SoD- Covid Outbreak

[nosapphire]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

It’s based on an EU directive applying to all EU countries, but not all appear to be following it. I suppose it’s going to depend on the individual country’s view of the COVID situation at any given time.

Some of the reports on the P&O forum (look under the insurance thread) are very worrying, and apply to all cruise lines.

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2824053-update-on-po-insurance-issues

Nobody knows when or if the EU ports will insist on hotel quarantining instead of ship quarantine, and nobody yet knows whether in the event of a couple, where one tests positive and the other negative, whether both get offloaded, or whether the negative partner is quarantined aboard while the positive is offloaded. There is a report where somebody (negative) had to go to a different quarantine hotel to their positive partner.

And nobody is quite certain who will pay - especially for a non-positive partner.

Hopefully, as land-based tourism picks up again, the EU countries will decide that maybe they don't need to fill their hotels with covid quarantine (cynical? moi?) and things will get better.

The risk of on-board quarantine is not of concern, the risk of one ashore, one aboard, or both ashore but in separate hotels - even if neither are ill - is one I am not prepared to take.

 

 

[mcloaked]

50 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Some of the reports on the P&O forum (look under the insurance thread) are very worrying, and apply to all cruise lines.

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2824053-update-on-po-insurance-issues

Nobody knows when or if the EU ports will insist on hotel quarantining instead of ship quarantine, and nobody yet knows whether in the event of a couple, where one tests positive and the other negative, whether both get offloaded, or whether the negative partner is quarantined aboard while the positive is offloaded. There is a report where somebody (negative) had to go to a different quarantine hotel to their positive partner.

And nobody is quite certain who will pay - especially for a non-positive partner.

Hopefully, as land-based tourism picks up again, the EU countries will decide that maybe they don't need to fill their hotels with covid quarantine (cynical? moi?) and things will get better.

The risk of on-board quarantine is not of concern, the risk of one ashore, one aboard, or both ashore but in separate hotels - even if neither are ill - is one I am not prepared to take.

 

 

 

Having looked into this and also asked insurers what the position is, it seems that in general if you test positive, then if you are offloaded and quarantined then most decent insurance policies will cover your costs, including repatriation costs. However in general if you test negative but offloaded, either with your partner or separated, then the policies do not cover the negatively testing partner. But some insurers may engage in a discussion and 'may' offer some financial cover once you are in that situation but they are not required to in the policy small print.  So if you end up being offloaded when testing negative you are in unknown territory and may have a less than pleasant end to your holiday and may well end up out of pocket..  In addition, even if you are positive and definitely covered, it is important to know that cost reimbursement is not unlimited and usually subject to a cap - so you may well have to pay for some fraction of the total costs even if that situation is covered by your travel policy.  So it is essential to talk directly to your insurer to find out what you are and are not covered for as the wording and paragraphs on the policies are usually not explicit enough to provide certainty in this situation.

Edited February 14, 2022 by mcloaked
typo

[twotravellersLondon]

On 2/10/2022 at 6:03 PM, CeaJay said:

  We have been fed and watered.

 

 

We've been following your thread with the greatest of sympathy and are delighted that you're both able to get out and about again.We also hope that you were supplied with a choice of good food and the odd glass or two of wine. If we were in your situation, we would have wanted nothing less!

 

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Nobody knows when or if the EU ports will insist on hotel quarantining instead of ship quarantine

 

A lot of the confusion and issues in EU ports seems to come from individual governments and individual port officials interpretating EU guidance as they see appropriate.

 

They should follow.... one of the latest EU documents... the European Maritime Safety Agency's... "Guidance on the gradual and safe resumption of operations of cruise ships in the European Union in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic." It's available at... https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-CRUISE-GUIDANCE-revision-1-May-2021.pdf  It applies to any ship visiting an EU port. It should really be read in conjunction with "Interim Guidance For Preparedness And Response To Cases Of Covid-19 At Points of Entry In The European Union... " (Only recommended for those who have a lot of spare time on their hands and nothing else to do!) 

 

We think that the problem is that individual port officials may be swayed by all manner of concernes when they make their decisions... rather than what's best for the passengers themselves. 

 

We just don't want the hassle and are hoping to avoid some of these problems by cruising north to Iceland and Greenland on the Spirit of Discovery. We're looking into our own insurance to check out with them how they will deal with things in the eventuality of Covid.

