Don't be afraid to try things on your own!

[RJG1011]

Hank and company,

This post has been wonderful but like others my head is spinning (this is our first trip to Europe).

This may well be our one and only visit to the Mediterranean (our finances have changed drastically since we initially booked). We are booked on a 13 night cruise in late October (Civitavecchia-Piraeus-Rhodes-Kusadasi-Alexandria-Ashdod-Haifa-Naples- Civitavecchia). Any and all advice appreciated (like links to other posts/sites) for this once in a lifetime trip.

Specific questions:

1) We are in Rome 3 days before and 1 day after cruise. Of course, we plan to spend most of the time in Rome but would it be possible to get to Florence/Pisa during that time? Best way to do this? Or if you were in Italy only once, would you do something else?

2) We will be in Athens on Sunday and Rhodes on Monday - any problems with closings?

3) We will be in Haifa on Sunday, November 1st , which I read is a public holiday there - is that going to be an issue?

 

FINALLY - what are the top things you would spend the extra money/time doing; what things are really not worth it? (I know this is probably too broad but just a couple of items would be appreciated)

Thank you, Aimee

It's easy to get from Rome to Florence by Train - you don't need 1st claSS, but be sure to get a non-smoking car (that is, if you don't smoke) and an express train (Eurostar). My son and I were running late and didn't realize that smoking was allowed in some cars. This may have changed - we went several years ago. You can check train schedules online - but leave early to get in the most sightseeing.

 

The train station in Florence is pretty central and Florence is an easy city to walk. Reserve your Ufizzi and Academia (David) tix ahead of time to save lines. They are for a specific entry time. The Duomo isn't far from the station and the Pitti Palace is on ;the other side of the river, over the Ponte Vecchio(fabulous site itself). Also, you would want to go to the church (I believe it's Santa Croce) where Michaelangelo and other Renaissance notables are buried.

 

In the Piazza near the Duomo, there is a huge market with all kinds of leather goods. There is also a leather-making school somewhere near another Piazza. Of course, there are great stores all over the area. Enjoy!

[Hlitner]

It's easy to get from Rome to Florence by Train - you don't need 1st claSS' date=' but be sure to get a non-smoking car (that is, if you don't smoke) and an express train (Eurostar). My son and I were running late and didn't realize that smoking was allowed in some cars. This may have changed - we went several years ago. You can check train schedules online - but leave early to get in the most sightseeing.

 

Enjoy![/quote']

 

You will be happy to know that smoking has been banned on Italian trains (and just about every European train) for several years. In fact, Italy implemented a pretty tough anit-smoking year a few years ago and reports that admissions for heart attacks have dropped significantly since the ban. In most of Europe you can no longer smoke inside restaurants and even Ireland has banned smoking in pubs.

 

Hank

[RJG1011]

I thought my husband was up for going into Rome again, but he said "been there, done that." I was looking around the boards and saw some ideas - do you know anything about getting from Citavecchia to Ostia Antica? What about beaches near Citavecchia? Thanks!

 

Also, if we spend a few hours in Florence without going into the Ufizzi and/or the Accademia, do you think we would have time to make a quick stop in Pisa on the way back to Livorno? It seems that all the trains stop in Pisa enroute to and from Livorno.

[travelite]

I enjoy monitoring this board and reading everyone's advice. A few years ago I used to contribute lots of help here for those who wanted advice on how to do any of the European ports on their own (we have been to most of these places multiple times). I stopped most of my help because I got tired of being flamed by others who insisted that the only way to do anything is on an organized tour (this is true for some folks). However, given the very high price of tours (the low value dollar does not help) I am surprised to see almost everyone resigned to tours. Western Europe is pretty easy to navigate on your own although it helps to do some homework. The advantage of being on your own is you avoid the "cattle like" mentality of some tours, get to do what you want when you want with who you want, and usually you will save money. In fact, on a 12 day Med cruise you can easily save over $1000 (or more) by doing things independent of tours. The down side of independent travel is that you do need to do your pre-trip homework,, but to some of us that is part of the fun. My main problem with most tours is that they try to crowd too much "touring" into a short period of time without giving you a chance to see the real Europe. A lot of the joy of visiting some cities (Rome, Paris, etc) is spending time at an outdoor cafe enjoying local cuisine, wine and people watching (this is how many Europeans enjoy themselves). Personally, when in Rome I would quickly give-up seeing some site in order to have time for lunch or a snack at one of the cafes in the Piazza Navona. But, I guess this is where the "different strokes for different folks" saying reigns surpreme.

