28-MAR-2023 Sydney to Papeete - dates wrong after crossing the international dateline?

[nltc]

I just booked the March 28th 2023 Sydney to Papeete cruise and noticed that the dates seem to be wrong after crossing the international dateline. The itinerary shows us leaving Apia Samoa on April 6th, crossing the international dateline that same day, then arriving the next day in Pago Pago American Samoa on April 7th. Since we’ve crossed the dateline from West to East though it should be April 6th again. 

 

Does someone seem a flaw in this logic? I’ve went over it multiple times and it definitely seems incorrect. I called NCL but the person I spoke to didn’t seem to understand so that wasn’t helpful. The only other explanation is that there is an actual full sea day between the two Samoas which would make the schedule work out correctly but that seems unlikely since the islands are close together and NCL has this listed as a 15 day cruise and not 16 days.

[Turtles06]

I was intrigued by your question, since you do seem to be correct. 

 

A Google search confirms that Pago Pago is 25 hours behind Apia.  (Screenshot below from very interesting site called TravelMath.com.)  Thus, when it's 6pm on April 6th in Apia (the day you leave there), it's 5pm on April 5th in Pago Pago.  The distance between the two is 123km.  As you say, not very far, and your itinerary does not show a sea day in between.   So you leave Apia, cross the Dateline, and it's April 6th.  Unless you then spend an entire day at sea, which is not in your itinerary, it's hard to see how you don't arrive in American Samoa until April 7. 

 

What are we both missing?  

 

It does not surprise me at all that a first level phone rep was unable to understand the question.  You should consider asking for a supervisor, or asking for the question to be posed to the itinerary department.  Now you have me curious!

 

 

[Karaboudjan]

Am I missing something or does the end of the itinerary look odd?  April 11th is listed twice with two overnights.  Could the dates between April 6 and April 11 be one day off?

[Turtles06]

3 hours ago, Karaboudjan said:

Am I missing something or does the end of the itinerary look odd?  April 11th is listed twice with two overnights.  Could the dates between April 6 and April 11 be one day off?

 

It does look odd.  So I just checked the itinerary on NCL's web site, and according to the web site, on Tuesday, April 11, the Spirit will be in Moorea from 7am-5pm, and then arrive in Papeete for an overnight there, with folks disembarking in Papeete on Wednesday, April 12 at 8am.   

 

So the itinerary in the original post above seems to erroneously show an overnight on April 11 in Moorea. Indeed, that itinerary shows the ship leaving Moorea at 5pm.  Obviously, as you caught, there can be only one overnight on April 11. NCL's web site says it will be in Papeete.

 

That seems to explain the April 11 oddity in the OP, but still leaves us with the Pago Pago Dateline conundrum.

[Turtles06]

@chengkp75  Chief, I hope you don't mind my tagging you here.  The OP posted an International Dateline question re his NCL South Pacific itinerary, which seems to be "off" in terms of the date they arrive in Pago Pago from Samoa. The OP appears to be correct, for the reasons I explained in my comment no. 2 above, which would make the NCL itinerary date incorrect.  So what are we missing?  I feel as though there's something we should be recognizing, but haven't.

 

Appreciate your info and help as always!  

[bonvoyagie]

Turtles and the OP I don't think you have missed anything. Samoa shifted the IDL in 2011 so they could be on the same zone as Austraila where they do most of thier trading. American Samoa did not change and in fact is indeed 24hrs behind Samoa. The rest of the cruise also takes place on the east side of the IDL so it would make sense for NCL to shift times when crossing the line. Since this trip is over a year out, I would just wait and see as it gets closer to go time. I know my AK cruisetour booked for 2023 does not show the land portion of the trip - just the sea portion. Yes the land portion dates are shown with "at sea".

[CiaraMissed]

Because computers may get confused with a duplicate of dates, my guess is that the "International Date Line At Sea" is a placeholder and represents another sea day after your stop at Pago Pago. American Samoa is 24 hours "behind" Apia. The American Samoa port will likely take place on April 6, 2023 (again) and it's likely 3 days at sea before arriving at French Polynesia, approximately 1400 miles away:

• April 6, 2023: Apia, Samoa (UTC+13) 8 AM to 6 PM
• Cross International Date Line at ~10 PM April 6, 2023 UT+13 to 10 PM April 5, 2023 (American Samoa UTC-11)
• April 6, 2023 (part two): Arrive at Pago Pago (UTC-11), 8 AM to 6 PM
• April 7 & 8 & 9: Sea Days (1400 miles is approximately 70 hours at an average speed of 20 mph)
• April 10: Continue with ports in French Polynesia, per itinerary

[Turtles06]

2 hours ago, CiaraMissed said:

Because computers may get confused with a duplicate of dates, my guess is that the "International Date Line At Sea" is a placeholder and represents another sea day after your stop at Pago Pago. American Samoa is 24 hours "behind" Apia. The American Samoa port will likely take place on April 6, 2023 (again) and it's likely 3 days at sea before arriving at French Polynesia, approximately 1400 miles away:

• April 6, 2023: Apia, Samoa (UTC+13) 8 AM to 6 PM
• Cross International Date Line at ~10 PM April 6, 2023 UT+13 to 10 PM April 5, 2023 (American Samoa UTC-11)
• April 6, 2023 (part two): Arrive at Pago Pago (UTC-11), 8 AM to 6 PM
• April 7 & 8 & 9: Sea Days (1400 miles is approximately 70 hours at an average speed of 20 mph)
• April 10: Continue with ports in French Polynesia, per itinerary

 

I think you are on to something here.  As I think we've all concluded, there has to be another sea day somewhere.  I believe you've shown us where it could be, by pointing out the distance between Pago Pago and the next port, and a possible IT issue in having a doubled up April 6 for port calls to two different ports (although there seems to have been no problem in the itinerary stating that the ship was overnighting in both Moorea and Papeete on April 11).

 

It's a fascinating question, and I think this may well remain a mystery for a while!  

Edited January 11, 2022 by Turtles06

[nltc]

Another sea day seems to be reasonable, only problem with that is they have this as a 15 day cruise and not a 16 day. If that is the case then the price will be off if nothing other than additional gratuity and so forth. I had this cruise booked last year as well (being cancelled obviously) and when I looked back at that itinerary they had properly listed the two days as both being Wednesday so their system is obviously able to handle it.

 

I actually need to call their tech support tomorrow because in addition to this oddity with the date, the payment amount that I received in my confirmation email differs from what is on the website when I look at my payment options. Comparing the two, the confirmation is definitely the correct one. Maybe whatever is going on with the itinerary is also messing up the payments, or maybe it is because I've booked B2B which I've never done before. On my account the two cruises show up as one big 27 day cruise and one lump sum total. I'm going to press to see if I can get answers or at least have them contact someone else to explain the date discrepancy. 

 

I'll keep you posted!

[natefish95]

Neil! Didn't know you were on here. We met on the Jade back in 2019. Hope you're doing well!

 

Your ship might just enter a black hole when crossing the date line, so you really wouldn't have to worry about whether its 15 or 16 days haha

[nltc]

48 minutes ago, natefish95 said:

Neil! Didn't know you were on here. We met on the Jade back in 2019. Hope you're doing well!

 

Your ship might just enter a black hole when crossing the date line, so you really wouldn't have to worry about whether its 15 or 16 days haha

Nate, hey! Yes, I’m doing well. Just trying to make up for lost time now, I think I’ve been checking for this itinerary to show up every day since it was cancelled last February.

[BoundForSea]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:12 PM, Turtles06 said:

@chengkp75  Chief, I hope you don't mind my tagging you here.  The OP posted an International Dateline question re his NCL South Pacific itinerary, which seems to be "off" in terms of the date they arrive in Pago Pago from Samoa. The OP appears to be correct, for the reasons I explained in my comment no. 2 above, which would make the NCL itinerary date incorrect.  So what are we missing?  I feel as though there's something we should be recognizing, but haven't.

 

Appreciate your info and help as always!  

Cheng is now in 2022 charging a consultation fee by the word or offering a retainer for his services….

🤣

[don't-use-real-name]

If this is any help - World Time Zones:

 

World Time Zone and current time around the World and standard world time zones map of the world- 12 format

 

Click on a portion of the map to ZOOM in 

 

If you are confused just remember Phileas Fogg "Around the World in 80 Days"

crossing the international date line and losing a day and winning his bet much to his surprise - - -

 

An education in how that date line works -

Crossing it eastward you start the current day all over -

Going westward - oops you lost a day to the great void -

 

Caution check your cruise itinerary schedules carefully -

as posted above things may not be what you - your TA -

your airline and even your cruise company have them planned for

 

There are sailor rituals for crossing the date line and equator -

but I won't go into detail here ! LOL !

[Turtles06]

6 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

If this is any help - World Time Zones:

 

World Time Zone and current time around the World and standard world time zones map of the world- 12 format

 

Click on a portion of the map to ZOOM in 

 

If you are confused just remember Phileas Fogg "Around the World in 80 Days"

crossing the international date line and losing a day and winning his bet much to his surprise - - 

 

It was kind of you to post a tutorial on the IDL, but perhaps you did not carefully read the original post, the NCL itinerary in that post, nor the comments above.  It's clear that the OP and those who have replied (including yours truly) understand what happens when you cross the IDL, which is why NCL's itinerary makes no sense to us for the portion from Apia to Pago Pago.  Do you have an answer to the OP's question?

 

(And Fogg was going eastbound, so I suspect you meant to say that he gained, not lost, a day. 😉)

 

6 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

There are sailor rituals for crossing the date line and equator -

but I won't go into detail here ! LOL !

 

Been there, done that. 😁

[nltc]

Still no luck with this one! My last email to NCL back in January went into the abyss so I just sent them another one. I was hoping someone would have noticed the error and fixed it now that we are closing in on 4 months.