 

We hope, if all goes awry, that at the very least we will be able to isolate in a pleasant cabin with its own balcony and that we will be able to do a bit of bird-watching, dolphin-spotting and whale watching as well as enjoying the scenery at times.

 

Personally and very sadly, we'll be giving places like Spain a miss for the time being. 

[wowzz]

9 hours ago, kruzgal said:

Saga cruises are not cheap and if I was forced into quarantine for a week, missing most of my holiday, because I was  identified as a ‘close contact’ by SAGA but didn’t subsequently develop Covid I would be livid and certainly expect compensation.  They do not specify what they count as a ‘close contact’. If it’s someone you share a cabin with fair enough but otherwise it’s completely crazy. I can’t believe people are putting up with this. 

But would you also be livid if you caught Covid from a close contact, who had not been quarantined ?

I think Saga and other cruise lines are caught between a rock and a hard place here. Whatever they do they will be criticised 

[paulatsea]

1 hour ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

We've been following your thread with the greatest of sympathy and are delighted that you're both able to get out and about again.We also hope that you were supplied with a choice of good food and the odd glass or two of wine. If we were in your situation, we would have wanted nothing less!

 

 

 

A lot of the confusion and issues in EU ports seems to come from individual governments and individual port officials interpretating EU guidance as they see appropriate.

 

They should follow.... one of the latest EU documents... the European Maritime Safety Agency's... "Guidance on the gradual and safe resumption of operations of cruise ships in the European Union in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic." It's available at... https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-CRUISE-GUIDANCE-revision-1-May-2021.pdf  It applies to any ship visiting an EU port. It should really be read in conjunction with "Interim Guidance For Preparedness And Response To Cases Of Covid-19 At Points of Entry In The European Union... " (Only recommended for those who have a lot of spare time on their hands and nothing else to do!) 

 

We think that the problem is that individual port officials may be swayed by all manner of concernes when they make their decisions... rather than what's best for the passengers themselves. 

 

We just don't want the hassle and are hoping to avoid some of these problems by cruising north to Iceland and Greenland on the Spirit of Discovery. We're looking into our own insurance to check out with them how they will deal with things in the eventuality of Covid.

 

We hope, if all goes awry, that at the very least we will be able to isolate in a pleasant cabin with its own balcony and that we will be able to do a bit of bird-watching, dolphin-spotting and whale watching as well as enjoying the scenery at times.

 

Personally and very sadly, we'll be giving places like Spain a miss for the time being. 

I agree - doing the same thing.

[CeaJay]

We had a positive meeting with the Guest Services Manager this morning.

 

He assured us that the on board credit of £150 per person and the spa treatments were just an acknowledgement of the disruption we experienced.  We itemized all our grievances with him and we were told that Saga would be in touch with us.

 

There will be testing tomorrow so it does look like we will be calling at the Azores.  We are exempt from this testing as we have only just come out of isolation.

 

I will update when I have any more info.

[Harry Peterson]

I'm afraid I can't personally vouch for the accuracy of this statement from P&O, but I've just lifted it from a P&O thread and believe it to be genuine.

 

If it is, it will be difficult for Saga not to follow suit, and indeed it may be the result of an industry wide agreement:

 

 

"We have updated our policy for customers who contract Covid while onboard.
 
Currently we had a policy which meant that if your customer had to be medically disembarked due to Covid they would need to make personal arrangements to get back to the UK and claim back the expenses from their insurance provider.
 
While this has worked effectively up until now we have listened to feedback, particularly around some of the reasons guests might be reluctant to travel and contracting Covid while away and the uncertainty that surrounded this was high on the list of customer concerns.
 
As a result we have updated our policy to the following:
 
If you’re required to disembark the ship, we’ll always work with the local authorities to secure the most appropriate accommodation for your period of isolation. In most instances, these will be pre-determined hotels which have been identified as ones able to accommodate positive cases of COVID-19. Our dedicated support team will help you to contact your travel insurance provider. However, if your insurance doesn’t cover your required disembarkation arrangements, we will organise and pay for your isolation stay and journey home.
 
If you're required to isolate/quarantine, or in some cases disembark the ship, due to testing positive for COVID-19 during your holiday, you'll be given a non-refundable Future Cruise Credit (FCC) pro-rated for the duration of days lost from your booked holiday with P&O Cruises. This FCC (which for UK guests is not ABTA or ATOL protected) can be used on any new booking and is valid for two years from the date of issue. 
 
