This just in: Vaccine Mandate To Stay in Place "Indefinitely" (NCL)

[Another_Critic]

I'm curious whether NCL is seeing an increase or a decrease in bookings due to their 100% vaccinated requirement?

[binro01]

12 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 
If you read my posts, I didn’t say people should wear a mask instead of getting vaccinated. I said vaccinated people should still follow protocols like mask wearing and social distancing. NCL is implying their ships are 100% safe because everyone is vaccinated and that simply is not true. 

Not really. They are implying that there ships are orders of magnitude safer, because they are 100% vaccinated. No one believes or is it implied they are 100% safe. No activity is 100% safe.

Edited November 4, 2021 by binro01

[RedIguana]

5 minutes ago, binro01 said:

General population is not the cruising population. Just the vaccination rate of the cursing population is 2 standard deviations higher than the general population.

 

5 minutes ago, binro01 said:

That’s the population the lines are targeting. Not the general population

You are correct that the general population is not the cruising population. The cruising population skews elderly (well older), depending on length, line, and time of year obviously varies. The older you are the more likely you are vaccinated, so to really compare the vaccination rate of cruisers vs non-cruisers you have to compare it to the appropriate age brackets, not the general population. Those with children in the 5-11 age bracket most likely fall under 50 (I would guess most 30-40) so they will have lower vaccination rates also. If you are 30-40 and don't feel the need for vaccination, chances are you won't feel your kids need it either. I do suspect the 30-50 year old bracket cruisers are vaccinated at a higher rate than their non-cruising cohorts.

I also agree the lines are not targeting the general population. Right now they just want you vaccinated. I don't expect that requirement to go away for years. Losing the unvaccinated family side of the customer base is just going to be the new normal for a few years.

[alfaeric]

50 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Good luck with this business strategy with the family market

 

The demise of the cruise industry hasn't happened, yet.  Same things were said with adult vaccine requirements....

[UNCFanatik]

Just now, alfaeric said:

The demise of the cruise industry hasn't happened, yet.  Same things were said with adult vaccine requirements....

I dont recall saying or implying about demise of cruise industry. 

 

I just find it curious that cruise lines would make a decision that would limit their business

 

 

[xtremegk]

4 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

I dont recall saying or implying about demise of cruise industry. 

 

I just find it curious that cruise lines would make a decision that would limit their business

 

 

 

Bad press from COVID outbreaks would limit their business a lot more than a vaccine mandate.

[UNCFanatik]

2 minutes ago, xtremegk said:

 

Bad press from COVID outbreaks would limit their business a lot more than a vaccine mandate.

 

Vaccines dont stop the spread of Covid. There have already been outbreaks on cruise ships since the restart. Covid is on the way to being endemic. No way to stop Covid outbreaks on cruise ships even with 100% vaxed crew and passengers

 

People have cancelled their cruises because of protocols in place not because of Covid outbreaks we have seen. Many people were holding out hope that the CSO would truly expire on Oct 31st and not be extended. When CSO was extended and cruise lines announced November protocols, cancellations happened. RCCL extended their cruise with confidence program right about the same time. 

 

We will see the reception to the vaccines being approved for children and how it all plays out.

[lovescats5]

So I have been watching and reading what everyone has been saying.  But what about the people who have had covid.  Their immunity is greater than the shots give and yet there is no lee way for them.  Why not give them a card that says "had covid, don't need the shot".  First it was wear a mask, then get the shot and you don't need the mask, now it is get the shot and wear a mask.  I have to ask, "If the shot works why does the shot not work" and the same could be said about the mask.  What about the flu, get your flu shot now but you can still get the flu and you can still infect other people with the flu but I don''t see where you need a mask for the flu.  And, yes we are vaccinated and yes we will be on Anthem over Thanksgiving.  I just think and believe, whether you want the shot or not, you will not be able to do anything or go anywhere with the card.  We are all lemmings, following blindly what the government wants us to do.  Don't need all you vaxxers sending hate mail my way, this is my humble opinion and the last time I looked I have a right to my opinion.

