Sensation to breaking yard.

[Ohio Bucki]

I see on the cruise mapper website that the Carnival Sensation is on its way to Turkey. ☹️

[Kanyon71]

That's a bummer 😞

[xDisconnections]

Great news! Another Fantasy class ship meets Aliaga.

[mz-s]

It's a shame that so many ships of the Fantasy class never got a true goodbye, especially the flagship of the class.

[BlerkOne]

Perhaps Carnival will start merging cruise lines - Princess and Carnival perhaps?

[Aplmac]

Looking forward to when we might have

a modern-looking fleet of ships

with the very oldest of them.. Destiny/Sunshine!

[Oceansaway17]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Perhaps Carnival will start merging cruise lines - Princess and Carnival perhaps?

not sure I understand what your comment above means???

[Kevin308]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Perhaps Carnival will start merging cruise lines - Princess and Carnival perhaps?

Why would you think that?

[Itried4498]

4 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Great news! Another Fantasy class ship meets Aliaga.

 

Great news!  Fewer low-fare cruises for us to choose from, while you could've avoided booking on them!  Less choices is always better!!!!

[Itried4498]

8 minutes ago, Kevin308 said:

Why would you think that?

 

Carnival owns numerous brands including the Carnival, Princess and Holland America brands domestically.  All three brands are treated as completely separate companies.  While it wouldn't make sense to merge the Carnival & Princess brands (two distinct consumers), it would make sense to merge a lot of inner-workings "under the hood."  For example, Carnival could expand its Long Beach terminal (in theory; good luck in practice) to accommodate an additional ship, thus handling all three brands within one facility, utilizing the same employees and same supplies.  Carnival could consolidate Princess' massive Santa Clarita HQ into its Miami HQ.  Call center employees could take calls from multiple brands, etc.  If the industry doesn't rebound, investors will pressure Carnival for synergies like these, or even more large-scale ones like Holland America being consolidated into Princess (similar consumers).

[Saint Greg]

9 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

For example, Carnival could expand its Long Beach terminal (in theory; good luck in practice) to accommodate an additional ship, thus handling all three brands within one facility, utilizing the same employees and same supplies.

That port is small. They’d have to build a new one. If the Queen Mary gets scrapped and that property is up for grabs I could see it. 

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

Carnival owns numerous brands including the Carnival, Princess and Holland America brands domestically.  All three brands are treated as completely separate companies.  While it wouldn't make sense to merge the Carnival & Princess brands (two distinct consumers), it would make sense to merge a lot of inner-workings "under the hood."  For example, Carnival could expand its Long Beach terminal (in theory; good luck in practice) to accommodate an additional ship, thus handling all three brands within one facility, utilizing the same employees and same supplies.  Carnival could consolidate Princess' massive Santa Clarita HQ into its Miami HQ.  Call center employees could take calls from multiple brands, etc.  If the industry doesn't rebound, investors will pressure Carnival for synergies like these, or even more large-scale ones like Holland America being consolidated into Princess (similar consumers).

Actually today's Princess cruisers have little in common with the old guard Princess cruisers. Princess has made a number of cutbacks - e.g. no more lunch every day in the MDR. Jeans of all things in the MDR. With Carnival's newest ship now enabling multiple classes and more optional eateries including pay venues, don't be surprised. Princess charges for cappuccino and so does Carnival. Coincidence? I think not.

[Jamman54]

6 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

That port is small. They’d have to build a new one. If the Queen Mary gets scrapped and that property is up for grabs I could see it. 

The Queen Mary isn't going anywhere. They just started 5 million dollars of repairs to save her. She will be closed to the public until the repairs are completed.

[Itried4498]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Actually today's Princess cruisers have little in common with the old guard Princess cruisers. Princess has made a number of cutbacks - e.g. no more lunch every day in the MDR. Jeans of all things in the MDR. With Carnival's newest ship now enabling multiple classes and more optional eateries including pay venues, don't be surprised. Princess charges for cappuccino and so does Carnival. Coincidence? I think not.

 

You're correct that Carnival and Princess have synergized many of their policies, but they still book two distinct passenger groups.  This is clear on Cruise Critic, where many Princess cruisers refuse to consider Carnival, and are generally unhappy when they do.  This is clear in their pricing -- identical itineraries cost significantly more on Princess, even when its utilizing older ships.  This is also clear in onboard amenities.

 

The thing that people often forget, is that the people who are 50 and 60 today, aren't the same people who were 50 and 60 twenty years ago.  I started my professional career (finance/accounting) in the mid-2000s, and shortly thereafter, most companies in the field started dropping their tie mandate - and the partners who were in their 70s and 80s almost had a heart attack.  Jackets soon followed ties, progressing toward today, where business fashionable is the dominate trend in Southern California.  Just think about how those guys who were mortified about the lack of a tie... would feel about business fashionable.