We hope this change will give your customers increased reassurance, safe in the knowledge that any costs that isn’t covered via travel insurance will be covered via P&O Cruises meaning customers will not be left out of pocket and can focus on enjoying their holiday with us."

[paulatsea]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm afraid I can't personally vouch for the accuracy of this statement from P&O, but I've just lifted it from a P&O thread and believe it to be genuine.

 

If it is, it will be difficult for Saga not to follow suit, and indeed it may be the result of an industry wide agreement:

 

 

"We have updated our policy for customers who contract Covid while onboard.
 
Currently we had a policy which meant that if your customer had to be medically disembarked due to Covid they would need to make personal arrangements to get back to the UK and claim back the expenses from their insurance provider.
 
While this has worked effectively up until now we have listened to feedback, particularly around some of the reasons guests might be reluctant to travel and contracting Covid while away and the uncertainty that surrounded this was high on the list of customer concerns.
 
As a result we have updated our policy to the following:
 
If you’re required to disembark the ship, we’ll always work with the local authorities to secure the most appropriate accommodation for your period of isolation. In most instances, these will be pre-determined hotels which have been identified as ones able to accommodate positive cases of COVID-19. Our dedicated support team will help you to contact your travel insurance provider. However, if your insurance doesn’t cover your required disembarkation arrangements, we will organise and pay for your isolation stay and journey home.
 
If you're required to isolate/quarantine, or in some cases disembark the ship, due to testing positive for COVID-19 during your holiday, you'll be given a non-refundable Future Cruise Credit (FCC) pro-rated for the duration of days lost from your booked holiday with P&O Cruises. This FCC (which for UK guests is not ABTA or ATOL protected) can be used on any new booking and is valid for two years from the date of issue. 
 
We hope this change will give your customers increased reassurance, safe in the knowledge that any costs that isn’t covered via travel insurance will be covered via P&O Cruises meaning customers will not be left out of pocket and can focus on enjoying their holiday with us."

That’s interesting - I said on the other thread that I think cruises should just not go to any country where offloading is done .

[Harry Peterson]

Just as a follow-up to my earlier post, it is genuine, and found here:

 

https://www.pocruises.com/cruise-with-confidence/preparing-to-sail#your-experience-on-board

 

If you or a member of your travelling party tests positive for COVID-19 during your cruise, we’ll take care of you 

 

Similar to the protocols for all international travel, if you test positive for COVID-19 whilst on board, you and your close contacts will need to isolate for your well-being and the well-being of other guests. We’ll help you move to a dedicated cabin with a balcony and we’ll make sure you’re well looked after with full room service, a menu choice of three meals a day, free access to TV channels and laundry service. Our dedicated medical experts will also be on hand to take care of you as you cope with the symptoms of COVID-19. This will be for either the duration of the required isolation, until the next port of call, or until the scheduled port of disembarkation.

 

Any instances of positive tests on board will be managed by our on-board medical teams in conjunction with local port authority / Port Health requirements and protocols to determine the best course of action. The framework of protocols for cruise ships can differ slightly to those on land or to other forms of travel. Some ports, such as those in Spain, require guests and their close contacts who have tested positive to disembark their ship and continue their period of isolation ashore in that country.

 

If you’re required to disembark the ship, we’ll always work with the local authorities to secure the most appropriate accommodation for your period of isolation. In most instances, these will be pre-determined hotels which have been identified as ones able to accommodate positive cases of COVID-19. Our dedicated support team will help you to contact your travel insurance provider. However, if your insurance doesn’t cover your required disembarkation arrangements, we will organise and pay for your isolation stay and journey home*.

 

All UK resident guests who test positive for COVID-19 and are in isolation on their return to Southampton will be able to travel home to isolate after disembarkation. This can be in your own car (if you parked in Southampton) or via a private hire car which would be organised by us. We’d ask that you check with your insurance provider as they may reimburse for travel costs associated with a positive COVID-19 test. If your provider won’t cover the cost of the journey home, we’ll take care of it for you.

 

If you're required to isolate/quarantine, or in some cases disembark the ship, due to testing positive for COVID-19 during your holiday, you'll be given a non-refundable Future Cruise Credit (FCC) pro-rated for the duration of days lost from your booked holiday with P&O Cruises. This FCC (which for UK guests is not ABTA or ATOL protected) can be used on any new booking and is valid for two years from the date of issue.