[xtremegk]

Just now, lovescats5 said:

So I have been watching and reading what everyone has been saying.  But what about the people who have had covid.  Their immunity is greater than the shots give and yet there is no lee way for them.  Why not give them a card that says "had covid, don't need the shot".  First it was wear a mask, then get the shot and you don't need the mask, now it is get the shot and wear a mask.  I have to ask, "If the shot works why does the shot not work" and the same could be said about the mask.  What about the flu, get your flu shot now but you can still get the flu and you can still infect other people with the flu but I don''t see where you need a mask for the flu.  And, yes we are vaccinated and yes we will be on Anthem over Thanksgiving.  I just think and believe, whether you want the shot or not, you will not be able to do anything or go anywhere with the card.  We are all lemmings, following blindly what the government wants us to do.  Don't need all you vaxxers sending hate mail my way, this is my humble opinion and the last time I looked I have a right to my opinion.

 

Not sure where you're seeing that because most, if not all studies have pointed to vaccination creating antibody levels higher than in those who were infected (and even greater protection in those who were infected and then vaxxed), and show that vaccination provides greater protection against reinfection than natural immunity.

 

2 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

Vaccines dont stop the spread of Covid. There have already been outbreaks on cruise ships since the restart. Covid is on the way to being endemic. No way to stop Covid outbreaks on cruise ships even with 100% vaxed crew and passengers

 

People have cancelled their cruises because of protocols in place not because of Covid outbreaks we have seen. Many people were holding out hope that the CSO would truly expire on Oct 31st and not be extended. When CSO was extended and cruise lines announced November protocols, cancellations happened. RCCL extended their cruise with confidence program right about the same time. 

 

We will see the reception to the vaccines being approved for children and how it all plays out.

 

I should have said deadly COVID outbreaks.

[UNCFanatik]

38 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

 

You are correct that the general population is not the cruising population. The cruising population skews elderly (well older), depending on length, line, and time of year obviously varies. The older you are the more likely you are vaccinated, so to really compare the vaccination rate of cruisers vs non-cruisers you have to compare it to the appropriate age brackets, not the general population. Those with children in the 5-11 age bracket most likely fall under 50 (I would guess most 30-40) so they will have lower vaccination rates also. If you are 30-40 and don't feel the need for vaccination, chances are you won't feel your kids need it either. I do suspect the 30-50 year old bracket cruisers are vaccinated at a higher rate than their non-cruising cohorts.

I also agree the lines are not targeting the general population. Right now they just want you vaccinated. I don't expect that requirement to go away for years. Losing the unvaccinated family side of the customer base is just going to be the new normal for a few years.

Its odd that cruise lines arent targeting the general population when I see commercials in prime time on major networks for Royal Caribbean that show small children having fun

 

Interesting business strategy that you are advocating. Have the potential to lose family market for a few years....

[alfaeric]

57 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

I dont recall saying or implying about demise of cruise industry. 

 

I just find it curious that cruise lines would make a decision that would limit their business

 

 

You may have not posted it, but it was, many times.  Just before the thread was deleted for yet another vaccine post.

[pbokie]

  Hopefully they will also implement a policy that we can see everybody's medical record before boarding. It would be nice to know who had the flu shot, HIV, common cold, STD's.... so we could always make sure that we are safe when boarding the cruise ship or at least know who to stay away from.

  Maybe an App for your phone so that you could personalize it with the list of diseases that you are fearful of. If a person with this issue comes into your defined area an alarm would sound so that you could go back to your cabin or move to the other side of the ship. 

 

   

[alwaysflyin]

2 hours ago, binro01 said:

General population is not the cruising population. Just the vaccination rate of the cursing population is 2 standard deviations higher than the general population. I would like to see the numbers for parents who got their vaccination right away and what they will do with their children. I’m sure they will do the same with their children. Remember most of the cruise community did get their vaccination as soon as it was available to them. That’s the population the lines are targeting. Not the general population.

