Rare orville99 Posted June 13, 2022 #26 Share Posted June 13, 2022 58 minutes ago, pcur said: Average is $264 month with today's exchange rate. And that would work out to $3,168/year. So not-enough-cruising was off by a whopping $168 (about one day’s tips per month) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare PTC DAWG Posted June 13, 2022 #27 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, rudeney said: They are no underpaid compared to the normal wages for their home country, but they are underpaid in terms of US (or other 1st-world country) wages. One thing to keep in mind when people suggest that the companies should just raise prices and include the tips in the overall price is that it could actually reduce employee income. The reason is that in the USA, that markup in the sales price could mean the company pays more in overhead. This is not just corporate income tax, but other taxes related to paying employees such as the employer's portion of unemployment insurance and other fees. By collecting it as a gratuity that is passed directly to the employee, those cost are bypassed and the employee gets more of it. This…it’s not hard to understand… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time4u2go Posted June 13, 2022 #28 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, rudeney said: One thing to keep in mind when people suggest that the companies should just raise prices and include the tips in the overall price is that it could actually reduce employee income. The reason is that in the USA, that markup in the sales price could mean the company pays more in overhead. This is not just corporate income tax, but other taxes related to paying employees such as the employer's portion of unemployment insurance and other fees. By collecting it as a gratuity that is passed directly to the employee, those cost are bypassed and the employee gets more of it. Is this true for the mostly foreign-flagged cruise lines? Do they pay for unemployment insurance and "other fees"? I'm not saying they don't. I just thought that one of the reasons for being foreign-flagged was to avoid some of these costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare orville99 Posted June 13, 2022 #29 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, JeffT237 said: I think the real question when it comes to a tipping thread is......how many pages will it go? I think the record is 50+😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roybthered Posted June 13, 2022 #30 Share Posted June 13, 2022 If on the cruise you have pre paid your gratuities and paid 18% gratuity on a purchase say for a drink then why would you feel the need to pay even more in tips? I am all for tipping for service when required but fail to see why you should be forever tipping. We always leave extra for our room attendant and MDR servers as we like to interact with them throughout the cruise and they on every cruise we have been on go above and beyond, but I fail to see why I would tip a barperson for a drink I have just purchased with 18% gratuities added. Maybe it is just an American thing where everyone feels the need to tip or be tipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare orville99 Posted June 13, 2022 #31 Share Posted June 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, time4u2go said: Do they pay for unemployment insurance and "other fees"? I believe that because they are contract employees, that just like a U.S. independent contractor (1099), they are responsible for all of that - if their country imposes those types of fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time4u2go Posted June 13, 2022 #32 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, orville99 said: I believe that because they are contract employees, that just like a U.S. independent contractor (1099), they are responsible for all of that - if their country imposes those types of fees. So then the cruise line does not pay those fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare rudeney Posted June 13, 2022 #33 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I guess that's right - If they are contract employees, then the cruise line does not have to pay any special taxes or unemployment insurance premiums. But if gratuities were not collected and accounted for separately, that revenue would be taxable to the cruise. Of course the business expense of contract employees is deductible, but it might not be a dollar-for-dollar offset against the revenue. For business tax purposes, it is always better to handle this as a pass-through reimbursement rather than on the balance sheet as revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcur Posted June 13, 2022 #34 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said: Nope, $264 monthly is in the $3000 annual range I stated Oh, I thought you meant $3,000 a month, since you were talking about monthly income in the previous sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcur Posted June 13, 2022 #35 Share Posted June 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, orville99 said: And that would work out to $3,168/year. So not-enough-cruising was off by a whopping $168 (about one day’s tips per month) I misread this: Crew are GUARANTEED $1100-$1200 per month. In their home country the average income is $3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seville2Cabo Posted June 13, 2022 #36 Share Posted June 13, 2022 52 minutes ago, orville99 said: And that would work out to $3,168/year. So not-enough-cruising was off by a whopping $168 (about one day’s tips per month) Wages in Mexico are about the same and I always wondered why there were so few Mexicans working on the ships. I would think transportation to the ship is easier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcur Posted June 13, 2022 #37 Share Posted June 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, Roybthered said: If on the cruise you have pre paid your gratuities and paid 18% gratuity on a purchase say for a drink then why would you feel the need to pay even more in tips? I am all for tipping for service when required but fail to see why you should be forever tipping. We always leave extra for our room attendant and MDR servers as we like to interact with them throughout the cruise and they on every cruise we have been on go above and beyond, but I fail to see why I would tip a barperson for a drink I have just purchased with 18% gratuities added. Maybe it is just an American thing where everyone feels the need to tip or be tipped. I get my drinks for free, and I like to add a cash tip to all of them. I also feel I get to know the bar staff throughout the cruise, as I always drink in the same lounge every evening. I also like to use my casino winnings for the extra tips: whatever comes from my free play in the first two days of every cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVILady Posted June 13, 2022 #38 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said: I always use the Philippines as an example because there are quite a few Filipino crew members. Crew are GUARANTEED $1100-$1200 per month. In their home country the average income is $3000 I am not opposed to tipping, but I refuse to be manipulated by guilt to do so, especially prior to receiving service. Wow $ 3000 per year is terrible - I see you corrected it. Edited June 13, 2022 by BVILady didn't see posters correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted June 13, 2022 #39 Share Posted June 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, pcur said: I misread this: Crew are GUARANTEED $1100-$1200 per month. In their home country the average income is $3000 I certainly could have been more clear in my post, I can see the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted June 13, 2022 #40 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, BVILady said: Average income of $ 3000 must be somebody in Manila in Financial Services. My Adult Children have family in the Philippines and know better. Nobody would move overseas to go into the Service Industry with average pay of $ 3000 per month. $3000 Annually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcur Posted June 13, 2022 #41 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, not-enough-cruising said: I certainly could have been more clear in my post, I can see the confusion. Not a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare orville99 Posted June 13, 2022 #42 Share Posted June 13, 2022 49 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said: $3000 Annually For those interested, here are the latest global average wage data: https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted June 13, 2022 #43 Share Posted June 13, 2022 15 minutes ago, orville99 said: For those interested, here are the latest global average wage data: https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php Thanks Great chart. Reaffirms my position on the auto gratuity, and the guilt trip people employ about “screwing the behind the scenes people”. The behind the scenes people are matching their home country’s annual salary every quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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