 

Don’t forget, appropriate travel insurance remains a requirement to travel. Please click here to read more. You can also read our Q&A with Adam Edinburgh, Head of Insurance at Holiday Extras, which helpfully explains why cruise cover is different to standard cover and answers some frequently asked questions.

 

*Per our booking conditions it is mandatory to have travel insurance with COVID-19 cover. If you unfortunately test positive during your holiday, you should let your insurance company know immediately and keep them updated throughout your period of isolation. If you’re required to disembark the ship, we will look after you by providing all of the following free of charge: calls from the ship to your insurance provider to let them know of your disembarkation (and we will work with them to support any claims), hotel accommodation with standard meals, non-alcoholic drinks during the period of isolation, flights from the isolation destination to your country of residence, and associated airport transfers.

[mcloaked]

It is very good to see this change of published policy, and hope that a corresponding policy will be made explicit for Saga too.

[Windsurfboy]

What is a close contact ? Think we will stick to table of 2 to eat, and most probably give included coach tours a miss.

 

I wonder if forthcoming change of English rules that contacts do not have to isolate unless they test positive will impact ship policies.  Guidelines for cruises are very out of date.

[Vivaldi]

15 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just as a follow-up to my earlier post, it is genuine

It would make a huge difference if Saga came out with something as clear as this. We were booked to go on the S of D next month, but cancelled it before the final payment was due because of worries about Covid and uncertainties about what would happen if one tested positive. We are not even that confident about the cruise we booked quite a time ago on the S of A this October, but a statement like the P&O one would certainly help. It would also make us more likely to book something for next year when the cruises are released, as currently we are rather reluctant to do so.

[CeaJay]

If  SAGA offered us the nine days as a credit we would be happy to accept that.

 

The captain announced that no covid testing will take place as the Azores only require proof of vaccination for entry.

 

Haven't heard if we will be able to go ashore independently yet.

 

 

[kruzgal]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:24 PM, wowzz said:

But would you also be livid if you caught Covid from a close contact, who had not been quarantined ?

I think Saga and other cruise lines are caught between a rock and a hard place here. Whatever they do they will be criticised 

What are you defining as a close contact? If it was from someone sharing a cabin with someone who had tested positive  then of course I wouldn’t be happy. Otherwise I would be accepting just as I would accept catching a cold or the flu. If you go on a cruise during a pandemic then you are taking a risk, just as you are taking a risk going to the shops. Only you know how high that risk is for you and you should make a judgement on that. If Saga are forcing people into their cabins for 9 days on the basis that someone at the next dining table tested positive within 48 hours then the cost of the cruise should be refunded at the very least. 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, kruzgal said:

If Saga are forcing people into their cabins for 9 days on the basis that someone at the next dining table tested positive within 48 hours then the cost of the cruise should be refunded at the very least. 

 Cruising during a pandemic is taking a risk, and one of the risks is being quarantined if you are in close contact with a positive case. Sitting next to someone makes you a close contact. It is a risk you knowingly take.

If you are unhappy with the policy it would be better not to cruise at present. 

[twotravellersLondon]

3 hours ago, kruzgal said:

If Saga are forcing people into their cabins for 9 days on the basis that someone at the next dining table tested positive within 48 hours then the cost of the cruise should be refunded at the very least. 

 

We fully understand your comments about wanting to be compensated... but... you can insure yourself in case of the eventuality that you need to self-isolate. 

 

Like everybody else we know and accept the risks of cruising. We took the responsibility and cancelled two cruises which we deemed would be too risky for us personally. We've spent almost two years now getting cruise ready... we've lost weight, got fitter and have the attitude that we hope for the best, prepare for the worst and will be grateful for small mercies.

 

We now feel that the risk level of cruising is acceptable are booking again and have a long cruise in the next few months. But we've taken the responsibility of ensuring that we have on-board self-isolation cover.

 

It seems to us that the responsibility of SAGA, or any other cruise line, is to follow industry protocols and, if we're a potential risk to others we expect to be asked to self-isolate.

 

People like us "are putting up with this" because we trust some cruise lines and we're willing to take a degree of responsibility for looking out for our own interests. 

[Windsurfboy]

8 hours ago, kruzgal said:

 If Saga are forcing people into their cabins for 9 days on the basis that someone at the next dining table tested positive within 48 hours then the cost of the cruise should be refunded at the very least. 