I serve on the PTO board of my daughter's school.  After a recent meeting the 12 members sat around and talked about vaccines.  Every board member plus spouse is vaccinated.  Only one board member is planning to get his 5-11 year old kid vaccinated right away.  Everyone else said that we do not have long term safety data and that we will wait and see.  2/3 of us and our kids have already had covid, with no serious impact, so that weighs in too. These are all people with expendable income who travel.  I think that the cruising population will have at least 50% choosing not to vaccinate kids in this age range right away.

[not-enough-cruising]

5 hours ago, Rangers1982 said:

Hi, some of you maybe following my other thread where I am currently confined in a quarantine hotel after my daughter was tested positive on the Harmony. In this hotel it is predominantly cruise ship passengers held here but we are the only ones with children (mainly 40-70 year olds). The vaccines don’t really work against transmission but work well against severe disease, but children don’t really get severe cases (more chances of death by lightning) so I really don’t understand the requirements for them to have a vaccine that will where off in a few months anyway. I think NCL are almost marketing that they’re covid free well tell that to the passengers that have been confined here from the Epic. People have responded to my posts on my quarantine saying this is why I will only sail NCL! As if covid isn’t a thing on NCL, the incubation period of 5 days of the delta variant before it shows on tests means that every single cruise ship will still unfortunately get some cases.

 

The other issue for RC is the majority of the rest of the world aren’t vaccinating children yet like the U.K. and that’s a big market for them. RC are a family cruise line so it’s a really difficult decision for them. 

Your comment about transmission is nonsense 

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, Another_Critic said:

I'm curious whether NCL is seeing an increase or a decrease in bookings due to their 100% vaccinated requirement?

They are sailing as full as they desire to be at this time. 

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, lovescats5 said:

So I have been watching and reading what everyone has been saying.  But what about the people who have had covid.  Their immunity is greater than the shots give and yet there is no lee way for them.  Why not give them a card that says "had covid, don't need the shot".  First it was wear a mask, then get the shot and you don't need the mask, now it is get the shot and wear a mask.  I have to ask, "If the shot works why does the shot not work" and the same could be said about the mask.  What about the flu, get your flu shot now but you can still get the flu and you can still infect other people with the flu but I don''t see where you need a mask for the flu.  And, yes we are vaccinated and yes we will be on Anthem over Thanksgiving.  I just think and believe, whether you want the shot or not, you will not be able to do anything or go anywhere with the card.  We are all lemmings, following blindly what the government wants us to do.  Don't need all you vaxxers sending hate mail my way, this is my humble opinion and the last time I looked I have a right to my opinion.

The CDC and the WHO do not agree with your post recovery immunity perception. 

[CPT Trips]

7 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

Time will definitely tell. I would just hope that going on a cruise is not the number one reason for a parent to get a 5-11 year old vaccinated. 

 

It is a strange business strategy though to limit your potential market. You may be right that the general cruising population has higher vax rates but the cruise lines want more than just current customer base. They run commercials on TV showing small children having fun to draw new people in not to appease their base. 

To paraphrase Rhett Butler - frankly, I don’t give a hoot about the motivation. Just vax!

 

[Maitaivegas]

5 hours ago, pbokie said:

  Hopefully they will also implement a policy that we can see everybody's medical record before boarding. It would be nice to know who had the flu shot, HIV, common cold, STD's.... so we could always make sure that we are safe when boarding the cruise ship or at least know who to stay away from.

  Maybe an App for your phone so that you could personalize it with the list of diseases that you are fearful of. If a person with this issue comes into your defined area an alarm would sound so that you could go back to your cabin or move to the other side of the ship. 

 

   

Ok you can’t compare getting Covid vaccine to HIV - last time I checked you can’t get HIV from someone sneezing.

 to compare someone being dox’d for having HIV versus being vaccinated is very insensitive.

I have been educating people on Covid 19 and the vaccine for far too long.

[Rangers1982]

5 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Your comment about transmission is nonsense 

Sorry to burst your bubble but vaccines don’t make you immune to catching covid and passing it on. 