 

Hank

 

Hank, I'm with you on independent travel. I've read some of your other postings. They were great, informative, and helpful. I'd personally like to thank you for taking the time to post them. I did benefit from some of your information.

I am basically a very independent sole. I am comfortable on my own, but always remember to be street wise, cautious, and put safety first. I truly enjoy exploring and uncovering the unexpected. Meeting and mixing with people along the way always adds to the experience. I like trying new things and experiencing other cultures. I always leave "home" at home, and arrive at my destinations with an open mind and heart. I try to blend in with my new surroundings, absorb, and try to be flexible and understanding with "what is."

I enjoy research and learning along the way. I always do my homework before I leave home. Not everyone has the interest or is willing to invest the time to prepare this throughly. Large group tours are always my last choice, but at times I have been pleased they were available. Choice is always good to have.

Cruise Critic has helped me to find other like minded travelers. We plan our own shore experiences, many are spontaneous. I extend invitations for others to join us, but never feel rejected when another course is chosen. In some ports, small groups (approx. 4 to 8) form to share taxis and private tour guides. This has proven to be very rewarding in many ways. A private tour/taxi share is a great way to save money and limited time in port. These fellow travelers add to the experience by sharing their impressions and experiences.

There will always be tourists -- and there will always be travelers, those that truly engross themselves in the experience. I encourage you to continue to share your knowledge and experiences. There are some real travelers out there that will appreciate your sharing, your knowledge, and information. I am one of them.

[housusan]

Is it possible to go on your own from Genoa to Portofino- ferry? train?

What is the cost?

[housusan]

Is there a bus to do this on your own?

[Aussie Gal]

You can go by train from Genoa to Santa Margherita and from there you can either catch a ferry, go by the local bus or walk. The walk is lovely but you do need time to do it.

 

Jennie

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Hlitner and travelite, I agree with both of you on this. We love relaxing and people watching at a nice outdoor cafe in beautiful surroundings. If we miss important sights, well, there will be a next time--we spent a day in Athens and didn't even get to the Acropolis! (but had a great time in the Psiri district that night!)

 

That being said, I think there are times when organized tours are appropriate. We have been fortunate enough to take a number of Regent cruises where the organized excursions are moderately sized and well organized--not cattle-like generally. Right now, these excursions are mostly free, so why not? Especially in places of a more challenging nature. Of course, "challenging" is in the minds of the beholder.

 

Another time when it would be appropriate for me would be if I was travelling alone. Being in a group would give me someone to talk to, make contact with. I have travelled alone, and not being naturally gregarious, find it tough to do that on my own.

[Hlitner]

We are big fans of Regent and know that they run wonderful tours. I know that tours on the other "luxury" lines such as Seabourn, Silverseas and Sea Dream are also terrific and generally have smaller groups. But, keep in mind that most on CC are traveling on the so-called mass-market lines where things are quite different. The mass-market lines must make much of their profit by "maximizing on-board revenue" which includes selling overpriced, oft crowded, tours at very large mark-ups. Unfortunately, where these lines used to have excellent port lectures that told folks how to do ports on their own, the port lectures now emphasize tours and, in some cases, do everything possible to discourage passengers from "doing your own thing." Some tours have even taken on some ugly characterististics since the tour companies (and cruise lines) can increase profits by getting kick-backs from shops and restaurants visited on tours. There now exist some "jewelry factories," "carpet factoris," "cameo factories," etc. that generate almost all their business from these tours. We have watched too many tours bypass very interesting places and sites so they have more time to take their clients "shopping" at carefully chosen shops (some even owned by the tour companies). This is part of what turned us-off to most excursions and provided incentive to do things on our own. Now, after more than 40 years of extensive travel experience, it is fun to share and try to help those with the "spirit of adventure" who also enjoy doing what they want, when they want, with who they want. That being said, there are always a percentage of travelers who only feel comfortable on an organized excursion and, fortunately for them, there is no shortage of excursions (both cruise line and private) available on cruises.

