Most controversial cruise opinion??

[tetleytea]

11 hours ago, juju2454 said:

Zip line is a lot of fun,  we did it on St Kitts,  6 lines from top to bottom.   Even the then 6 years old and 8 years old grandsons did it.   🙂 

 

My thing with zip line is, we can do zip line not too far from home.  No need to spend cruise port time doing it.  Some people say the scenery you are in makes a difference, but I don't think it's a big one--when I'm zip lining, I'm in survival mode.  The last thing I am thinking is, "Oh, look at that pretty tree over there."

 

[DrSea]

26 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

 

My thing with zip line is, we can do zip line not too far from home.  No need to spend cruise port time doing it.  Some people say the scenery you are in makes a difference, but I don't think it's a big one--when I'm zip lining, I'm in survival mode.  The last thing I am thinking is, "Oh, look at that pretty tree over there."

 

My big issue with zip lining in foreign countries is that sometimes the wiring doesn't look too secure. So I will only zipline on like Coco Cay or really really reputable places. Even the 3rd party excursions via NCL are kinda iffy

[DrSea]

36 minutes ago, midgetcoach said:

It is kind of misleading. If your playing with 1-2K per week then your buy-in should be around $300 per session. You should have a loss limit and also a win limit (when its time to walk).  You are playing to run your money thru  machines or across the tables for comp and points. Knowing when to move on to a different slot or table is part of it. At the end of the week look at your seven $300 buy-ins and add them back together. You will be up, down or even but never should you lose the whole $2000 bankroll.  As always good money management is one of the keys. 

I see. So the buy in at 300/night x 7 nights = 2100. But you aren't losing all 2100. You may lose 20-30% of that depending on luck or whatever the machine programs the payout is. So you maybe losing like 400-600 of that initial 2100. Is correct?

[tetleytea]

5 minutes ago, DrSea said:

I see. So the buy in at 300/night x 7 nights = 2100. But you aren't losing all 2100. You may lose 20-30% of that depending on luck or whatever the machine programs the payout is. So you maybe losing like 400-600 of that initial 2100. Is correct?

This sure complicates the math.   I would also budget in the At-Sea time playing in the casino, unless that is something you enjoy a lot.

 

 

[CaptainBazz]

54 minutes ago, midgetcoach said:

You should have a loss limit and also a win limit (when its time to walk)

I do...$0 loss limit...$5 walk limit 🤣

[DrSea]

12 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

This sure complicates the math.   I would also budget in the At-Sea time playing in the casino, unless that is something you enjoy a lot.

 

 

what is the at sea time play?

2 minutes ago, CaptainBazz said:

I do...$0 loss limit...$5 walk limit 🤣

sadly, that is where I am. Haha. 

[UKstages]

wow.

 

just wow.

 

i've read all the replies from the past few days and i'm gobsmacked.

 

@DrSeahas done a great job of addressing most of the haven class warfare issues that i feel strongly about, so i don't have to tackle those. i couldn't have done it better, except i would have asked, a number of times,, "i'm sorry, will this be a 45 minute session or did you want to go the full hour?"

 

i would like to address a few things:

 

with regard to haven pricing... yes, a lot of people are in there for "free," including me. but i also share the prevailing thought that few people pay rack rate, except maybe during spring break, easter, christmas and new years and other periods of peak demand. (although i was comped in the haven during spring break this year, so there goes that theory.)  apart from the perennial sales, there are a lot of upgrades, as people  have mentioned.

 

the thing to remember is that a stateroom - anywhere on the ship - is perishable inventory, just like an airplane seat or a theatre ticket. once the ship sails, that potential revenue is gone forever. so it is in NCL's best interest to offer comped cabins and upgrades and deep discounts, unless and until they believe it has cheapened the perceived value of the product.

 

with regard to casino payback percentages... depends. i recently posted about this in another CAS thread here. the prevailing thought is that cruise ship casinos are unregulated, so they can pay anything they want.  that is not entirely true. there are indeed some regulations, the chief one being that the games, machines and equipment have to be operated to the standards of legitimate and regulated gaming jurisdictions like las vegas. so the notion of "that's how they get you, they let you win and then they pull back and take all your money" is preposterous. random means random. odds are odds. and one of the principles of legitimate gaming jurisdictions is that the player has the same chance of getting a particular winning combination on each spin. that doesn't mean that all results are equally likely... they are not. you have a greater chance of getting a low paying winning combination than a jackpot, for instance.