 

My point is that in today's world, the relaxed dress code on Princess upsets only a handful of purists -- most people in their 40s, 50s and 60s, could careless.  Purists generally impede on progress; they're the reasons that checks and printed newspapers -- obsoleted mediums -- are still so common in the USA compared to most other developed countries.

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, Jamman54 said:

The Queen Mary isn't going anywhere. They just started 5 million dollars of repairs to save her. She will be closed to the public until the repairs are completed.

Which is 1.7% of the $289 million estimated just to keep her afloat.  Do taxpayers have that commitment?  She earned $3.3 million/year, so that is an 87 year return on investment.  Think she'll be there that long?

[xDisconnections]

55 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

Great news!  Fewer low-fare cruises for us to choose from, while you could've avoided booking on them!  Less choices is always better!!!!

I do avoid booking on them and I’m excited about the news. With Carnival reimagining their brand and improving their product, they no longer need those rust buckets in the fleet. With the lower occupancy, now is the best time for them to take advantage of this.
 

Carnival needs to remain competitive. Their competitors are providing a much better experience at a very reasonable price.

[Itried4498]

10 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

I do avoid booking on them and I’m excited about the news. With Carnival reimagining their brand and improving their product, they no longer need those rust buckets in the fleet. With the lower occupancy, now is the best time for them to take advantage of this.
 

Carnival needs to remain competitive. Their competitors are providing a much better experience at a very reasonable price.

 

That would make sense only if Carnival is replacing those ships, which it is not.  Once global restrictions are lifted and Carnival is able to rebuild its network, the loss of eight ships will lead to a loss of itineraries -- including the potential loss of a secondary port like Charleston,  Mobile, etc.  What's scheduled for 2024 today... doesn't mean a whole lot.  Voyages to the Mediterranean, Alaska, Australia, China, South America, Hawaii, etc. will rake in far more profit than a 4-day cruise from Mobile to Cozumel, or a weekend cruise from Los Angeles to Ensenada.  Guess which routes will get cut? 

 

Less choice is never a good thing, and the weakest itineraries will likely be cut rather than see upgrades over the long-term.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Itried4498

[canes20]

Fantasy class has always been out favorite.

[brilliantseas]

4 hours ago, Aplmac said:

Looking forward to when we might have

a modern-looking fleet of ships

with the very oldest of them.. Destiny/Sunshine!

 

Destiny/Sunshine should be headed to Aliaga! I enjoyed the Fantasy class. Even after "Sunshining," I still don't care for the Destiny/Sunshine and Conquest classes. I'd rather hold onto the Fantasy class than those overcrowded ships. 

[brilliantseas]

2 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

That would make sense only if Carnival is replacing those ships, which it is not.  Once global restrictions are lifted and Carnival is able to rebuild its network, the loss of eight ships will lead to a loss of itineraries -- including the potential loss of a secondary port like Charleston,  Mobile, etc.  What's scheduled for 2024 today... doesn't mean a whole lot.  Voyages to the Mediterranean, Alaska, Australia, China, South America, Hawaii, etc. will rake in far more profit than a 4-day cruise from Mobile to Cozumel, or a weekend cruise from Los Angeles to Ensenada.  Guess which routes will get cut? 

 

Less choice is never a good thing, and the weakest itineraries will likely be cut rather than see upgrades over the long-term.

 

I don't see Charleston going anywhere. It performs well enough to keep a 3,100 pax ship filled to capacity for nearly every sailing. It also benefits from not having any height restrictions. IMO, Mobile is at risk due to the proximity of NOLA (although I prefer Mobile!), with Jacksonville, Tampa, and Baltimore at risk of losing ships as the Fantasy and eventually Spirit classes are retired. I'd even rank them in that order in terms of risk of losing a ship.

 

That leaves two questions. 

 

1. Does Carnival "Sunshine" a few of the older HAL ships (HAL Vista class?) that meet the height requirements to access these ports, or potentially even introduce a new Spirit 2.0 class that can replace both the CCL Spirit class and the HAL Vista class at the same time? Together, they represent eight ships that are already in their 20s.

 

2. Does Carnival give up on the height restricted ports and relocate that business elsewhere? Norfolk serves the southern half of the current Baltimore catchment area, with NYC able to serve the northern half. Charleston and Port Canaveral do the same for Jacksonville. There really isn't a good replacement for Tampa, except for the fact that the east coast of Florida already has three major cruise ports to choose from. 

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

You're correct that Carnival and Princess have synergized many of their policies, but they still book two distinct passenger groups.  This is clear on Cruise Critic, where many Princess cruisers refuse to consider Carnival, and are generally unhappy when they do.  This is clear in their pricing -- identical itineraries cost significantly more on Princess, even when its utilizing older ships.  This is also clear in onboard amenities.