 

Hank

[Off2China]

We are big fans of Regent and know that they run wonderful tours. I know that tours on the other "luxury" lines such as Seabourn, Silverseas and Sea Dream are also terrific and generally have smaller groups. But, keep in mind that most on CC are traveling on the so-called mass-market lines where things are quite different. The mass-market lines must make much of their profit by "maximizing on-board revenue" which includes selling overpriced, oft crowded, tours at very large mark-ups. Unfortunately, where these lines used to have excellent port lectures that told folks how to do ports on their own, the port lectures now emphasize tours and, in some cases, do everything possible to discourage passengers from "doing your own thing." Some tours have even taken on some ugly characterististics since the tour companies (and cruise lines) can increase profits by getting kick-backs from shops and restaurants visited on tours. There now exist some "jewelry factories," "carpet factoris," "cameo factories," etc. that generate almost all their business from these tours. We have watched too many tours bypass very interesting places and sites so they have more time to take their clients "shopping" at carefully chosen shops (some even owned by the tour companies). This is part of what turned us-off to most excursions and provided incentive to do things on our own. Now, after more than 40 years of extensive travel experience, it is fun to share and try to help those with the "spirit of adventure" who also enjoy doing what they want, when they want, with who they want. That being said, there are always a percentage of travelers who only feel comfortable on an organized excursion and, fortunately for them, there is no shortage of excursions (both cruise line and private) available on cruises.

 

Hank

 

Hank - Where are you going next? We want to travel with you and Mrs. Hank!

 

Deb

[Hlitner]

Hank - Where are you going next? We want to travel with you and Mrs. Hank!

 

Deb

 

LOL Deb. That is really sweet.

 

Hank

Edited June 15, 2009 by Hlitner

[Teresa19]

we just returned 5 days ago from the Ruby Princess eastern Mediterranean and had initially booked all cruise shore excursions. About a week before we left, at the urging of a friend, we cancelled these and booked our own using driverinrome for Pisa, Florence, Rome and Naples area, greektaxi for Athens and Byzas tours turkey for Istanbul who also will do Ephesus. This was the best decision that we could ever have made. Not only did we go places that the large tour buses could not but our drivers were locals who knew the traffic problems, when to go where first in order to avoid large crowds and also we ate at some of the best local places that we would never have experiences on a cruise shore excursion. These companies know cruise schedules and are totally aware of getting you back in time and it was never an issue. When we were at the airport in Venice returning home, we spoke to a family that was also on our cruise who said that they "didn't enjoy anything about the cruise" because of the shore excursions. They were at Pompeii for over 3 hrs listening to someone go on and on about the ruins. That is fine if you are interested in that - but we were not and spent about an hour going through Pompeii and then went wine tasting with our driver as that was our primary interest after shopping in Sorrento and Positano. Our driver was from Sorrento so he was able to park at his fathers home and avoid the tourist traffic. We were worried at first about doing independent tours but now wouldn't consider doing anything but - take a chance and give it a try - you won't regret it.

[themnms]

love all the tips on this thread!!

[HMSDingy]

This might be off topic but how easy is it to grab a cab at Barcelona Airport.:confused: We're arriving in Barcelona on the morning of August 25th and taking a cab to our hotel. Form all of the stories I've been reading about pickpockets, I figure the quickest route to the cabs the better.

[Hlitner]

Getting a taxi is very easy since they have a long regulated queue right outside the luggage area (just like in the states). Barcelona taxis are very clean and relatively honest and most even take credit cards. They must use the meter, and if you are traveling in the daytime it should be set to #1 (daytime rates). They are also allowed to add a small fee (its less than 1 Euro) for extra luggage (this is also coded right into the meter). Expect to pay around $30 to get to town or the port.