 

as for payback... somebody posited upthread that payback was 40%. it is far higher. for example, las vegas has a minimum payback of 75% and atlantic city has a minimum payback of, if memory serves, 83% or 85%. penny machines tend to return close to the minimum. as you increase denomination, payback generally increases. a dollar machine might pay back 90% or 92% and a hundred dollar machine might pay back 98% or 99%.

 

that doesn't mean you won't lose 100% of your money over the short term... it just means that over millions of spins, the machine will pay back very close to the percentage specified by the manufacturer and requested by the casino. nobody would play in a casino that offered a 40% return. few people would play in a casino that offered 75% return. we don't know what the payback is on any given ship... and bear in mind that the percentage of payback is an average that includes penny play as well as dollar and $25 and $100 denominations. the inclusion of higher denominations - and also video poker -  will always inflate overall payback percentages. video poker is a game of skill and luck and if you play certain games with the correct strategy, they will return 99.54% or greater over time.

 

in any case, your ability to get an offer for a comped or discounted room, is not based on how much you lose. i've had big winning cruises, even though i do lose most of the time. as noted up thread, it's about how much coin-through you have, how much money you risk. the actual loss is usually far lower. there's a complicated formula, ADT (average daily theoretical loss), that takes into account which games you play, how long you play them, the sixe of your bet and what the game's typical "hold" is.

 

it's just math.

 

and casinos were built by people who understand math for people who don't (or who choose to ignore math for entertainment.)

 

there are no trends to follow, there are no winning systems. there is only math. that's why card counters in blackjack can succeed and why video poker players have an advantage and, sometimes, an edge.

 

as for "hot" games and "winning streaks," we make those determinations as human beings after having played. in legitimate random games, there is no way to predict a streak or a trend in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by UKstages

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, midgetcoach said:

As always good money management is one of the keys. 

I find it interesting that "good money management" is used to describe an approach to gambling.

[leithbones]

As always, by page 13, discussion has drifted pretty far astray.

Bringing it back to OP's Controversial "Like/Don't Like what others Don't Like/Like"

 

I LIKE>> Bad weather.  Love watching the effects of the ship's pitch&roll-- people having 'fun' trying to walk a straight line down the hallway.  Not <dangerous> to the point of furniture sliding or dishes falling off shelves.... but uncomfortable for most passengers.

Obviously I have no issue with seasickness,  just an issue being a sick bastard in general.

 

I DON'T LIKE >> Wings at O'Sheehans.  Horrible. Inedible.  In my opinion, if you're posting positive reviews of O'Sheehan wings (and there are many of you), you've never eaten wings prepared properly.

[juju2454]

6 hours ago, DrSea said:

again not my intention. Idk how to spell it out clearer. No temper here. I'm telling you I am not mad, yet you are telling me that I am mad. How are we even having a discussion of how I feel when writing a post. This is ridiculous. I am annoyed with how this isn't getting through. 

 

Feel free to read whatever you want to read into my emotions. This is very odd that you are perseverating on this

Yet you answer.

[juju2454]

5 hours ago, tetleytea said:

 

My thing with zip line is, we can do zip line not too far from home.  No need to spend cruise port time doing it.  Some people say the scenery you are in makes a difference, but I don't think it's a big one--when I'm zip lining, I'm in survival mode.  The last thing I am thinking is, "Oh, look at that pretty tree over there."

 

I did it all while holding my camera and recording it and yes the scenery is beautiful... it is very different, but I enjoy it so no fear

[midgetcoach]

4 hours ago, DrSea said:

I see. So the buy in at 300/night x 7 nights = 2100. But you aren't losing all 2100. You may lose 20-30% of that depending on luck or whatever the machine programs the payout is. So you maybe losing like 400-600 of that initial 2100. Is correct?

Yes,  you have your bank-roll which is your over all amount of gambling money. Your buy-in is the amount you take when going to play a session. If your planing on playing once a day on the cruise it would be seven sessions. On sea days it may be two sessions. Each trip to the casino is a session.

Determine your buy in then how many sessions to play is your bankroll.

4 hours ago, tetleytea said:

This sure complicates the math.   I would also budget in the At-Sea time playing in the casino, unless that is something you enjoy a lot.

The math is easy. Take a bank envelope for every  day (session) you plan to play. Write the days on each Mon,Tues, etc. that you plan to play. Example 7 day cruise, 7 envelopes of $300 each (buy-in).