 

If this is the case then the tables are too close. Saga should abandon any time dinning  , go for two sittings using all available restaurants and space the tables out more. The goverments 2 metres

 

If I was confined to cabin for 9 days because someone on next table which was to close had covid,  I would be livid , but also think that Saga had been deliberately negligent and demand more than a pro rata refund.

 

Only return to anytime dining , if you are not going to isolate people from next dining table. 

[wowzz]

25 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

If this is the case then the tables are too close. Saga should abandon any time dinning  , go for two sittings using all available restaurants and space the tables out more

Saga already have numerous restaurants, where you can dine at a time of your choice,  thus reducing crowding. 

By forcing half the passengers to eat at a specific time, you are actually making things worse, by cramming people in together. 

[Windsurfboy]

8 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Saga already have numerous restaurants, where you can dine at a time of your choice,  thus reducing crowding. 

By forcing half the passengers to eat at a specific time, you are actually making things worse, by cramming people in together. 

 

I would argue the opposite,  you are ensuring that no more than 50% of passengers are eating at anyone time, you are spreading them out. Enabling there to be less tables with greater distance between them

[wowzz]

19 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

I would argue the opposite,  you are ensuring that no more than 50% of passengers are eating at anyone time, you are spreading them out. Enabling there to be less tables with greater distance between them

Personally, I do not think you can easily accomodate 400,  even using all possible restaurants,and spread them out. 

And from a practical point of view, the galleys are not set up to simultaneously feed 400.

Edited February 16, 2022 by wowzz

[Wacktle]

In October we ate mainly in The Grill. Almost (or maybe every) time we arrived, one half was closed for cleaning. This forced people into closer proximity than we had experienced on SoD in 2019. Cleaning is admirable, but this virus is airborne.

 

I am still at a loss to know what Saga regards as a "contact". They take cabin numbers at the restaurant, but that has no regard to the length of time those at a neighbouring table may be sitting there, or how long someone may chat to others while waiting to be served food from the buffet. Maybe someone can get a definition from Saga, as it seems to be a lottery at present.

[kruzgal]

Agreed. Saga need to be transparent about what a close contact is. Are people who are being forced into isolation being compensated financially? 
 

Edited February 17, 2022 by kruzgal

[ann141]

Apparently Saga takes your cabin number when you go into the theatre, sit down for a drink etc and they know who has been on a particular excursion or has been to a particular talk or Art Class etc.I think they consider all these as possible close contacts.In my opinion there are too many passengers on Saga ships at the moment compared with other cruise lines so it is more likely that people will come into closer contact with others.We transferred a cruise on S of A that we should have been on a few weeks ago to a cruise in October because I was worried about being offloaded.That cruise was to The Canary Islands and Spains regulations stipulate that this it what is necessary if people have covid onboard.I think that as S of A sets off for the Caribbean soon that Saga should turn the ship back if covid figures are too high because some Caribbean Islands will not let passengers disembark if there are more than 1% or5%  of passengers with covid onboard.That is what Fred Olsen did and whilst disappointing for the passengers, personally I would prefer that than carrying on regardless with the likelihood of having to miss several ports and a higher risk of catching covid.At least P and O and Cunard have Queen Victoria in the Caribbean to transfer covid passengers to

[Denarius]

16 hours ago, kruzgal said:

Agreed. Saga need to be transparent about what a close contact is. Are people who are being forced into isolation being compensated financially? 
 

I thought that the definition of being a close contact was being within 2 mtrs of an infected person for at least 15 minutes. So that being stood next to someone for a short period in a queue or in a lift would not be a close contact, but sharing a restaurant table at dinner would.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Denarius

[CeaJay]

I heard someone discussing their time in cabin confinement during this cruise today.  Apparently we should have been allowed one hour per day for outside exercise.  This particular guest insisted on this and the management allowed him to go out on the veranda on deck D to exercise.  

 

We also went to listen to some music on Wednesday and guests were still moving the furniture around and sitting next to each other not maintaining distancing.  Very disappointed in this as we brought it up at our meeting with guest Services.

 

Also wanted to let everyone know that we took the included SAGA insurance.  Never having cruised before we thought it would be more comprehensive and include scenarios that we had not considered. If it had been clear that cabin confinement was not included we would have purchased an add on.