 

Hank

[HMSDingy]

Getting a taxi is very easy since they have a long regulated queue right outside the luggage area (just like in the states). Barcelona taxis are very clean and relatively honest and most even take credit cards. They must use the meter, and if you are traveling in the daytime it should be set to #1 (daytime rates). They are also allowed to add a small fee (its less than 1 Euro) for extra luggage (this is also coded right into the meter). Expect to pay around $30 to get to town or the port.

 

Hank

 

 

THANKS:D (sorry for yelling,,,:o)

Edited June 15, 2009 by HMSDingy

[HMSDingy]

Thanks to you, Hank and all the response on this thread. Looks like we're pretty much set for our Med cruise. We'll be hoofing it where we can and taking the trains and ferries at other ports. We're pretty much steering clear of the ship's excursions partly because of the costs and also because we want to experience the countries visited on our own.

Edited June 15, 2009 by HMSDingy

[lisherm]

Hi Hank

 

I have some follow up questions for you:

 

We tender in Villefranche - how do we get to EZE - do you have the specific info for the bus? I would like to go there first and then back to Nice before heading back to the ship.

 

I have been reading alot about transportation (Train) and am still not sure what is right for us - I am going to ask and if you have the info great?

 

we need to get from FCO airport to Florence (it seems like we have to take train to Rome and then Florence) and i think 2nd class is fine but should we do the high speed, etc?

 

Then we need to get from Florence to Civatecchia also i think by way of Rome? I think also with our luggage we would need a taxi to the port or are there shuttles?

 

Then from Civitecchia to Rome after the cruise?

 

We will be in Rome for 4 1/2 days - should we get a roma pass or something else. We plan to walk as much as possible and take public transport then it is better to see the major sights. i have never been to Rome.

 

I would like to go to Pompei, what do you recommend, the train? any details would be great.

 

What is the best way to see the Vatican?

 

Thanks for all your help,it is much appreciated.

 

Lisa

[Hlitner]

Hi Hank

 

I have some follow up questions for you:

 

We tender in Villefranche - how do we get to EZE - do you have the specific info for the bus? I would like to go there first and then back to Nice before heading back to the ship.

 

I have been reading alot about transportation (Train) and am still not sure what is right for us - I am going to ask and if you have the info great?

 

we need to get from FCO airport to Florence (it seems like we have to take train to Rome and then Florence) and i think 2nd class is fine but should we do the high speed, etc?

 

Then we need to get from Florence to Civatecchia also i think by way of Rome? I think also with our luggage we would need a taxi to the port or are there shuttles?

 

Then from Civitecchia to Rome after the cruise?

 

We will be in Rome for 4 1/2 days - should we get a roma pass or something else. We plan to walk as much as possible and take public transport then it is better to see the major sights. i have never been to Rome.

 

I would like to go to Pompei, what do you recommend, the train? any details would be great.

 

What is the best way to see the Vatican?

 

Thanks for all your help,it is much appreciated.

 

Lisa

 

Lets try and answer these questions (and hopefully some others will jump in). You cannot get directly to Eze from Villeranche on the bus (the bus to Eze runs between Eze and Monte Carlo). A taxi would save lots of time, but the cost might be a deal breaker (I assume it would be at least 35 Euros one-way). You can walk from tender pier to the train station and take the first train (in the direction of Monte Carlo) and get off at the "Eze/Bord sur Mer" train station (only a 10 min train ride). There is a small bus stop along the road in front of this small station where there is a shuttle bus that takes you up to the Eze Village. The schedule is posted at the bus stop and if there is no bus for a long time you can have the cafe across the road call you a local taxi (the fare should be reasonable). When you leave Eze you can take the bus (I think its the 112) from in front of Eze to Nice (check the bus schedule when you arrive at Eze so you know when to leave the village). Another option is to take the shuttle bus back down to the train station and than catch the next train to Nice (this will take longer and cost more than the 112 bus).