Total bank roll $2100.  Everything goes in the saf 

[juju2454]

7 minutes ago, midgetcoach said:

Yes,  you have your bank-roll which is your over all amount of gambling money. Your buy-in is the amount you take when going to play a session. If your planing on playing once a day on the cruise it would be seven sessions. On sea days it may be two sessions. Each trip to the casino is a session.

Determine your buy in then how many sessions to play is your bankroll.

The math is easy. Take a bank envelope for every  day (session) you plan to play. Write the days on each Mon,Tues, etc. that you plan to play. Example 7 day cruise, 7 envelopes of $300 each (buy-in).

Total bank roll $2100.  Everything goes in the saf 

this is what we do, we play xx amount of money a day, win lose or draw,  if we win we take that days amount out and play it the next day and they rest goes in the safe,  If we lose the next days amount is played the next day, if we go even we are happy too cause we had fun playing and lost nothing . 🙂

[midgetcoach]

5 hours ago, tetleytea said:

This sure complicates the math.   I would also budget in the At-Sea time playing in the casino, unless that is something you enjoy a lot.

The math is easy. Take a bank envelope for every  day (session) you plan to play. Write the days on each Mon,Tues, etc. that you plan to play. Example 7 day cruise, 7 envelopes of $300 each (buy-in).

Total bank roll $2100.  Everything goes in the safe. Each day use the daily envelope for you buy-in. When the session is over put "all" the money back in the envelope an safe. Winnings or loss everything goes back in the envelope for that session. You never spend any of this money for anything else, its your bank-roll ! The total at the end of the week tells the story. 

See no complicated math. Keep it simple. Remember we are playing for the comps.

[midgetcoach]

5 hours ago, UKstages said:

as for "hot" games and "winning streaks," we make those determinations as human beings after having played. in legitimate random games, there is no way to predict a streak or a trend in advance.

I agree with UK. Your decisions determine your out come of the game your playing. There is no way to predict a up coming streak or trend but realizing it when it is happening makes all the difference. 

[tetleytea]

2 hours ago, midgetcoach said:

The math is easy. Take a bank envelope for every  day (session) you plan to play. Write the days on each Mon,Tues, etc. that you plan to play. Example 7 day cruise, 7 envelopes of $300 each (buy-in).

Total bank roll $2100.  Everything goes in the safe. Each day use the daily envelope for you buy-in. When the session is over put "all" the money back in the envelope an safe. Winnings or loss everything goes back in the envelope for that session. You never spend any of this money for anything else, its your bank-roll ! The total at the end of the week tells the story. 

See no complicated math. Keep it simple. Remember we are playing for the comps.

 

That is not math at all.

 

YOU might be playing for the comps, but before I would wager anything substantial...okay...first, there needs to be no smoke in the casino.  That is a non-starter.  But also, I need to see a means by which you will lose less than the comps are worth.  Also I need to pay myself for my vacation time I spent playing  Clearly, the house thinks they will make money by offering these comps in the first place.  How can I make the house wrong?  You can turn a blind eye to that if you want, but I will not.

 

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, midgetcoach said:

I agree with UK. Your decisions determine your out come of the game your playing. There is no way to predict a up coming streak or trend but realizing it when it is happening makes all the difference. 

You may agree with him but it appears as though you did not understand what he said.

[mearsfansinboise]

On 8/5/2022 at 12:25 PM, scooter6139 said:

Is it just me or is there a lot of negativity here for the Haven?  It's just another spot on the cruise ship.  Yes, it costs more, LOTS more on some cruises but you are obviously getting a lot more.  

It isn't that much higher on our upcoming cruise vs a Club balcony, which is why I upgraded.  Never been, wanted to try it out.  See what the luxury fuss is about.  Might like it, might not.  Will wait and see.  We usually only cruise once a year, so we like to make it special.  

 

 

 

I too am seeing a lot of negativity for the Haven/guests - not just on this thread, but many.  We just sailed in it for the first time in March - and loved it.  For me, "the luxury fuss" was worth it.  Perhaps for others it's not.  And that's ok.  We're all different; no need to poop on someone else's parade.

[pcakes122]

2 hours ago, tetleytea said:

 

That is not math at all.

