 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

No fines but it can shut done any business by suspending any license or permits to do business in Florida.  Celebrity sailing today or RCL and CCL next week it's basically the same thing. 

The key phrase is “require proof in order to deny service.” People are not being denied service. Being allowed to sail is the service in question.

 

Once on the ship, passengers will find that protocols to maintain public health are in place. They may not like the service they are getting under those circumstances, but they are not being denied.

[BlerkOne]

30 minutes ago, Babr said:

The key phrase is “require proof in order to deny service.” People are not being denied service. Being allowed to sail is the service in question.

 

Once on the ship, passengers will find that protocols to maintain public health are in place. They may not like the service they are getting under those circumstances, but they are not being denied.

Cruise lines are not requiring proof. If you don't volunteer you are assumed to be unvaccinated and thrown into the 5% pool. If you don't apply for an exemption, too bad. When the exemption limit is reached, oh well. You are not being denied service because to didn't provide proof - you will be denied service because the ship is at capacity.

[Babr]

5 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Cruise lines are not requiring proof. If you don't volunteer you are assumed to be unvaccinated and thrown into the 5% pool. If you don't apply for an exemption, too bad. When the exemption limit is reached, oh well. You are not being denied service because to didn't provide proof - you will be denied service because the ship is at capacity.

Yes, I know. I thought I was responding to someone who was asserting the Florida law. He seemed to think fines or closures were forthcoming.

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Babr