 

From FCO I think your best bet is to take the Leonardo Express train into the Rome Termini station and than take one of the high speed trains (such as IC+). You need to make a reservation for the high speed trains that run from Rome to Florence and can either do this in advance on the RailEurope web site or you could just do it from the FCO airport ticket counter (or in Rome). If you do this at the last minute you will probably be able to get on the next train, but there would be a small chance that the train could be sold out..in which case you might have to wait an hour or two for another train.

 

Regarding Pompeii, if your cruise stops at Naples you can easily do it from that port. Simply walk (about 1 1/3 mile) or take the local streetcar (or taxi) from the cruise port to the Naples train station and than take the Circumvesuviania Train (the line that runs between Naples and Sorrento) to the "Pompeii Scavi" station (about a 20 min ride). Those trains run every 30 min and do not require any reservation. If you wanted to go to Pompeii from Rome you would have to take the high speed train from Rome to Naples and than change to the Circumvesuviania Line. Once you get to Pompeii (its across the street from the Pompeii Scavi station) you can join an English speaking tour at the entrance or just go on your own (you can rent an audio tour).

 

From Florence to the port you would take a high speed train back to the main Rome Termini station where you have to change to a regional train (there are a few high speed trains but they are not worth the extra money) that stops at Civitavecchia. From the Civitavecchia station it is a 4 block (flat sidewalks) to the port entrance where there are free shuttles to the ships. It is also possible to get a taxi from the Civ station to your ship, but the taxis are not always available.

 

As to Rome, it would take a book to talk about that city and its options. If you like to do a lot of walking you might want to just walk miles a day and enjoy the city. Otherwise, you can purchase various multi-day transport passes, buy a ticket for the Hop On Hop Off bus, of just go off and walk with ocassional use of a local bus or the metro. I would strongly suggest you buy a decent Rome tour book at your local book store which will tell you all the options. Many swear by the Rick Steve's book and we also have found that the small "Frommer's Day-by-Day" Rome guide (it fits in a purse) to be very good. We also like to do some homework on the internet and print-out anything that looks helpful. Rome is a very large sprawling city, but it's very tourist-friendly with lots of information booths, decent signs, and helpful locals (many speak English). Just make sure you take extra precautions with your valuables as there are too many pickpockets in Rome (and everywhere else in Europe). By the way, our personal favorite spot in Rome is the Piazza Navona. My wife and I once sat at an outdoor cafe at that Piazza for about 6 hours and had lots of entertainment just watching all the tourists. One other hint about Rome (and Italy) is that Monday's are the worst day of the week with many things closed (Sunday is a little better but most stores are closed). So, if you are in Rome on Monday, plan that day carefully to visit places that are actually open.

 

As to the Vatican, its a personal choice. You can just go there, wait in the long line, and than tour the place on your own. Or, you can pre-book a tour offered directly by the Vatican (I believe this is on the Vatican web site) which avoids the line, but does cost somewhat more money (we have never taken this tour).

 

Hank

Edited June 16, 2009 by Hlitner

[SunDapple]

I should probably post this as a separate thread, but I thought the community of independent thinkers could help me in more creative ways. :)

 

Due to certain circumstances, our cruise line switched our port day in La Spezia from a Monday to a Sunday, but the switch means that we will only have 6 hours ( 1pm to 6pm) in the Cinque Terre. While 6 hours may seem like a decent amount of time, considering the fact that it is a tender port, that we must allow for 20 minutes from the port to the train station, waiting for the train to Vernazza (2:06 pm), 20 minute train ride, etc, our actual time in Vernazza dwindles down to about 2.25 hours before we have to start the trek back (train schedule being what it is). Less than ideal, in fact a total bummer. No time really to see anything but one town, and probably no time to walk the Via del Amore.