[Itchy&Scratchy]

7 hours ago, lovescats5 said:

But what about the people who have had covid.  Their immunity is greater than the shots give and yet there is no lee way for them.  Why not give them a card that says "had covid, don't need the shot". 

my mom and dad had a light and moderate severity covid 17 months ago. How much of that immunity do you think they have retained by now? 

That's right. None of it. So, they got vaccinated in February-March and will be getting their boosters tomorrow, because the fact that they had covid doesn't mean they won't get covid again...

My unvaccinated co-worker had pre-delta covid in April 2021 and then delta covid in July 2021. Both were pretty bad. But, according to you, she was supposed to be super immune after having covid in April.

 

11 minutes ago, Rangers1982 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but vaccines don’t make you immune to catching covid and passing it on. 

neither does having covid previously.

[Rangers1982]

Agreed itchy but studies show offers greater protection. 
 

And just to prove my point (that was called nonsense) according to cruise news in the last 4 months there has been 1,305 confirmed onboard cases. This is what they say taken from CDC information. 
 

The COVID-19 vaccination rates on all of these unnamed ships were at or very near to 100% for crew and between 96.4% and 100% for passengers. Some of the cases apparently involved unvaccinated children, but the majority involve fully vaccinated adults.

[not-enough-cruising]

25 minutes ago, Rangers1982 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but vaccines don’t make you immune to catching covid and passing it on. 

My bubble is intact. I never said any such thing, but the quote “The vaccines don’t really work against transmission..” is nonsense, and the data to support the efficacy is well published, and indisputable in the scientific community. Is it 100%? No, no one ever said it was, but  the effectiveness against transmission is extremely high.

Edited November 4, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[binro01]

24 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

My bubble is intact. I never said any such thing, but the quote “The vaccines don’t really work against transmission..” is nonsense, and the data to support the efficacy is well published, and indisputable in the scientific community. Is it 100%? No, no one ever said it was, but  the effectiveness against transmission is extremely high.

I might need some enlightening here.

When virologists and immunologists say the word efficacy, I take it to mean the effective rate in preventing infection to me. So an efficacy rate of 90+ percent means I still have about a 10% chance of me personally catching COVID (ie testing positive).

 

I do not take it to mean the ability to work to prevent transmission. For example, with the delta variant, the viral load was much higher than the original strain. So even though the vaccine has a very high chance to allow my body to effectively fight the exposure I had, such that I do not get sick, there might have been a time when I was carrying enough viral load to potentially transmit the virus to someone else. So the vaccination did its job with high efficacy, but I still managed to transmit the virus to others during the time, I was fighting off the infection with my antibodies.

 

This is the reasoning @Rangers1982 and other talk about how the vaccine does not prevent transmission. But it most definitely shortens the period one can be a vector of transmission because of its efficacy.

In short. I believe we still need to mask up when around others at this time until the infection rates get much lower. Even on NCL, there should be some masking policies when in areas of dense population and poor ventilation.

Edited November 4, 2021 by binro01

[AustinCruise]

8 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

Vaccines dont stop the spread of Covid. There have already been outbreaks on cruise ships since the restart. Covid is on the way to being endemic. No way to stop Covid outbreaks on cruise ships even with 100% vaxed crew and passengers

 

People have cancelled their cruises because of protocols in place not because of Covid outbreaks we have seen. Many people were holding out hope that the CSO would truly expire on Oct 31st and not be extended. When CSO was extended and cruise lines announced November protocols, cancellations happened. RCCL extended their cruise with confidence program right about the same time. 

 

We will see the reception to the vaccines being approved for children and how it all plays out.

My family, including two kids in the 13-17 range, would not be booked on a Royal Caribbean cruise next month without the current protocols. 
 

Edited November 4, 2021 by AustinCruise
Added royal Caribbean for clarification.

[ATSEAMYLIFE]

12 hours ago, Rangers1982 said:

Hi, some of you maybe following my other thread where I am currently confined in a quarantine hotel after my daughter was tested positive on the Harmony. In this hotel it is predominantly cruise ship passengers held here

I haven't been able to find your "other" thread.  So where is this "quarantine" hotel where people are "confined?"  I'm not feeling your pain here.