Perhaps "clear" in the minds of the new Princess cruisers. Not so much when looking from the outside in. Princess is bundling drink packages and more into discount pricing. And more and more short cruises. Short cruises that allow young cruisers to quickly achieve the highest loyalty level with fewer days at sea than Carnival requires for the Diamond level. Never say never.

[ronrythm]

4 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

The Queen Mary isn't going anywhere. They just started 5 million dollars of repairs to save her. She will be closed to the public until the repairs are completed.

Your right, it’s not going anywhere. It’s going to sink where it is. The engineer hired by the city of Long Beach to provide an outside look at the state of the QM found so many things wrong, the city did the only thing they could. They fired the engineer.

enjoy

Ron

[Itried4498]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Perhaps "clear" in the minds of the new Princess cruisers. Not so much when looking from the outside in. Princess is bundling drink packages and more into discount pricing. And more and more short cruises. Short cruises that allow young cruisers to quickly achieve the highest loyalty level with fewer days at sea than Carnival requires for the Diamond level. Never say never.

 

Your splitting hairs here.  Your and my opinions are irrelevant.  I think the Disney Cruise Line is a colossal waste of money, yet Disney has no problem attracting hoards of passengers spending $10K for a one-week family cruise to the Caribbean, while simultaneously wondering how they're going to come up with the money to pay for their kids' braces or their worn-out furnace.  

 

Maybe one day the masses will agree with you, and Carnival could consolidate both brands, but status quo Princess attracts a much different demographic.

 

 

[Itried4498]

1 hour ago, brilliantseas said:

 

I don't see Charleston going anywhere. It performs well enough to keep a 3,100 pax ship filled to capacity for nearly every sailing. It also benefits from not having any height restrictions. IMO, Mobile is at risk due to the proximity of NOLA (although I prefer Mobile!), with Jacksonville, Tampa, and Baltimore at risk of losing ships as the Fantasy and eventually Spirit classes are retired. I'd even rank them in that order in terms of risk of losing a ship.

 

That leaves two questions. 

 

1. Does Carnival "Sunshine" a few of the older HAL ships (HAL Vista class?) that meet the height requirements to access these ports, or potentially even introduce a new Spirit 2.0 class that can replace both the CCL Spirit class and the HAL Vista class at the same time? Together, they represent eight ships that are already in their 20s.

 

2. Does Carnival give up on the height restricted ports and relocate that business elsewhere? Norfolk serves the southern half of the current Baltimore catchment area, with NYC able to serve the northern half. Charleston and Port Canaveral do the same for Jacksonville. There really isn't a good replacement for Tampa, except for the fact that the east coast of Florida already has three major cruise ports to choose from. 

 

The problem is that Carnival prematurely retired 8 ships under its brand, and nearly two dozen ships corporate wide.  It isn't like an airline, which can purchase used equipment to partially replace the planes it retired.  As you know, it takes several years to design, build and deliver a new ship.  And in the interim, especially in a hot travel market, opportunity cost will prevail.

 

Prior to the pandemic, Carnival discussed that it was seeing high demand for extended itineraries, especially on non-traditional itineraries.  It hoped that the new megaships would make it more competitive on a per-passenger basis on traditional routes, and free up the now-medium sized ships.

 

During its recent earnings call, Carnival projected record demand in 2023.  Even if it replicated its 2019 network, it'd be down at least 5 ships, meaning plenty of plenty of itineraries would have to be cut.  And if the industry rebounds, the revenue opportunities on increased extended voyages to Hawaii, Alaska, through the Panama Canal, etc. will triumph those earned traveling from Mobile, Charleston, Jacksonville, etc. to Mexico.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

The problem is that Carnival prematurely retired 8 ships under its brand, and nearly two dozen ships corporate wide.  It isn't like an airline, which can purchase used equipment to partially replace the planes it retired.  As you know, it takes several years to design, build and deliver a new ship.  And in the interim, especially in a hot travel market, opportunity cost will prevail.

 

Prior to the pandemic, Carnival discussed that it was seeing high demand for extended itineraries, especially on non-traditional itineraries.  It hoped that the new megaships would make it more competitive on a per-passenger basis on traditional routes, and free up the now-medium sized ships.

 

During its recent earnings call, Carnival projected record demand in 2023.  Even if it replicated its 2019 network, it'd be down at least 5 ships, meaning plenty of plenty of itineraries would have to be cut.  And if the industry rebounds, the revenue opportunities on increased extended voyages to Hawaii, Alaska, through the Panama Canal, etc. will triumph those earned traveling from Mobile, Charleston, Jacksonville, etc. to Mexico.

After the merger, Princess could carry the load for the longer, more exotic cruises and the old Carnival could continue with short cheap cruises. The Mardi Gras class is the bridge between the two.