From what I've read the ferry isn't any better than the train, so the question is this: is there another means of transport between LaSpezia and Vernazza that may get us there faster? We are mainly interested in Vernazza and were thinking we would, after lunch, take the train from Vernazza to Manarola for the Via Del Amore walk to Riomaggore, but this has become negotiable. Are taxi's from the pier to Vernazza an option? Of course, lots of things are options if money is no object, so let's just say money is an object to a certain degree, (less than the ship's tour of $109 pp). :) What say you, of the independent, experienced minds?

[kingart55]

From Civitavecchia to Ostia Antica you have to take the train to Termini or get off at Ostiense and transfer to the subway going to Lido. Get off at Ostia Antica and it is about a 10 minute walk to the entrance. If you go to Termini you take subway line B to Laurentina and change at Piramide for the Lido train

[GSPLover]

I should probably post this as a separate thread, but I thought the community of independent thinkers could help me in more creative ways. :)

 

Due to certain circumstances, our cruise line switched our port day in La Spezia from a Monday to a Sunday, but the switch means that we will only have 6 hours ( 1pm to 6pm) in the Cinque Terre. While 6 hours may seem like a decent amount of time, considering the fact that it is a tender port, that we must allow for 20 minutes from the port to the train station, waiting for the train to Vernazza (2:06 pm), 20 minute train ride, etc, our actual time in Vernazza dwindles down to about 2.25 hours before we have to start the trek back (train schedule being what it is). Less than ideal, in fact a total bummer. No time really to see anything but one town, and probably no time to walk the Via del Amore.

From what I've read the ferry isn't any better than the train, so the question is this: is there another means of transport between LaSpezia and Vernazza that may get us there faster? We are mainly interested in Vernazza and were thinking we would, after lunch, take the train from Vernazza to Manarola for the Via Del Amore walk to Riomaggore, but this has become negotiable. Are taxi's from the pier to Vernazza an option? Of course, lots of things are options if money is no object, so let's just say money is an object to a certain degree, (less than the ship's tour of $109 pp). :) What say you, of the independent, experienced minds?

 

I would have to say that the day switch in your itinerary did not really do you any favors, time wise. A taxi is not a viable option for Vernazza. Traffic to/from there is highly restricted (and difficult too).

 

If we were in your shoes we would (a) have lunch onboard the ship (saves a good 45-60 minutes on land) and (b) be the very first ones off the ship and immediately grab a taxi to the station. You should be able to catch the 13:27 train (Vernazza 13:47). If not, take the 14:00 direct to Monterosso and the 14:20 back to Vernazza.

 

You could also take the 14:00 to Riomaggiore, and switch your direction of travel to Northbound. The schedules on my train site are current. Those in the CT writeup have not been updated as of yet.

[lisherm]

Once again Hank, thank you so much. You have been a huge help steering me in the right direction and saving me much time. I have done a lot of reading believe it or not but your advice is what I am looking for to maximize our time on this exciting vacation. I think I have a good handle on my plans and needs and will put them in place. Most of all we will just enjoy the beauty and interesting sights and people.

[SunDapple]

If we were in your shoes we would (a) have lunch onboard the ship (saves a good 45-60 minutes on land) and (b) be the very first ones off the ship and immediately grab a taxi to the station. You should be able to catch the 13:27 train (Vernazza 13:47). If not, take the 14:00 direct to Monterosso and the 14:20 back to Vernazza.

 

You could also take the 14:00 to Riomaggiore, and switch your direction of travel to Northbound. The schedules on my train site are current. Those in the CT writeup have not been updated as of yet.

 

Thank you GSPLover, I was afraid of that. I am hoping we will be one of the first ones off the ship, but one can never tell, as ship's tour participants will disembark first, and my guess is that most will take ship's tours in order to maximize both what can be seen/done with the small amount of time. Thanks for your help anyway, I never thought of taking the express train and doubling back.

 

Jacquie

[bluebellA4]

Hi Hank. your contributions are fantastic! Especially your comments on Ephesus.

We are doing a 12 day on the Princess Ruby Aug 8. In your opinion what are the best beaches at Mykonos, Olympia, and Corfu?

 

Regards, Kathy