 

YOU might be playing for the comps, but before I would wager anything substantial...okay...first, there needs to be no smoke in the casino.  That is a non-starter.  But also, I need to see a means by which you will lose less than the comps are worth.  Also I need to pay myself for my vacation time I spent playing  Clearly, the house thinks they will make money by offering these comps in the first place.  How can I make the house wrong?  You can turn a blind eye to that if you want, but I will not.

 

I don't think you really understand how it works if you think you need to pay yourself for the time you spent playing on your vacation LOL.  People who gamble on vacation do it because it's entertainment for them.  Some people like watching shows, some people like scuba diving,  some people like gambling. It's fun for us, and we would do it whether we were getting comps or not.

 

As far as how to be assured that you don't lose more than your comps worth? Just don't. (And if you can't stop yourself, that's a whole other problem and you probably shouldn't be gambling at all.)

 

People who don't gamble always want to to generalize and say that gamblers always lose (overall.) What we're trying to tell you -- FROM EXPERIENCE --  is that it's not always the case.   I can only really speak for myself, so others who have different gambling habits may have a different story. Personally, I don't gamble at all on land (I don't even buy lottery tickets.)  My entire gambling budget for the year is dedicated to cruising.  I know exactly how much $$$ I'm willing to risk and I know exactly the value of my comps (including cruise fares, OBC and other onboard perks.) I'm ahead. 👍🏻 And I turn down tons of free cruise offers (from more lines than just NCL) to stay that way!  (If I went on every free cruise I was offered, I would probably be in a deep hole lol That said, I do see alot of people get pulled in that way.)

 

PS If you want a non-smoking casino, try Celebrity! (Or any of the NCL ships that have separate smoking rooms.)

[tetleytea]

Earlier I was told you play just for comps.  Now I'm told you play for the entertainment and you turn down the comps.  

 

And how many people do you know who would play slots for hours on end with funny money?  If it's that entertaining in itself, let's just put M&M's in the slots.  You get free food on the cruise anyway.  

Edited August 7, 2022 by tetleytea

[2 Fun Guys]

11 hours ago, mearsfansinboise said:

I too am seeing a lot of negativity for the Haven/guests - not just on this thread, but many.  We just sailed in it for the first time in March - and loved it.  For me, "the luxury fuss" was worth it.  Perhaps for others it's not.  And that's ok.  We're all different; no need to poop on someone else's parade.

 

I agree with what you are saying. As the kids say, you do you.

 

I can only speak from experience and reading these threads. Haven guests (not all, probably not

even most) are the only ones who seem to have a superiority complex. I refer again to my earlier example of another CC member literally worrying/fussing over whether or not and for how long she'd have to "mingle" with the "rest of the passengers." (Call me "steerage" to my face and neither of us will be allowed on the ship. I joke...)

 

Maybe we need to consider the first sentence of your response. Clearly, it is a pervasive and recurring theme. That means is a problem that cruisers see regularly, not just a one-off reaction to some bad manners. Your last sentence couldn't be truer. But it works both ways - why should a Haven guest poop on my parade?

[wil e coyote]

I don't actually think this is true of most Haven guests - but is seems to fit the discussion...🤣

[graphicguy]

My last cruise walking back to the ship and Haven from an excursion…..

[KeithJenner]

11 hours ago, mearsfansinboise said:

 

I too am seeing a lot of negativity for the Haven/guests - not just on this thread, but many.  We just sailed in it for the first time in March - and loved it.  For me, "the luxury fuss" was worth it.  Perhaps for others it's not.  And that's ok.  We're all different; no need to poop on someone else's parade.

I have no negativity towards the Haven at all. It obviously works well for many people who see it as value for money. That's great.

 

I also haven't experienced things like the "steerage" comments.

 

The slight annoyance that I have about the Haven, which is quite prevalent on these forums is the attitude that suggests that it is obviously the best way to travel. The "if you try it then you will never want to go bank" attitude. That may be how it worked for that person, but that doesn't mean that a stranger on the internet will feel the same. One thing that this thread is shows is that there are plenty of us that are quite happy with the standard cruise experience, and I find that the suggestion that this is only because we just haven't yet had the privilege of seeing the clearly superior alternative is borderline insulting.

 

I have tried it, and going back was very easy, and for me, preferable.

[CaptainBazz]

16 hours ago, leithbones said:

I DON'T LIKE >> Wings at O'Sheehans.  Horrible. Inedible.  In my opinion, if you're posting positive reviews of O'Sheehan wings (and there are many of you), you've never eaten wings prepared properly.

So many people like these wings...but you don't...so you are right??...🤔🤔